Why Don't We Hear About Single Christian Women Looking for Husbands in Other Countries?

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proverbs35

Senior Member
Nov 10, 2012
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I guess the words "And his soul clave unto Dinah the daughter of Jacob, and he loved the damsel, and spake kindly unto the damsel" don't really seem to fit with rape (what rapist cares about his victim?) To take a wife doesn't imply the rape of the wife, and defilement can come from an unholy union, not just a rape (e.g. as in this case of an Israelite virgin and an uncircumcised heathen). But perhaps like you say, he didn't even realise he had done her wrong.
The biblical account of Dinah's rape and Tamar's rape are more about eros - erotic love - lust. So very often, erotic love (lust) is not substantial or long lasting. It's fickle and fades as beauty fades.

Dinah's rape reminds me of Tamar's rape. In both accounts, the rapists claimed to love and care for their victims.

In the course of time, Amnon son of David fell in love with Tamar, the beautiful sister of Absalom son of David.
2 Amnon became so obsessed with his sister Tamar that he made himself ill. She was a virgin, and it seemed impossible for him to do anything to her.
He raped her. 15 Then Amnon hated her with intense hatred. In fact, he hated her more than he had loved her. (2 Samuel 13)

This is such a paradox. If Amnon loved Tamar so much why did he hurt (rape) her in the first place? He didn't love (agape) her. He lusted (eros) for her. Lust in and of itself is not love. If can be a by product of love, but lust (eros) is not love.

Roman's 13:10 says that love does not harm. If the men who raped Dinah and Tamar truly loved (agape) them, they never would have harmed (raped) them in the first place. These men lusted for them, but they didn't love (agape) them.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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well the difference between Dinahs so called rape (or fornication) and Tamars is that Tamars was her half brother...and she really didnt want him.
 

Lanolin

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it says he was stronger than her forced her even when she protested.
 

Lanolin

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maybe ask the Filipinos on the Christian Filipino forum fight here on CC about it. You can post this thread on there.
 

Kim82

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Jun 17, 2018
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What's ironic to me is that there seems to be no equivalent for women.

If it's fair for men to want what they want, wouldn't God allow women to their own wants as well?
The market is there for women. They can order a foreign husband. But he'll be broke, and totally dependent on her.

Most men with money will not relocate. They are established in their own country. So a woman can't order a man with money from abroad to come to her.
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
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And somewhere up in Heaven, Dinah remarks to God, "Can you believe this? They decided I CHOSE to sleep with that guy in the first place!"

And God replies with a sigh, "Yes, I know. They blame the victim a lot these days."
 

proverbs35

Senior Member
Nov 10, 2012
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And somewhere up in Heaven, Dinah remarks to God, "Can you believe this? They decided I CHOSE to sleep with that guy in the first place!"

And God replies with a sigh, "Yes, I know. They blame the victim a lot these days."
That's the exact same thing I was thinking. You hit the nail on the head.

The Bible...
The Bible ...
The Bible ...
The Bible states that he took her and raped her. Gen 34:2

The Bible does not say that he so called raped her or that he allegedly raped her. The Bible says that he raped her.
 

Lanolin

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no actually it depends on which bible you are reading. Lay with means had sexual intercourse, defile means Dinahs boyfriend wasnt clean, but Tamars situation was that Ammon FORCED her even when she said NO. and ammon was actually circumcised as all Israelites were.
 

Lanolin

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Its very clear that Dinahs situation was actually quite different from Tamars.
 

Lanolin

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Shechem was willing to be circumcised and to marry Dinah, Ammon wasnt.
not saying shechem was doing the right thing but he totally did not force Dinah the way ammon forced Tamar.
 
May 23, 2020
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I worked in Asia for a while and thought it would be harder for a western woman to marry any Asian man than the other way around.
I thought the cultural differences are harder on a woman. MEn genearlly are the major earners in most cultures which means a man's job is still to go out of the house and earn the money. That is true anywhere for the most part. The woman has a very different role in different cultures. I think that would be harder than merely working and she does the home life.
 

proverbs35

Senior Member
Nov 10, 2012
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Its very clear that Dinahs situation was actually quite different from Tamars.
I really don't have time for a detailed response now. I hope to later.

However, I never said that Dinah's rape and Tamar's rape were exactly the same. I never said that Dinah's rape and Tamar's rape were identical. I would imagine that no sexual assaults are exactly the same or identical. Each assault would have it's own varying factors and set of circumstances.

With that be said the majority of Bible translations say that he took her and raped her.
 

proverbs35

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Nov 10, 2012
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Shechem was willing to be circumcised and to marry Dinah, Ammon wasnt.
not saying shechem was doing the right thing but he totally did not force Dinah the way ammon forced Tamar.
The fact that Shechem was willing to be circumcised to marry Dinah doesn't make him a hero or a knight in shining armor. What Shechem did was a form of bride kidnapping. It's a horrible, ancient and common practice in Eastern countries.

Marriage by abduction, marriage by capture and bride kidnapping is a practice in which a man takes the woman he wishes to marry. The woman is raped and taken as his wife.

The Bible says that Shechem took Dinah and raped her. He and his father did not go to her father beforehand to ask him for her hand in marriage which was customary. Shechem took Dinah and raped her. Once Dinah was raped and defiled, she was considered damaged goods. She was no longer an eligible bachelorette. Thus, making it easier for Shechem to secure her for himself. Had he and his father gone to her father beforehand and asked for her hand in marriage, her father could have said no. However, after he had already taken her and raped her, she was damaged goods and not eligible to marry another.

Amnon already knew that he could not marry Tamar. As you referenced earlier, they were brother and sister.

Moses outlawed sibling marriage in Lev 18:9. According to Levitical law, siblings could not marry and that was common knowledge among the Jews. Having the knowledge that Levitical law forbid sibling marriage, Amnon wouldn't have gone to David asking for his sister Tamar's had in marriage because sibling marriage was against the law.
 

proverbs35

Senior Member
Nov 10, 2012
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no actually it depends on which bible you are reading. Lay with means had sexual intercourse, defile means Dinahs boyfriend wasnt clean, but Tamars situation was that Ammon FORCED her even when she said NO. and ammon was actually circumcised as all Israelites were.
And when Shechem the son of Hamor the Hivite, prince of the country, saw her, he took her, and lay with her, and defiled her. Gen 34:2 KJV

And when Shechem the son of Hamor the Hivite, the prince of the land, saw her, he took her and lay with her by FORCE. Gen 34:2 NAS

The Hebrew word for defiled that some translations use in Gen 34:2 is Strong's Bible Concordance 6031 a.anah.

https://biblehub.com/lexicon/genesis/34-2.htm

It means to afflict, do violence, force, oppress, silence, treat harshly, violate.

https://biblehub.com/hebrew/6031a.htm

According to the Hebrew dictionary the word defile that some translations use in Gen 34:2, Shechem took Dinah, and lay with her (had sexual intercourse) in a way that was afflicting, violent, forceful, oppressive, harsh, and silencing.
 

Moses_Young

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Sep 15, 2019
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no actually it depends on which bible you are reading. Lay with means had sexual intercourse, defile means Dinahs boyfriend wasnt clean, but Tamars situation was that Ammon FORCED her even when she said NO. and ammon was actually circumcised as all Israelites were.
I fully agree. And as the KJV (more reliable than the constantly changing NIV, in my opinion) doesn't say rape, and as the situation described sounds different to rape (what rapist loves or speaks tenderly to his victim), I think that the charge of rape isn't so clear in Dinah's case. Note that this is by today's standard of rape - in those days, perhaps the man was always viewed as guilty, whether the woman was willing or not.

The biblical account of Dinah's rape and Tamar's rape are more about eros - erotic love - lust. So very often, erotic love (lust) is not substantial or long lasting. It's fickle and fades as beauty fades.
Can you prove this in Dinah's case from the text, without relying on the NIV?

Dinah's rape reminds me of Tamar's rape. In both accounts, the rapists claimed to love and care for their victims.
Two totally different accounts. Tamar's is consistent with rape, and the KJV states she was forced. No such statement for Dinah.

The Hebrew word for defiled that some translations use in Gen 34:2 is Strong's Bible Concordance 6031 a.anah.

https://biblehub.com/lexicon/genesis/34-2.htm

It means to afflict, do violence, force, oppress, silence, treat harshly, violate.
Isn't intercourse with any virgin outside of marriage a defilement in this sense, and moreso that this case involved an Israelite maiden by an uncircumcised heathen?

Ezekiel 44 talks about defilement of God's temple simply by having the uncircumcised present. This would be double defilement, given that the uncircumcised heathen was not even married to Dinah.
 
Jun 21, 2020
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Hey Everyone,

I was just thinking about the fact that I've often read about men who look for love online in foreign countries (meaning, for this thread, any country other than the one they are living in or identify with.) Several years ago here in Singles, we had a few middle-aged men (in their 50's) who were very enthusiastically encouraging Christian men to look for young brides in Asian countries. I remember one specifically saying that "American women are poison," and therefore, a man's best chance was to look overseas.

Over the years, I've personally known about 15 married couples in which the spouses were from completely different countries and cultures. In the past, I've written some threads about the unique challenges they've told me they face, but this thread is not about that.

Rather, I'd like to ask -- if Christian men feel led by God to seek young wives from other countries, why aren't Christian women doing the same?

As I've said, I've known some couples who fit this category, but it was always the husband who had actively pursued options in other countries, and not the wife. So why don't we see this in reverse? I've never met, or even read about, a single couple in which the woman was the one who was actively pursuing men in other countries through dating sites that advertise foreign spouses, etc. Why not? (I'm sure there must be a few out there, but why would it be so rare?)

* Is it because the men are seen as being the ones who should pursue, and therefore, women shouldn't be pursuing men? (If so, why,, and are they, allowed to pursue men within their own country?)

* Is it because more men are in a position to hunt for foreign spouses than women? (For example, they don't have kids or have enough leniency in their custody agreements to be able to pursue someone in another country.)

* Is it because women just aren't interested in this kind of option?

I would really be interested in hearing your feedback.

Please note -- I'm neither encouraging nor condoning this for either gender. If a person feels led by God to pursue a spouse in another country, who am I to say anything?

But ladies, if you DID decide to look for men in other countries:

* Would you be more likely to look for someone who is younger (as the men seem to do), about your age, or older?

* Would you travel to the country to meet him, or would you want him to come to your country instead? And would do you think you'd wind up moving to his country, or would you expect him to move to yours?

I know that duplicate threads are usually frowned upon, but I am going to copy this and put it up in the Family Forum as well. I'm interested in what both singles and married have to say about this, and know that the best way to try to glean from both groups is to post in both forums.

Looking forward to an interesting discussion!
That's Cool but am i safe on this site?
 

Kim82

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Jun 17, 2018
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I understand. The same people who denigrate women who expect their men to provide are usually the same who denigrate stay-at-home moms as lazy, and who denigrate the men who seek a feminine woman as chauvinist. There are two systems at play - God's and the world's. It is extra sad when many Christians take the world's view of things. But from my perspective, the man's role is to provide, the woman's role is to support him (to be his lifesaver, I think, it how Genesis roughly translates). I don't see it as gold-digging for a woman to look for a man who will provide for and protect her. He gives her physical support - she gives him herself and bears his children.
When I get home from work in the evenings, I just want to relax. Sometimes I wonder about the women who work and have kids and husband to take care of, how do they do it all?

Im not married, but for me, the thought of not working and depending on my husband to take care of me and our children is a scary thought.

I've seen and heard too many horror stories of abusive or cheating husbands or husbands leaving wife for other women. How does a wife deal with that when she is totally dependent on her husband? How does a woman and her kids handle themselves in such a situation?

Some men want lots of kids, and the women comply. What happens if the husband gets sick or loses his job?

When a man walks out the door leaving a woman with her kids, where will she find another man to rescue her now that she has "baggage"? She put on weight from making babies, she not young anymore. Will she find a new husband?

If she does find a new man, that man will want his own kids. So she get pregnant again and have some more kids. If that man leaves. She find a new man to take care of her. Repeat.

Repeat.

Nobody got time for that lol

So the best thing is for both the husband and wife to work. The wife needs to be fully independent. Hire a cleaning lady and nanny to help her manage the house. That's what I would do.

That is my culture. All sensible Jamaican woman know that being independent is the way to go.
 

Kim82

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Jun 17, 2018
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I want to add that a working woman, should not be so busy that she never has time for her husband and kids. So there needs to be a balance.
 

proverbs35

Senior Member
Nov 10, 2012
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Can you prove this in Dinah's case from the text, without relying on the NIV?



Two totally different accounts. Tamar's is consistent with rape, and the KJV states she was forced. No such statement for Dinah.

As I stated above, MULTIPLE Bible TRANSLATIONS say that Shechem raped Dinah and took her by force.

https://biblehub.com/genesis/34-2.htm

Can you prove that Shechem didn't rape Dinah and take her by force?

Can you prove that Shechem and Dinah had consensual sex?

Can you prove this in Dinah WANTED to lay with Shechem?

Scriptural evidence - not assumptions. I have little interest in assumptions or opinions. I rely on scripture verses and lexical evidence (Strong's concordance) to study of the Hebrew language because Hebrew is original language of the Old Testament. English (that includes the KJV) is only a translation of the Bible - not the original language.