How Not to be Labeled as a Player at Your Church--Part 1.

[seoulsearch]

Here's how...

Let's say 'Joe' is a newcomer to bible study and there are 6 women... Jane, Joan, Jessie, Jenny, Martha and Mary... and the women all get along and talk with each other during and after bible study...

Now one day Joe asks Mary out and Mary rejects him... Mary doesn't tell anyone about it because Mary is cool like that...

BUT then a month later Joe asks Martha out and she rejects him as well... but she doesn't tell anyone either...

THEN... another month later, Joe asks Jenny out and Jenny rejects him...

Then one day, as the women are chatting, one of them mentions Joe and how he doesn't seem to be attached... and then Mary pipes up and says "Yea, I hope he finds someone. He actually asked me out a couple months ago but I said no." ... Then Martha and Jenny both say, "He asked me out too." And the three look at each other and laugh...

Then they start talking about Joe and wondering who he's going to ask next.... And the other girls are like, "I don't want to be his fourth choice, eww!!"

And from then on.... Joe senses that the girls seem to be less interested in talking to him.....

YES.

This is exactly the kind of situation that some of the guys I knew were having, and it happens more often than people think.

I was part of one Young Adult Group (I was actually young at some point--shocking, I know. Now behave, Miss Tinuviel! ) and one of the guys was dating a girl who was best friends with another girl in the group that he used to date. Which is pretty much how it went at that small church.

Everyone was either best friends, cousins, or was employed with or by everyone else in the congregation.

At another church I attended, there was a very tangible sense of friction at the Young Adult Class because, the leader eventually explained to me, two of the attendees were once an item, with the girl suddenly breaking it off, leaving the guy with a lot of hurt and resentment--but they still showed up to the class (maybe hoping to meet someone to get over their broken hearts with.)

Zero, you posted an excellent example and I actually feel sorry for "Joe". He's like the rest us--single, lonely, and praying and believing but actually trying to do something about it.

But complications like this seem to be quite common, and no one tells us how we should navigate our way through them while treating each person involved (as well as ourselves) with Christian dignity.

There can also be other complications as well... a LONG time ago, I asked a guy out in a Bible study I was in--only to find out he had a girlfriend. We'd been in class together for like 6 months (it was a year-long study) and I'd never heard him mention a girlfriend before (she didn't go to that church.)

Then again, there wasn't any room to talk about who we were or what our lives looked like, because it was all business, which I'm sure everyone would say is only proper for a Bible study.

But then how are we supposed to get to know people on a "Hmm... I might be interested in dating that person" basis, and without dating all the single people of opposite gender in the church?

Zero illustrated the point I was trying to make perfectly, and probably much better than I did in the original post.

 

[Mel85]

This is funny, we have about two local churches who bascially are catered to “match make” the singles. It’s stupid tbh, because that shouldn’t be the reason why peeps go to church, and because the singles go to these churches, their chances of finding a husband/wife are high. Sometimes it seems alil desperate.

I think a point is, how long is one willing to wait on the Lord to reveal to them their future spouse? Do we pray and then wait or do we pray and then action? That scripture comes to mind “faith wothout works is dead” but then I think about the other scripture “Love is patient....”

Someone mentioned in here that most of the men at church are their brothers, I can relate to that cause I bascially grew up with the men in my generation at my church, and it kinda grosses me out to look at them in that way. Lol.

 

[Magenta]

I think if a guy asks out a girl, it should be done discreetly, and the other women would not know unless they gossip. If that is the case, the guy is better off looking elsewhere anyway.

This idea of people sharing their experiences being gossip disturbs me. I do understand that gossip is a no-no, but have to wonder, where is the line drawn? Because letting someone know something I have experienced does not seem to fall under the category of gossip, to me.

 

[seoulsearch]

This idea of people sharing their experiences being gossip disturbs me. I do understand that gossip is a no-no, but have to wonder, where is the line drawn? Because letting someone know something I have experienced does not seem to fall under the category of gossip, to me.

I'll be the first to admit that if someone asks me out, I will ask around to see what others know about him and ask how they've seen him treat other people.

I've come to think that it's also a matter of safety. For instance... there have been guys here on CC whom I may have had a little more interest in... but I wind up talking to my female friends here and find out that the guy I'm watching is sending messages to several other women, and sometimes, they've been very sexual/inappropriate in nature.

Or the reverse could be true--there might be a woman here I think I can confide in, but I find out that she's telling everyone about my business or is not what she claims to be, and so I will know to just stay away, even though it makes me sad for her.

I understand what both Dino and Magenta are saying.

I may be wrong, but sometimes I ask about people because I've been in other situations where, if someone hadn't told me any better, I might have gotten involved with the wrong person, and I'm thankful that what others told me spared me that grief.

I know it's a fine line to walk, and one that I'm trying to navigate myself. I've had plenty of my own spats with people over the years, and they haven't been afraid to share with others how they feel about me, lol. I understand though, and we all have a right to our opinions.

It makes me sad that the unfavorable reports might prevent me from getting to know some awesome people, I try to trust that God will nudge the right people into my life so they can make their own decisions.

 

[Magenta]

This is something I have thought a lot about, too, because I have been accused of gossiping when I have been trying to figure things out, seeking wisdom, direction, and support for things I am going through, and also because I have remained silent in situations where it would have been better for others involved if I had spoken up. That is why I ask, where is the line drawn?

To me, gossip has an element of malice to it. I have also been on the other side of things, where people have withheld information from me that, had I known what they were hiding from me, would have significantly altered the course of action I chose to take because I did not know something of importance, something that the other person/people involved knew was important.

 

[Magenta]

I'll be the first to admit that if someone asks me out, I will ask around to see what others know about him and ask how they've seen him treat other people.

I've come to think that it's also a matter of safety. For instance... there have been guys here on CC whom I may have had a little more interest in... but I wind up talking to my female friends here and find out that the guy I'm watching is sending messages to several other women, and sometimes, they've been very sexual/inappropriate in nature.

Or the reverse could be true--there might be a woman here I think I can confide in, but I find out that she's telling everyone about my business or is not what she claims to be, and so I will know to just stay away, even though it makes me sad for her.

I understand what both Dino and Magenta are saying.

I may be wrong, but sometimes I ask about people because I've been in other situations where, if someone hadn't told me any better, I might have gotten involved with the wrong person, and I'm thankful that what others told me spared me that grief.

I know it's a fine line to walk, and one that I'm trying to navigate myself. I've had plenty of my own spats with people over the years, and they haven't been afraid to share with others how they feel about me, lol. I understand though, and we all have a right to our opinions.

It makes me sad that the unfavorable reports might prevent me from getting to know some awesome people, I try to trust that God will nudge the right people into my life so they can make their own decisions.

Kim, you are blessed with much wisdom and insight, have a very strong drive to communicate, and desire to be fair to others. That is a rare combination of favorable characteristics, and makes you a person of integrity whom I would think others find attractive also. I think that people are largely motivated by similar drives and desires that manifest in a variety of ways, but are perceived differently by others due to our own experiences in life that color how we see things, and through which subsequent experiences are filtered.

I like that you mention it being a matter of safety, and sparing others grief

 

[seoulsearch]

This is something I have thought a lot about, too, because I have been accused of gossiping when I have been trying to figure things out, seeking wisdom, direction, and support for things I am going through, and also because I have remained silent in situations where it would have been better for others involved if I had spoken up. That is why I ask, where is the line drawn?

To me, gossip has an element of malice to it. I have also been on the other side of things, where people have withheld information from me that, had I known what they were hiding from me, would have significantly altered the course of action I chose to take because I did not know something of importance, something that the other person/people involved knew was important.

I can totally relate, Magenta.

I had mentioned in another thread that I haven't been on a particular Christian dating site (or any others, for that matter) because they eliminated their chat rooms.

I found out very quickly that for me, the best way to get to know someone was in chat, because I could see people interacting with each other in real time. I remember one guy that I had some interest in--he seemed funny, charming, and smart--but I was leery because of his "I look like a model" avatar photos.

I am a lifelong nerd, and someone who has used/exchanged written communication all her life. While the photo was of someone who claimed to be tall and handsome (the kind of guy in high school who would have never talked to you unless you looked like Gal Gadot), the personality just didn't match. I don't know how to explain it, but to me... being a nerd myself... he actually sounded like a nerd. What I mean is, he sounded like someone who was socially awkward for the most part, and most likely did not look like the pictures he presented.

He liked to joke a lot in the chat room, and as you can tell, I'm kind of game for that, so I would throw out a few jokes in return, so it wasn't long before he started PM'ing me. He never expressed an interest in me beyond our back-and-forth banter--but, he didn't have to.

The women in the room were all approaching me and asking questions like, "What do you think of Handsome347? Do you think he's the real deal?" And from these women, not only did I find out that he was writing at least 4 other women in the room, ranging in age from 22 to 36, but they also told me that he never answered their questions about him, his life, what he did for a living, etc.

Instead, he would just send them pictures of himself and/or his supposed daughter, saying he was busy doing things like coaching her softball team.

Needless to say... Some would call it gossip, and I understand that. But I would call it, these women saved my butt, because they kept me from trying to get close to someone who was sending out huge red flags, some of which, I didn't know about until they told me.

I don't know what the answers should be.

But I do know that I am 99.9% sure that whoever that guy was, he was not the guy in the pictures (which might not have been a bad thing--he might have been perfectly handsome as himself, too.) But the big warning signals for me was that he was evading questions, writing to several women at once, and not being honest about who he was.

And I am thankful that these women took the time to share their experiences with me, because I am positive that it saved me a ton of grief.

P.S. I just read Magenta's post--thank you so much!!! I am always caught in a bind of knowing when, or how much to say in order to spare another person... and I know that sometimes the person won't listen to us anyway. I try very hard to ask God what I should, and should not share, but sometimes, I honestly don't know.

 

[Dino246]

This idea of people sharing their experiences being gossip disturbs me. I do understand that gossip is a no-no, but have to wonder, where is the line drawn? Because letting someone know something I have experienced does not seem to fall under the category of gossip, to me.

Fair point, and perhaps my comment was a bit narrow.

 

[Magenta]

I can totally relate, Magenta.

I had mentioned in another thread that I haven't been on a particular Christian dating site (or any others, for that matter) because they eliminated their chat rooms.

I found out very quickly that for me, the best way to get to know someone was in chat, because I could see people interacting with each other in real time. I remember one guy that I had some interest in--he seemed funny, charming, and smart--but I was leery because of his "I look like a model" avatar photos.

I am a lifelong nerd, and someone who has used/exchanged written communication all her life. While the photo was of someone who claimed to be tall and handsome (the kind of guy in high school who would have never talked to you unless you looked like Gal Gadot), the personality just didn't match. I don't know how to explain it, but to me... being a nerd myself... he actually sounded like a nerd. What I mean is, he sounded like someone who was socially awkward for the most part, and most likely did not look like the pictures he presented.

He liked to joke a lot in the chat room, and as you can tell, I'm kind of game for that, so I would throw out a few jokes in return, so it wasn't long before he started PM'ing me. He never expressed an interest in me beyond our back-and-forth banter--but, he didn't have to.

The women in the room were all approaching me and asking questions like, "What do you think of Handsome347? Do you think he's the real deal?" And from these women, not only did I find out that he was writing at least 4 other women in the room, ranging in age from 22 to 36, but they also told me that he never answered their questions about him, his life, what he did for a living, etc.

Instead, he would just send them pictures of himself and/or his supposed daughter, saying he was busy doing things like coaching her softball team.

Needless to say... Some would call it gossip, and I understand that. But I would call it, these women saved my butt, because they kept me from trying to get close to someone who was sending out huge red flags, some of which, I didn't know about until they told me.

I don't know what the answers should be.

But I do know that I am 99.9% sure that whoever that guy was, he was not the guy in the pictures (which might not have been a bad thing--he might have been perfectly handsome as himself, too.) But the big warning signals for me was that he was evading questions, writing to several women at once, and not being honest about who he was.

And I am thankful that these women took the time to share their experiences with me, because I am positive that it saved me a ton of grief.

P.S. I just read Magenta's post--thank you so much!!! I am always caught in a bind of knowing when, or how much to say in order to spare another person... and I know that sometimes the person won't listen to us anyway. I try very hard to ask God what I should, and should not share, but sometimes, I honestly don't know.

Kim, I did see that other thread where you mentioned that dating site you no longer visit since they dropped the chat feature (please forgive me for lurking more than I post, or make my presence known through likes ). In today's day and age, dating sites all seem suspect to me. Some do not even try to hide that they are more like short-term mating sites, than bona fide places for people to genuinely heart connect with others That is one reason why I appreciate this site, and avoid the others

So true about not always knowing the best way to proceed, or how much God would have us share with those who may benefit from our experiences, strengths, and hope. It really is a fine line we walk, to act with integrity while telling the truth of our perspective, without dishonoring others. It seems no matter how much integrity we have, or how hard we try not to trespass against others, someone is going to be offended, no matter what we say and do, or do not say and do

 

[Tommy379]

I got rid of all my dating apps around Christmas time. I think they all suck, and everyone there is fake, or a scammer.

 

[Magenta]

Fair point, and perhaps my comment was a bit narrow.

Thank you, Dino, I am glad you did not take offense at what I said, for I did not mean to be offensive at all in my comment/observation. I hope you know I have a great deal of respect for you and how you present your beliefs, thoughts, and opinions here

 

[Magenta]

I got rid of all my dating apps around Christmas time. I think they all suck, and everyone there is fake, or a scammer.

I think that was a smart move on your part

 

[cinder]

On the gossip thing, my basic criteria go something like this:

1) It must be factual, true, and objectively measurable, if I have an unproven suspicion it doesn't need to be added to the discussion.

2) The person I'm telling must gain some personal benefit from knowing (beyond satisfying the desire to know everyone's business just because).

If the above criteria are met, then I don't consider it gossip.

Also if the person I'm telling has no current connection to the people in the story and is unlikely to ever meet them, I don't worry about it being gossip since the knowledge will not impact people's relationships.

 

[Tinuviel]

On the gossip thing, my basic criteria go something like this:

1) It must be factual, true, and objectively measurable, if I have an unproven suspicion it doesn't need to be added to the discussion.

2) The person I'm telling must gain some personal benefit from knowing (beyond satisfying the desire to know everyone's business just because).

If the above criteria are met, then I don't consider it gossip.

Also if the person I'm telling has no current connection to the people in the story and is unlikely to ever meet them, I don't worry about it being gossip since the knowledge will not impact people's relationships.

To add to that...When the name is irrelevant, omit it.

 

[Lynx]

There are of course exceptions to the rule. That being said, there might be a sweet woman at work that would love the chance to go on a date with you. Maybe you could write her a little note expressing your interest and slip it to her before you clock out. She would probably kiss this little note, tuck it away in her bible for safe keeping, and put on a little lip gloss.

A young twerp at work was bugging me about this just today. I told him "A 40-year-old single guy with no obvious problems... do you really think I'm still single by accident? I LIKE IT THIS WAY!"

Besides, wouldn't it be a bad idea for the (hypothetical) sweet woman at work to date me? I'm a minister AND a choir boy, two strikes against me, according to your own earlier advice.

 

[seoulsearch]

My counsel, based on observation, pertaining to women, is to not to strictly focus your search on finding a loving and faithful man in your local church setting. There are plenty of good single men outside of church and if you limit your search exclusively to any available men in church you may be neglecting an opportunity of a lifetime.

Why just men in church? It's not as if all of the men outside in the world do not possess the quality and characteristics of what is important in a real man who may one day become your husband. I would especially avoid pastors who, in my opinion are exposed to countless temptations leading to marital infidelity. Oh yeah, do not marry a choir boy because, as with pastors, may have an unrealistic perception of what it means for a wife to submit to her husband. Besides that, they are also probably sexually naïve when it comes to sexual matters.

Of course, God should always be relied on to search and find a man of your heart's desire. Don't set the bar so high that no man can possibly meet your standard of perfection. Also, the longer you wait the more likely it is that there are not a whole lot of virgin men left, and you have to be willing to accept that. No man is perfect but many can become a good supportive husband if given the chance.

Don't wait until all the 'T's' are crossed, all the 'I's' dotted, and all the lights are green before making your move as you may be waiting a very long time as God is not going to drop the perfect spouse in your lap. This will require action on your part. Don't let fear of rejection make you tentative in your approach. This same advice is for the single guys too. If you have a fear of commitment it is best to remain single, being content to watch the years go by and one day ask yourself why you are alone in the world.

There are plenty of single available men and women that would make a good spouse and become your best friend. You just never know who you are going to meet.

For some reason, I completely missed the highlighted part of this post--my apologies.

I have to admit that I would be reluctant to date a pastor not so much because of him, but because of all the unrealistic expectations his congregation would have. I think most people here can tell that I'm far from being a timid little angel, and I would resent living in a highly polished fishbowl. I grew up around pastors, Christian teachers, and their families, and am well-acquainted with the immense pressure they all live under.

I certainly don't want to knock marrying someone in the ministry. But I know that for myself, I could never live up to what people would want or expect in that position. I'm pretty sure they would rally to get rid of me the first time they heard me speak my mind, and I couldn't live the rest of my life having to squelch all my thoughts.

This is also just my own opinion, but I think plenty of other professions are subjected to just as much, and a lot more temptation than pastors--just think how many lawyers and doctors have run off with their secretaries and nurses--so I guess for me, that wouldn't be as big of an issue.

As for being sexually naive, here's where I see a bit of a conflict of interest:

First of all, as a Christian, ideally, you would be a virgin who would be marrying another virgin. Now, maybe I'M the one who's being naive for saying this, but I don't know how two virgins are going to be experts at sex right off the bat anyway, so that seems a bit like a moot argument, but that's just me.

If the other option is someone who is "sexually knowledgeable", my first question would be, "Where, and how, did he obtain all that knowledge?" Since the church isn't teaching it, I would have to assume that his vast body of expertise was amassed through... well... other bodies (so exactly how many of them are we talking about here?) and a vast array of "outside" sources (such as porn and strip clubs) that I wouldn't want to have to have any interference with my marriage in the first place.

This is NOT to say, of course, that only virgins are qualified for Christian marriages, seeing as many people have been married before, but I would be a bit concerned over someone who claimed to be a sexual expert because it's not exactly pleasant thinking about him racking up all that "knowledge" before me.

However, I know different things work for different people (as well as God calling us to different situations), and these are simply my own opinions.

 

[Lynx]

I have to admit that I would be reluctant to date a pastor not so much because of him, but because of all the unrealistic expectations his congregation would have. I think most people here can tell that I'm far from being a timid little angel, and I would resent living in a highly polished fishbowl. I grew up around pastors, Christian teachers, and their families, and am well-acquainted with the immense pressure they all live under.

I certainly don't want to knock marrying someone in the ministry. But I know that for myself, I could never live up to what people would want or expect in that position. I'm pretty sure they would rally to get rid of me the first time they heard me speak my mind, and I couldn't live the rest of my life having to squelch all my thoughts.

Well, I grew up in the glass house of a preacher
Where every move I ever made was a feature
And when you don't always do what they teach you
You see they always point you out



Yeah, but it's just like Toby Mac used to say
Some people gotta learn the hard way
And when I couldn't outrun all the things I'd done
I picked up the phone and my dad said


Son, when you can't find a friend in the world
A friend in the world,
Love is reaching down
When you can't find a friend in the world
A friend in the world,
You got one now


~Matthew West

 

[Lynx]

Eh, why not put the song up? This thread needs a good song anyway, and all us single people need a good song sometimes.

[video=youtube;OyLpMO6uBZ8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyLpMO6uBZ8[/video]

 

[tourist]

For some reason, I completely missed the highlighted part of this post--my apologies.

I have to admit that I would be reluctant to date a pastor not so much because of him, but because of all the unrealistic expectations his congregation would have. I think most people here can tell that I'm far from being a timid little angel, and I would resent living in a highly polished fishbowl. I grew up around pastors, Christian teachers, and their families, and am well-acquainted with the immense pressure they all live under.

I certainly don't want to knock marrying someone in the ministry. But I know that for myself, I could never live up to what people would want or expect in that position. I'm pretty sure they would rally to get rid of me the first time they heard me speak my mind, and I couldn't live the rest of my life having to squelch all my thoughts.

This is also just my own opinion, but I think plenty of other professions are subjected to just as much, and a lot more temptation than pastors--just think how many lawyers and doctors have run off with their secretaries and nurses--so I guess for me, that wouldn't be as big of an issue.

As for being sexually naive, here's where I see a bit of a conflict of interest:

First of all, as a Christian, ideally, you would be a virgin who would be marrying another virgin. Now, maybe I'M the one who's being naive for saying this, but I don't know how two virgins are going to be experts at sex right off the bat anyway, so that seems a bit like a moot argument, but that's just me.

If the other option is someone who is "sexually knowledgeable", my first question would be, "Where, and how, did he obtain all that knowledge?" Since the church isn't teaching it, I would have to assume that his vast body of expertise was amassed through... well... other bodies (so exactly how many of them are we talking about here?) and a vast array of "outside" sources (such as porn and strip clubs) that I wouldn't want to have to have any interference with my marriage in the first place.

This is NOT to say, of course, that only virgins are qualified for Christian marriages, seeing as many people have been married before, but I would be a bit concerned over someone who claimed to be a sexual expert because it's not exactly pleasant thinking about him racking up all that "knowledge" before me.

However, I know different things work for different people (as well as God calling us to different situations), and these are simply my own opinions.

I enjoyed your post very much and found myself agreeing with everything that you said. You are definitely one of the more sensible members of this site with a very positive yet realistic approach to matters of this world and matters of the heart.

 

[seoulsearch]

I enjoyed your post very much and found myself agreeing with everything that you said. You are definitely one of the more sensible members of this site with a very positive yet realistic approach to matters of this world and matters of the heart.

Thank you for always being a kind and encouraging person, tourist.

I also appreciate that even as a married person, you don't forget what it was like to be single, and always make a point to stop in and cheer the rest of us on.

God's blessings to you and JesusLives. <3