How holy do you think Mary's womb could be?

[Simona25]

why is there always such a response to anything that allows us to call other christians heretics? why not more focus on how to live as followers of christ?

It's because people already have pre-fabricated ideas and concepts on the topic, that's why! People don't read your messages, they are not here to learn and hear what you believe, but to spit on your faith. What you hold as pure and beautiful, they urinate on it, mercyless. Even if they would stop, other people will come and do the same and other people like me will try (in vain) to stop them and so on. It is all a waste of time and energy.

Ironically (or not), on the thread called "The gift of the holy laughter" people are more precautious with their comments (who knows? maybe the manifestations of the Holy Spirit are indeed histerical laughter, foaming at the mouth, shaking and falling on the ground etc.) while on this thread everybody is confident in himself and his stereotypes regarding Mary.

One more thing: have you noticed that these kind of threads (St. Mary, the cross etc.) are always started by the neoprotestants and not by the traditional christians? Just like those about Saturday vs Sunday are almost always started by the sabbatarians.

 

[crossnote]

Simona, this is why I brought up the matter of Bible/Tradition earlier. This is "Bible" Forum, so you can only expect that a teaching based on Church Tradition and not Scripture will get 'jumped on'. You are right though about some of the double standards when it comes to non biblical Protestant 'Traditions'...great point.

 

[Maynard]

Well, how about this...

Mat 1:24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
Mat 1:25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

John,
Consider this line: "Michal the daughter of Saul had no children till the day of her death" (2 Sam. 6:23). Are we to assume she had children after her death?

There is also the burial of Moses. The book of Deuteronomy says that no one knew the location of his grave "until this present day" (Deut. 34:6, Knox). But we know that no one has known since that day either.

The examples could be multiplied, but you get the idea—nothing can be proved from the use of the word "till" in Matthew 1:25. Recent translations give a better sense of the verse: "He had no relations with her at any time before she bore a son" (New American Bible); "He had not known her when she bore a son" (Knox).


Source; "knew her not till"

 

[ForthAngel]

It's because people already have pre-fabricated ideas and concepts on the topic, that's why! People don't read your messages, they are not here to learn and hear what you believe, but to spit on your faith. What you hold as pure and beautiful, they urinate on it, mercyless. Even if they would stop, other people will come and do the same and other people like me will try (in vain) to stop them and so on. It is all a waste of time and energy.

Ironically (or not), on the thread called "The gift of the holy laughter" people are more precautious with their comments (who knows? maybe the manifestations of the Holy Spirit are indeed histerical laughter, foaming at the mouth, shaking and falling on the ground etc.) while on this thread everybody is confident in himself and his stereotypes regarding Mary.

One more thing: have you noticed that these kind of threads (St. Mary, the cross etc.) are always started by the neoprotestants and not by the traditional christians? Just like those about Saturday vs Sunday are almost always started by the sabbatarians.

You have done this very thing:

We don't honor those that are outside of the Church.

What church?

I agree that there is only one church. But this church is visible and it is the Eastern Orthodox Church (my belief).

The church on earth (the fighting church) is visible and it was born in East. The church in heaven (the victorious church) is invisible and St. Mary and the saints are part of the triumphant church.

I don't believe that God is a God of disorder and division: and this is exactly what has happened in western christianity - they have lost the guidance of the Holy Spirit (who unites) and because of this loss, the western christianity, whether catholic, protestant or neoprotestant, has fallen into religions.

In other words, you DO NOT worship Jesus Christ, although you claim to believe that He is both God and man. [an accusation made by yourself in response to my description and understanding of the Trinity]

I apologize to the OP for this off-topic, but I wanted to have a suspicion cleared up. The western christianity (except for the catholics and the protestants) NO LONGER worship Jesus Christ. This is a real tragedy!!! Not that a catholic woman pray with a rosary or whatever, but that people, unconsciously, don't worship Christ! This is apostasy!

You do not worship Jesus Christ.
I didn't twist nothing. Everything that you said aligns perfectly with the confusion in your head about what attitude should we have towards Christ. [again, your accusation in response to how I understand the Trinity, albeit probably limited]

You have effectively condemned myself and all of Christendom, outside of the Eastern Orthodox church, in just a few short posts. Maybe you should take some time to check on your own prefabricated ideas before making such harsh accusations.

 

[Patnubay]

You have done this very thing:

What church?

You have effectively condemned myself and all of Christendom, outside of the Eastern Orthodox church, in just a few short posts. Maybe you should take some time to check on your own prefabricated ideas before making such harsh accusations.

Good research, ForthAngel,

Moral of the story: Be careful of what you post.

( A lesson I need to learn )​

 

[ForthAngel]

Good research, ForthAngel,

Moral of the story: Be careful of what you post.

( A lesson I need to learn )​

Me too. I don't think anyone here is innocent of this, most especially myself. I was still having trouble in my faith (majorly) when I first found the site, but some of us gotta learn the hard way, right? I'm still learning it. I wasn't trying to pick on Simona either, so I hope no one takes it that way, including herself.

 

[Simona25]

You have done this very thing:



What church?











You have effectively condemned myself and all of Christendom, outside of the Eastern Orthodox church, in just a few short posts. Maybe you should take some time to check on your own prefabricated ideas before making such harsh accusations.

How come I have done the very same thing? Those are my comments from the other thread about St. Mary (which, of course, was started by a neoprotestant).
I don't have pre-fabricated ideas: I believe and confess that the Eastern Orthodox Church is the One, Holy, Apostolical and Universal Church, and not even if an angel came to teach me another gospel, I wouldn't leave my Church. That's what I believe. I didn't condemn anyone, I simply told you and I'll repeat it to you as much as it's needed: you do not worship Jesus Christ as God! You are not a christian. Like it or not, this is the truth.

 

[Simona25]

Good research, ForthAngel,

Moral of the story: Be careful of what you post.

( A lesson I need to learn )​

It's disgusting how people rip and cut your words out of a context to fit a certain purpose.

 

[Patnubay]

It's disgusting how people rip and cut your words out of a context to fit a certain purpose.

Yes, I agree with you. But like I said, we should be careful with what we post because once it's in there, anybody can do anything.

And this one is disgusting too to say to a fellow Christian, don't you think?

That's what I believe. I didn't condemn anyone, I simply told you and I'll repeat it to you as much as it's needed: you do not worship Jesus Christ as God! You are not a christian. Like it or not, this is the truth.

1 John 4:7
New King James Version (NKJV)
Knowing God Through Love

7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.

 

[Simona25]

Yes, I agree with you. But like I said, we should be careful with what we post because once it's in there, anybody can do anything.

When I post and comment I imagine that people here are honest and read my comments in the real context, not in a fabricated one. It never occured to me that someone could cut the dialogue that I had with the user Drett who - revolted that I honor the saints and supra-honor St. Mary - asked me how do I honor the Pope; to which I told him that "we do not honor those that are outside of the church". We don't honor the catholic popes, the prophet of islam, Joseph Smith etc. Is that offensive?

And this one is disgusting too to say to a fellow Christian, don't you think?

No, not at all! Telling the truth is not disgusting. Compromising the truth for the sake of a fake peace, that's disgusting. Muslims respect Jesus, but they don't worship him as God. They are not christians. Does this mean that I hate them? No. I'm stating a truth, a reality.
Who doesn't worship Christ as God, isn't a christian!

 

[ForthAngel]

When I post and comment I imagine that people here are honest and read my comments in the real context, not in a fabricated one. It never occured to me that someone could cut the dialogue that I had with the user Drett who - revolted that I honor the saints and supra-honor St. Mary - asked me how do I honor the Pope; to which I told him that "we do not honor those that are outside of the church". We don't honor the catholic popes, the prophet of islam, Joseph Smith etc. Is that offensive?


No, not at all! Telling the truth is not disgusting. Compromising the truth for the sake of a fake peace, that's disgusting. Muslims respect Jesus, but they don't worship him as God. They are not christians. Does this mean that I hate them? No. I'm stating a truth, a reality.
Who doesn't worship Christ as God, isn't a christian!

Nothing I quoted you on was out of context. They were full posts made by yourself. I also posted them in the order they were written. Anyone can follow the link to get the posts they were in response to and see that they mean exactly what you meant them to mean.

And for the record, I never said I didn't believe Jesus wasn't God, or didn't worship him as God. My examples of how I pray/worship, were words directly from how the bible describes Jesus and how worship and prayer works (by Jesus' own command and example btw). You claim I don't worship Jesus and have no problem spewing your venom that I don't.

As for condemning the church. Yes, you condemned all of those outside of the Eastern Orthodox Church and concluded them all as non-christians. Your words, not mine.

 

[john832]

John,
Consider this line: "Michal the daughter of Saul had no children till the day of her death" (2 Sam. 6:23). Are we to assume she had children after her death?

There is also the burial of Moses. The book of Deuteronomy says that no one knew the location of his grave "until this present day" (Deut. 34:6, Knox). But we know that no one has known since that day either.

The examples could be multiplied, but you get the idea—nothing can be proved from the use of the word "till" in Matthew 1:25. Recent translations give a better sense of the verse: "He had no relations with her at any time before she bore a son" (New American Bible); "He had not known her when she bore a son" (Knox).


Source; "knew her not till"

Well, she did not have children after she died, but Mary did not die, she went on to consummate the marriage with Joseph and have other sons and daughters...

Mat 13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
Mat 13:56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?

Now if verse 55 is referring to cousins (you are sure to say this) why isn't John the Baptist mentioned? He was much more prominent than Christ's BROTHERS and was a true cousin.

 

[crossnote]

You have done this very thing:

You have effectively condemned myself and all of Christendom, outside of the Eastern Orthodox church, in just a few short posts. Maybe you should take some time to check on your own prefabricated ideas before making such harsh accusations.

But the difference is you are taking it personal. Simona was going after groups and movements and their teachings not any individual.

 

[crossnote]

You have done this very thing:

You have effectively condemned myself and all of Christendom, outside of the Eastern Orthodox church, in just a few short posts. Maybe you should take some time to check on your own prefabricated ideas before making such harsh accusations.

But the difference is you are taking it personal. Simona was going after groups and movements and their teachings not any individual.

 

[ForthAngel]

But the difference is you are taking it personal. Simona was going after groups and movements and their teachings not any individual.

In other words, you DO NOT worship Jesus Christ, although you claim to believe that He is both God and man.

You do not worship Jesus Christ.
I didn't twist nothing. Everything that you said aligns perfectly with the confusion in your head about what attitude should we have towards Christ.

These two were unprovoked personal attacks on myself. She puts words in my mouth and came to her own conclusion for the state of my soul and my heart. When called out on it, she responds with this:

No, not at all! Telling the truth is not disgusting. Compromising the truth for the sake of a fake peace, that's disgusting. Muslims respect Jesus, but they don't worship him as God. They are not christians. Does this mean that I hate them? No. I'm stating a truth, a reality.
Who doesn't worship Christ as God, isn't a christian!

Her post at the top:

It's because people already have pre-fabricated ideas and concepts on the topic, that's why! People don't read your messages, they are not here to learn and hear what you believe, but to spit on your faith. What you hold as pure and beautiful, they urinate on it, mercyless. Even if they would stop, other people will come and do the same and other people like me will try (in vain) to stop them and so on. It is all a waste of time and energy.

Is it ok for her to live by a double standard and me not defend myself? Her accusations are pretty serious. At the same time, she doesn't even realize every description I gave of prayer and worship were straight from scripture, while she has blatantly idolized Mary and denies it. Again, she effectively condemns every denomination other than her own and concludes them all as non-christians. It's whatever though. I'll leave it alone.

 

[crossnote]

These two were unprovoked personal attacks on myself. She puts words in my mouth and came to her own conclusion for the state of my soul and my heart. When called out on it, she responds with this:



Her post at the top:



Is it ok for her to live by a double standard and me not defend myself? Her accusations are pretty serious. At the same time, she doesn't even realize every description I gave of prayer and worship were straight from scripture, while she has blatantly idolized Mary and denies it. Again, she effectively condemns every denomination other than her own and concludes them all as non-christians. It's whatever though. I'll leave it alone.

This may be all true, but being the 'Christian with the truth', don't you think the high ground is better? Or is an eye for an eye better?
I'm preaching to myself too.

 

[ForthAngel]

This may be all true, but being the 'Christian with the truth', don't you think the high ground is better? Or is an eye for an eye better?
I'm preaching to myself too.

Nah. You're right crossnote, and I apologize.

 

[Simona25]

These two were unprovoked personal attacks on myself. She puts words in my mouth and came to her own conclusion for the state of my soul and my heart.

Don't exaggerate: I didn't say nothing about the state of your soul and heart. I only said that there was confusion in your head regarding who is Jesus Christ and why do we owe Him worship.

Is it ok for her to live by a double standard and me not defend myself? Her accusations are pretty serious. At the same time, she doesn't even realize every description I gave of prayer and worship were straight from scripture,

Straight from Scripture indeed. But, do you understand that the early church believed that Christ was God, therefore, they worshiped Him and were persecuted for doing so?

while she has blatantly idolized Mary and denies it.

Where did I blatantly idolized Mary?

Again, she effectively condemns every denomination other than her own and concludes them all as non-christians. It's whatever though.

Where did I condemn every denomination? Saying that those who don't worship Jesus Christ as God aren't christians, is not a condemnation. Why are you so shocked? Didn't you know that the christians worship Jesus Christ as God? Didn't you know that He is the Divine Logos? I am also under shock that people call themselves christians, but don't worship Jesus Christ. It's weird. I can understand why muslims don't worship Him (because they believe He was a mere prophet), but those so-called christians that recognize that He is the Son of God (but not God the Son)...those, I don't understand.

I'll leave it alone.

Good.

 

[ForthAngel]

Why are you so shocked? Didn't you know that the christians worship Jesus Christ as God? Didn't you know that He is the Divine Logos? I am also under shock that people call themselves christians, but don't worship Jesus Christ.

You are so presumptuous. I never said I denied Christ as God or didn't worship him. I told you I worshiped according to scriptural example. You added emphasis and made up your own mind about me, as you have done with entire congregations.

 

[Simona25]

And for the record, I never said I didn't believe Jesus wasn't God, or didn't worship him as God. My examples of how I pray/worship, were words directly from how the bible describes Jesus and how worship and prayer works (by Jesus' own command and example btw). You claim I don't worship Jesus and have no problem spewing your venom that I don't.

May God help us all that we pray and worship Him continuously, not only when we pray and worship Him.