Word of Faith - a Look at what the Bible says!

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notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
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It wasn't that long ago that a poster was in another forum and he was really disillusioned when he got sick and his all out commitment to this type of doctrine was not successful in healing him. He left his job and became part of the ministry yet he was still unhealed and completely adrift because he was focused not on Christ but heresy that he would be healed if only he believed.

I always cringe when folks come in here and boast how they haven't been sick in years and how because of their faith they cannot get sick. I just see impending judgment.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

nowyouseem033

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2014
535
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So if it's not in the atonement it is in the instructions He gave to His disciples to do BC the kingdom of heaven was at hand, near(whichever is preferred)... Do you not think since He was their teacher teaching them to catch men that they would have continued in the healing part of it? You see throughout scripture, folks being healed and raised... Just a question.. nothing personal

Do you think that now it has no place even tho we are still in the work of fishing?
Correct, it is in the instructions given to the apostles. But understanding why he gave them the power and gift to heal is vitally important. Yes, obviously it is to heal people is a purpose but not the main purpose. The main purpose why the apostles were given the gift of healing amongst other gifts was to authenticate the gospel message. Healing worked as a confirmation that those men were sent from God and are of God. But your quite right in saying that 'physical healing is not in the atonement'. :) Nowadays we have the written words of God and that is Gods authentic confirmation to the gospel. God can certainly heal still, but if it doesnt bring someone to the gospel then it is in vain.
 
Jun 1, 2016
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I also have a question about guaranteed healing. How do we then look at the children who are born with terrible diseases and end up passing away when they and thier parents are praying in faith and declaring Healing according to wof doctrine? I DO believe God has the ability to heal anything, do anything, but His ways are not always the ways that seem good to us here and now. I know people who believed as much as anyone in the wof for thier physical healing, and did not receive it. which reminds me of the hall of faith in Hebrews.

hebrews 11:13 "All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth."

for istance abraham didnt see Himself become the Father of many nations here on earth before He died, He lived by Faith in that promise from God, and that promise came long after. to say that physical healing is guaranteed, is in a way to say that those who believe forthat healing who dont recieve it, dont have faith. some of the most faith filled people there are, are those who do not recieve Phyusical healing here and now. Healings of Jesus were for the purpose of glorifying God, so that people would believe Jesus was the Messiah. same with the apostles Healing folks, so that those who saw these miracles will believe and Giove God true Glory and turn to Him and treat God, as God through belief.

we are promised perfect Health in our true Home that which is not of this world, a better place, a country of OUR own. God does heal people even now, some He does not. and some if they had perfect Health may not ever turn to God in the first place. sometines the worst circumstances we can imagine are what reveals our need for God. I think we have to accept Gods will, and there are purposes for those who die in faith and arent healed. sometimes the people they touch end up turning to God , seeing the faith of the one who believes even though they have a terrible disease and end up passing away from it. Gods will many times reaches through others circumstances to turn others hearts to Him and suffering in the Body is a part of the Kingdom that some face.

if a person doesnt receive thier Healing now, they will as will all have perfect Health when we are Home but if they dont receive it now in this life, its not to say they didnt have faith or believe that God is able to heal them.
 
H

HisHolly

Guest
I understand all that. Does He still not confirm? Some believe He doesn't, I believe and have seen otherwise. I can't and won't try to answer why something's go undone, I'm not stepping on toes and causing offense.. I haven't sought personally to have an answer for it.
Correct, it is in the instructions given to the apostles. But understanding why he gave them the power and gift to heal is vitally important. Yes, obviously it is to heal people is a purpose but not the main purpose. The main purpose why the apostles were given the gift of healing amongst other gifts was to authenticate the gospel message. Healing worked as a confirmation that those men were sent from God and are of God. But your quite right in saying that 'physical healing is not in the atonement'. :) Nowadays we have the written words of God and that is Gods authentic confirmation to the gospel. God can certainly heal still, but if it doesnt bring someone to the gospel then it is in vain.
 

wanderer6059

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2013
1,282
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No wanderer, I was never a follower of wof in the first place which means I was never hurt by them. When I first became a Christian over 50 years ago the very next day I was approached by Mormon Missionaries. Of course I was clueless about them but when they talked to me within my spirit I immediately knew something was wrong with what they were saying, it didn't sit right with me.

Anyway, the Lord eventually led me into the field of "apologetics" and I learned all about the Mormons, Jw's and every other cult and had dealings with people in the occult. The Lord gave me the gift of discernment and after studying the Bible (which is the truth) I can spot the counterfeit including the abberant theology of wof. I had many friends that were followers of hagin, copeland and I can give you a list of the dozens and dozens of others that teach this stuff.

And you got me wrong? I "DONT'T" judge the people per-say, I judge what they teach and then after a while, it's prertty easy to come to the conclusion that some of them are truly lost based on their doctrinal fruit according to Matthew 7:15-23, I suggest you read it for yourself. And as a side note my main "mentor" was the late Dr.Walter Martin. You would be interested to know that Dr. Martin spoke out heavily against wof and when he died TBN and others claimed that they were responsible for his death because he dared to speak out agains wof. In fact, I have experienced wof'ers praying and rebuking me for having Satan in my heart. In other words, they were trying to "deliever" me from his clutches. And as you can see, I'm still here!

Finally, I'm going to start another thread on what it means to "Prove all things" by giving you examples of statements from wof teachers and preachers. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
nope but you follow every word of your mentor though...

I have gone to scripture each time you have brought something up, proved you wrong and you try and move on to something else, its funny. but go a head quote a man who valued the accolades of man, who was a lair, amd lived more than a WoF did on feeling. :D

[FONT=&quot]Walter Martin sets the standard that must be his foundation, "I also feel quite deeply that the facts contained in this book must be sound and reliable if my conclusions are to be considered valid and useful to the interested Christian. I have made every effort to accomplish this goal of accuracy." (Martin 1978, 12)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mr. Martin likes to makes statements that have no basis in fact and instead of reasonable scholarship he seems to be just passing on rumors.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]While he thought it would serve his purposes, Walter Martin claimed that he was a descendant of Brigham Young. He was shown complete genealogies that proved that he was not a descendant of Brigham Young. Then he changed and made the assertion that he was only a relative of Brigham Young. A claim that is also easily provable to be false. We can only imagine that Walter Martin wanted to make such a claim so that it would appear that he came out from Mormonism.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]On a taped lecture, Walter Martin falsely stated that Wayne Cowdrey was a descendant of Oliver Cowdery and that he was a descendant of Brigham Young. "Wayne Cowdrey and I are very close because he is a descendant of Oliver Cowdery, who allegedly wrote down the Book of Mormon that Joseph dictated. He is now a reborn Christian. I am a descendant of Brigham Young--successor to Joseph Smith, ruler of the Latter-day Saints Church--a born again Christian. Would anybody ever think that Cowdery the scribe and Young the successor would stand together on the platform and expose the whole thing as fraudulent? Here we are, the irony of God is remarkable!" The only thing that is remarkable is how easily Walter could say things he knew were not true.

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Walter Martin has made several claims to authority to the ministry. However, the only ordination he had, when he first began his ministry, was revoked two years later. Since then, at various time over the next thirty-three years, he has falsely claimed to be an ordained Baptist minister, and ordained minister of the American Baptist Convention, and he presently claims to be an ordained minister of the Southern Baptist Convention. Our research indicates that he is none of the above.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The fact that he was ordained in 1951 has been confirmed by a letter from his ordination pastor. However that same letter also states that his ordination was revoked.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"A few days before the ordination we discovered that Walter Martin's wife had obtained a divorce in Reno, Nevada. This fact was presented to the Ordination Council. We proceeded with the ordination on July 16, 1951 but with the understanding with Walter that if he ever re-married, we would have to revoke his ordination."
"It was in 1953 that we learned that Walter was re-married. We called the Ordination Council and informed them of our church's decision to revoke Walter's ordination, which our church did."

hes a good guy to trust, hey how about this look back at my post and tell me how i use scripture out of context...[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]
 

wanderer6059

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2013
1,282
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WoF teachings and doctrines are heresy!!! Why? Because At the heart of the Word of Faith movement is the belief in the "force of faith." It is believed words can be used to manipulate the faith-force, and thus actually create what they believe Scripture promises (health and wealth). Laws supposedly governing the faith-force are said to operate independently of God's sovereign will and that God Himself is subject to these laws. This is nothing short of idolatry, turning our faith—and by extension ourselves—into god.


prove that with the teachings, btw you still have yet to prove your belief on cessation, look whos believing something un-scriptural now...
 

wanderer6059

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2013
1,282
57
48
When I hear the phrase "eat the meat & spit out the bones" I get a picture of two things:

  • People sitting at a table eating bluegill trying to get full without choking.
  • Children choking on fish bones.

That's what happens with WOF..... most starve to death, while others are choking on reality.
Prove all things - Subject everything submitted to you to be believed to the proper test. The word here used (δοκιμάζετε dokimazete), is one that is properly applicable to metals, referring to the art of the assayer, by which the true nature and value of the metal is tested; see notes, 1 Corinthians 3:13. This trial was usually made by fire. The meaning here is, that they were carefully to examine everything proposed for their belief. They were not to receive it on trust; to take it on assertion; to believe it because it was urged with vehemence, zeal, or plausibility. In the various opinions and doctrines which were submitted to them for adoption, they were to apply the appropriate tests from reason and the word of God, and what they found to be true they were to embrace; what was false they were to reject. Christianity does not require people to disregard their reason, or to be credulous. It does not expect them to believe anything because others say it is so. It does not make it a duty to receive as undoubted truth all that synods and councils have decreed; or all that is advanced by the ministers of religion. It is, more than any other form of religion, the friend of free inquiry, and would lead people everywhere to understand the reason of the opinions which they entertain; compare Acts 17:11-12; 1 Peter 3:15.

20Do not treat prophecies with contempt, 21but test all things. Hold fast to what is good. 22Abstain from every form of evil.…

Text Analysis
[TABLE="class: cms_table, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="class: cms_table_maintext, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_top, width: 17%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Strong's[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_top, width: 20%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Transliteration[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Greek[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]English[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Morphology[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_strongsnt"]3956 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_translit"]panta[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_greek2"]πάντα[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_eng"]all things[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_pos"]Adj-ANP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_strongsnt"]1161 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_translit"]de[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_greek2"]δὲ[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_eng"]however[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_strongsnt"]1381 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_translit"]dokimazete[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_greek2"]δοκιμάζετε,[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_eng"]test.[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_pos"]V-PMA-2P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_translit"]to[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_greek2"]τὸ[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_eng"]to the[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_pos"]Art-ANS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_strongsnt"]2570 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_translit"]kalon[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_greek2"]καλὸν[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_eng"]good[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_pos"]Adj-ANS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_strongsnt"]2722 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_translit"]katechete[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_greek2"]κατέχετε·[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_eng"]hold fast.[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_pos"]V-PMA-2P[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


dokimazo: I put to the test, prove, examine
Original Word: δοκιμάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: dokimazo
Phonetic Spelling: (dok-im-ad'-zo)
Short Definition: I put to the test, prove, examine
Definition: I put to the test, prove, examine; I distinguish by testing, approve after testing; I am fit.HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 1381 dokimázō (from 1384 /dókimos, "approved") – properly, to try (test) to show something is acceptable (real, approved); put to the test to reveal what is good (genuine). See 1384 (dokimos).
1381 /dokimázō ("to approve by testing") is done to demonstrate what is good, i.e. passes the necessary test. 1381 (dokimázō) does not focus on disproving something (i.e. to show it is bad).


Strong's Concordance
katechó: to hold fast, hold back
Original Word: κατέχω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: katechó
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-ekh'-o)
Short Definition: I hold fast, bind, restrain
Definition: (a) I hold fast, bind, arrest, (b) I take possession of, lay hold of, (c) I hold back, detain, restrain, (d) I hold a ship, keep its head.


Strong's Concordance
kalos: beautiful, good
Original Word: καλός, ή, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: kalos
Phonetic Spelling: (kal-os')
Short Definition: beautiful, good, worthy
Definition: beautiful, as an outward sign of the inward good, noble, honorable character; good, worthy, honorable, noble, and seen to be so.
 
Oct 31, 2016
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refute the OP using the Bible, that healing is in the atonement
I've not spent any money on doctors for over 20 years standing on God's promises for health... you came too late to convince me that Jesus did not provide for my health. Even under the OT God had provisions for His people to be well, so you are actually opposing the will of the Lord and either don't know it or don't care to accept God's Word (contradicting the Lord - 2 Peter 2:1) simply for what it says...

Romans 8:11
But IF the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you (allowed to live in us), He that raised up Jesus Christ from the dead shall also quicken (energize, make alive) your mortal body by His Spirit that lives in you. (see 2 Corinthians 3:17 – where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty, freedom!)

1 Peter 2:24
Jesus carried our sins in his own body on the cross, so that we, being dead to sin, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes you were healed.

Matthew 8:17

That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

Isaiah 53:4, 5
Jesus has carried our grief (pain, anxiety, calamity, disease, sickness), and carried our sorrows (anguish, affliction, feelings of pain, sadness and sorrow): yet we did esteem Him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted....but He was wounded (to wound, to break, be slain or killed) for our transgressions, He was bruised (crush, destroy, oppress, to collapse) for our iniquities: the punishment (violence, rebuke) of our peace was upon Him; and with His stripes we are healed. (He took our wounds, so we could take his wholeness & health in every area of life)

Proverbs 4:20-23
Attend to My words; incline your ear unto My sayings....let them not depart from your eyes; keep them in the midst of your heart....for they are life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh....keep your heart with all diligence; for out of it flow the forces of life.

James 5:15
The prayer of faith shall save the sick (from being sick!)

Exodus 23:24-26

You shall not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do their works: but you shall utterly overthrow them, and destroy their images.
And you shall serve Adonai your God, and He shall bless your food and drink; and I will take sickness away from the midst of you.
There shall nothing cast their young, nor be barren, in thy land: and you will live out the full span of your lives.

This has nothing to do with so-called "WOF", this comes down to do you accept what God says in His Word... or, are you a member of Cherry-Pickers-R-Us who pick and choose what they believe from scripture like a fat boy at a buffet table who rejects the healthy options for greasy grace cusine.


Bottom line... we will run a little eternal experiment... you reject God's Word concerning healing and go roll the dice with Marcus Welby MD blowing a bunch of money that could be supporting the Gospel, and I'll allow Dr Jesus to administer His Word to me as divine medicine keeping me well... and we'll let the Lord judge and let us know in the end who brought more glory and honor to Him by simply accepting His Word.
 
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LaurenTM

Guest
Ship wrecked???

You mean they took some preachers word for something rather than learning God's promises for themselves and they gave up when satan attacked them to choke the Word that Jesus spoke of in Mark 4:13-20 ?

Each person is ultimately responsible for their own walk with the Lord which is based on His Word.
actually, teachers have a much bigger responsibility

which is why James said not many should become teachers

Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness.
James 3:1


instead, some rush and plunge into shallow water, break their neck, and can never walk right again

so ultimately, teachers have a tremendous responsibility...even being a pastor does not mean you are a teacher, although it is always a blessing when a pastor can actually teach

God chooses carefully...a true teacher's desire, is to bring people to where they stand on their own and even surpass their teacher

false teachers want to hold on to their students and forever try to appear to have something the student has not yet attained

a teacher does not trod over those that disagree...but explains patiently and over and over if they have to

of course this thread was demolished from the get go with people running all over the op and wanderer taking it over after his thread was closed

God does not judge from vanity or out of thin air...many many suffer for the sins of others...suffer for what was done TO them rather then what they did

you lack patience and have a rather poor understanding of the subject matter at hand...which should have been defending or exposing the lies of WOF FROM scripture...not the rhetoric and flaming people you display
 
Oct 31, 2016
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you lack patience and have a rather poor understanding of the subject matter at hand...which should have been defending or exposing the lies of WOF
Everyone has a right to their own erroneous opinion...

You do understand that Paul and Jesus both taught "word of faith" which is God's Word is here and we can allow it to live in us and it's the Lord's faith in us that overcomes the world...right?

Obvious where you guys get all bent out of shape is from TV preachers who use God's Word for gain and have taken things to extremes causing them to end up in the ditch on one side... and their critics are in the ditch on the other side as they reject God's promises by cherry picking what scriptures they believe while rejecting others.

Critics of so called "WOF" are just as bad as TV preachers using the gospel to get rich and be famous.
 
L

LaurenTM

Guest
So if it's not in the atonement it is in the instructions He gave to His disciples to do BC the kingdom of heaven was at hand, near(whichever is preferred)... Do you not think since He was their teacher teaching them to catch men that they would have continued in the healing part of it? You see throughout scripture, folks being healed and raised... Just a question.. nothing personal

Do you think that now it has no place even tho we are still in the work of fishing?


why would you ask that question?

we are told to ask for prayer if we are sick, so obviously God still wants to heal

WOF loves to use Isaiah 53 but they do not understand it or they would not do so

there is no question God desires to heal...none at all

personally, one reason I think we do not see much of it, is the insanity that might follow if people did start getting healed right and left

Hinn has or maybe used to have, thousands upon thousands lining up for healing outside any auditorium he would be speaking in...there actually is no proof of healings...many who thought they were healed simply felt so in the heat of the moment and returned to their need of healing later on

some actually have been healed...but NOT because of Hinn

what I am saying is documented...

are you aware that Hinn, that great WOF healer, has CURSED people who oppose him and reveal the charlatan that he is?

is cursing others provided for in the atonement? I'm not trying to be sarcastic here...people do not want to ask the real questions because it means they will have to change foundations...that is a process...actually, life as a Christian is a process but many want the Reader's Digest version

there are no shortcuts...God is not looking for people He can do miracles through

He is looking for people through whom others can see His Son...and sometimes healing may be a part of that...but more often it simply is a sideshow...a cheap carnival that accepts without discernment and creates shallow roots that do not last

I think God knows what He is doing...
 
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LaurenTM

Guest
Everyone has a right to their own erroneous opinion...

You do understand that Paul and Jesus both taught "word of faith" which is God's Word is here and we can allow it to live in us and it's the Lord's faith in us that overcomes the world...right?

Obvious where you guys get all bent out of shape is from TV preachers who use God's Word for gain and have taken things to extremes causing them to end up in the ditch on one side... and their critics are in the ditch on the other side as they reject God's promises by cherry picking what scriptures they believe while rejecting others.

Critics of so called "WOF" are just as bad as TV preachers using the gospel to get rich and be famous.



I am aware that WOF says Jesus taught that lie, but He did not

again, you attempt to imply that I know nothing compared to you but that is the approach you take with everyone

you are not aware of the deception you are in...and you will have to admit it before you get out of it
 

wanderer6059

Senior Member
Oct 27, 2013
1,282
57
48
Jesus Heals at Peter's House
14When Jesus arrived at Peter’s house, He saw Peter’s mother-in-law sick in bed with a fever. 15He touched her hand, and the fever lefther, and she got up and began to serve them. 16When evening came, many who were demon-possessed were brought to Jesus, and He drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick.…

Ok, first looking at Matt 8:17 to see the fulfillment of Isa 53 we can all agree on that I hope but what I want to point out was the fact that it was fulfilled by a Physical healing, not spiritual. So I want to post a few other commentaries pointing to the face that the verse in context is referring to physical healing.
Matthew 8:17. rophetic citation, apposite, felicitous; setting Christ’s healing ministry in a true light; giving prominence not to the thaumaturgic but to the sympathetic aspect; from the Hebrew original, the Sept[53] making the text (Isaiah 53:4) refer to sin. The Hebrew refers to sicknesses and pains. It is useless to discuss the precise meaning of ἔλαβεν and ἐβάστασεν: took and bore, or took and bore away; subjective or objective? The evangelist would note, not merely that Jesus actually did remove diseases, but that He was minded to do so: such was His bent.
Matthew 8:17. Ὅπως πληρωθῇ, that it might be fulfilled) It behoved that the Physician of the soul should also remove bodily complaints from those who came in His way.[376] In this manner also, therefore, was fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah. Body and soul together form one man: the corrupting principle of both soul and body is one [namely sin]; one and the same aid was given to both by this great Physician, as the case required.—ἔλαβε, took) i.e. removed from us.

[376] And of whom the extraordinary numbers are from time to time noticed, Matthew 4:23; Matthew 9:35-36 (Luke 4:21), Matthew 12:15, Matthew 15:30, Matthew 21:14.
Now onto the quoted verse in 1 peter
1 Peter 2:24King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
I want to focus on a few words here, and there meaning in Greek.
iaomai: to heal
Original Word: ἰάομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: iaomai
Phonetic Spelling: (ee-ah'-om-ahee)
Short Definition: I heal
Definition: I heal, generally of the physical, sometimes of spiritual, disease.
dikaiosuné: righteousness, justice
Original Word: δικαιοσύνη, ης, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: dikaiosuné
Phonetic Spelling: (dik-ah-yos-oo'-nay)
Short Definition: justice, justness, righteousness
Definition: (usually if not always in a Jewish atmosphere), justice, justness, righteousness, righteousness of which God is the source or author, but practically: a divine righteousness.
HELPS Word-studies
1343 dikaiosýnē (from 1349 /díkē, "a judicial verdict") – properly, judicial approval (the verdict of approval); in the NT, the approval of God ("divine approval").
1343 /dikaiosýnē ("divine approval") is the regular NT term used for righteousness ("God's judicial approval"). 1343 /dikaiosýnē ("the approval of God") refers to what is deemed right by the Lord(after His examination), i.e. what is approved in His eyes.
Ok so the context or exegesis is that along with the promise of salvation, that there were physical real world benefits that were providing not just a spiritual revival to him, but a physical.
“the corrupting principle of both soul and body is one [namely sin]; one and the same aid was given to both by this great Physician, as the case required.—ἔλαβε, took) i.e. removed from us.”
The fact that we are three part being, a soul renewed by God, and a flesh that can be healed by God. “Body and soul together form one man” the Lord redeemed us from our sins and sicknesses at the same time. Accordingly, if we believe that Christ redeemed us from our sins, we should believe that He redeemed us from our sicknesses also. If we cannot believe in both kinds of redemption, we must not believe in any kind of redemption, for Jesus carried away both! we are already healed. If we are sick it is because of a lack of the right kind of knowledge, which is a lack of a belief in an area because we know it not, or a outright rejection of the belief, constituting a lack of Faith.

Let me ask this question, if a prophecy is made of a redemptive work that includes spiritual and physical healing.
Word Origin
a prim. root
Definition
to heal
NASB Word Usage
become fresh (3), completely healed (1), heal (24), healed (22), healer (1), healing (2), heals (3), physician (1), physicians (4), purified (2), reappeared (1), repaired (2), take care
and is fulfilled by a physical healing,
15He touched her hand, and the fever lefther, and she got up and began to serve them.
And was mentioned in context again with both spiritual, and physical healing.
iaomai: to heal
Definition: I heal, generally of the physical, sometimes of spiritual, disease.
But here is more on how we are to we are healed both physically and spiritually.
The Prayer of Faith
14Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15Andthe prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick. The Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. 16Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power to prevail.…
In context it is speaking of both the physical and spiritual needs being met by Christ in the context of the previously mentioned verses.
15. and the prayer of faith shall save the sick] The context leaves no doubt that the primary thought is, as in our Lord’s words to men and women whom He healed, “Thy faith hath saved thee”—“thy faith hath made thee whole” (Matthew 9:22; Mark 5:34; Mark 10:52; Luke 7:50; Luke 8:48; Luke 17:19; Luke 18:42), that the sick man should in such a case “recover his bodily health.” The “prayer of faith” was indeed not limited to that recovery in its scope, but the answer to that prayer in its higher aims, is given separately afterwards in the promise of forgiveness.

and the Lord shall raise him up] Here, as in James 5:14, we have to think of St James as recognising not merely the power of God generally, but specifically that of the Lord Jesus, still working through His servants, as He worked personally on earth. So Peter said to Æneas, “Jesus Christ maketh thee whole” (Acts 9:34).
It is clear in the word that God, is still active in healing.
Acts 10:38King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
The same Holy Ghost that was in Christ is active in us and in the world
The primary way a believer receives God's healing power is through faith in God's Word. Believers shouldn't require a sign or wonder to believe in God's healing power. Jesus got upset when people required signs and wonders from him to believe in his healing power [John 4:48, Luke 1:18-20]. He praised people who just received his healing power by faith [Matthew 8:10 and Luke 7:9].
If we would simple take his word and believe it true.
 
Oct 31, 2016
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I am aware that WOF says Jesus taught that lie, but He did not
You wouldn't call Jesus a liar... would you???? Lots of folks do, just because they hate TV preachers are many of these folks are actually in un-forgiveness as they allow hate to consume them over doctrine which makes them just as wrong as the ones they are attacking for being wrong.

You just proved you are either ignorant of what Jesus taught, or much worse... you choose to not believe what He taught.

Mark 11:23,24
For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.


Jesus specifically promises that whoever says unto this mountain (things too big for us to do anything about) and doubts not in their heart, they shall have what they say... and then Jesus Himself personally acts on what He just promised by saying "I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them"

You don't think Jesus would lie... do you? Lots of folks claim Mark 11:23,24 is not true and so they are calling Jesus a liar... that will not end well for them.

Now, where TV preachers do err is they don't teach other passages that have bearing on what Jesus taught...

James 4:3
Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

1 John 5:14
And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us

As you can see we need to not be asking just to please the flesh and we must ask according to His will... which is His promises / correction in His Word.

So, TV preachers and their critics are both in the ditch... lots of error to go around.
 
Jan 15, 2011
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All of this points to the error of what is being taught in the WoF movement.
Asking the Lord for something in the flesh profits nothing.
If we have the mind of Christ and are listening to His voice, we know what is according to His will. Thus when we ask for anything according to His will, we shall receive it.

This is very different than what is being taught in the WoF movement... even in the Charismatic movement to a degree as well. This is just one of the many reasons why many Christians stand in opposition to the WoF movement.


You wouldn't call Jesus a liar... would you???? Lots of folks do, just because they hate TV preachers are many of these folks are actually in un-forgiveness as they allow hate to consume them over doctrine which makes them just as wrong as the ones they are attacking for being wrong.

You just proved you are either ignorant of what Jesus taught, or much worse... you choose to not believe what He taught.

Mark 11:23,24
For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.


Jesus specifically promises that whoever says unto this mountain (things too big for us to do anything about) and doubts not in their heart, they shall have what they say... and then Jesus Himself personally acts on what He just promised by saying "I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them"

You don't think Jesus would lie... do you? Lots of folks claim Mark 11:23,24 is not true and so they are calling Jesus a liar... that will not end well for them.

Now, where TV preachers do err is they don't teach other passages that have bearing on what Jesus taught...

James 4:3
Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

1 John 5:14
And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us

As you can see we need to not be asking just to please the flesh and we must ask according to His will... which is His promises / correction in His Word.

So, TV preachers and their critics are both in the ditch... lots of error to go around.
 
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Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
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Joy is a fruit of the Spirit. God loves to answer prayers. He's a good Father whom every good gift comes.

John 16:24 Until now you have asked nothing in my name. Ask, and you will receive, that your joy may be full.

Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

Matt 7:11 If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

Faith believes God actually is good and wants to give good things to us. Out of who He is. It gives Him joy to bless us. And it gives us joy too.
 
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LaurenTM

Guest

Whassup


You wouldn't call Jesus a liar... would you???? Lots of folks do, just because they hate TV preachers are many of these folks are actually in un-forgiveness as they allow hate to consume them over doctrine which makes them just as wrong as the ones they are attacking for being wrong.

You just proved you are either ignorant of what Jesus taught, or much worse... you choose to not believe what He taught.
I wasn't posting to Jesus...the post was directed to you, so Jesus and I are good

this is not your special moment here...just more nonsense

Mark 11:23,24
For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.


Jesus specifically promises that whoever says unto this mountain (things too big for us to do anything about) and doubts not in their heart, they shall have what they say... and then Jesus Himself personally acts on what He just promised by saying "I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them"


well it's a good thing that we don't get everything we pray for!

God is not your personal Santa Claus..and please tell us how many mountains are now in the sea at your command

perhaps you have doubt if you cannot cause a mountain to pick up its skirts and twaddle over to the sea?

you WOF'ers quote those verses but they are NOT real in your own lives or we would not be having this conversaiton

You don't think Jesus would lie... do you? Lots of folks claim Mark 11:23,24 is not true and so they are calling Jesus a liar... that will not end well for them.



again, deflect...don't deal with the real questions...defect and accuse...please show us the mountains and the empty hospitals

As you can see we need to not be asking just to please the flesh and we must ask according to His will... which is His promises / correction in His Word.


you are contradicting yourself here

above, you state you can get whatever you desire, referring to Mark

now, you actually state some truth and say what we ask for, must be according to the will of God

you are a typical WOF enthusiast who will say whatever it takes to try and make themself sound all good and godly while casting aspertions on others by asking inane and telling questions like 'are you calling Jesus a liar'

classic WOF




 
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CharlieGrown

Guest


well it's a good thing that we don't get everything we pray for!
I guarantee total irreversible chaos just from my prayers alone. Some of my most thankful prayers are the ones He said "NO!" to. ;)
 
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LaurenTM

Guest
Joy is a fruit of the Spirit. God loves to answer prayers. He's a good Father whom every good gift comes.

John 16:24 Until now you have asked nothing in my name. Ask, and you will receive, that your joy may be full.

Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

Matt 7:11 If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

Faith believes God actually is good and wants to give good things to us. Out of who He is. It gives Him joy to bless us. And it gives us joy too.
nice Cee, but not any sort of contradiction to the error of WOF

so it sounds like if someone points out the error of WOF they may have no faith?

well then no one is saved unless they preach WOF, right? cause that is the conclusion of what you seem to be saying

no faith = no salvation, right? because it is all about faith

what WOF does, is BLAME and SHAME

I guess when you pray and it does not go according to what you ask for, you have no faith

quite a quandry

so a Christian parent that is at the bedside of a child they love, dying of cancer, who has prayed their heart out and 'exercised' all their faith and yet their child dies, is to blame?

yes?...but never mind...just tell them God loves to answer prayer and they just need some joy
 
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LaurenTM

Guest
I guarantee total irreversible chaos just from my prayers alone. Some of my most thankful prayers are the ones He said "NO!" to. ;)



well look at the disciples...they wanted fire to rain down on unbelievers

do you suppose we would all be burned to a crisp for a WOF'er saying we called Jesus a liar?

I mean this stuff even SOUNDS stupid!