Contradiction of WORDS

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,396
113
Was Paul saved in belief or unbelief in Christ?
I am glad you addressed this as I thought...how can sea perch get this from what the bible obviously teaches....

Faith is a Spiritual Gift from God
Salvation is a gift from God
Grace is from God
Mercy is from God
Eternal life is from God

all dia Jesus.......It is all about God and his work and his faith and It blows my mind that many will interject themselves and their abilities which undermines God and what God has done on our behalf...like a friend of mine says...It takes your hand and dips it into the hot, wet blood of Jesus and slaps him in the face while saying that His completed work was not good enough and it needs to be supplemented by our own human effort while not realizing that the work of Christ PLEASED the Father and met HIS requirement for our eternal BUY BACK (redemption) that is found in Christ..........!
 
E

elf3

Guest
I think he gave them here:
Yeah but those are dictionary definitions and those aren't always understood by the person reading them.

If you noticed my definitions on the same two words they aren't dictionary. But they show my understanding of both mercy and grace. Know what I mean vern. Lol
 
A

Alligator

Guest
Re: Contradiction of WORDS..But

Maybe you should study as the word obeyed mean to pay attention to, pay heed to , to be attentive to and to confirm and has nothing to do with WORKS or OBEYING A COMMAND in order to receive something that is free and a gift....

Again your COC works for salvation taints your view, blinds your eyes and will take you some place that you do not want to go!
Again you fall back to an event that HAS NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH BIBLICAL SALVATION of a person's eternal SOUL....as long as you keep using a tainted COC pamphlet or doctrinal tool to keep you in ignorance you will never get it!
More typical AVOIDANCE of the issue.

I NEVER have said it had anything to do with Naaman's salvation. It is a perfect example of God's grace having a condition of a work being done (dipping 7 times) to receive God's grace yet that work in no way earns God's grace.
Hey dcon, I'm still waiting on you to submit an intelligent post, one void of name calling and criticisms.
But I guess that just means you have nothing to offer.
 
E

elf3

Guest
I am glad you addressed this as I thought...how can sea perch get this from what the bible obviously teaches....

Faith is a Spiritual Gift from God
Salvation is a gift from God
Grace is from God
Mercy is from God
Eternal life is from God

all dia Jesus.......It is all about God and his work and his faith and It blows my mind that many will interject themselves and their abilities which undermines God and what God has done on our behalf...like a friend of mine says...It takes your hand and dips it into the hot, wet blood of Jesus and slaps him in the face while saying that His completed work was not good enough and it needs to be supplemented by our own human effort while not realizing that the work of Christ PLEASED the Father and met HIS requirement for our eternal BUY BACK (redemption) that is found in Christ..........!
Shoot dc you forgot one. I am so disappointed in you lol

We are from God
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
Here is the bottom line once again to cut through all the obfuscation.
. . . . . .

Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
. . . . . .

Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
. . . . . .

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
. . . . .

Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
. . . . .

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
. . . . . .

Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Joh 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
. . . . .

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
. . . . . .

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
Fixed it for ya'.

But it needs more of the whole counsel of God before it is the "bottom line."
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
I am glad you addressed this as I thought...how can sea perch get this from what the bible obviously teaches....

Faith is a Spiritual Gift from God
Salvation is a gift from God
Grace is from God
Mercy is from God
Eternal life is from God

all dia Jesus.......It is all about God and his work and his faith and It blows my mind that many will interject themselves and their abilities which undermines God and what God has done on our behalf...like a friend of mine says...It takes your hand and dips it into the hot, wet blood of Jesus and slaps him in the face while saying that His completed work was not good enough and it needs to be supplemented by our own human effort while not realizing that the work of Christ PLEASED the Father and met HIS requirement for our eternal BUY BACK (redemption) that is found in Christ..........!
He's robbing God of the glory.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,396
113
Re: Contradiction of WORDS..But

Hey dcon, I'm still waiting on you to submit an intelligent post, one void of name calling and criticisms.
But I guess that just means you have nothing to offer.
So gecko...why don't you post some validating scripture as every time you pop in you do exactly what you accuse others of doing and when we do post scriptural references you and your COC brethren reject, deny and twist the scriptures to your own demise....So which rock did you crawl off of... Disbelief, Unbelief and or Reject all found in the valley of denial! HAH!
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,396
113
He's robbing God of the glory.
Yeah no doubt.....All glory goes unto man for his abilities to save himself, keep himself saved and for all the wonderful works that he has done as the work of Christ did not, does not and will not matter! NOT!
 
E

elf3

Guest
So gecko...why don't you post some validating scripture as every time you pop in you do exactly what you accuse others of doing and when we do post scriptural references you and your COC brethren reject, deny and twist the scriptures to your own demise....So which rock did you crawl off of... Disbelief, Unbelief and or Reject all found in the valley of denial! HAH!
Oh my gosh! Lol!
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,396
113
Shoot dc you forgot one. I am so disappointed in you lol

We are from God
HAHAH well add an addendum to my post and post away bro. HAHAHAHHA! I see I attracted a lizard as well which is no surprise as cold blooded creatures run rampant in the kingdom of the beast/serpent and or dragon!
 
E

elf3

Guest
Funny cause we still questions out there unanswered just ignored.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
Re: Contradiction of WORDS..But

Hey dcon, I'm still waiting on you to submit an intelligent post, one void of name calling and criticisms.
But I guess that just means you have nothing to offer.
Name calling?
You mean like accusing someone of being a boaster after
1) an alligator alleges "cherry-picking,"
then
2) someone rejoins by testifying that he read all the way through the Bible marking every passage on the subject?

It is my experience that usually unbelievers can't stick to the topic, but wish to make ad hominem personal attacks.

Salvation is by grace through faith, not of works lest anyone should boast.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

Acts 15:8
And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us; and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

Acts 26:18b
that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]


Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

Rom 3:21-30
But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction;
[NO WATER, NO WORKS]
23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; 26 for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus.
[NO WATER, NO WORKS]
27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: 30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.
[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

Rom 4:1ff
What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. 3 For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]
4 Now to him who works, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that works not, but believeth on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness.
[NO WATER, NO WORKS]
6 Even as David also pronounces blessing upon the man, to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]
9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness.
[NO WATER, NO WORKS]
10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision: 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them who believe,
[NO WATER, NO WORKS]
though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; 12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision. 13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith.
[NO WATER, NO WORKS]
14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law works wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed;
[NO WATER, NO WORKS]
not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. 18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.
[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,396
113
Re: Contradiction of WORDS..But

Name calling?
You mean like accusing someone of being a boaster after
1) an alligator alleges "cherry-picking,"
then
2) someone rejoins by testifying that he read all the way through the Bible marking every passage on the subject?

It is my experience that usually unbelievers can't stick to the topic, but wish to make ad hominem personal attacks.

Salvation is by grace through faith, not of works lest anyone should boast.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

Acts 15:8
And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us; and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

Acts 26:18b
that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]


Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

Rom 3:21-30
But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction;
[NO WATER, NO WORKS]
23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; 26 for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus.
[NO WATER, NO WORKS]
27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: 30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.
[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

Rom 4:1ff
What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. 3 For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]
4 Now to him who works, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that works not, but believeth on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness.
[NO WATER, NO WORKS]
6 Even as David also pronounces blessing upon the man, to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]
9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness.
[NO WATER, NO WORKS]
10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision: 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them who believe,
[NO WATER, NO WORKS]
though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; 12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision. 13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith.
[NO WATER, NO WORKS]
14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law works wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed;
[NO WATER, NO WORKS]
not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. 18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.
[NO WATER, NO WORKS]


Amen and so true......One cannot honestly add works and water to salvation without denying all the scriptures that teach contrary to works and water....the scriptures that mention water and works are not implying that salvation comes by works and water, but rather that Water (immersion) is a picture of what has taken place inwardly and is a public profession of said salvation and acceptance of the work of Christ dia faith and the works that follow are indicative of the tree bearing fruit....AN apple tree is an apple tree BEFORE it bears apples and goes all the way to the root...yeah, all the way to the seed as the very tree is based upon on the seed itself and that seed being the Holy Spirit and being BORN again of INCORRUPTABLE SEED!
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,396
113
But he did say it. He claims that David was a child of God and secure in his salvation even while he was engaged in murder and adultery. He says the David would only receive punishment physically not eternally.

There is no purity of heart in the theology he is asserting. That is why people like him (and perhaps you) cannot address the specifics of what I write but instead will use broad strokes.

The root of the error is the teaching that one can be saved whilst still in rebellion. The root of the error is the teaching that one can still be engaged in wickedness and saved at the same time.

Let me ask you and we'll see where you stand.

Does a child molester have to stop molesting children BEFORE God will forgive them?
If you reject that David was a child of God before and after his sin then you are ignorant of the truth..God was with DAVID before and after his sin.....so jive your theology with the bible as it makes it clear that David was/is a child of God...

One thing else you are blind too is the simple fact that UNDER the LAW David should have been put to death for murder and adultery, but WAS spared death BY GOD as the DEATH of HS firstborn SON was indicative of and a picture of JESUS as a SON of DAVID paid the debt of SIN that ALL humanity would commit. WHEN GOD sees the BLOOD he passes over....NO WHERE does it say that when GOD sees the BLOOD, WATER and WORKS he will pass over...so I strongly suggest that you open your eyes to the truth as ANYONE who trusts into WORKS combined with BLOOD will be trusting into a gospel of a DIFFERENT KIND which has no power to SAVE......MANY WILL COME before JESUS claiming their works and Jesus will say....I NEVER KNEW YOU......WHY didn't JESUS acknowledge them? Because their trust was in their own abilities and not in the BLOOD of the SON......!
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,396
113
Yes I believe that. What I'm asking is, do you believe Jesus submitted Himself to the will of God and voluntarily chose be punished to pay for our sins? To suffer God's anger on Himself?
Yes and all according to the plan that was laid out before the casting down of the world.......
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,396
113
you are a smart guy ...does not the scripture say the Son of God had power on earth to forgive sins...
Matthew 9:6
But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

After his resurrection did he not leave his disciples instructions for those who will come to believe in him ?
Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost


Mark 16:15-16King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Yeah smart enough to understand the following...

1. Hundreds of scriptures that teach salvation dia Grace/faith without works and or water as opposed to
2. Maybe 2 to 4 sets of scriptures out of context about water and works.....

So, I will use the hundreds of verses in context that teach faith based upon Grace as opposed to a few out of context that are applied by people who believe water and works.......!