Free from sin

InSpiritInTruth · Jun 25, 2015

The condemnation comes from those who say you will always be "in sin" that is a death sentence. We are preaching the ministration of righteousness by the power of the Word and Spirit of God which is Life, not condemnation. What did Jesus say to those who do not believe?

John 8:24
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Men will tell you are always "in your sins" but Jesus said you do not have to die "in your sins" Who are you going to believe?

If you do not believe in the words of Jesus that you can be set free from sin, and that you do not have to die IN SIN, then you truly do not believe in the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Filledwithhope · Jun 25, 2015

Those are the sins I was referring to as obvious sins that won't be a part of a Christian lifestyle. I gather you are perfect and sinless.
But I also said we can sin without meaning to sin. For example, have you ever felt anger towards someone, even for just a brief moment and you let it go as a Christian isn't supposed to do that. If so that was sinning. What about if you feel the lord tell you to write a check to someone for all you have but you don't have any money left to pay your bills. And let's say you were scared to do that and not sure it was the Lord telling you to do it. That would then be sinning would it not? Have you ever had any doubt? Even a brief moment of doubt in the word or what the lord has promised? If you have, you have certainly sinned. Have you ever broken traffic laws? Driven over the speed limit, even if just by 1 mph? We are told to obey the laws and authority here as well. If you have done this then you did indeed sin. Just throwing some random examples of what I meant by sinning without meaning to actually sin by doing something or not doing something. So have you stopped ALL sin?

Filledwithhope · Jun 25, 2015

I meant my last post as a reply to skinski7 but I am not familiar with how this site works so I wasn't able to reply to the correct post

phil112 · Jun 25, 2015

Blain said:

I am....if I choose to be. Tell me blain, what choice do you make?

Friends, you need to stop justifying your proclivity to sin.
Which of you that believes you cannot stop sinning also believes that just before you make that choice, if you get on your knees and ask His Spirit to help, will sin anyway? Are you going to sit here and tell us that God's Spirit has limited power to help?
It is a choice. If not, the bible lies and why you even bother to read it is beyond me.

1 Corinthians 15:33,34 "Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners. Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame."

Jason0047 · Jun 25, 2015

Dear Filled-with-Hope:

The Bible teaches us that not all sin is the same.

Jesus says there is a "Greater sin."

There are sins that cannot be forgiven, too.

Also, there are sins that lead unto death and sins that do not lead unto death (See 1 John 5:16-18). Psalm 19:12 talks about hidden or secret faults. This would be sins that do not lead unto death (i.e. spiritual death). For him to knoweth to do good and he does it not, to him it is sin. For example: This could be going over the speed limit, or not taking the trash out like you are supposed to on time. In other words, these types of sins are not going to condemn anyone to hell and the Lake of Fire.

Sins that lead unto death are the sins that Paul lists several times in the New Testament that will cause one to not to inherit the Kingdom of God. For John even defines these sins as leading to the Second DEATH (or the Lake of Fire) in Revelation 21:8. These sins would be lying, stealing, murdering, hating, adultery, and drunkenness, etc.

For there is no way that you cannot know when you don't do something that is really wrong because the Holy Spirit will convict you of any wrong doing so as to confess of it (And to forsake it). Unless of course you do all kinds of really bad sins and there is no conviction in your life. But does one have God living within them if there is no conviction to repent? Would there not be the fruits of the Spirit in a person's life to confirm that they have the Spirit? Can one follow two masters? Both God and sin?

Anyways, I say this in love and with the hope you might see where I am coming from.
May God bless you and please be well.

Sincerely,

~ Jason.

...

phil112 · Jun 25, 2015

1 Corinthians 16:13 Watch ye, stand fast in the faith, quit you like men, be strong.

phil112 · Jun 25, 2015

Filledwithhope said:

Nope. Sin is a choice. Sin is transgression of the law. When you sin, you put yourself back under the law that Christ died to free you from. Paul addressed this in Galatians, specifically the 3rd chapter.
Do you think Jonah sinned? No. He was disobedient, and he paid the price, but that isn't necessarily sin.
You are getting disobedience confused with sin. They are not the same.
If we don't do foot washing or communion, that isn't sin - it isn't against the law - but we put ourselves under disobedience. Will there be retribution, but it probably won't cost you your salvation. Sin will.

Skinski7 · Jun 25, 2015

Jason0047 said:

The substitutionary atonement going into effect when we live out our faith? Where is that in the Bible?

According to His word WHERE???

There is no substitutionary atonement taught in the Bible. In fact the word "atonement" surfaced in the 1600s for the first time and is contextually "at one moment" as it pertains to the doctrine of Penal Substitution. In the Old Testament the words we see translated "atonement" definitively mean "cover" or "expiate" and the context is of past sins passing away NOT being paid for via substitution.

Eze 18:26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

Penal Substitution teaches that Jesus bore the full wrath of God as the substitute for the elect. Thus "at one moment" in time the price owed was "paid in full" and upon faith in that payment being made it goes into effect for the individual.

The Bible simply does not teach that. There is no "atonement going into effect" for anyone. The death of Christ served this purpose...

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Heb 9:18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
Heb 9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
Heb 9:20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.

Jesus had to die in order to bring the Old Covenant to an end and to bring the New Covenant into force. We are to enter into that New Covenant via the blood of Jesus (the blood which enjoins us into covenant) through repentance and faith.

It is error to view the death of Christ as effecting some kind of "substitution that goes into effect." You are upholding Reformed Theology when you contend for such a thing. Reformed Theology is alien to true Christianity.

The blood of Jesus is in effect God's signature whereby He guarantees pardon IF we meet the conditions. The conditions are simply repentance and faith, ie. true belief/faithfulness.

Jesus did not pay any sin debt owed. God freely forgives sins without any need for a payment. The price Jesus paid was for YOU, not for your sin debt. Your sin debt can NEVER be paid and it is only by God's grace that it can be cancelled.

Look at the parable of the unforgiving servant. In that parable the servant was FORGIVEN his debt but when that servant did not forgive his fellow servant the debt was reinstated. The "price paid in full" or "sin debt paid in full" is a MYTH. Jesus paid a price alright but it was for YOU. Jesus purchased YOU. Jesus did not offer Himself as a punishment substitute (Penal Substitution) nor as a counter balance for forgiveness (Moral Government substitution ie. Finney). The people who teach that stuff operate from philosophical musings and conjecture, not from the the teachings of the Bible.

Jason0047 said:

Penal Substitution necessitates OSAS. If Jesus literally paid the sin debt owed then it cannot be made due again, if it was you would have double jeopardy or the same sins being punished twice.

It is inconsistent to teach against "future sins paid for in advance" (ie. future sins already forgiven) and to also uphold Penal Substitution. You are contending against simple logic.

Penal Substitution doctrine deceives people into thinking that salvation is positional as opposed to it being manifest. Thus they trust that they are "positionally" saved and because the "position" is premised on Jesus enacting a substitutional legal exchange they are deceived into thinking that "any requirements" like obedience is ADDING TO THE PROVISION.

You fail to see the true scope of the deception that has manifested in the world of religion today.

Filledwithhope · Jun 25, 2015

Dear Phil112

If a Christian dies and right before they die, let's say they utter a lie, are you saying that their salvation is lost? That sin ended up costing them their salvation? I mean they couldn't repent. So then if that is the case, the cross didn't do much then did it? It is all on us to save ourselves. So what then did the cross do if this is the case.

Skinski7 · Jun 25, 2015

Jason0047 said:

Jesus died for the sins of all mankind but He did not serve as a punishment substitute for those sins. Your error is in viewing "Jesus dying for sin" in the context of a "substitution."

There was and is no exchange. You don't swap places with Jesus and Jesus does not swap places with you.

Jesus died on your behalf so that you would follow His example and die too.

What did Jesus say?

Luk 9:22 Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.
Luk 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
Luk 9:24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

Does that sound like a substitution to you?

Jesus was not your substitute, He was your EXAMPLE.

1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
1Pe 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Is Peter teaching substitution there?

Is Paul teaching substitution in Romans 6?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Redemption is via DEATH AND REBIRTH. We die WITH Christ and we are raised WITH Christ. Not in position but in REALITY.

The cross is the means by which God deals with the root of iniquity in the heart of a sinner. The root of sin is destroyed once and for all. Paul personifies it as the "body of sin" which is DESTROYED from which the "service of sin" ceases.

This is why Peter would say...

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
...
1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

Being put to death in the flesh is a picture of our old man being crucified in repentance whereby we no longer walk according to the lusts of the flesh. Instead of being driven like base animals we keep ourselves by the Spirit of God in which we abide. We are regenerated from the carnality in which we walked according to our own lusts unto the Spirit filled life where we walk according to the will of God. Salvation is a PRESENT MANIFEST STATE not some position that comes into effect due to some substitutionary legal swap.

Jason I quote you the Bible and you ignore it. Look at your posts about substitution, it is pure rhetoric and conjecture. You completely ignore what the Book of Hebrews teaches. Jesus had to die to bring in the New Covenant because God has ordained that His covenants are sealed by blood. That is why we have the blood of the covenant. Jesus preached the Ministry of Reconciliation to sinners and then sealed His ministry with His death. Jesus put an end to any notion of "law keeping" and preached about the SOURCE of righteousness which is FAITH WHICH WORKS BY LOVE. True righteousness is not via keeping rules and regulations, it is via walking in the same Spirit which Jesus walked in. In other words we are to ABIDE IN THE SPIRIT OF LIFE.

Skinski7 · Jun 25, 2015

Filledwithhope said:

Such a question is rooted in an ignorance of why Jesus actually died.

Jesus came to this Earth to literally save us from sin itself, not just the condemnation for sin, but that which BRINGS condemnation.

When the Israelites were slaves in Egypt they SERVED the Egyptians. The Israelites were in BONDAGE in Egypt.

Sinners are slaves to sin and they SERVE sin. Sinners are in BONDAGE to sin.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Jesus Christ saves us from SERVING SIN whereby God is able to forgive us of our PAST crimes and whereby we are able to remain free of condemnation because we continually WALK in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

A single act of rebellion to God brings with it condemnation. This is why the Ministry of Reconciliation is designed to bring people into s state where the rebellion to God has ceased permanently. Thus it is the law of the SPIRIT OF LIFE IN JESUS CHRIST which truly sets one free from the law of sin and death.

The wages of sin is death. One sin and you die, just like Adam and Eve. Instant spiritual death. A sinner is dead to God for they are not in accordance with life, but rather death. God is the source of life and to reject God is to adhere to death.

The wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life THROUGH Jesus Christ. That means eternal life is THROUGH abiding in the SPIRIT OF LIFE IN JESUS CHRIST. If one is abiding in that Spirit then the rebellion to God has CEASED once and for all. We walk in purity before God with the love of God shed abroad in our hearts, truly redeemed from all iniquity and made pure within.

Satan has deceived multitudes of people into viewing salvation as a POSITION and that is how you view it. That is why you would posit a notion that one can "utter a lie" and "not lose salvation." What you don't understand is that one redeemed from all iniquity and made pure WILL NOT LIE. If they do lie then they are no longer pure and iniquity abides in them.

The cross did not effect any kind of CLOAK for ongoing wickedness. The cross effects a real CLEANSING of sin. If one can "do evil" and be "saved" then salvation is a mere cloak for wickedness, salvation is a means to sin and surely not die. I assure you that that is not salvation but a counterfeit from Satan.

Filledwithhope · Jun 25, 2015

Skinski7
So you are saying that a person who is saved is absolutely incapable of sinning and therefore the answer to my question is that if they uttered a lie right before they died, they would go to hell? Then let me ask this how was the man after God's own heart capable of sinning so much? And David did sin more than most, so did all other men in the bible. I am not defending sin. It is disgusting, but I do disagree with what you are saying

Skinski7 · Jun 25, 2015

Filledwithhope said:

You ought to make a distinction between outright rebellion to God and sins of ignorance.

What is not of faith is sin and faith works by love. Thus if one is violating their conscience and knowingly engaging in wrong doing then they are clearly under condemnation.

Driving over the speed limit? Fear due to immaturity? Doubt in something? These things, in their context, can be very different to willful transgression. It is rebellion that kills, not missing the mark due to ignorance, weakness, or wrong focus.

Read Corinthians and you will see a clear distinction between the "sin" of elevating one teacher over another and adultery, fornication and drunkenness.

God will correct His children for sins rooted in ignorance but willful sin is rooted in a heart full of guile.

There is a sin unto death and there is sin not unto death.

Skinski7 · Jun 25, 2015

Filledwithhope said:

David did not die in his sins. David repented of his wickedness and forsook it and we must too.

Don't be deceived into thinking you can engage in evil and not surely die.

David himself wrote...

Psa 32:1 A Psalm of David, Maschil. Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
Psa 32:2 Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

There was no guile in the heart of David post repentance. Blessed was David whom God did not impute iniquity and in whose heart was found no guile.

DAVID REPENTED.

Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

David did not cover his sin, he confessed them and forsook them.

Filledwithhope · Jun 25, 2015

So had David not had the chance to repent, he would have been lost? I don't believe that. I believe God looks at our hearts and that he knows that we are fallen creatures. As I said sin is disgusting but we all sin, whether disobedience or minor sins that don't lead to death. It is still sin so you cannot claim to be without sin.

InSpiritInTruth · Jun 25, 2015

Filledwithhope said:

Your speaking from a position of doubt, which is not of faith in what the Lord said he would do in cleansing you from all sin, and setting you free from sin.

1 John 5:17 “All unrighteousness is sin:….” Jesus cleanses us from all sin>>>1 John 1:9 “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. = 0 sins left after cleansing. And then he empowers us by His Spirit and by Christ working in us (seed of promise) to remain sin free>>>1 John 3:9 “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” = being “In Christ” and not being “in sin”.

If you serve sin, then you are servant of sin.

John 8:34-36 “Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.[SUP]35 [/SUP]And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”

So don’t doubt the power of God in Christ Jesus, but rather believe. Peace

notuptome · Jun 25, 2015

InSpiritInTruth said:

Oh really? You are not a witness for Christ. A living testimony of Gods saving grace?

If you talk the talk you gotta walk the walk.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

phil112 · Jun 25, 2015

Filledwithhope said:

Look, you've already made up your mind to sin and no one here is going to convince you to stop. Justify it however you want.
Never ever ask me if someone's salvation is lost - that isn't my decision.
I know what the word of God says and that is good enough for me. You can cling to all the sinners in the world if you want - they'll sympathize with you and help keep your conscience from bothering you. Birds of a feather and all that, y'know.

For you to say it is impossible to stop sinning is for you to say you aren't in control of yourself.

You really should change your mind about who/what you are under bondage to. It is, whether you want to believe it or not, your choice.

notuptome · Jun 25, 2015

Skinski7 said:

2 Corinthians 5:21 contradicts what you have proposed.

Jesus took my place in judgment and was condemned in my place. Jesus could not die until He took upon Himself my sin. This is vicarious atonement. The blood of innocence for the life of the guilty. The spotless Lamb sacrificed for the sins of man. Adam saw it and knew it when God provided the skins of animals to cover his sin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

InSpiritInTruth · Jun 25, 2015

So do not doubt the words of the Lord, but have faith, for it is by faith in the Word of God that we too shall overcome the wicked one and the world.

1 John 2:13
I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.

1 John 2:14
I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

1 John 4:4
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1 John 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

1 John 5:5
Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Revelation 2:7
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Revelation 2:11
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 2:17
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Revelation 2:26
And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Revelation 3:5
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Revelation 3:12
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

By faith in the Word of God we also shall overcome. Peace

Free from sin

Banned

Filledwithhope

Guest

Filledwithhope

Guest

phil112

Guest

Banned

phil112

Guest

phil112

Guest

Banned

Filledwithhope

Guest

Banned

Banned

Filledwithhope

Guest

Banned

Banned

Filledwithhope

Guest

Banned

Senior Member

phil112

Guest

Senior Member

Banned