It is finished.

[ElizabethPeter]

No offence and all, but I have a lot to learn? Did you read your Bible lately? Or are you just trying to put words into God's mouth? I don't know about you, but I'd rather listen to God word, than mans. Because it's better to have faith in God, than to trust man. And please, don't judge me based on my age. I may be young, but God never said anything about age being a limit to His righteousness. God bless you, and hope you have a nice day. And btw, just because you have more years of experience than me, doesn't mean you're more informed. Just putting it out there.

 

[Laodicea]

No offence and all, but I have a lot to learn? Did you read your Bible lately? Or are you just trying to put words into God's mouth? I don't know about you, but I'd rather listen to God word, than mans. Because it's better to have faith in God, than to trust man. And please, don't judge me based on my age. I may be young, but God never said anything about age being a limit to His righteousness. God bless you, and hope you have a nice day. And btw, just because you have more years of experience than me, doesn't mean you're more informed. Just putting it out there.

Are you having trouble understanding the fact the sacrifices were never an atonement? Because the text I showed you says that.

 

[ElizabethPeter]

Are you trying to put words into God's mouth? Because the Bible says so. More importantly, God says so. Now tell me, who should I believe? You, the creation, or Him, the creator? Yeah, that's what I thought. God bless.

 

[haz]

Hebrews 10:1-4 KJV
(1) For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
(2) For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
(3) But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
(4) For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Do you believe Christ's sacrifice totally purged/cleansed us from sin?

If so then do you believe Christians are still in sin?

 

[Laodicea]

Are you trying to put words into God's mouth? Because the Bible says so. More importantly, God says so. Now tell me, who should I believe? You, the creation, or Him, the creator? Yeah, that's what I thought. God bless.

Why wont you answer? It is not a hard question?
Hebrews 10:1-4 KJV
(1) For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
(2) For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
(3) But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
(4) For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

 

[Laodicea]

Do you believe Christ's sacrifice totally purged/cleansed us from sin?

If so then do you believe Christians are still in sin?

This is your answer
John 3:16 KJV
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Revelation 3:20 KJV
(20) Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Christ's death made it possible for all to receive forgiveness if they come to Christ.
1 John 1:9 KJV
(9) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

Do you believe Christ's sacrifice totally purged/cleansed us from sin?

If so then do you believe Christians are still in sin?

Totally purged the guilt by law which sin used to kill us.

Ponder the difference.

 

[haz]

This is your answer
Christ's death made it possible for all to receive forgiveness if they come to Christ.
1 John 1:9 KJV
(9) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

It seems you believe Christians are still in sin in spite of the cross.
But only past sin was dealt with at the cross, Rom 3:25.
And once cleansed worshippers have no more conscience of sin, Heb 10:2

We differ in understanding of 1John 1:9.

As you think it refers to Christians, what "sin" are they yet charged with?
Is it transgression of the law (1John 3:4)?
And what if a Christians forgets or misses due to unexpected circumstances, to confess their sin?

 

[Laodicea]

It seems you believe Christians are still in sin in spite of the cross.
But only past sin was dealt with at the cross, Rom 3:25.
And once cleansed worshippers have no more conscience of sin, Heb 10:2

We differ in understanding of 1John 1:9.

As you think it refers to Christians, what "sin" are they yet charged with?
Is it transgression of the law (1John 3:4)?
And what if a Christians forgets or misses due to unexpected circumstances, to confess their sin?

We have free choice, we can choose to accept salvation and freedom from sin or we can choose to continue a life of sin. God will not choose for us we must choose for ourselves.

 

[livingepistle]

Originally Posted by svedbygrace
ps
It does not matter, man is not saved by doing spiritual works either ! In fact, the natural man cannot do anything pleasing to God period, not even believe or have faith !

You got the first part right when you say we are not saved by works, but to say you cannot believe, for example that the sun will rise tomorrow is ridiculous.

When I was a child I had faith in my parents, I have faith in God now and it does not involve one jot of work.

What I would like to know is this, if you are not saved by works and you are not saved by faith because you think it is 'works' then how on earth do you think you are saved?

Acts 10:34-48

34Then Peter began to speak to them: “I truly understand that God shows no partiality, 35but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him. 36You know the message he sent to the people of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ—he is Lord of all. 37That message spread throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John announced: 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power; how he went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him. 39We are witnesses to all that he did both in Judea and in Jerusalem. They put him to death by hanging him on a tree; 40but God raised him on the third day and allowed him to appear, 41not to all the people but to us who were chosen by God as witnesses, and who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. 42He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one ordained by God as judge of the living and the dead. 43All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

44While Peter was still speaking, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard the word. 45The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles, 46for they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter said, 47“Can anyone withhold the water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48So he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they invited him to stay for several days.

 

[haz]

We have free choice, we can choose to accept salvation and freedom from sin or we can choose to continue a life of sin. God will not choose for us we must choose for ourselves.

John 16:9 tells us it's the sin of unbelief in Jesus that the world is convicted of.

Rom 8:33 tells us that nothing can be charged against those God has justified.

Yet, you are still judging a Christian's righteousness by works of the law.
You say Christians are still in sin (in spite of the cross).

If believers are complete in Christ (Col 2:10) why do you then doubt this and instead judge righteousness based on some ambiguous minimum standard of obedience to the law?

 

[kardiaoangelous]

Originally Posted by svedbygrace
ps
It does not matter, man is not saved by doing spiritual works either ! In fact, the natural man cannot do anything pleasing to God period, not even believe or have faith !





Acts 10:34-48

34Then Peter began to speak to them: “I truly understand that God shows no partiality, 35but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him. 36You know the message he sent to the people of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ—he is Lord of all. 37That message spread throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John announced: 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power; how he went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him. 39We are witnesses to all that he did both in Judea and in Jerusalem. They put him to death by hanging him on a tree; 40but God raised him on the third day and allowed him to appear, 41not to all the people but to us who were chosen by God as witnesses, and who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. 42He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one ordained by God as judge of the living and the dead. 43All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

44While Peter was still speaking, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard the word. 45The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles, 46for they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter said, 47“Can anyone withhold the water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48So he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they invited him to stay for several days.

What we are really told is not to believe in our own works doing those works but to believe in Christ's works and do his works which are assured to be the righteousness of God.

That is the message we ought to not obscure.

 

[Bookreader]

Are you having trouble understanding the fact the sacrifices were never an atonement? Because the text I showed you says that.

So,where Gods says

Exodus 29:36 And you shall offer a bull every day as a sin offering for atonement.

You're saying God is lying?

What about the other 75 times 'atonement' is used in the Torah?
Are they wrong too?

I think you're reading Hebrews wrong. Atonement is not the removal of sins. It is the reconciliation between God and man. Hebrews says sacrifice could not remove sins.
I imagine the writer of Hebrews wasn't ignoring the Torah. Though you apparently think it was all lies that God told the priests to do.

What Hebrews is showing (and states clearly a few verses earlier) is that the temple sacrifices had to be continuous because sacrifices did not make the person perfect. There was atonement. But it did not cover us eternally. So new sins committed thereafter required new sacrifices. Do you not see that? Are you so intent on seeing an attack from the writer against the Torah that you've made one up?

Christ's sacrifice allowed us to be covered and in Him we are seen as perfect in the eyes of God. It is a perfect sacrifice and so does not need to be repeated.

 

[homwardbound]

I explain that in my thread on Reconciliation !

Its a yes or no ? so yes or no

Re: It is finished.

Originally Posted by homwardbound

so tell us how does one get saved? or are all already saved?



​

 

[homwardbound]

hom



Then believing is a work if you believe it Is an act of man ? Yes or no..

slice or dice any way you want the fact remains the same God first loived us and once one sees this then we loive back as we are loved and without belief we can't love, it makes no differance if it is a work or not it is waht it is

 

[homwardbound]

If you believe or anyone else for that matter, believe God saves you because you believed, you believe in salvation by works. Believing is an act performed by man !!

Wow you are good at splitting hairs, waht is it you are trying to say to us here that we can't be saved that if we believe that is a woirk of the flesh therefore God has not accepted the beleiver? Youare confusing please explain because you are not clear.

 

[loveme1]

No offence and all, but I have a lot to learn? Did you read your Bible lately? Or are you just trying to put words into God's mouth? I don't know about you, but I'd rather listen to God word, than mans. Because it's better to have faith in God, than to trust man. And please, don't judge me based on my age. I may be young, but God never said anything about age being a limit to His righteousness. God bless you, and hope you have a nice day. And btw, just because you have more years of experience than me, doesn't mean you're more informed. Just putting it out there.

Yes, Elizabeth you do and if you continue trying to teach what you have yet to learn your heart will harden i share this by my own experience one must eat lots of humble pie.

I consider the Amplified Bible is fueling much of what you are offering us.

We are all here to learn together regardless of age, if you set that zeal for the Glory of God and His Truth then wonderful and so be it.

 

[homwardbound]

hom



It has a lot to do with it. The scripture teaches against salvation by works, its by Grace. God through Christ should get all the Glory for Salvation, not God and man !

God does and how you can twist the word is awesome and deceiving, so therefore by what you just said you do not believe nor do you believe, one thing left believing in self. you have been posted scripture after scripture many and there are many more that show us all that without belief we are still in our sins and I make no excuse for sin.
You are soundiing like the serpent back at the Garden of Eden, Did God really say this and Eve responded and the serpent created doubt and by the doubt Eve and Adam partook, what are you saying?

 

[homwardbound]

hom



This verse tells us what men in the flesh cannot do. and anyone who is not born of the Spirit is in the flesh, period ! Faith pleases God, and nobody who has not been born again can have Faith in God. Why ?

Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

I am elated to th e hilt that by the resurrection of Christ at the cross I am born again and allthse that believe what Christ did the reside their Faith in this are also born again, Flesh is dead and we are held alive by the promised Holy Ghost. holy Spirit of truth upholding our dead flesh and blood totally new and are exceedingly thankful for such an amazing salvation gift in response to God by Christ his son. It is amazing come have fellowship with us and all the Saints. We are waiting in love from God via the cross, come have fellowship wuth us it is exciting, wonderful and forever righteous in the sight of God the Father via the death, first, then the burailas proof of the death, then the resurrection which is the completed Gospel becasue woithout this part it would not be complete, and we could not be born again and without being bornagain by the resurrection we can not serve God in Spirit and truth as what is required today

1. John 4:23
   But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
   John 4:22-24 (in Context) John 4 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
2. John 4:24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
   John 4:23-25 (in Context) John 4 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
3. John 14:17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
   John 14:16-18 (in Context) John 14 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
4. John 16:13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
   John 16:12-14 (in Context) John 16 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
5. Ephesians 5:9(For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth
   Ephesians 5:8-10 (in Context) Ephesians 5 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
6. 2 Thessalonians 2:13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

 

[homwardbound]

"it is the work of God that we believe in the one he sent"

These are Christ's own words.. It is not our work, it is his work. thus belief is not a works based salvation/

We are saved by faith. period.. if faith or belief is a work, then no one will be saved.

Thanks ET but so far all I see from savedbygrace is a culmination talking out of two sides of his mouth, saying one thing we reply and then he comes out with something else which is to cause doubt in the believer, and it does not matter whether he is doing this on purpose or not, this is what so far he is purportin to us again it does not matter whether he is doing this on purpose or not, it is waht he is stating and causing division(s) and Paul wrned us in 1 cor. not to have divisions, and be careful and he also wrtote to Galatians about how they recieved the holy Ghost by belief or works, which seperates belief not being a work