To comfort those who speak in tongues

[KennethC]

I see lots of talk here about "experiences" and believing the whole Bible. But not a single Scripture posted, except LadyLynn when she cobbled together a bunch of references (which is certainly a better way than no verses at all!) trying to prove the "Baptism" of the Holy Spirit.

And if the verses I posted are wrong, then please feel free to refute them with the Bible, not experiences!

I have to wonder if someone renamed this forum "The Experience Discussion Forum" and I didn't notice when it happened!

Yes the route that ladylynn took was the right way to go in using the Sword in our replies, however we need to be careful at doing that because even with such if you still come out with the wrong conclusion does no justice to His word.

For instance trying to say a person is born again before they receive the Holy Spirit, that is not biblical nor is it what Acts 18-19 shows !!!

 

[KennethC]

Hi Ladylynn,

I totally agree the baptism with the Holy Spirit is a separate experience subsequent to receiving the Holy Spirit at our new birth. It is powerful and personal and often accompanied by tongues and prophecy, and also the demonstration of other giftings. Mine was a few years after I was saved, when I was alone in my room at home. I experienced all the burden of my troubles taken literally on the shoulders of Jesus. I felt alive in every nerve ending to the power of God. I found that the experience catupulted me forward into a greater level of faith immediately so that I was propelled into ministry.

There is a teaching out there that the baptism with the Holy Spirit is the same as baptism in water, or at the same time. This accounts for why many claim to be baptized in the Holy Spirit without having had any personal Holy Spirit experience. I feel it is dangerous because it stops people seeking what God wants them to have.

Blessings, Con

The baptism of the Holy Spirit is the receiving of the Holy Spirit, they are one and the same.

You receive the Holy Spirit once by the Lord, and it is only the fruits and gifts that are added on later as it fulfills God's will.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit by the Lord is not water baptism, and also can not be done by man.
The baptism that was commanded by the Lord in Matthew 28:19-20, and Mark 16:16 is baptize (immersion in water) in His name.

There is only one baptism man can do, as the Holy Spirit is given by God !!!

 

[convallaria]

The baptism of the Holy Spirit is the receiving of the Holy Spirit, they are one and the same.

You receive the Holy Spirit once by the Lord, and it is only the fruits and gifts that are added on later as it fulfills God's will.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit by the Lord is not water baptism, and also can not be done by man.
The baptism that was commanded by the Lord in Matthew 28:19-20, and Mark 16:16 is baptize (immersion in water) in His name.

There is only one baptism man can do, as the Holy Spirit is given by God !!!

Amen Ken the Holy Spirit baptism is not done by man. But there is more after you have been sealed by Him in the beginning because Jesus Himself baptizes us in the Holy Spirit at a later stage, but always after we are converted.

It is easy to say that it isn't about experience (testimony) if you don't have that testimony of the power of God. I DO have that testimony and I resent the fact that others on here are trying to belittle me for something that God gave me, that was undeniable proof of His presence in my life.

John the Baptist speaks about the baptism with the Holy Spirit and with fire, which Jesus gives us directly, as follows:

Matthew 3:11

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

So clearly there are two kinds of baptism in that one verse alone, at least.

People get grumpy because they haven't had that experience...so they don't have that testimony of it....but if they only knew what a difference it makes to everything when you have that up close and personal encounter with the Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and are utterly soaked in His love and His power.

Very many people through the ages have had this experience and testify of the same thing. It is the same thing that was poured out at Pentecost and people are still mocking it today.

I will have to ask the thread be closed unless someone from the cessationist camp can show me that they are actually thinking about all this and learning something. So much rudeness and belittling and anger and hatred....

....all because I and others like me (of which there are many) have EXPERIENCED something that they haven't.

 

[KennethC]

Amen Ken the Holy Spirit baptism is not done by man. But there is more after you have been sealed by Him in the beginning because Jesus Himself baptizes us in the Holy Spirit at a later stage, but always after we are converted.

It is easy to say that it isn't about experience (testimony) if you don't have that testimony of the power of God. I DO have that testimony and I resent the fact that others on here are trying to belittle me for something that God gave me, that was undeniable proof of His presence in my life.

John the Baptist speaks about the baptism with the Holy Spirit and with fire, which Jesus gives us directly, as follows:

Matthew 3:11

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

So clearly there are two kinds of baptism in that one verse alone, at least.

People get grumpy because they haven't had that experience...so they don't have that testimony of it....but if they only knew what a difference it makes to everything when you have that up close and personal encounter with the Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and are utterly soaked in His love and His power.

Very many people through the ages have had this experience and testify of the same thing. It is the same thing that was poured out at Pentecost and people are still mocking it today.

I will have to ask the thread be closed unless someone from the cessationist camp can show me that they are actually thinking about all this and learning something. So much rudeness and belittling and anger and hatred....

....all because I and others like me (of which there are many) have EXPERIENCED something that they haven't.

The sealing of the Holy Spirit only takes place when one receives the Holy Spirit, the fire that you are speaking on is the gifts from the Holy Spirit.

Notice how in Acts 2:3 how it says this;

"And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them."

The baptism of the Holy Spirit from the Lord follows immediately after you have repented and by baptized in His name.
It does not come later in life, as those are the gifts !!!

Yes two baptisms mentioned in Matthew 3:11, but not two of the Holy Spirit as the fire is the giving of the gifts by Him !!!

 

[notuptome]

yeah Angela ok...we get it...you were duped etc etc

that is not the testimony of myself and others here though

myself? I DO NOT KNOW WHAT I WOULD DO WITHOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT! and praying in tongues...my experience is IN LINE WITH SCRIPTURE so I guess you had bad teachers

you know, the emphasis is not on the gifts...it is on our Lord Jesus Christ...so I don't know why you keep repeating all this negativity...that may all be so for you....but not at all so for 10s of thousands

and please do not think I want to argue with you it is just that you keep repeating how awful your experience was...it really needs to be understood that is not the norm for the genuine thing

respectfully

I suggest that Angela is not the one receiving bad teaching which the bible call sound doctrine.

Deception begins with but a single soul.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Amen Ken the Holy Spirit baptism is not done by man. But there is more after you have been sealed by Him in the beginning because Jesus Himself baptizes us in the Holy Spirit at a later stage, but always after we are converted.

It is easy to say that it isn't about experience (testimony) if you don't have that testimony of the power of God. I DO have that testimony and I resent the fact that others on here are trying to belittle me for something that God gave me, that was undeniable proof of His presence in my life.

John the Baptist speaks about the baptism with the Holy Spirit and with fire, which Jesus gives us directly, as follows:

Matthew 3:11

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

So clearly there are two kinds of baptism in that one verse alone, at least.

So you are saying there is a baptism 1) with the holy Spirit and a baptism 2) with fire . . . This is a figure of speech - with the holy Spirit and with fire . . heindiadys - two words being used but one thing is meant . . . "fire" is used as an adjective and in this case it is describing a refining and purging, i.e. spiritual fire. You were literally baptized with holy Spirit but not literally with "fire". It's the same as "spirit and water", i.e. spiritual water (John 3:5) . . . . and "of the Spirit and of power", i.e. spiritual power (1 Cor. 2:4)

People get grumpy because they haven't had that experience...so they don't have that testimony of it....but if they only knew what a difference it makes to everything when you have that up close and personal encounter with the Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and are utterly soaked in His love and His power.

Very many people through the ages have had this experience and testify of the same thing. It is the same thing that was poured out at Pentecost and people are still mocking it today.

The apostles were filled with the gift of holy Spirit . . . the same as we are today . . . Acts 2:38. The "fire" - there appeared unto them cloven tongues "like as of fire" and it sat upon each of them . . . more of a vision which appeared and was LIKE as of fire . . .

I will have to ask the thread be closed unless someone from the cessationist camp can show me that they are actually thinking about all this and learning something. So much rudeness and belittling and anger and hatred....

....all because I and others like me (of which there are many) have EXPERIENCED something that they haven't.

EXPERIENCED . . . that is what people are having trouble with . . . EXPERIENCED has to do with FEELINGS/EMOTIONS and when we combine that with the manifestation of the Spirit . . . that is when we see such things as "holy laughter", "holy barking", "slain in the Spirit". . . that is what I think most have a problem with - NOT the manifestation of the Spirit itself but the abuse of said manifestation.

 

[BarlyGurl]

that is what I think most have a problem with - NOT the manifestation of the Spirit itself but the abuse of said manifestation.

I think it is more to do with the ability to DISTINGUISH between abuse of... and NOT OF.... the HS. Some people say... it's all of the devil or they cannot be confident in discerning so there fore DISMISS ALL....JMO.

 

[notuptome]

I think it is more to do with the ability to DISTINGUISH between abuse of... and NOT OF.... the HS. Some people say... it's all of the devil or they cannot be confident in discerning so there fore DISMISS ALL....JMO.

Could just be that it doesn't line up with the bible.

Symptoms point to the cause but they are not the cause.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[convallaria]

So you are saying there is a baptism 1) with the holy Spirit and a baptism 2) with fire . . . This is a figure of speech - with the holy Spirit and with fire . . heindiadys - two words being used but one thing is meant . . . "fire" is used as an adjective and in this case it is describing a refining and purging, i.e. spiritual fire. You were literally baptized with holy Spirit but not literally with "fire". It's the same as "spirit and water", i.e. spiritual water (John 3:5) . . . . and "of the Spirit and of power", i.e. spiritual power (1 Cor. 2:4)

The apostles were filled with the gift of holy Spirit . . . the same as we are today . . . Acts 2:38. The "fire" - there appeared unto them cloven tongues "like as of fire" and it sat upon each of them . . . more of a vision which appeared and was LIKE as of fire . . .

EXPERIENCED . . . that is what people are having trouble with . . . EXPERIENCED has to do with FEELINGS/EMOTIONS and when we combine that with the manifestation of the Spirit . . . that is when we see such things as "holy laughter", "holy barking", "slain in the Spirit". . . that is what I think most have a problem with - NOT the manifestation of the Spirit itself but the abuse of said manifestation.

No I am saying there are at least 2 baptisms mentioned in one verse: John's baptism in water, and then the baptism by Jesus with the Holy Ghost and with fire...and then there is the water baptism by the church since John later on. So when the word of God says One Faith One Baptism, it clearly doesn't mean one KIND of baptism...but one baptism as entry to the one church.

I don't know why anyone would say that experience has to do with emotions: maybe you have a different usage with it to UK. Here experience is a factual event that you pass through. Like if you experience a heavy snow storm, you are right in the snowstorm itself and it becomes part of your experience. Or if you experience surgery, you undergo it and nothing you feel about it or think about it changes it. So if you experience or undergo the baptism with the Holy Spirit, it is something that happens to you without doubt and it changes you in terms of your experience: you can never be the same person you were.

The effect of any experience is that your feelings will change I guess. Maybe that is where we are misunderstanding each other. A bad snow storm might make you fearful of snow. Surgery might make you feel confident physically. The baptism with the Holy Spirit makes you feel full of faith and confidence in the Lord.

Hope that helps!

 

[RussellJBenigno]

The spiritual gifts are not in effect today. For we walk by faith and not by sight. The gift of eternal life yes but not the gifts of tongues, prophesies, etc. Dont be fooled. Satan will use what God isnt using to deceive many. Romans 3:24-26

That is a "Doctrine of demons" and not found in scripture. Those of us who have the Holy Spirit have experienced these things and do testify what we have seen and heard and it is Truth. If you wish we can help you to be set free from this false teaching. I was taught this false teaching as well but God set me free.

 

[ladylynn]

Yes the route that ladylynn took was the right way to go in using the Sword in our replies, however we need to be careful at doing that because even with such if you still come out with the wrong conclusion does no justice to His word.

For instance trying to say a person is born again before they receive the Holy Spirit, that is not biblical nor is it what Acts 18-19 shows !!!

It's impossible to get saved/born again and not have the HolySpirit at the time of regeneration. You guys don't read my looooooooooong posts. When we get saved we get sealed by that HolySpirit of promise. Back in 1982 I was born again and could see because of the HolySpirit's work. At salvation we automatically get the HS and He begins to show us the truths in the Bible and we have a deep desire to know all we can about Jesus and what the Bible says about everything. Deep desire to be in church and around those who know Jesus and talk about Him and worship Him. Wanted to learn all I could with the saints and put myself under the teaching of the church and Bible studies and fellowship. Was baptized after a few weeks of intense classes and accepted in the fellowship, and joined the church given the right hand of fellowship upon my confession in front of the congregation.

Just this year 2015, I received the Baptism of the HolySpirit and began speaking in tongues. The 2 experiences were very different.

 

[Angela53510]

Experience with God is another way of saying testimony.

Still not one single Bible verse. And people wonder why I object to tongues! If you can't speak Biblically to this topic, I suggest you take your "testimony" to the Testimony Forum. Maybe that is a better place for your discussion with this obvious lack of Biblical proof being pushed in the BIBLE Discussion Forum!

 

[Angela53510]

It's impossible to get saved/born again and not have the HolySpirit at the time of regeneration. You guys don't read my looooooooooong posts. When we get saved we get sealed by that HolySpirit of promise. Back in 1982 I was born again and could see because of the HolySpirit's work. At salvation we automatically get the HS and He begins to show us the truths in the Bible and we have a deep desire to know all we can about Jesus and what the Bible says about everything. Deep desire to be in church and around those who know Jesus and talk about Him and worship Him. Wanted to learn all I could with the saints and put myself under the teaching of the church and Bible studies and fellowship. Was baptized after a few weeks of intense classes and accepted in the fellowship, and joined the church given the right hand of fellowship upon my confession in front of the congregation.

Just this year 2015, I received the Baptism of the HolySpirit and began speaking in tongues. The 2 experiences were very different.

I do totally agree with you that we receive the Holy Spirit when we are saved. But I am still just getting testimonies about this second thing - the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Give me the verses. Please

Thanks in advance.

PS I know the book of Acts really well. Perhaps I will do an exegetical study of this in a post?

 

[HoneyDew]

1 Corinthians 14:1-5 For if you have the ability to speak in tongues, you will be talking only to God, since people won't be able to understand you. You will be speaking by the power of the Spirit, but it will all be mysterious. But one who prophesies strengthens others, encourages them, and comforts them. A person who speaks in tongues is strengthened personally, but one who speaks a word of prophecy strengthens the entire church. I wish you could all speak in tongues, but even more I wish you could all prophesy. For prophecy is greater than speaking in tongues, unless someone interprets what you are saying so that the whole church will be strengthened.

 

[HoneyDew]

1 Corinthians 14:39 So, my dear brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and don't forbid speaking in tongues.

 

[ladylynn]

I think it is more to do with the ability to DISTINGUISH between abuse of... and NOT OF.... the HS. Some people say... it's all of the devil or they cannot be confident in discerning so there fore DISMISS ALL....JMO.

Yes BarlyGurl, I agree with you. People are all different and some get carried away even in a very straight laced fundamental Baptist church that does not preach of the Baptism of the HolySpirit and speaking in tongues and believing in the gifts for today. People do different things and act different ways. God doesn't change people's personalities when we get saved, and quite often like ALWAYS if a person has a "dramatic" personality before salvation, they will have the same personality after salvation. , they will be very dramatic in all issues of their life experiences.

Thankfully the HolySpirit irons out the rough edges but even then, God likes us the way He made us and we are not all the same like robots all saying and doing all things the same way. And we get on each others nerves. How glad we should all be that we don't get on God's nerves and He loves us unconditionally.

This is human behavior 101. But some Christians expect people to ALL act the same as they do and when people don't it's a one way ticket out the door. (These things ought not be so taken from words in the Bible...) Human beings who get saved will not be perfect. They won't act perfect and they won't always walk well. They say stupid things, do stupid things, hurt people even though they don't mean to., some mean to but feel bad after... it takes time to mature. in the mean time if other Christians check them off the accepted list because of a perceived (by judgmental) attitude, they will not see the whole picture and will be satisfied they got rid of and quieted that "odd one". Then the one who got rid of their brother or sister will never know they did anything wrong and will continue in their lives doing the same exact thing to other believers who don't act or walk like they do.

Aren't you glad God is big enough to be a Father to all of His blood bought children and the HolySpirit can do the teaching and transforming?? I also think satan uses people's immaturity and lack of teaching in the things of God to split the body of Christ and get us fighting so we don't see who the real enemy is.

 

[ladylynn]

And just one more thing before I go to dinner., What is all this stuff about not being able to talk about experiences? Hey folks, if no one has yet told you, being a human being makes us HAVE TO experience things in life in order to understand them. We have a body that God gave us that acts and reacts. It's how we are wired. We have emotions and we respond to things differently because we are human.

God wants us to experience Him. A Christians is NOT devoid of emotion or feeling. It's all part of being human. If you deny experience then you deny your whole life since it is made up of allllll your experiences. Please lets not over spiritualise everything to the degree that we are robots that get turned on and shut off. God did not make us that way. God's Word works perfectly with our minds as the HolySpirit leads us. God knew what He was doing when He created us and gave us the Bible. It all works perfectly like a owners manual. Perfect Christians will be in heaven not here.

 

[wattie]

An experience can be not of God. Satan works in this area a lot, with deception. That is why i and others would rather talk Scripture than experience. There also the fact that none of us can verify eachothers experience

 

[HoneyDew]

We must recall and recount the works of God in our lives by sharing our testimony with others. Your testimony is someone else’s deliverance! As we look toward the Cross and see the people who were gathered at the foot of the cross that day, each had a testimony, each had a story to share about Jesus and the transformational power of the blood that was shed that day. Their stories continue to be told more than 2000 years later, their testimony helped to save your life and mine. So yes someone else's experience can be valuable and helpful and encouraging to others.

Revelations 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony;

 

[wattie]

Also i believe faith hope and love are the remaining abiding gifts. I say to the likes of convallaria to at least abide completely by pauls admonishments in how other gifts are meant to be used because they will find if they did- there would be nothing happening! The sign gifts would not be manifesting. Not that i believe a prophet could suddenly appear, but that if people were to abide by the biblical guidelines in how the gifts operated then they would find out they have actually fulfilled there purpose.