Do you believe being gay is a choice?

[Tommy2]

unfortunately, homosexuals come from ALL types of families, even families where both parents are Christians and together. It has no bounds. We are all born into sin in that we all are born with a sinful nature....that is what makes homosexuality "natural". It doesn't mean its right, or that it's God's will...it just means it's there and part of one's sinful nature. In my son's case, his struggle started at in the prime of puberty....just like when you suddenly realize an attraction for a girl for the first time....he never experienced that. Instead, he realized his attraction was for the opposite sex...and it upset him so badly.Please pray for him. He needs the love, spirit, and the power of God in his life. I will never reject him and I will always love him, and I will NEVER shame him for being gay. I will, however, pray for him. It is something only God can heal, we are not authorized to fix him or make him right. We can pray and point him in the right direction though...without judgement, without hatred, and without condemnation.

Lis your son will be in my prayers! As someone older but dealing with the same thing he is I wish I could offer an easy solution, but I do think one thing he seems to have in his corner is a wonderful, loving Mom. That will go a long way. If there's any advice I can offer it's to encourage him never to feel like his feelings mean he can't approach, pray, talk to, and yes even honestly question or wrestle with God about this. Sometimes I feel like I'm not worthy to approach God but he wants me to come as I am and I'm sure He wants that for your son too. God bless him and you!

 

[Mitspa]

I think you and I are defining natural in two different ways here, Mitspa. I'm defining it from a sinful "nature" perspective. ..and I agree with you that in Christ we can overcome sin...which is why I asked for you all to pray for my son...because it is Christ who he needs above all....and no, I won't shame him who has already shamed and loathed himself his entire life. In my son's case, shaming him further could lead to his own suicide. He has long suffered with both anxiety and depression. I have, however, been honest with him about what God desires and requires of him. He needs to know God is real, first and foremost, and that God truly loves him to the extent of dying for him in order that he might be saved. Not sure where your going when you say "the rest of us have to answer to God with our own conscience"...but so do I...and I lean on him daily for that. So rather than getting nit-picky, why don't you just pray for the kid like I'm asking?

oK ..I AGREE with you in the Name of Jesus we will see him delivered from this bondage....amen Now am I allowed to speak to this issue on this thread as I believe I should?

I would add that the term sinful "nature" is not a real biblical term...its a bad translation for the word sarx...(flesh)
We all have flesh..but we believers have the "divine" nature ... You said that homosexuality was natural because we are all sinners, when the scriptures say just the opposite and make this sin a example of a person who has entered into a reprobate condition. I don't think any justification of this sin really helps the folks in this bondage.

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

unfortunately, homosexuals come from ALL types of families, even families where both parents are Christians and together. It has no bounds. We are all born into sin in that we all are born with a sinful nature....that is what makes homosexuality "natural". It doesn't mean its right, or that it's God's will...it just means it's there and part of one's sinful nature. In my son's case, his struggle started at in the prime of puberty....just like when you suddenly realize an attraction for a girl for the first time....he never experienced that. Instead, he realized his attraction was for the opposite sex...and it upset him so badly.Please pray for him. He needs the love, spirit, and the power of God in his life. I will never reject him and I will always love him, and I will NEVER shame him for being gay. I will, however, pray for him. It is something only God can heal, we are not authorized to fix him or make him right. We can pray and point him in the right direction though...without judgement, without hatred, and without condemnation.

My heart goes out to you, Lisa. I was just like your son was, I lived as transgender and homosexual, and I did force it on my mother, constantly pushing it on her in order to guide her into my lifestyle and "accept" me, believing that I could only be happy if she never disagreed with me about it ever. And I did break her down until she became 100% compliant with my lifestyle.
I have come to God now, by His work, and not mine in any way. And I have come to her to tell her that I was wrong, and she has come back to God as well. Were both still loving of everyone, and do not hate anyone, but we both also want to follow the word of God, and help anyone who seeks Him find Him.

Talking to your son about God is /not/ hateful, judgmental or even condemning in anyway. We are not to judge and condemn, but they need to know that God will, if they do not repent. Dont let the secular world mislead you to believing that sharing with us the good news of Christ is somehow evil, and that God would really just want you to let them live that life happily. We are told to spread out to the four corners of the earth and share His word You can both love your son, and pray for him to find God, and gently push him to God at the same time. If he decides to be offended by God, then its the choice he has made. But a person denying God now doesnt mean they never will, I once denied Him entirely

I will pray for you and your son.

It's a addiction.

This is totally true. It is something that can consume your life entirely, but with God, it can be overcome.

 

[TriviaGirl86]

This is a good question and one I struggle with. I believe some people are more likely to find the same sex sexually attractive while others have never had that issue. I don't think having those urges in and of itself is necessarily a sin as long as one doesn't engage in homosexual activity, prays about it and doesn't actively seek that lifestyle out.

 

[Mitspa]

This is a good question and one I struggle with. I believe some people are more likely to find the same sex sexually attractive while others have never had that issue. I don't think having those urges in and of itself is necessarily a sin as long as one doesn't engage in homosexual activity, prays about it and doesn't actively seek that lifestyle out.

Its is a "sin" and admitting it is a sin is very much part of the healing process in Christ...to deny what is a sin and excuse it, is to only give it power and hinder the work of grace and truth for a believer.

In Christ we can face the inner secrets (thoughts and intentions of the heart) with boldness and expectation of His grace to overcome... so say "oh its ok" or "its normal" in some way...is to fall short of the truth we need to walk in.

 

[TriviaGirl86]

Well I suppose that yes having sexual urges for anyone is a sin, if you aren't married and thinking only of your spouse. What I mean to say is that God loves gay people and sometimes those gay people will never want to be with the opposite sex and will then live a life of celibacy, and that is perfectly okay.

Yes, but what is normal? Sexual urges of most any kind are sinful, so why not abstain from them all together?

 

[Mitspa]

Well I suppose that yes having sexual urges for anyone is a sin, if you aren't married and thinking only of your spouse. What I mean to say is that God loves gay people and sometimes those gay people will never want to be with the opposite sex and will then live a life of celibacy, and that is perfectly okay.

Yes, but what is normal? Sexual urges of most any kind are sinful, so why not abstain from them all together?

Why not abstain and deal with the issues of the heart that cause these desires in a way that trust Christ? Sure God loves..but we also know the standards of His judgment for believers and non-believers. The Word of God (the Words of His Love) tells us not to accept this as a fate we must accept but can overcome.

 

[TriviaGirl86]

Why not abstain and deal with the issues of the heart that cause these desires in a way that trust Christ? Sure God loves..but we also know the standards of His judgment for believers and non-believers. The Word of God (the Words of His Love) tells us not to accept this as a fate we must accept but can overcome.

I agree with you there. God is capable of doing anything in someone's life and therefore He can change that person's heart and mindset. What I was trying to get at earlier is that being gay is not a sin that makes someone inferior to another person who has not struggled with those issues (not saying anyone has implied this) but that it should be looked as something that can be overcome.
I realize that I did say that having gay thoughts or urges is not a sin and it is, just as lusting after anyone who isn't one's spouse (in a heterosexual relationship) is a sin. I believe that working on those urges can take time though and that people shouldn't give up on them.

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

Well I suppose that yes having sexual urges for anyone is a sin, if you aren't married and thinking only of your spouse. What I mean to say is that God loves gay people and sometimes those gay people will never want to be with the opposite sex and will then live a life of celibacy, and that is perfectly okay.

Yes, but what is normal? Sexual urges of most any kind are sinful, so why not abstain from them all together?

I agree with this entirely. We are never told that not being "sexually aroused" by those of the opposite gender is sinful. Paul wrote that it was not something he struggled with, and that God was okay with living life in celibacy. I also would agree that deciding to deny sexual urges is not sinful either It leads to being strong against desires and temptation, and we are even told to not "live passionately like the pagans do" and to "take time for prayer to avoid satans temptations" (when dealing with the urges and fulfilling them with your spouse).


I dont think its wrong to not have that urge towards the opposite sex, no It is wrong to accept them for the same sex, yes. It is not wrong to be tempted by it but say no to them. And I have never anywhere seen that it is wrong to just not really have that urge towards the opposite sex either


I may not have that urge, but I can say that I do find women to be attractive And I know that though I cant honestly tell you that I have that urge to be with her in that way, I do still deal with the temptation of the flesh, and even though I may not see my future wife in that way necessarily, I know I would really appreciate her being with me when dealing with the temptation of the flesh itself, in order to not fall into sin against God. I am fully aware that you dont /really/ have to have those urges to not be in sin And I would be very very happy to have a wife who would chose to be with me and love me.

 

[TriviaGirl86]

I agree with this entirely. We are never told that not being "sexually aroused" by those of the opposite gender is sinful. Paul wrote that it was not something he struggled with, and that God was okay with living life in celibacy. I also would agree that deciding to deny sexual urges is not sinful either It leads to being strong against desires and temptation, and we are even told to not "live passionately like the pagans do" and to "take time for prayer to avoid satans temptations" (when dealing with the urges and fulfilling them with your spouse).


I dont think its wrong to not have that urge towards the opposite sex, no It is wrong to accept them for the same sex, yes. It is not wrong to be tempted by it but say no to them. And I have never anywhere seen that it is wrong to just not really have that urge towards the opposite sex either


I may not have that urge, but I can say that I do find women to be attractive And I know that though I cant honestly tell you that I have that urge to be with her in that way, I do still deal with the temptation of the flesh, and even though I may not see my future wife in that way necessarily, I know I would really appreciate her being with me when dealing with the temptation of the flesh itself, in order to not fall into sin against God. I am fully aware that you dont /really/ have to have those urges to not be in sin And I would be very very happy to have a wife who would chose to be with me and love me.

Very well-said. You're right, Paul said that marriage was important for those who couldn't control their lusts. Otherwise he said that it wasn't important or necessary to get married at all. Now there are those people who favor companionship and that's why they get married, again perfectly acceptable.

I think our world wants us to view sex as natural to the point of perverting it beyond what God had intended it for and that's where people are skewed on what is right and wrong. The simple fact is that every person has the ability to avoid temptation but some have a more difficult time than others.

 

[slave]

Well I suppose that yes having sexual urges for anyone is a sin, if you aren't married and thinking only of your spouse. What I mean to say is that God loves gay people and sometimes those gay people will never want to be with the opposite sex and will then live a life of celibacy, and that is perfectly okay.

Yes, but what is normal? Sexual urges of most any kind are sinful, so why not abstain from them all together?

[/QUOTE]



The problem is not sex it is us.

Marriage is for one man and one woman by Gods design. This is the consistent teaching of the Bible. Gen. 2:24-55, Matt. 19:4.

So, sex outside of this context is a sin both in terms of actuality and in our thoughts, or mind.For God concludes thru scripture: If you think it, you did it. Paraphrased for emphasis...smile. Here's my point-God created sex! God made our bodies "Very Good" with "Male and Female" parts and pleasures. When our first parents consummated their Covenant, God was not shocked nor horrified, because He Himself created our bodies for sex. The reason that sex is fun, pleasurable, and wonderful is because it is a reflection of the loving goodness of God who created it as a gift for us to steward and enjoy. Gen. 2:24-25. Some need to note this as well.

But sinful sex outside of Marriage is a sin. We are emphasizing Homosexuality here which is one of them, but there are many more as well: Erotica, bestiality, bi-sexuality, fornication, friends with benefits, adultery, swinging, prostitution, polygamy, polyandry, sinful lust, pornography, and pedophilia. 1 Cor. 6:9-11; 18-20; Heb. 13:4.

Shame is not a godly perspective on sex, you show here. It is either a sin or a blessing.Conviction of sin is shame with a purpose, but shame is never a godly resting place for sex to sit in the way of our thinking. Godly sex is a blessing.Ungodly sex is a sin. Shame is only a catalyst to point out sin to us, not to have a plan that says, we must choose God or sex.

Homosexuality is simply always a sin, by Gods design, or by way of His un-design.. But again, we need to worry not about the accuracy of that label as much as loving the child of God under it's control. We need to not use a creed of saying, "It is all a mind thing" as it's therapy, but let the facts speak for themselves. The facts are people are really gay. and it is not a mind fart. But God is a God of supernatural power, and if He is the one that determines a thing to be bad in our lives then He will secure victory over it for us, in what way He sees fit in the real - time answer of peoples lives. Not in a compromised fashion, but in a all-inclusive answer particular to Gods application of interceding in that persons life.

 

[GuessWho]

This is a good question and one I struggle with. I believe some people are more likely to find the same sex sexually attractive while others have never had that issue. I don't think having those urges in and of itself is necessarily a sin as long as one doesn't engage in homosexual activity, prays about it and doesn't actively seek that lifestyle out.

The only problem I find with this logic is that...if someone was...I don't know...attracted to children, he might think that's okay as long as he doesn't actively engage in raping children.

I honestly think that you should feel worried about what you are being attracted by. In no way I want to compare homosexuals with pedophiles. I am just going a little further with this idea that attraction is harmless as long as you don't engage.

Of course is better not to engage than to engage. But the purpose of a Christian homosexual (or heterosexual) is to find deliverance from all sin and to grow in the likeness of God. Like someone here already said, sin comes from the mind and from the heart. So, we need to allow the Holy Spirit to work on these two and change them. If we find excuses and justifications for our sins, we won't allow the Holy Spirit to mold us.

Metanoia (repentance, changing of the mind) comes with our intentions to change, with our acknowledgement that we need help. The rest (the work) is on God. But the intentions are on us.

 

[TriviaGirl86]

The only problem I find with this logic is that...if someone was...I don't know...attracted to children, he might think that's okay as long as he doesn't actively engage in raping children.

I honestly think that you should feel worried about what you are being attracted by. In no way I want to compare homosexuals with pedophiles. I am just going a little further with this idea that attraction is harmless as long as you don't engage.

Of course is better not to engage than to engage. But the purpose of a Christian homosexual (or heterosexual) is to find deliverance from all sin and to grow in the likeness of God. Like someone here already said, sin comes from the mind and from the heart. So, we need to allow the Holy Spirit to work on these two and change them. If we find excuses and justifications for our sins, we won't allow the Holy Spirit to mold us.

Metanoia (repentance, changing of the mind) comes with our intentions to change, with our acknowledgement that we need help. The rest (the work) is on God. But the intentions are on us.

I had redacted my previous statements and tried to make them clearer. What I meant to say was that urges are a form of temptation and if we avoid those temptations then we are doing right by God. However, we should also be praying to be rid of said temptations altogether. I would be careful in insinuating that some sexual lusts are so much worse than others since that is human-based sin hierarchy and not God's way of valuing sin.

I agree that if our temptations are against what God has planned for us as his people than we should pray for deliverance. However, the same can be said for a heterosexual person who lusts outside of marriage for anyone other than his/her spouse. I also agree that we should have intentions to change, that's why I included prayer as a means of repentance and willingness to change in my earlier statement.

 

[TriviaGirl86]

Well I suppose that yes having sexual urges for anyone is a sin, if you aren't married and thinking only of your spouse. What I mean to say is that God loves gay people and sometimes those gay people will never want to be with the opposite sex and will then live a life of celibacy, and that is perfectly okay.

Yes, but what is normal? Sexual urges of most any kind are sinful, so why not abstain from them all together?

[/QUOTE]



The problem is not sex it is us.

Marriage is for one man and one woman by Gods design. This is the consistent teaching of the Bible. Gen. 2:24-55, Matt. 19:4.

So, sex outside of this context is a sin both in terms of actuality and in our thoughts, or mind.For God concludes thru scripture: If you think it, you did it. Paraphrased for emphasis...smile. Here's my point-God created sex! God made our bodies "Very Good" with "Male and Female" parts and pleasures. When our first parents consummated their Covenant, God was not shocked nor horrified, because He Himself created our bodies for sex. The reason that sex is fun, pleasurable, and wonderful is because it is a reflection of the loving goodness of God who created it as a gift for us to steward and enjoy. Gen. 2:24-25. Some need to note this as well.

But sinful sex outside of Marriage is a sin. We are emphasizing Homosexuality here which is one of them, but there are many more as well: Erotica, bestiality, bi-sexuality, fornication, friends with benefits, adultery, swinging, prostitution, polygamy, polyandry, sinful lust, pornography, and pedophilia. 1 Cor. 6:9-11; 18-20; Heb. 13:4.

Shame is not a godly perspective on sex, you show here. It is either a sin or a blessing.Conviction of sin is shame with a purpose, but shame is never a godly resting place for sex to sit in the way of our thinking. Godly sex is a blessing.Ungodly sex is a sin. Shame is only a catalyst to point out sin to us, not to have a plan that says, we must choose God or sex.

Homosexuality is simply always a sin, by Gods design, or by way of His un-design.. But again, we need to worry not about the accuracy of that label as much as loving the child of God under it's control. We need to not use a creed of saying, "It is all a mind thing" as it's therapy, but let the facts speak for themselves. The facts are people are really gay. and it is not a mind fart. But God is a God of supernatural power, and if He is the one that determines a thing to be bad in our lives then He will secure victory over it for us, in what way He sees fit in the real - time answer of peoples lives. Not in a compromised fashion, but in a all-inclusive answer particular to Gods application of interceding in that persons life.

I completely agree with you and never have I suggested people be ashamed of sex, only have I asked a question. I also mention that sex is planned for a heterosexual married couple and that lust has no place in anyone's life outside of the covenant made between a man and woman who are married.

Shame, though, is very much part and parcel of sex because of the world but not because of God. I don't think it is necessary that people be ashamed but I understand that it is very common. Most people who are not asexual will struggle with lust at some point in their lives and it's okay to recognize it. Shame is just acknowledging that we have sinned and need to repent that we are not living in a Godly way. I don't disagree with anything you've said, just thought I'd ask a question of other posters and get different perspectives.

 

[GuessWho]

I agree that if our temptations are against what God has planned for us as his people than we should pray for deliverance. However, the same can be said for a heterosexual person who lusts outside of marriage for anyone other than his/her spouse.

I wouldn't equate the attraction of a heterosexual married person for another person (other than his wife) with the attraction of a person towards children.

Please, you KNOW it's not the same!

 

[TriviaGirl86]

I wouldn't equate the attraction of a heterosexual married person for another person (other than his wife) with the attraction of a person towards children.

Please, you KNOW it's not the same!

Well sure, not to people it isn't...but last time I checked God doesn't have a ranked list of sins in the bible. If you can find me that I would be glad to agree with you.

 

[GuessWho]

Well sure, not to people it isn't...but last time I checked God doesn't have a ranked list of sins in the bible. If you can find me that I would be glad to agree with you.

Last time I checked, being sexually attracted by a person of a different sex is normal and natural and being sexually attracted by children is an anomaly.

Being sexually attracted by children is always a sin. Being sexually attracted by a person of a different sex is not always a sin and is never an anomaly.

 

[TriviaGirl86]

Last time I checked, being sexually attracted by a person of a different sex is normal and natural and being sexually attracted by children is an anomaly.

Being sexually attracted by children is always a sin. Being sexually attracted by a person of a different sex is not always a sin and is never an anomaly.

Then why does Jesus say to men that looking at another woman with lust is the same as committing adultery with her? Surely thinking and doing are two different things? Just because people are more repulsed by one act over another, myself included, does not make either of those situations less of a sin to God.
By the way, earlier you stated that it was the attraction of a married person to a person they aren't married to. Having a sexual attraction to a person of the opposite sex is not necessarily a sin, as long as one isn't looking on that person with lust.

 

[GuessWho]

Then why does Jesus say to men that looking at another woman with lust is the same as committing adultery with her?

Because Jews were very proud of their behavior and visible correctness but were negligent to the deep root of sin (which is in the mind and heart and in the fallen nature). The Jews, just like a lot of Christians today, were more interested in the moral behavior than with the changing of the heart and mind.

Surely thinking and doing are two different things? Just because people are more repulsed by one act over another, myself included, does not make either of those situations less of a sin to God.

It's not about being less of a sin or more of a sin. It's simply about normality in one case and anomaly in another case.
Even when sinful, the attraction a man feels for a woman is always normal, while in the case of a homosexual, the sexual attraction for another man is always sinful and perverted.

By the way, earlier you stated that it was the attraction of a married person to a person they aren't married to...which indeed is a sin. Having a sexual attraction to a person of the opposite sex is not necessarily a sin, as long as one isn't looking on that person with lust.

Again, the attraction of a married man for a beautiful woman that is not his wife, although sinful, is still a normal one.

It is normal to be attracted by beautiful, healthy people who could give birth to beautiful, healthy babies. It is part of our sexual instinct. I saw a documentary about the attraction between a man and a woman on National geographic (a secular channel) and it basically said the same thing: we are attracted by the beautiful, healthy people because in our subconscious we want beautiful, healthy offspring. So, even from an atheist, evolutionary point of view, attraction between different sexes makes more sense than the same-sex attraction or any other kind of deviated attraction.

 

[TriviaGirl86]

Because Jews were very proud of their behavior and visible correctness but were negligent to the deep root of sin (which is in the mind and heart and in the fallen nature). The Jews, just like a lot of Christians today, were more interested in the moral behavior than with the changing of the heart and mind.



It's not about being less of a sin or more of a sin. It's simply about normality in one case and anomaly in another case.
Even when sinful, the attraction a man feels for a woman is always normal, while in the case of a homosexual, the sexual attraction for another man is always sinful and perverted.



Again, the attraction of a married man for a beautiful woman that is not his wife, although sinful, is still a normal one.

It is normal to be attracted by beautiful, healthy people who could give birth to beautiful, healthy babies. It is part of our sexual instinct. I saw a documentary about the attraction between a man and a woman on National geographic (a secular channel) and it basically said the same thing: we are attracted by the beautiful, healthy people because in our subconscious we want beautiful, healthy offspring. So, even from an atheist, evolutionary point of view, attraction between different sexes makes more sense than the same-sex attraction or any other kind of deviated attraction.

I must have gotten confused because I didn't think we were talking about what is normal and what isn't. What I had mentioned is sin-hierarchy which places one sin above another. One sin is not better or more forgivable because it is perceived as normal by God or society. I do agree with you on what is a natural mindset and what isn't, but I was discussing the fact that no sin is worse than another whether or not it is considered more perverted...