Mystery, Babylon the Great - earthly Jerusalem?

[zone]

so you call it 'desperation' to insist on interpreting scripture according to what it -actually says- as opposed to what you -wish it says-?

what a joke! read it. i can't help it if you don't understand it the city where the Lord was Crucified - JERUSALEM. simple.

like your eisegesis that Mystery Babylon must be some nebulous timeless-world-church-mystical thing, because SINCE Jesus was crucified (according to Law) outside the camp of the Israelites - JERUSALEM - He was not crucified in Jerusalem.

according to you.
talk about Historcial Revisionism and Denial...eh.

God isn't sloppy in his use of language...he didn't inspire ezekiel and john to choose specific and -different- words just so that 2,000 years later you could blur the lines and equivocate their words to pretend they are talking about the same thing...

so you could pretend they ARE NOT.

 

[zone]

some people are capable of realizing when they are embarrassing and discrediting themselves...evidently you aren't one of them...

no dear, you think you are embarrassing and discrediting me. but as i told you before - i don't care what you think.
nor your supporters on this matter....since they're of ellis' magic 70th week Dual Covenant rubbish.

i don't care what you think of me.....for the obvious reasons - one being the pretty much heretical denial of where Jesus was crucified - THE GREAT CITY. just denying what the Word says plainly.

 

[zone]

As this discussion is about mystery Babylon and not about how one is saved I must ask why stray from the topic? Can you show us where someone in this thread other then you said If not then why derail the thread by changing the subject? Is it because of your inability to admit your error you feel the need to use the despicable tactic of misrepresenting (I.E. lying about) what some one else believes in order to confuse the issue and take the focus off your Scripturally bankrupt argument?

Zone you say mystery Babylon is Jerusalem. Scripture tells us Jerusalem is a holy city.
Neh_11:1 And the rulers of the people dwelt at Jerusalem: the rest of the people also cast lots, to bring one of ten to dwell in Jerusalem the holy city, and nine parts to dwell in other cities.
Dan_9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Rev_11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

So I ask Zone could “MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH” be holy? If not then how could mystery Babylon be the holy city Jerusalem? After all if the holy city of Jerusalem is (as you say) Babylon then wouldn’t that also make Babylon a holy city?


Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Zone did Jerusalem exist when Cain slew Abel? Does Jerusalem contain the blood of those killed in the recent attack that occurred in the mall in Kenya? If not then how could Babylon be a literal city? Is there any literal city that has existed from the time Cain slew Abel that still exists today and on into our future?

who is Mystery Babylon for you dolous?

 

[zone]

It wasn't just about 70AD nor is it just about a future place. For the following verse to be true Babylon cannot be constrained by time or location.

Rev 18:24And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
For Babylon to contain the blood of all slain upon the earth she had to exist from the time Cain slew Abel on into our future when the last person to be slain upon the earth is slain. This effectively rules out the possibility that Babylon is a literal city.

who is she then:

Rev 18:24And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

 

[zone]

just astounding that anyone can even do a cursory reading of the Gospels themselves and not know what Revelation is talking about.

incredible.

 

[zone]

Mystery
Come out of her, my people,
lest you share in her sins,
and lest you receive of her plagues.

Earthly
Then let those in Judea flee to the mountains,
let those who are in the midst of her depart,
and let not those who are in the country enter her.
For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.


~

Mystery Babylon
Revelation 18:23
"And the light of a lamp shall not shine in you anymore. And the voice of bridegroom and bride shall not be heard in you anymore.

Earthly Jerusalem
Jeremiah 7:34
"Then I will cause to cease from the cities of Judah and from the streets of Jerusalem the voice of mirth and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride. For the land shall be desolate."

.....

Mystery Babylon
Revelation 18:20
"Rejoice over her, O heaven, and you holy apostles and prophets, for God has avenged you on her!"

Revelation 18:24
"And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth."

Revelation 19:2
and He has avenged on her the blood of His servants shed by her.

Earthly Jerusalem
Luke 13:33
"Nevertheless I must journey today, tomorrow, and the day following; for it cannot be that a prophet should suffer outside of Jerusalem."

Matthew 23:34-38
"Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, "that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the alter. Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. O (earthly) Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! See! Your house is left to you desolate."

......

Mystery Babylon
Revelation 17:16-17
"And the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire. For God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled.

Revelation 18:8
"Therefore her plagues will come in one day-- death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges her."

Revelation 18:19
Alas, alas, that great city, in which all who had ships on the sea became rich by her wealth! For in one hour she is made desolate.

Revelation 18:4
And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues."

Earthly Jerusalem
Luke 19:42-44
"If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. For the days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you and close you in on every side, and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation."

Luke 21:20-23
"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. Then let those in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people."

Luke 21:31-33
"So you, likewise, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near. Assuredly, I say to you this generation will by no means pass away till all things are fulfilled. Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away."

Matthew 24:15-25
"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,'spoken of through the prophet Daniel--let the reader understand-- then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house. Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak. For then there will be great tribulation, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now--and never to be equaled again. See, I have told you ahead of time.

PLEASE LIST MYSTERY BABYLON CANDIDATES USING THE SCRIPTURES.

 

[zone]

Deuteronomy 29
14“Now not with you alone am I making this covenant and this oath,15but both with those who stand here with us today in the presence of the LORD our God and with those who are not with us here today16(for you know how we lived in the land of Egypt, and how we came through the midst of the nations through which you passed;17moreover, you have seen their abominations and their idols of wood, stone, silver, and gold, which they had with them);18so that there will not be among you a man or woman, or family or tribe, whose heart turns away today from the LORD our God, to go and serve the gods of those nations; that there will not be among you a root bearing poisonous fruit and wormwood.19“It shall be when he hears the words of this curse, that he will boast, saying, ‘I have peace though I walk in the stubbornness of my heart in order to destroy the watered land with the dry.’20“The LORD shall never be willing to forgive him, but rather the anger of the LORD and His jealousy will burn against that man, and every curse which is written in this book will rest on him, and the LORD will blot out his name from under heaven.21“Then the LORD will single him out for adversity from all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the covenant which are written in this book of the law.

22“Now the generation to come, your sons who rise up after you and the foreigner who comes from a distant land, when they see the plagues of the land and the diseases with which the LORD has afflicted it, will say,23‘All its land is brimstone and salt, a burning waste, unsown and unproductive, and no grass grows in it, like the overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboiim, which the LORD overthrew in His anger and in His wrath.’24“All the nations will say, ‘Why has the LORD done thus to this land? Why this great outburst of anger?’25“Then men will say, ‘Because they forsook the covenant of the LORD, the God of their fathers, which He made with them when He brought them out of the land of Egypt.26‘They went and served other gods and worshiped them, gods whom they have not known and whom He had not allotted to them.27‘Therefore, the anger of the LORD burned against that land, to bring upon it every curse which is written in this book;28and the LORD uprooted them from their land in anger and in fury and in great wrath, and cast them into another land, as it is this day.’


Revelation 17
1Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the judgment of the great prostitute who is seated on many waters, 2with whom the kings of the earth have committed sexual immorality, and with the wine of whose sexual immorality the dwellers on earth have become drunk.” 3And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness, and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was full of blasphemous names, and it had seven heads and ten horns. 4The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and jewels and pearls, holding in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the impurities of her sexual immorality. 5And on her forehead was written a name of mystery: “Babylon the great, mother of prostitutes and of earth’s abominations.” 6And I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.

~

Isaiah 1
1The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah.

The Wickedness of Judah
2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth;
for the LORD has spoken:
“Childrena have I reared and brought up,
but they have rebelled against me.
3 The ox knows its owner,
and the donkey its master’s crib,
but Israel does not know,
my people do not understand.”

4 Ah, sinful nation,
a people laden with iniquity,
offspring of evildoers,
children who deal corruptly!
They have forsaken the LORD,
they have despised the Holy One of Israel,
they are utterly estranged.

5 Why will you still be struck down?
Why will you continue to rebel?
The whole head is sick,
and the whole heart faint.
6 From the sole of the foot even to the head,
there is no soundness in it,
but bruises and sores
and raw wounds;
they are not pressed out or bound up
or softened with oil.

7 Your country lies desolate;
your cities are burned with fire;
in your very presence
foreigners devour your land;
it is desolate, as overthrown by foreigners.
8 And the daughter of Zion is left
like a booth in a vineyard,
like a lodge in a cucumber field,
like a besieged city.

9 If the LORD of hosts
had not left us a few survivors,
we should have been like Sodom,
and become like Gomorrah.

10 Hear the word of the LORD,
you rulers of Sodom!
Give ear to the teachingb of our God,
you people of Gomorrah!

 

[zone]

Jeremiah 23
13 In the prophets of Samaria
I saw an unsavory thing:
they prophesied by Baal
and led my people Israel astray.

14 But in the prophets of Jerusalem
I have seen a horrible thing:
they commit adultery and walk in lies;
they strengthen the hands of evildoers,
so that no one turns from his evil;
all of them have become like Sodom to me,
and its inhabitants like Gomorrah.”


Romans 9
27And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved, 28for the Lord will carry out his sentence upon the earth fully and without delay.” 29And as Isaiah predicted,

“If the Lord of hosts had not left us offspring,
we would have been like Sodom
and become like Gomorrah.”


Isaiah 1:9
If the LORD of hosts had not left us a few survivors, we should have been like Sodom, and become like Gomorrah.


Revelation 11
1Then I was given a measuring rod like a staff, and I was told, “Rise and measure the temple of God and the altar and those who worship there, 2but do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months. 3And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.”

4These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. 5And if anyone would harm them, fire pours from their mouth and consumes their foes. If anyone would harm them, this is how he is doomed to be killed. 6They have the power to shut the sky, that no rain may fall during the days of their prophesying, and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague, as often as they desire. 7And when they have finished their testimony, the beast that rises from the bottomless pita will make war on them and conquer them and kill them, 8 and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.

 

[zone]

Jeremiah 4
30 And you, O desolate one,
what do you mean that you dress in scarlet,
that you adorn yourself with ornaments of gold,
that you enlarge your eyes with paint?
In vain you beautify yourself.
Your lovers despise you;
they seek your life.

31 For I heard a cry as of a woman in labor,
anguish as of one giving birth to her first child,
the cry of the daughter of Zion gasping for breath,
stretching out her hands,
“Woe is me! I am fainting before murderers.”

Luke 11
46But He said, "Woe to you lawyers as well! For you weigh men down with burdens hard to bear, while you yourselves will not even touch the burdens with one of your fingers. 47"Woe to you! For you build the tombs of the prophets, and it was your fathers who killed them. 48"So you are witnesses and approve the deeds of your fathers; because it was they who killed them, and you build their tombs.


Revelation 17
4The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and jewels and pearls, holding in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the impurities of her sexual immorality. 5And on her forehead was written a name of mystery: “Babylon the great, mother of prostitutes and of earth’s abominations.” 6And I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.


Revelation 18
16 “Alas, alas, for the great city
that was clothed in fine linen,
in purple and scarlet,
adorned with gold,
with jewels, and with pearls!
17 For in a single hour all this wealth has been laid waste.”

 

[zone]

Lamentations 1
1 How lonely sits the city
that was full of people!

How like a widow has she become,
she who was great among the nations!
She who was a princess among the provinces
has become a slave.


Revelation 18
7 As she glorified herself and lived in luxury,
so give her a like measure of torment and mourning,
since in her heart she says,

‘I sit as a queen,
I am no widow,
and mourning I shall never see.’

8 For this reason her plagues will come in a single day,
death and mourning and famine,
and she will be burned up with fire;
for mighty is the Lord God who has judged her.”


Revelation 11
8and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.


PLEASE LIST CREDIBLE CANDIDATES HERE:














........

 

[zone]

Jeremiah 22
5But if you will not obey these words, I swear by myself, declares the LORD, that this house shall become a desolation. 6For thus says the LORD concerning the house of the king of Judah:

“‘You are like Gilead to me,
like the summit of Lebanon,
yet surely I will make you a desert,
an uninhabited city.

7 I will prepare destroyers against you,
each with his weapons,
and they shall cut down your choicest cedars
and cast them into the fire.

8“‘And many nations will pass by this city, and every man will say to his neighbor, “Why has the LORD dealt thus with this great city?” 9 And they will answer, “Because they have forsaken the covenant of the LORD their God and worshiped other gods and served them.”’”


Revelation 18
9And the kings of the earth, who committed sexual immorality and lived in luxury with her, will weep and wail over her when they see the smoke of her burning. 10They will stand far off, in fear of her torment, and say,

“Alas! Alas! You great city,
you mighty city, Babylon!
For in a single hour your judgment has come.”

 

[zone]

Revelation 17
“Come, I will show you the judgment of the great prostitute who is seated on many waters, 2with whom the kings of the earth have committed sexual immorality, and with the wine of whose sexual immorality the dwellers on earth have become drunk.” 3And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness, and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was full of blasphemous names, and it had seven heads and ten horns. 4The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and jewels and pearls, holding in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the impurities of her sexual immorality. 5And on her forehead was written a name of mystery: “Babylon the great, mother of prostitutes and of earth’s abominations.” 6And I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.


Revelation 18
“So will Babylon the great city be thrown down with violence,
and will be found no more;
22 and the sound of harpists and musicians, of flute players and trumpeters,
will be heard in you no more,
and a craftsman of any craft
will be found in you no more,
and the sound of the mill
will be heard in you no more,
23 and the light of a lamp
will shine in you no more,
and the voice of bridegroom and bride
will be heard in you no more,
for your merchants were the great ones of the earth,
and all nations were deceived by your sorcery.

24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints,
and of all who have been slain on earth.”


Luke 11
45One of the lawyers answered him, “Teacher, in saying these things you insult us also.” 46And he said, “Woe to you lawyers also! For you load people with burdens hard to bear, and you yourselves do not touch the burdens with one of your fingers. 47Woe to you! For you build the tombs of the prophets whom your fathers killed. 48So you are witnesses and you consent to the deeds of your fathers, for they killed them, and you build their tombs. 49Therefore also the Wisdom of God said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and persecute,’ 50so that the blood of all the prophets, shed from the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation, 51from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, it will be required of this generation. 52Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge. You did not enter yourselves, and you hindered those who were entering.”

"the blood of all the prophets, shed from the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation" < ABEL MUST HAVE BEEN A PROPHET ACCORDING TO JESUS in Luke.


Luke 13
31At that very hour some Pharisees came and said to him, “Get away from here, for Herod wants to kill you.” 32And he said to them, “Go and tell that fox, ‘Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I finish my course. 33Nevertheless, I must go on my way today and tomorrow and the day following, for it cannot be that a prophet should perish away from Jerusalem.’ 34O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not! 35Behold, your house is forsaken. And I tell you, you will not see me until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!’”


Matthew 23
29“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous, 30saying, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers. 33You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? 34Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, 35so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of innocent Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah,f whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

37“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not! 38See, your house is left to you desolate. 39For I tell you, you will not see me again, until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’”


Matthew 24
1Jesus left the temple and was going away, when his disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the temple. 2But he answered them, “You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.”

34Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.

.......

the blood of all the prophets, shed from the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation

THE ONE HE WAS STANDING THERE TALKING TO.
SINCE THERE ARE NO MORE PROPHETS, IT'S NOT A FUTURE ANYTHING.

 

[zone]

Luke 21
Jesus Foretells Destruction of Jerusalem
20“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart, and let not those who are out in the country enter it, 22for these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written. 23Alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! For there will be great distress upon the earth and wrath against this people. 24They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive among all nations, and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.


Luke 21:22

New International Version
For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.

New Living Translation
For those will be days of God's vengeance, and the prophetic words of the Scriptures will be fulfilled.

English Standard Version
for these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written.

New American Standard Bible
because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled.

King James Bible
For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
because these are days of vengeance to fulfill all the things that are written.

International Standard Version
because these are the days of vengeance when all that is written will be fulfilled.

NET Bible
because these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
These are the days of vengeance, to fulfill everything whatsoever that has been written.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
This will be a time of vengeance. Everything that is written about it will come true.

Jubilee Bible 2000
For these are days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

King James 2000 Bible
For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

American King James Version
For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

American Standard Version
For these are days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

Douay-Rheims Bible
For these are the days of vengeance, that all things may be fulfilled, that are written.

Darby Bible Translation
for these are days of avenging, that all the things that are written may be accomplished.

English Revised Version
For these are days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

Webster's Bible Translation
For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

Weymouth New Testament
For those are the days of vengeance and of fulfilling all that is written.

World English Bible
For these are days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

Young's Literal Translation
because these are days of vengeance, to fulfil all things that have been written.

...


All things which are written may be fulfilled - Judgment had been threatened by almost all the prophets against that wicked city. They had spoken of its crimes and threatened its ruin. Once God had destroyed Jerusalem and carried the people to Babylon; but their crimes had been repeated when they returned, and God had again threatened their ruin. Particularly was this very destruction foretold by Daniel, Daniel 9:26-27; "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself; and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined." - Barne's

...

For these be the days of vengeance,.... Of God's vengeance on the Jewish nation, for their rejection and crucifixion of the Messiah;
that all things which are written may be fulfilled; as in Moses and the prophets - Gill

...

20, 21. by armies—encamped armies, that is, besieged: "the abomination of desolation" (meaning the Roman ensigns, as the symbols of an idolatrous, pagan, unclean power) "spoken of by Daniel the prophet" (Da 9:27) "standing where it ought not" (Mr 13:14). "Whoso readeth [that prophecy] let him understand" (Mt 24:15).
Then … flee, &c.—Eusebius says the Christians fled to Pella, at the north extremity of Perea, being "prophetically directed"; perhaps by some prophetic intimation still more explicit than this, which still would be their chart. - JFBBC

...

 

[Deadtosin]

zone I have a question regarding this scripture.

Luke 13:33
"Nevertheless I must journey today, tomorrow, and the day following; for it cannot be that a prophet should suffer outside of Jerusalem."

Wasn't John the baptist beheaded outside of Jerusalem?

Biblical Archaeology Society Staff • 08/24/2012

This cutaway reconstruction of the Herodian Palace at Machaerus shows the splendor of the Dead Sea fortress described by Győző Vörös in the September/October issue of BAR. Herod the Great added luxurious renovations including a courtyard with a garden, a Roman-style bath, a triclinium for dining and a peristyle courtyard. This reconstruction, published here for the first time by the Biblical Archaeology Society, is courtesy of Győző Vörös and the Hungarian Academy of Arts. Click on the picture for full size.

Machaerus is the infamous setting of the beheading of John the Baptist. The historian Josephus corroborates a story from the Gospels in which John the Baptist condemned Herod Antipas’s marriage to his brother’s wife, Herodias. Herodias’s daughter Salome danced for her step-father, and when he offered to grant anything she asked, she demanded the beheading of John the Baptist. In “Machaerus: Where Salome Danced and John the Baptist Was Beheaded” in the September/October issue of Biblical Archaeology Review, excavation director Győző Vörös writes that “we can identify the very location of the party where Salome danced.”
While the beheading of John the Baptist lends the Herodian palace a special notoriety, Győző Vörös examines the archaeology and extended site history to show how the location of the Dead Sea fortress at Machaerus led to its special place in Herodian Judea. Looking across a longer expanse of history, the Hasmonean, Herodian and Zealot occupations at Machaerus tell the different stories of their respective periods, from regal luxury to the brutality of a Roman siege.

This reconstruction shows the peristyle courtyard at Machaerus, where Herod Antipas sat and watched the deadly dance of his step-daughter Salome. Author Győző Vörös told Bible History Daily that this reconstruction was based on details from the excavation, including “hundreds of fragments from the red tiled roof of the former Herodian royal palace.” This reconstruction, published here for the first time by the Biblical Archaeology Society, is courtesy of Győző Vörös and the Hungarian Academy of Arts. Click on the picture for full size.

Machaerus was the easternmost of Herod’s renovated palatial fortresses. While Vörös insightfully notes comparisons to the other fortresses, Machaerus stands out because of its location east of the River Jordan. Rising majestically above the Dead Sea (see the cover of the September/October issue of BAR), the fortress could be seen from as far north as Alexandrium and as far south as Masada, and smoke signals from the citadel were visible in Jerusalem

 

[doulos]

As this discussion is about mystery Babylon and not about how one is saved I must ask why stray from the topic? Can you show us where someone in this thread other then you saidIf not then why derail the thread by changing the subject? Is it because of your inability to admit your error you feel the need to use the despicable tactic of misrepresenting (I.E. lying about) what some one else believes in order to confuse the issue and take the focus off your Scripturally bankrupt argument?

Zone you say mystery Babylon is Jerusalem. Scripture tells us Jerusalem is a holy city.
Neh_11:1 And the rulers of the people dwelt at Jerusalem: the rest of the people also cast lots, to bring one of ten to dwell in Jerusalem the holy city, and nine parts to dwell in other cities.
Dan_9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Rev_11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

So I ask Zone could “MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH” be holy? If not then how could mystery Babylon be the holy city Jerusalem? After all if the holy city of Jerusalem is (as you say) Babylon then wouldn’t that also make Babylon a holy city?


Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Zone did Jerusalem exist when Cain slew Abel? Does Jerusalem contain the blood of those killed in the recent attack that occurred in the mall in Kenya? If not then how could Babylon be a literal city? Is there any literal city that has existed from the time Cain slew Abel that still exists today and on into our future?

who is Mystery Babylon for you dolous?

Kath I made my view clear in this POST <click
Kath would you be kind enough to answer the questions I asked (quoted above) in a clear concise manner, after all I am not really interested in walls and walls of Scripturally bankrupt propaganda that is designed to support the anti-Semitic view you promote.

Luv ya Sis!

 

[doulos]

It wasn't just about 70AD nor is it just about a future place. For the following verse to be true Babylon cannot be constrained by time or location.

Rev 18:24And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
For Babylon to contain the blood of all slain upon the earth she had to exist from the time Cain slew Abel on into our future when the last person to be slain upon the earth is slain. This effectively rules out the possibility that Babylon is a literal city.

who is she then:

Rev 18:24And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Apparently you haven’t been keeping up with the thread and instead prefer searching the internet and Scriptures in attempt to cherry pick verses and articles you can use to promote your hatred and contempt for the Jews. Unlike you and your walls of cherry picked Scripture and internet articles designed to promote condemnation and hatred of the Jews (while in many if not most cases being off topic) I did give my view, as well as refuting your Scripturally bankrupt propaganda designed to promote hatred, in a short and concise post located HERE Allow me to repeat it for your convenience.

“Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

While Babylon is called a city we must recognize that it is not a literal city. For it to be a literal city it would have to be in existence from the time Cain killed Abel until the last person on this earth to be slain is killed. There is no literal city that meets this requirement therefore it has be figurative language.

Jerusalem is a holy city.
Mat_4:5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
Mat_27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Is Babylon a holy city? No it isn’t! Does Jerusalem contain the blood of those slain in China, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, USA or anywhere else in the world that isn’t Jerusalem? No it doesn’t!

While it is true that Scripture tells us Jerusalem contains the blood of prophets Scripture does not say that Jerusalem contains the blood of all slain upon the earth. For her to contain the blood of all slain upon earth she cannot be constrained by time or geographic location. Therefore that great city must be representing something that covers the earth and spans time from when Cain slew Abel all the way into our future when the last person to be slain is killed. That effectively leaves out any literal city or any one religion.

I don’t claim to have all the answers but I think we would be better served by considering that she might possibly be all the false religions combined or some sort of system encompassing possibly greed, corruption, lust etc… that drives most of the world.

May God bless your studies!”


I’ll keep you in my prayers Kath! Luv ya Sis!

 

[zone]

Kath I made my view clear in this POST <click
Kath would you be kind enough to answer the questions I asked (quoted above) in a clear concise manner, after all I am not really interested in walls and walls of Scripturally bankrupt propaganda that is designed to support the anti-Semitic view you promote.

Luv ya Sis!

"the anti-Semitic view you (zone) promote" vs your (doulos) Dual Covenant heresy.
the antisemitic thing is old. but it sounds good propped up against your STUPID Dome of the Rock is the AOD.

with all things considered - including your impotent jew-hater card.... i'm not interested in discussion with you at all.
bye then.....

 

[zone]

zone I have a question regarding this scripture.

Luke 13:33
"Nevertheless I must journey today, tomorrow, and the day following; for it cannot be that a prophet should suffer outside of Jerusalem."

Wasn't John the baptist beheaded outside of Jerusalem?

guess you'll have to take it up with Jesus.
He's the One who kept saying the residents of Jerusalem-of-the-day (Scribes; Pharisees etc) were the descendants of the murderers of the prophets, and that they too would murder those Jesus was to send - The Apostles.

ask Jesus why He was unclear for you.

why this is unclear at all for so many - i can not say.

 

[zone]

I don’t claim to have all the answers but I think we would be better served by considering that she might possibly be all the false religions combined or some sort of system encompassing possibly greed, corruption, lust etc… that drives most of the world.

May God bless your studies!”
I’ll keep you in my prayers Kath! Luv ya Sis!

that's it?
you reject everything the Bible has to say for your imaginings?
no thanks.

see you on the flip side.

 

[vic1980]

I hope folks here read this i trully do, this is my final post on this thread...

There are none lead captive by the distruction of Mystery Babylon the Great period !!!

Jerusalem & her 1ST temple Jeremiah 52

The Temple and the City Burned

Now in the fifth month, in the tenth day of the month, which was the nineteenth year of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, came Nebuzaradan, captain of the guard, which served the king of Babylon, into Jerusalem, 13And burned the house of the LORD, and the king's house; and all the houses of Jerusalem, and all the houses of the great men, burned he with fire: 14And all the army of the Chaldeans, that were with the captain of the guard, brake down all the walls of Jerusalem round about. 15Then Nebuzaradan the captain of the guard carried away CAPTIVE certain of the poor of the people, and the residue of the people that remained in the city, and those that fell away, that fell to the King of Babylon,and the rest of the multitude.16But Nebuzaradan the captain of the guard left certain of the poor of the land for vinedressers and for husbandmen.

Summary

Nebuchadnezzar would lead his armies against Judah until they laid siege to Jerusalem for over a year, killing many people and destroying the Jewish temple, taking captive many thousands of Jews, and leaving Jerusalem in ruins.

Jerusalem & her 2 temple Luke 21

The Destruction of Jerusalem

20And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword , and shall be led CAPTIVE into all the nations : and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Summary:

In The Wars of the Jews, Book 6, Josephus notes that, on the eighth day of the of the Roman month Lous (Jewish month Ab), the ramps were finished and Titus ordered the battering-rams brought up and made ready for an assault on the Temple. With the battering-rams in place the Roman siege of Jerusalem, which began at Passover that year, would come to an end.

As soon as the walls were breached on the 9th of Ab in 70 A.D., a Roman military force of about 30,000 troops under the command of Titus marched into Jerusalem and began a systematic slaughter of the Jews and the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem—exactly as Jesus foretold 40 years earlier
The Romans brutally slaughtered an estimated 600,000 people in Jerusalem including many of the Passover visitors who had been trapped there for the 143 days during the Roman siege. Many of the people who were not killed by Roman soldiers were shipped off to the gladiatorial games, Roman mines, and otherwise exiled from Judea and scattered throughout the Roman empire and other nations.

Now Mystery Babylon the Great Revelation 18

Babylon is Fallen

1And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. 2And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 3For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4And I heard another voice from heaven,saying ,COME OUT OF HER , MY PEOPLE , that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remember her iniquities.For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remember her iniquities.6Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double. 7How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. 8 Therefore shall her plagues COME IN ONE DAY, death, and mourning , and famine ; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

Summary : There are none lead captive by the distruction of Mystery Babylon the Great period !!!

All that are in mystery babylon are destroyed ,not one lead away captive, i trully hope someone gets it.

God forgave Jerusalem for being a harlot , for chasing after Idols and turning to pagan worshiping , she had many Gods as she had towns Jeremiah 11:13, She played a harlot with egyptians, assyrians and others .As we review in Jeremiah & Isaiah God forgave her.

Isaiah 40

1Comfort ye, comfort ye my people , saith your God.

2Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned : for she hath received of the LORD'S hand double for all her sins.

3The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

4Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain:

5And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

We know this was John the baptise getting things prepared for the messiah, the temple had to be desolated due that it served its purpose, Our Lord went to the cross to draw all men to him, moses warned them of what was to come if they did not belive in that prophet.Jesus warned them what was to come. Mystery Babylon the Great ,is bigger than Jerusalem.

Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of ALL that were slain upon the earth.

Love you all God bless in Jesus mighty name

P.S.

Hebrew captive

1540. galah​

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galah: to uncover, remove​

Original Word: גָּלָה
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: galah
Phonetic Spelling: (gaw-law')
Short Definition: uncover

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Word Origin
a prim. root
Definition
to uncover, remove
NASB Translation
away into exile (2), banished (1), betray (1), captives (1), captivity (1), carried (1), carried and away (1), carried into exile (4), carried them into exile (3), carried them away into exile (2), carried them captive (1), carried away (14), carried away into exile (10), carried away to exile (1), carried away captive (1), carried...away into exile (4), carry them away as exiles (2), certainly go (3), certainly go into captivity (1), committed (1), depart (1), departed (3), deported (1), disappears (1), discloses (2), disclosing (1), exile (8), exiled (4), exiles (1), expose (2), exposed (3), go from you into exile (1), go into exile (6), go exiled (1), gone into exile (1), indeed reveal (1), inform* (1), known* (2), laid bare (3), lay bare (1), led him captive (1), led away (3), led away into exile (3), led...away into exile (2), lift (1), made (1), make (2), open (4), opened (1), opens (3), published (2), remove (1), removed (3), reported (1), reveal (5), reveal* (1), revealed (12), revealed* (2), revealing (1), reveals (4), revelation* (1), sent into exile (1), sent you into exile (2), set forth (1), shamelessly uncovers (1), show (1), strip off (1), stripped (1), taken (1), taken into exile (1), things revealed (1), uncover (22), uncovered (22), uncovers (1), went into exile (1).[/TD]
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Greek Captive

163. aichmalótizó​

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aichmalótizó: to take or lead captive​

Original Word: αἰχμαλωτίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: aichmalótizó
Phonetic Spelling: (aheekh-mal-o-tid'-zo)
Short Definition: I take captive, subdue, ensnare
Definition: I take captive (in war); I subdue, ensnare.

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Word Origin
from aichmalótos
Definition
to take or lead captive
NASB Translation
captivate (1), led captive (1), making...a prisoner (1), taking...captive (1).

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STRONGS NT 163: αἰχμαλωτίζω

αἰχμαλωτίζω; 1 future passive αἰχμαλωτισθήσομαι;
a. equivalent to αἰχμάλωτον ποιῶ, which the earlier Greeks use.
b. to lead away captive: followed by εἰς with the accusative of place, Luke 21:24 (1 Macc. 10:33; Tobit 1:10). c. figuratively, to subjugate, bring under control: 2 Corinthians 10:5 (on which passage see νόημα, 2); τινα τίνι, Romans 7:23 (yet T Tr א etc. insert ἐν before the dative); to take captive one's mind, captivate: γυναικάρια, 2 Timothy 3:6 (not Rec.) (Judith 16:9 τό κάλλος αὐτῆς ᾐχμαλώτισε ψυχήν αὐτοῦ). The word is used also in the Sept., Diodorus, Josephus, Plutarch, Arrian, Heliodorus; cf. Lob. ad Phryn., p. 442; (Winer's Grammar, 91 (87); Ellicott on 2 Timothy, the passage cited).



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lead away captive, bring into captivity. From aichmalotos; to make captive -- lead away captive, bring into captivity.[/TD]
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cap·tive
ˈkaptiv/
noun
noun: captive; plural noun: captives

• 1.
  a person who has been taken prisoner or an animal that has been confined.
  
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  [TD]prisoner, convict, detainee, inmate, abductee; Moreprisoner of war, POW, internee;
  informaljailbird, con, yardbird, lifer
  "release the captives"
  
  
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adjective
adjective: captive

• 1.
  imprisoned or confined.