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zeroturbulence why do you assume God put the virus in the robot? When God made the world it was perfect. The original sin came from the head angel, who got too big for his britches. The creator didn't damage the robot, the robot damaged itself.
If I give a kid a toy and he repeatedly bashes it against the wall, is it my fault the toy is broken?
zeroturbulence why do you assume God put the virus in the robot? When God made the world it was perfect. The original sin came from the head angel, who got too big for his britches. The creator didn't damage the robot, the robot damaged itself.
If I give a kid a toy and he repeatedly bashes it against the wall, is it my fault the toy is broken?
Yes! How to approach such times as we should. I will pray for all of you who are struggling with such times..........but, as simple as it sounds, such times are when we should praise God the most. The Apostle Paul sang praised to God while in prison, and while suffering great physical afflictions.
No, it isn't easy the first few times........but, as with anything else, the more we do this, the easier it becomes. I know that this has worked for me, and I thank God that He is not ONLY the God on the mountain, but He is God of the valley as well. When we are in life's valleys is when we must praise Him.
Hi Zero,
I personally think you're asking questions almost all of us ask, at least I know I'VE asked these things hundreds of times, too.
It seems in your analogy, perhaps the "virus" would be free will. Which is something I've wondered about since I was a kid. At my Christian school, they always told me how wonderful God was for not making us mindless robots and giving us the beautiful gift of free will... That allowed us to sin and completely mess up the world!!! UGH!!! At least that's how I saw it.
But no, they said, God is so loving that He gave us a CHOICE. AND THEN they told me... that when we get to heaven, God makes it so "we won't sin anymore, or even want to sin." Hmm. That sounds an awful lot like... Finally taking away that "beautiful gift" of the choice of free will???!!! So then aren't we then just back to square one!!??? ARGH. It drove me crazy as a kid because to me, it was all circular reasoning that didn't make any sense and I thought it was just downright ridiculous!!!
I don't know why God allowed choice, and therefore, sin, into His perfect creation. After all, He's God... He KNEW what was going to happen from the start, and even before He made the creation. I've read many debates about this... that maybe God was interested in creatures that would love Him because they CHOSE to and not just because He made them that way. After all, you would want a woman to love you for you, not because she was made to do so. (Which makes the thought of humans creating things such as robot companions for sex, like in Japan, especially interesting to me... )
I have always also been intrigued by the fact that we, as human beings, have a chance for salvation, but ANGEL DO NOT. Jesus died for human beings, not angels--why? Why would angels not receive a second chance as well? I've read speculations that part of the reason why may be that angels saw and knew God from the beginning, whereas we humans must rely on faith.
I've also read that maybe part of why God allowed sin into the world is because it was the only way He could show certain parts of Himself to His creation. For instance, I've often wondered, what would we all talk about if Jesus had never died for us? Sure, we'd see God as Holy and amazing and magnificent, but we would have no idea that we could fall to the bottom of the pit of wretchedness... and that God would STILL love us, and even DIE for us at the cost of His own life. We'd never know that God would LEAVE perfection ON PURPOSE just to seek us out and have a chance to be with us once more.
I can relate to this in just a small way because many years ago, despair took over my entire thought process and I attempted suicide. I will never forget the anxious, heaving, heart-bleeding sighs coming from my father (even though there was so much going on, I couldn't SEE him but I could HEAR him) in the ER. About a decade later, God prompted me to call my parents and apologize to them, and when I did, my father, choking back tears, said, "Well honey, that's water under the bridge. We are just... so glad... that you're still with us."
I was always "the good kid"--never really got into trouble, always tried to do the right thing (with a little sass here and there, of course!
) And of course, I'm not justifying my actions at all. But what I do know is that without this event happening in my life, I would have NEVER known that angle of the depth of my parents' love for me. It wasn't enough that they rescued me by adopting me. It wasn't enough that they provided love, support, correction, a Christian background, and the best medical care they could afford. What I found out is that even when I was willing to THROW ALL THAT LOVE AWAY, my parents reached out... and loved me all the more.
I sometimes wonder if THIS is what God wanted to show us by allowing a side we would not otherwise know into the world.
Now, I know many people (as I just read one poster say today in the Bible Forum) will say, what kind of being is God to do this just to show Himself off... at the cost of the horrendous things that happen here on earth and the eternal suffering of billions of other creations?
For my own self, that is the million dollar question, and I'm sure I won't have an answer to it until I get to heaven, and maybe even then, I won't understand, but will have to go by faith, just was we have to do here. God tells us His ways and thinking are higher than our own... I know it doesn't make sense... to us... right now...
All I know is, God says He loves me and wants me to be with Him forever someday, and I have to trust in that.
BIG HUGS to you, Zero. You are certainly not alone. Many of us have the exact same questions... I say this to you in Christian love: keep asking, seeking, and knocking. *hugs*
I personally think you're asking questions almost all of us ask, at least I know I'VE asked these things hundreds of times, too.
It seems in your analogy, perhaps the "virus" would be free will. Which is something I've wondered about since I was a kid. At my Christian school, they always told me how wonderful God was for not making us mindless robots and giving us the beautiful gift of free will... That allowed us to sin and completely mess up the world!!! UGH!!! At least that's how I saw it.
But no, they said, God is so loving that He gave us a CHOICE. AND THEN they told me... that when we get to heaven, God makes it so "we won't sin anymore, or even want to sin." Hmm. That sounds an awful lot like... Finally taking away that "beautiful gift" of the choice of free will???!!! So then aren't we then just back to square one!!??? ARGH. It drove me crazy as a kid because to me, it was all circular reasoning that didn't make any sense and I thought it was just downright ridiculous!!!
I don't know why God allowed choice, and therefore, sin, into His perfect creation. After all, He's God... He KNEW what was going to happen from the start, and even before He made the creation. I've read many debates about this... that maybe God was interested in creatures that would love Him because they CHOSE to and not just because He made them that way. After all, you would want a woman to love you for you, not because she was made to do so. (Which makes the thought of humans creating things such as robot companions for sex, like in Japan, especially interesting to me... )
I have always also been intrigued by the fact that we, as human beings, have a chance for salvation, but ANGEL DO NOT. Jesus died for human beings, not angels--why? Why would angels not receive a second chance as well? I've read speculations that part of the reason why may be that angels saw and knew God from the beginning, whereas we humans must rely on faith.
I've also read that maybe part of why God allowed sin into the world is because it was the only way He could show certain parts of Himself to His creation. For instance, I've often wondered, what would we all talk about if Jesus had never died for us? Sure, we'd see God as Holy and amazing and magnificent, but we would have no idea that we could fall to the bottom of the pit of wretchedness... and that God would STILL love us, and even DIE for us at the cost of His own life. We'd never know that God would LEAVE perfection ON PURPOSE just to seek us out and have a chance to be with us once more.
I can relate to this in just a small way because many years ago, despair took over my entire thought process and I attempted suicide. I will never forget the anxious, heaving, heart-bleeding sighs coming from my father (even though there was so much going on, I couldn't SEE him but I could HEAR him) in the ER. About a decade later, God prompted me to call my parents and apologize to them, and when I did, my father, choking back tears, said, "Well honey, that's water under the bridge. We are just... so glad... that you're still with us."
I was always "the good kid"--never really got into trouble, always tried to do the right thing (with a little sass here and there, of course!
) And of course, I'm not justifying my actions at all. But what I do know is that without this event happening in my life, I would have NEVER known that angle of the depth of my parents' love for me. It wasn't enough that they rescued me by adopting me. It wasn't enough that they provided love, support, correction, a Christian background, and the best medical care they could afford. What I found out is that even when I was willing to THROW ALL THAT LOVE AWAY, my parents reached out... and loved me all the more.I sometimes wonder if THIS is what God wanted to show us by allowing a side we would not otherwise know into the world.
Now, I know many people (as I just read one poster say today in the Bible Forum) will say, what kind of being is God to do this just to show Himself off... at the cost of the horrendous things that happen here on earth and the eternal suffering of billions of other creations?
For my own self, that is the million dollar question, and I'm sure I won't have an answer to it until I get to heaven, and maybe even then, I won't understand, but will have to go by faith, just was we have to do here. God tells us His ways and thinking are higher than our own... I know it doesn't make sense... to us... right now...
All I know is, God says He loves me and wants me to be with Him forever someday, and I have to trust in that.
BIG HUGS to you, Zero. You are certainly not alone. Many of us have the exact same questions... I say this to you in Christian love: keep asking, seeking, and knocking. *hugs*
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Ahh yeah, that's a big question. I'm inclined to believe that it's at least partially because God is a lot more glorified in a person choosing Him to the exclusion of another choice rather than a person following Him because he/she was programmed to. Now just to clarify, I don't believe in free will (I kind of want to write a book someday on why I don't), but I think the alternative to free will looks very similar to free will itself.
P.S. Zero,
I just wanted to expand on one particular thought in my previous post. A social trend that's quite interesting to me is, as I mentioned, the fact that humans, for years, have tried to create artificial intelligence and emotion that will serve a human being's every whim, but yet, apparently GIVE THE APPEARANCE OF FREE WILL.
In other words... People want someone to serve their every command but make it seem as if that person is CHOOSING to do so and that their motivation is LOVE for the person they are serving.
Because God says we are made in His image... I often wonder if this desire was also given to us as a small glimpse into God Himself feels--the fact that He wants beings to love and serve Him... but to do so from a genuine heart.
And it seems, the only place that point of sincerity could be born was among a choice to not love or or serve... Are the consequences worth it? God apparently must think so, and while it doesn't make sense to us...
Maybe someday He'll allow us to understand. Either that, or I'm guessing that when we get to heaven, for some reason, it won't matter any more... Which of course, doesn't help us much here while we're on earth.
All I can say is... Keep going to God with your concerns, Zero. I don't know about you, but now days every time I feel something like this bothering me, it's as if God keeps saying to me, "Come to me and talk to me about it..." and while I don't get the answers, I know it does really help.
And I hope this helps you as well, my dear friend. *hugs*
I just wanted to expand on one particular thought in my previous post. A social trend that's quite interesting to me is, as I mentioned, the fact that humans, for years, have tried to create artificial intelligence and emotion that will serve a human being's every whim, but yet, apparently GIVE THE APPEARANCE OF FREE WILL.
In other words... People want someone to serve their every command but make it seem as if that person is CHOOSING to do so and that their motivation is LOVE for the person they are serving.
Because God says we are made in His image... I often wonder if this desire was also given to us as a small glimpse into God Himself feels--the fact that He wants beings to love and serve Him... but to do so from a genuine heart.
And it seems, the only place that point of sincerity could be born was among a choice to not love or or serve... Are the consequences worth it? God apparently must think so, and while it doesn't make sense to us...
Maybe someday He'll allow us to understand. Either that, or I'm guessing that when we get to heaven, for some reason, it won't matter any more... Which of course, doesn't help us much here while we're on earth.
All I can say is... Keep going to God with your concerns, Zero. I don't know about you, but now days every time I feel something like this bothering me, it's as if God keeps saying to me, "Come to me and talk to me about it..." and while I don't get the answers, I know it does really help.
And I hope this helps you as well, my dear friend. *hugs*
Wow. Free will. Had an argument with my son about this very subject and I was called stupid. Unfortunately the amount of free will you have is very limited. Look around you. Everything runs by rules, do this and that happens. You cannot choose the consequences. God wanted to create friends, being similar to himself, driven by love.
Now how can you do this without accepting they could choose the opposite. And also to achieve this you have to walk away, have a hands off approach. Now at the end of everything, the good will be kept and the failures just swept away.
I do laugh a bit. A thief on the cross next to Jesus says, "Remember me", and Jesus gives him eternal life.
Atheist choose to reject this love, this humbleness, this life, and walk there own road, knowing they have just one life. God says fine, that is your lot. That is justice. The very gift of life they treasure taken from them, because they prized this above love itself.
Now is it wrong to create a world with pain, suffering and choice with the chance at eternity, or to never give life to anyone? I would choose life and chance over nothing any time.
Now the image of robots, of programmed people who have no option, is like a toy you play with as a child. It is a shadow of the real thing. Do you think the creator or you would even settle for such a compromise?
The church has too long played up fear and hell, over love and working through hurts. Is the problem in life we are selfish people or we are hurt, frightened and alone people, betrayed by those we loved, so skeptical of any offers that might come our way, choosing the best we can snatch before some bigger bully snatches it away from us.
I think this is the real picture, and we are often too scared, me included, to become truly vulnerable and open. I pray Gods love may so overwhelm us, we can accept his healing and help others be healed also....
Now how can you do this without accepting they could choose the opposite. And also to achieve this you have to walk away, have a hands off approach. Now at the end of everything, the good will be kept and the failures just swept away.
I do laugh a bit. A thief on the cross next to Jesus says, "Remember me", and Jesus gives him eternal life.
Atheist choose to reject this love, this humbleness, this life, and walk there own road, knowing they have just one life. God says fine, that is your lot. That is justice. The very gift of life they treasure taken from them, because they prized this above love itself.
Now is it wrong to create a world with pain, suffering and choice with the chance at eternity, or to never give life to anyone? I would choose life and chance over nothing any time.
Now the image of robots, of programmed people who have no option, is like a toy you play with as a child. It is a shadow of the real thing. Do you think the creator or you would even settle for such a compromise?
The church has too long played up fear and hell, over love and working through hurts. Is the problem in life we are selfish people or we are hurt, frightened and alone people, betrayed by those we loved, so skeptical of any offers that might come our way, choosing the best we can snatch before some bigger bully snatches it away from us.
I think this is the real picture, and we are often too scared, me included, to become truly vulnerable and open. I pray Gods love may so overwhelm us, we can accept his healing and help others be healed also....
W
I know the kind....
I tried to get someone access the tools menu on IE today
me: You see way up on the upper right, by the red button with a cross?
cu: I see applications, consumables ..... (reading menu of web page)
me: no, not the webpage itself, the browser, the window you view the page in, waaay up to the right. The button you use to close the window
cu: yeah, there, I see it
me: Ok, under it, there should be either a cogwheel , or something called tools or verktøy
cu: no, there isn't anything there. There is something saying tools though
....
I tried to get someone access the tools menu on IE today
me: You see way up on the upper right, by the red button with a cross?
cu: I see applications, consumables ..... (reading menu of web page)
me: no, not the webpage itself, the browser, the window you view the page in, waaay up to the right. The button you use to close the window
cu: yeah, there, I see it
me: Ok, under it, there should be either a cogwheel , or something called tools or verktøy
cu: no, there isn't anything there. There is something saying tools though
....
one time, a caller wanted me to check her insurance. she said she had to find her insurance card in her purse or wherever. so i waited for her to say she was back so i can get the information i needed. no one spoke for what felt like an eternity until i finally said, "hello?" she said, "yes i'm waiting for you to tell me what my insurance covers" ........... and yet, she had not given me ANY information: company name, member id, date of birth. how was i supposed to check?!!
GAH!!!!!!!!!!!
GAH!!!!!!!!!!!
M
While I don't think there is ever really a good time for body parts to fail, I find it incredibly inconvenient that my back would suddenly go out today, in the middle of a week when I'm home alone with two toddlers (one of whom needs picked up often). I bent over to get a pair of pants out of the dresser drawer and couldn't stand back up. This happened to my mom when I was little- she bent down to pick up a piece of paper, got stuck that way, and had to lie on the couch for several days. I thought it was kind of funny then. Not so much today. At least I can still stand, if I don't bend or twist. Maybe it will get better before the new rug gets here later.
Question, though- do I ice it or heat it?
Question, though- do I ice it or heat it?