What did the Jew receive first?

[crossnote]

I didn't choose that definition. It is out of the Strong's concordance.

Again here is what it says.
3466. musterion moos-tay'-ree-on from a derivative of muo (to shut the mouth); a secret or "mystery" (through the idea of silence imposed by initiation into religious rites):--mystery.

28. 77 μυστηριον ου n:the content of that which has not been known before but which has been revealed to an in- group or restricted constituency- secret, mystery. υμιν δεδοται γνωναι τα μυστηρια τησ βασιλειασ των ουρανων the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you MAT. 13:11. There is a serious problem involved in translating μυστηριον by a word which is equivalent to the English expression mystery, for this term in English refers to a secret which people have tried to uncover but which they have failed to understand. In many instances μυστηριον is translated by a phrase meaning that which was not known before, with the implication of its being revealed at least to some persons. (LouwNida)

[3696] μυστηριον mysterion 28x a matter to the knowledge of which initiation is necessary; a secret which would remain such but for revelation, Mt. 3:11; Rom. 11:25; Col. 1:26; a concealed power or principle, 2 Thess. 2:7; a hidden meaning of a symbol, Rev. 1:20:17:7 (MED)

g3466. μυστηριον mysterion; from a derivative of μυω muo (to shut the mouth); a secret or “mystery” (through the idea of silence imposed by initiation into religious rites):— mystery.
AV (27)- mystery 27;
hidden thing, secret, mystery generally mysteries, religious secrets, confided only to the initiated and not to ordinary mortals a hidden or secret thing, not obvious to the understanding a hidden purpose or counsel secret will of men of God: the secret counsels which govern God in dealing with the righteous, which are hidden from ungodly and wicked men but plain to the godly .
in rabbinic writings, it denotes the mystic or hidden sense of an OT saying of an image or form seen in a vision of a dream (EXPANDED STRONGS)

But I'm sure the above will be discarded in favor of one's agenda.

 

[Elin]

The content of the divine mystery is painted in broad strokes in the Old Testament, takes on greater detail in the Gospels, and receives its finishing touches in Paul's letters. In Daniel, where the term first appears (raz in Aramaic, always translated with mysterion [musthvrion] in the LXX),

Original Word: μυστήριον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: mustérion
Phonetic Spelling: (moos-tay'-ree-on)
Short Definition: anything hidden, a mystery
Definition:

1) a mystery, secret, of which initiation is necessary;

2) in the NT: the counsels of God, once hidden but now revealed in the Gospel or some fact thereof; the Christian revelation generally; particular truths or details of the Christian revelation.

3466 mystḗrion (the root of the English term, "mystery") – mystery. In the Bible, a "mystery" (3466 /mystḗrion) is not something unknowable. Rather, it is what can only be known through revelation, i.e. because God reveals it.

Glad to see you found them.

Note the difference between the two.

The first is the pagan usage.

The second is the Biblical usage.

 

[crossnote]

I think that is fair. I will report what scripture says and you report how that is outlandish. Truce?

I will do you one better. I will report how your 'interpretaion' of scripture (though without Scripture) is outlandish using Scripture.

 

[Elin]

I asked the question first. What did the Jews receive before the Gentiles?
Answer that first and then we can continue without argument.

Can we continue with your using your Biblical meaning of "mystery" in your question?

For that is the basis of all the arguing.

Original Word: μυστήριον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: mustérion
Phonetic Spelling: (moos-tay'-ree-on)
Short Definition: anything hidden, a mystery
Definition:

1) a mystery, secret, of which initiation is necessary;

2) in the NT: the counsels of God, once hidden but now revealed in the Gospel or some fact thereof; the Christian revelation generally; particular truths or details of the Christian revelation.

3466 mystḗrion (the root of the English term, "mystery") – mystery. In the Bible, a "mystery" (3466 /mystḗrion) is not something unknowable. Rather, it is what can only be known through revelation, i.e. because God reveals it.

 

[oldthennew]

the first and foremost is John 4:22.
You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship,
for salvation is of the Jews.

2nd., the preaching of repentance and remission of sins should be preached
in His Name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem, (the home of the Jews).
(For salvation is of the Jews).

ROMANS 3:1.
What advantage then has the Jew, or what is the profit of circumcision?
2.
Much in every way! Chiefly because to them were committed the oracles of God.
oracles = the sayings and the scriptures of God.

ROMANS 9:4-5. (strictly speaking, Paul is a Benjamite but he is accounted as being of the Jewish Faith,
for when the tribes were separated many Benjamites clung to Judah=Jews.

(all Jews are Israelites - but all Israelites are not Jews.)

ROMANS 9:4-5.
Who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the Law,
the service of God and the promises; of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh,
Christ came, Who is over all, the Eternally Blessed God.

(And, Christ's blood-line goes back to JUDAH for

SALVATION is of the JEWS.

 

[just-me]

Can we continue with your using your Biblical meaning of "mystery" in your question?

For that is the basis of all the arguing.

You started it. Don't you use the Strong's concordance or do you think that is a pagan book?

 

[Elin]

You started it. Don't you use the Strong's concordance or do you think that is a pagan book?

Previously addressed.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

I didn't choose that definition. It is out of the Strong's concordance.

Again here is what it says.
3466. musterion moos-tay'-ree-on from a derivative of muo (to shut the mouth); a secret or "mystery" (through the idea of silence imposed by initiation into religious rites):--mystery.

Strong's Online Concordance: mysterion - [musterion] 1) hidden thing, secret, mystery
A. generally mysteries, religious secrets, confided to the initiated and not to ordinary mortals.
B. a hidden or secret thing, not obvious to the understanding
C. a hidden purpose or counsel 1. secret will a) of men b) of God: the secret counsels which govern God in dealing with the righteous, which were hidden from ungodly and wicked men but plain to the godly 2) in rabbinic writings it denotes the mystic or hidden sense

It seems you did make a choice . . . I would have chosen "a hidden purpose or counsel" esp. for the context of Eph. 1.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

I asked the question first. What did the Jews receive before the Gentiles? Answer that first and then we can continue without argument. There's all kinds of other things being added to confuse the simplicity of a descent discussion.

For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. 1 Corinthians 14:33

Acts 13:46 answers the question. Now define the word of God they received first.

The Old Testament is what they had at the time . . . but they refused the word of God - they put it from themselves and judged themselves unworthy of everlasting life . . .

 

[just-me]

So let's try to put this thread back on track before it got so rudely interrupted. From the OP

I really want this to be a learning thread rather than an arguing thread, so whoever wants to argue rather than learn and share, please do not contribute. Then we will see how much good this Bible study forum can be.

So the question is "what did the Jew receive before the Gentiles i.e. Greeks?"

Ephesians 3:1-6
1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby , when ye read , ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Dispensation=3622. oikonomia oy-kon-om-ee'-ah from 3623; administration (of a household or estate); specially, a (religious) "economy":--dispensation, stewardship.

Revelation=602. apokalupsis ap-ok-al'-oop-sis from 601; disclosure:--appearing, coming, lighten, manifestation, be revealed, revelation.

Mystery=3466. musterion moos-tay'-ree-on from a derivative of muo (to shut the mouth); a secret or "mystery" (through the idea of silence imposed by initiation into religious rites):--mystery.

I will add this...Definition: a mystery, secret, of which initiation is necessary; Strong's Greek: 3466. μυστήριον (mustérion) -- a mystery or secret doctrine

Paul is saying that He knows that the Gentiles are included into religious rites. Are those rites the same as what the Jew's received previously, or are they different? If so, are the Gentiles grafted into the same promise that God gave to Israel?

Romans 1:14-16
14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth ; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 2:9-10
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

 

[RedTent]

The Old Testament is what they had at the time . . . but they refused the word of God - they put it from themselves and judged themselves unworthy of everlasting life . . .

this post is at the heart of the controversy. It is summed up in "they refused". It is like a filter put on the mind of some, to say the God of the Old Testament is full of what is not to be used any longer for we have the new. There was 3,000 years of teaching we are to learn from in the Old Testament, the basis of the new. With this filter in minds, the New Testament is distorted. We need to understand Paul to understand, and Paul can not be understood when this filter to understanding is put in place.

It is a half truth. For many Jews refused to accept the Messiah, and by expanding that into a flat "they refused" everything is thrown into what isn't truth.

 

[crossnote]

Just-Me ''So let's try to put this thread back on track before it got so rudely interrupted.''

It would be nice to have a discussion not a one-way street. I and a few others had put forth a few answers but was ignored or overlooked, such as ''The Jews received the promises given to Abraham first''. Response?

 

[just-me]

Just-Me ''So let's try to put this thread back on track before it got so rudely interrupted.''

It would be nice to have a discussion not a one-way street. I and a few others had put forth a few answers but was ignored or overlooked, such as ''The Jews received the promises given to Abraham first''. Response?

Why did you like it as I did?

I'll also respond this way. Judah wasn't the only tribe that the promise was given to. Jew is short for that one particular tribe. So again I ask, "what did the Jew receive before the Gentiles i.e. Greeks?" I will add. What commemorated this promise?

 

[Elin]

Why did you like it as I did?

I'll also respond this way. Judah wasn't the only tribe that the promise was given to. Jew is short for that one particular tribe. So again I ask, "what did the Jew receive before the Gentiles i.e. Greeks?" I will add. What commemorated this promise?

The Jews received the law and the promises and the Sinaitic Covenant and. . .

 

[psychomom]

hmm...i'm not understanding the controversy.
it seems pretty clear Paul explains it himself.

Eph 3:3-5
the mystery spoken of

Eph 3:6 the mystery explained/described

to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel

didn't the Jews first receive the oracles of God (OT)
and the Gospel?

 

[Elin]

this post is at the heart of the controversy. It is summed up in "they refused". It is like a filter put on the mind of some, to say the God of the Old Testament is full of what is not to be used any longer for we have the new. There was 3,000 years of teaching we are to learn from in the Old Testament, the basis of the new. With this filter in minds, the New Testament is distorted. We need to understand Paul to understand, and Paul can not be understood when this filter to understanding is put in place.

Contrare. . . Paul's NT doctrine stands on its own, and can be understood from what he teaches.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

So let's try to put this thread back on track before it got so rudely interrupted. From the OP

I really want this to be a learning thread rather than an arguing thread, so whoever wants to argue rather than learn and share, please do not contribute. Then we will see how much good this Bible study forum can be.

So the question is "what did the Jew receive before the Gentiles i.e. Greeks?"

Ephesians 3:1-6
1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby , when ye read , ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Dispensation=3622. oikonomia oy-kon-om-ee'-ah from 3623; administration (of a household or estate); specially, a (religious) "economy":--dispensation, stewardship.

Revelation=602. apokalupsis ap-ok-al'-oop-sis from 601; disclosure:--appearing, coming, lighten, manifestation, be revealed, revelation.

Mystery=3466. musterion moos-tay'-ree-on from a derivative of muo (to shut the mouth); a secret or "mystery" (through the idea of silence imposed byinitiation into religious rites):--mystery.

I will add this...Definition: a mystery, secret, of which initiation is necessary; Strong's Greek: 3466. μυστήριον (mustérion) -- a mystery or secret doctrine

The thread got interrupted because of your choice of definition of musterion - which is incorrect since you are using Eph. 1-6 because if we go on to v9 we see this: Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself

So the definition of musterion that best fits this context would be - C. a hidden purpose or counsel 1. secret will a) of men b) of God: the secret counsels which govern God in dealing with the righteous, which were hidden from ungodly and wicked men but plain to the godly NOT

Paul is saying that He knows that the Gentiles are included into religious rites. Are those rites the same as what the Jew's received previously, or are they different? If so, are the Gentiles grafted into the same promise that God gave to Israel?

That isn't what Paul is saying . . . Were the religious rites of the Jew kept secret since the world began and kept hid from ages and from generations but NOW is made manifest?

"Romans 1:14-16
14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth ; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."

Yes it was given to the Jew first - but they rejected it by rejecting Christ and therefore Paul was sent unto the Gentiles. Blindness in part is given unto Israel [Jew] until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in . . . For I would not, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.

Romans 2:9-10
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

In context these two verses are speaking of judgment.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

this post is at the heart of the controversy. It is summed up in "they refused". It is like a filter put on the mind of some, to say the God of the Old Testament is full of what is not to be used any longer for we have the new. There was 3,000 years of teaching we are to learn from in the Old Testament, the basis of the new. With this filter in minds, the New Testament is distorted. We need to understand Paul to understand, and Paul can not be understood when this filter to understanding is put in place.

It is a half truth. For many Jews refused to accept the Messiah, and by expanding that into a flat "they refused" everything is thrown into what isn't truth.

We haven't refused anything only his use of musterion. "they refused" did you not read that in the scripture I posted? Why are you arguing with me . . . I didn't say it GOD DID. "It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: BUT SEEING YOU PUT IT FROM YOU . . ."

 

[Elin]

So let's try to put this thread back on track before it got so rudely interrupted. From the OP

I really want this to be a learning thread rather than an arguing thread, so whoever wants to argue rather than learn and share, please do not contribute. Then we will see how much good this Bible study forum can be.

So the question is "what did the Jew receive before the Gentiles i.e. Greeks?"

Ephesians 3:1-6
1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby , when ye read , ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Dispensation=3622. oikonomia oy-kon-om-ee'-ah from 3623; administration (of a household or estate); specially, a (religious) "economy":--dispensation, stewardship.

Revelation=602. apokalupsis ap-ok-al'-oop-sis from 601; disclosure:--appearing, coming, lighten, manifestation, be revealed, revelation.

Mystery=3466. musterion moos-tay'-ree-on from a derivative of muo (to shut the mouth); a secret or "mystery" (through the idea of silence imposed byinitiation into religious rites):--mystery.

I will add this...Definition: a mystery, secret, of which initiation is necessary; Strong's Greek: 3466. μυστήριον (mustérion) -- a mystery or secret doctrine

Nope. . .this thread is still on the wrong track as long as you maintain that in the NT, "mystery" is initiation into a religious rite.

You are trying to insert pagan practices into the meaning of the NT mysteries
in order to establish a basis for your false theology.

Nope. . .not goin' there.

 

[WomanLovesTX]

No, the NT contrasts the law and grace, it does not identify the law with grace.

"For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." (Jn 1:17)

All attempts to do so are unBiblical.

The word "but" that you underlined is in italics in KJV meaning the transcribers added the word that was not in original language