Jews

[eternally-gratefull]

Eternally-grateful, why did Saint John the Baptist and then Christ also, said that the kingdom of God "is here"?

Did they both lied? Was Christ not the real King?

The kingdom of God, and the Lords reign on earth is not the same, If you would read the OT, you would even understand this

 

[GuessWho]

Yes, Because they did not understand Jesus had to come first as suffering servant, before he could come as king messiah,

What good would it do for Christ to set up his kingdom on earth, if non of his subjects would ever get to heaven, He had to take care of sin first.

All we have to do is look at the prophets to see this.

Look at the prophesies concerning king messiah and the suffering servant.

Messianic prophesies - micah 5: 2 - Zech 14: 9-16:

1. He will be human, born as a child
2. He will be a ruler (government will be on his shoulders)
3. He will be God himself (He will be called mighty God)
4. Hiskingdom will be eternal, it will never end.
5. He will NEVER DIE
6. He will come from Judah, and rule isreal, and his kingdom will be worldwide in scope. and his kingdom will come from the strength of God himself. it can not be defeated.
7. Those who rebelled againsed him, and survived the final battle will come and worship him. No one will look down on him, but look up to him. and serve him and him only.
8. He will be served, not be a servant.
9. We are given his name: Messiah, or as we know it Christ.

Concerning the suffering servant:

Isaiah 53:

1. He will be human. (no mention of him being God)
2. He will have no kingdom, no one will look up to him, they will look down on him.
3. He is not said to be God (although he is not said not to be God)
4. He takes our punsihment for our sin.
5. He dies a horrible death
6. He will rise from the dead
7. His death will justify many.
8. He is given no name. so we do not know who he will be.

If you look at these two. You could never say they were the same person, they have two different characteristics.

that is why the pharisees killed Jesus, they wanted the first person. they did not think they were sinners or needed saved, they had no desire, or need of the second.

this is the mystery that paul spoke of.

If you believe this than why did you say earlier that:


"Nope. because if it did, he would have done what he promised, and set up his throne in jerusalem. Ruled the world with a rod of iron, and given his people peace in their land."

You said earlier that Christ' coming has nothing to do with giving deliverance to the Jews.

 

[GuessWho]

The kingdom of God, and the Lords reign on earth is not the same, If you would read the OT, you would even understand this

I read the O.T. in the light of Christ. Since I believe Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah, I believe that "Lord reigns" is a reality that starts with Christ' incarnation, sacrifice and resurrection.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If you believe this than why did you say earlier that:


"Nope. because if it did, he would have done what he promised, and set up his throne in jerusalem. Ruled the world with a rod of iron, and given his people peace in their land."

You said earlier that Christ' coming has nothing to do with giving deliverance to the Jews.

did you even read what I posted?

Messianic prophesies - micah 5: 2 - Zech 14: 9-16:

1. He will be human, born as a child
2. He will be a ruler (government will be on his shoulders)
3. He will be God himself (He will be called mighty God)
4. His kingdom will be eternal, it will never end.
5. He will NEVER DIE
6. He will come from Judah, and rule isreal, and his kingdom will be worldwide in scope. and his kingdom will come from the strength of God himself. it can not be defeated.
7. Those who rebelled againsed him, and survived the final battle will come and worship him. No one will look down on him, but look up to him. and serve him and him only.
8. He will be served, not be a servant.
9. We are given his name: Messiah, or as we know it Christ.

Now look at the bolded parts of the characteristics of king messiah, and tell me when Jesus did that while he was on earth?

I will give you an example.

This messiah was said to never die, yet Jesus died. What is wrong with that picture. Why did jesus die, if the prophesies said he would never die?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I read the O.T. in the light of Christ. Since I believe Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah, I believe that "Lord reigns" is a reality that starts with Christ' incarnation, sacrifice and resurrection.

You may have read them, but reading and studying are not the same.

 

[Straightshot]

"'Is acknowledging Christ as Messiah, preteristic?"


Your statement is one of avoidance .... two handed .... deception is a mixture of truth and error

Here is what I know about the historical preterist [and there are others who do the same]


Matthew
24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

 

[Bookends]

Rom 2:28-29
For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.

But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

Interpreting the bible with the bible, that's what I like to see...

 

[Bookends]

So I am confused, when God Speaks of Israel, is He speaking of the nation that we know as Israel or His people?

However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. (1 Corinthians 15:46 NASB)

 

[Bookends]

There will be no temple of the Lord's on the mount court during the coming tribulation [Revelation 11:2]

This location will be overrun and occupied by Muslim Gentiles who would never allow a Jewish temple

The contrasting view of the Lord's temple given in chapter 11 is here [Revelation 11:1] .... His temple in heaven referred to several times as Revelation unfolds

His temple will not be built until after the tribulation [Ezekiel 40]

So they will sacrifice animals for the forgiveness of sins after Christ was the ultimate sacrifice, who died once for ALL!?

 

[Bookends]

You are a replacement theologist that pushes Israel's future fulfillment of the prophetic word into the past [Preter means "past"]

Once this is done then the preterist can claim national Israel's future position for themselves .... hence, the replacement

I suspect that you have been taught these things by other originators and they are not true

Check your position .... those who teach preterism/replacement add and push additional doctrines which could have a detrimental effect upon your own salvation

Who would want to go back to temple, priest and sacrifice? Paul says our new covenant has better promises... I believe him.

 

[phil112]

Who are those who say they are Jews and are not?

Sinners. Only saved ones are jews, and that is a spiritual jew.

Romans 2:29 "But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."

 

[Bookends]

you can not place an unclean thing to abominate a holy place if their is no holy place.

An abomination which causes desolation, is a term which means an unclean thing is placed in a holy place of worship, which causes it to be desolate.

In literal terms, the abomination is an abhorrent idle.

The OT prophets state a world leader will eneter the temple holy of holys. Make an abomination of it, and declare himself to be Gods son. He and the false prophet will then force the world to worship him via the mark of the beast.

After Christ paid the ultimate price, anything offered on the alter as a sacrifice is an abomination. It tramples on the blood of Christ. Want an insult to Jesus that must be.

 

[Bookends]

"If there is no temple. No one can see the abominable object (idle) standing in the holy place for there is no holy place"


By the way, you have a very nasty disposition



For the forum

The most holy place is at the base of the western retaining wall for Israel today .... not in a tribulation temple

The Lord said not one stone will be left standing in His projection the time of then ....there still is not, and there will not be during the coming tribulation

His discourse is about the coming 70th week decreed for Israel .... the time of Jacob's trouble .... the tribulation period .... not 70AD

Haha, must be one to know one... Although I came to like EG's disposition.

 

[Bookends]

It is interesting to note how the Jews have the following...

1. All material prepared to build a temple/tabernacle
2. The instruments of sacrifice prepared
3. The Kohen priesthood trained for sacrifice
4. A pure red heifer bred for sacrifice

I guess someone needs to tell them that they are wasting their time for sure.......!

That heifer will die before they could ever rebuilt it. And they are missing one major component, the land.

 

[Bookends]

"Yeah, I trust God and his word. and do not twist it and turn it and make it say something it does not.

I guess I will let you to your twisting, and make God out to be a liar."


Nasty .... swallow your pride ..... your emotional reactions offset your contributions

Aren't you the one calling yourself the king of prophecy?

 

[Bookends]

On and on you go .... never learning

And I know what a cult is eg, I can spot them from a long distance ..... and when I do I must respond .... essential part of the teaching .... sound doctrine and requirement

How about this for sound doctrine and requirement:

5 Do not rebuke an older man, but exhort him as a father, younger men as brothers, 2 older women as mothers, younger women as sisters, with all purity.

 

[keepitsimple]

did you even read what I posted?

Messianic prophesies - micah 5: 2 - Zech 14: 9-16:

1. He will be human, born as a child
2. He will be a ruler (government will be on his shoulders)
3. He will be God himself (He will be called mighty God)
4. His kingdom will be eternal, it will never end.
5. He will NEVER DIE
6. He will come from Judah, and rule isreal, and his kingdom will be worldwide in scope. and his kingdom will come from the strength of God himself. it can not be defeated.
7. Those who rebelled againsed him, and survived the final battle will come and worship him. No one will look down on him, but look up to him. and serve him and him only.
8. He will be served, not be a servant.
9. We are given his name: Messiah, or as we know it Christ.

Now look at the bolded parts of the characteristics of king messiah, and tell me when Jesus did that while he was on earth?

I will give you an example.

This messiah was said to never die, yet Jesus died. What is wrong with that picture. Why did jesus die, if the prophesies said he would never die?

You need to look at your first point again in context ...i.e...1) He will be human, born as a child. This can only mean one of the following in your view. When Christ returns the second time, He will be human, born as a child .... AGAIN. Or, when Christ did come the first time, He really couldn't have been the "king" Messiah ... because He died and the Messianic prophecies say He will never die. And before you get angry and/or flustered with me, consider this that you also say bolded in red ...i.e.... The Messiah was said to never die,... yet Jesus died. Even if you do adopt the thinking/belief that when Christ returns the second time, this is when your adaptation of understanding the Messianic prophecies to 'kick in", how does the fact that Christ did die for us on His first appearance nullify your claim that the Messiah, according to your understanding is said to never die ? Which is it ? Was/is Christ the Messiah ... our King ... the first time He came or not ? And if He was, how come He died, as you so aptly put it ?

John 11:25-26

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; [SUP]26 [/SUP]and whoever lives by believing in me will never die.Do you believe this?”

Are we to understand this as meaning that we will never die a physical death ? You look for the same thing as the unbelieving Jews of yesteryear looked for. You will not find it.

 

[sveinen]

After Christ paid the ultimate price, anything offered on the alter as a sacrifice is an abomination. It tramples on the blood of Christ. Want an insult to Jesus that must be.

yo, wake up! Christ Holy Most Pure, Did Total Good Best Best, It Is Done. He Higher, did not mind no shame. He Is Cool Hot, what not.
bad, bad, bad how schmeople treat "the regular cow."
too bad to mention is satanic slaughter of His unborn. "in what we call healthcare institutions or where not."

 

[Straightshot]

"How about this for sound doctrine and requirement:

5 Do not rebuke an older man, but exhort him as a father, younger men as brothers, 2 older women as mothers, younger women as sisters, with all purity."


You should try it

Do you know what your continued menial badgering looks like on a forum?

 

[Bookends]

"How about this for sound doctrine and requirement:

5 Do not rebuke an older man, but exhort him as a father, younger men as brothers, 2 older women as mothers, younger women as sisters, with all purity."


You should try it

Do you know what your continued menial badgering looks like on a forum?

Can't be any worst then yours!