So you spout a whole bunch of twisting Scripture, you get disproved at every turn, ignore all those replies then come back and tell me, "You're not obeying" How do you know anything I do in my life? You calim faith and love and then this, ok sure. You fruits expose you. How many people have you misled with your false doctrines and twisting of Scripture, you know teachers are held accountable. Why dont we all leave our egos aside and study Scripture as a whole and find truth?
Is the Hebrew Roots Movement a cult?
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Paul rote about which laws we are under. We, according to Paul are under the law of Christ. The mosaic laws have been fulfilled by Christ's death on the cross and that is way the curtain ripped in the temple.
I find it odd how you never point others forward. You direct others backward to the old covenant, not the new. Or am I wrong? You tell me.
I find it odd how you never point others forward. You direct others backward to the old covenant, not the new. Or am I wrong? You tell me.
No, RedTent. Another baseless accusation.
A friend of mine recently put it this way:
My dear friend, I am not saying that there is something evil about the Law.
When you "perform something of the Law, it needs faith to make it effective"?
Scripture, please. You keep saying your posts are "all about Scripture", yet in the last hundred posts or so, I've seen you post 2 verses. (Yes, I checked.)
So pony up with contextual Scripture to back up that claim.
Again, quote the actual Scriptural text. After seeing how you 'understand' posts and then regurgitate them on this forum, I'll take the actual texts and not your rendering of them, thank you very much.
And as for your statement, "An example is given in Isaiah. People had been told to sacrifice animals, they were told that in the same way we are told to go to Christ for forgiveness of sins."
No, we are not told that in the same way we go to Christ for the forgiveness of sins. Christ is not sacrificed over and over like the blood of bulls and goats; His Perfect Sacrifice was once for all people, for all time, for all sins.
To equate His Perfect Sacrifice with Old Covenant ritual is treating as an unholy thing the Blood of the New Covenant.
How exactly are dead people supposed to 'use' law?
Both Romans and Galatians clearly teach that those in Christ have died to the Law and are alive unto Christ.
The Law has nothing more to do with us.
-JGIG
A friend of mine recently put it this way:
My dear friend, I am not saying that there is something evil about the Law.
[*=1]By saying that the Law is “holy”, that word signifies that it is set apart for a special purpose, to show us our sin.
[*=1]By saying that the Law is “just”, that word signifies that God is just in condemning us to His wrath.
[*=1]By saying that the Law is “good”, that word signifies that the Law accomplishes the good purpose of showing us that in and of ourselves we can never accomplish all the demands of that law, and it thereby leads us to our need for Christ.
When you "perform something of the Law, it needs faith to make it effective"?
Scripture, please. You keep saying your posts are "all about Scripture", yet in the last hundred posts or so, I've seen you post 2 verses. (Yes, I checked.)
So pony up with contextual Scripture to back up that claim.
Again, quote the actual Scriptural text. After seeing how you 'understand' posts and then regurgitate them on this forum, I'll take the actual texts and not your rendering of them, thank you very much.
And as for your statement, "An example is given in Isaiah. People had been told to sacrifice animals, they were told that in the same way we are told to go to Christ for forgiveness of sins."
No, we are not told that in the same way we go to Christ for the forgiveness of sins. Christ is not sacrificed over and over like the blood of bulls and goats; His Perfect Sacrifice was once for all people, for all time, for all sins.
To equate His Perfect Sacrifice with Old Covenant ritual is treating as an unholy thing the Blood of the New Covenant.
How exactly are dead people supposed to 'use' law?
Both Romans and Galatians clearly teach that those in Christ have died to the Law and are alive unto Christ.
The Law has nothing more to do with us.
-JGIG
The letter to the Hebrews as a whole was all about the superiority of the New Covenant over the Old.
The change in Priesthood was key in that.
The change in Priesthood did not result in changes IN the Old Covenant (remember what you have been preaching . . . not one jot nor tittle shall fail), but a change OF the Covenant. The Old Covenant was rendered obsolete in Christ; as a functioning, covenantal system it was rendered inert - it's priesthood was ended.
It has not passed away, however, and still has a purpose - to point sinners to Christ.
That is the proper use of the Law.
-JGIG
The change in Priesthood was key in that.
The change in Priesthood did not result in changes IN the Old Covenant (remember what you have been preaching . . . not one jot nor tittle shall fail), but a change OF the Covenant. The Old Covenant was rendered obsolete in Christ; as a functioning, covenantal system it was rendered inert - it's priesthood was ended.
It has not passed away, however, and still has a purpose - to point sinners to Christ.
That is the proper use of the Law.
-JGIG
For those in Christ, absolutely. If it weren't so, we'd be just like anyone else in the world, with a works-based religion.
Personally, I accepted Christ as my Savior when I was eight. I understood that Jesus is Righteous; I am not, and that because I'm not righteous, I can never reach God, but that because Jesus is Righteous, and did the work to reach God for me, if I put my faith in His Work, in Him, I could reach God. That's the simplified eight-year-old understanding of how I came to Christ with the faith of a child. It made perfect sense to me then (it still does now, too!), and I said, "Sign me up!"
It really is that simple.
Passover had nothing to do with it - Christ has everything to do with it.
Does Passover serve a purpose?
Yes, it points to Christ.
For me personally, Passover did not play a part in my conversion as a child. As an adult, I can see how Passover foreshadows the Work of Christ. But I rest in Christ, not the shadows.
Messiah does not intercede on the basis of the Old Covenant, He intercedes on the basis if the New Covenant. The letter to the Hebrews details that truth very effectively.
It has, however, been rendered obsolete in Christ. Again, the letter to the Hebrews makes this abundantly clear.
-JGIG
Personally, I accepted Christ as my Savior when I was eight. I understood that Jesus is Righteous; I am not, and that because I'm not righteous, I can never reach God, but that because Jesus is Righteous, and did the work to reach God for me, if I put my faith in His Work, in Him, I could reach God. That's the simplified eight-year-old understanding of how I came to Christ with the faith of a child. It made perfect sense to me then (it still does now, too!), and I said, "Sign me up!"
It really is that simple.
Passover had nothing to do with it - Christ has everything to do with it.
Does Passover serve a purpose?
Yes, it points to Christ.
For me personally, Passover did not play a part in my conversion as a child. As an adult, I can see how Passover foreshadows the Work of Christ. But I rest in Christ, not the shadows.
Messiah does not intercede on the basis of the Old Covenant, He intercedes on the basis if the New Covenant. The letter to the Hebrews details that truth very effectively.
16 “The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing their way into it.
17 It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.
The Law is intact: it is a comprehensive unit; it has not disappeared.17 It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.
It has, however, been rendered obsolete in Christ. Again, the letter to the Hebrews makes this abundantly clear.
-JGIG
You overcomplicate and make the Gospel into no gospel at all.
Document one time where I or anyone else defending the Gospel of Grace has said that Grace is a way to get away with sinning. Just one.
You won't find one. We recognize that the Law stirs up sin as the Scriptures say and that Grace actually results in sinning less and less.
Sinning more or less is not the focus, however, but the fruit of Grace, because the less focused we become on ourselves (which is what Law does), the more focused we become on Christ (which is what Grace does) and when we are focused on Christ, sinning becomes less and less in our lives.
Simple.
-JGIG
Document one time where I or anyone else defending the Gospel of Grace has said that Grace is a way to get away with sinning. Just one.
You won't find one. We recognize that the Law stirs up sin as the Scriptures say and that Grace actually results in sinning less and less.
Sinning more or less is not the focus, however, but the fruit of Grace, because the less focused we become on ourselves (which is what Law does), the more focused we become on Christ (which is what Grace does) and when we are focused on Christ, sinning becomes less and less in our lives.
Simple.
-JGIG
Yes, and you continue to ignore context when interpreting the meaning of a word.
And as clearly stated in my post, even if you go with your definition of 'end', "the end goal, purpose", Christ is the end goal of the Law, it points to/leads to Christ - where it ends - not the other way around. You're proceeding as if the Law is the end goal of Christ - that the Law ends up as the focus of Christ, when that isn't the case at all.
-JGIG
And as clearly stated in my post, even if you go with your definition of 'end', "the end goal, purpose", Christ is the end goal of the Law, it points to/leads to Christ - where it ends - not the other way around. You're proceeding as if the Law is the end goal of Christ - that the Law ends up as the focus of Christ, when that isn't the case at all.
-JGIG
None of the verses I quoted are the "there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus" verse. That's found in Romans 8:1. Great verse, though!
No, the verses I quoted are ones that say that in Christ we are the very righteousness of God and that in Christ we are Holy. And the Law was not given to the righteous, but to the unrighteous. Look them up: 2 Cor. 5:16-21. Romans 5. Hebrews 10.
AGAIN, you are universally defining God's law/commandments as the laws given to Israel at Sinai. There were commandments before Sinai and there were commandments after Sinai.
God's commandments after Sinai? Believe on the One God has sent and love one another. (1 Jn. 3:23)
In the very next chapter we read this:
No, the verses I quoted are ones that say that in Christ we are the very righteousness of God and that in Christ we are Holy. And the Law was not given to the righteous, but to the unrighteous. Look them up: 2 Cor. 5:16-21. Romans 5. Hebrews 10.
AGAIN, you are universally defining God's law/commandments as the laws given to Israel at Sinai. There were commandments before Sinai and there were commandments after Sinai.
God's commandments after Sinai? Believe on the One God has sent and love one another. (1 Jn. 3:23)
In the very next chapter we read this:
13 By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16 So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
17 By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment,
because as he is so also are we in this world.
18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love. 19 We love because he first loved us. (from 1 Jn. 4)
-JGIG17 By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment,
because as he is so also are we in this world.
18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love. 19 We love because he first loved us. (from 1 Jn. 4)