Sorry Pilgrim, you are putting an unnatural interpretation on all the scriptures you quote;
This will make, what, the fourth time I have asked you to show why? lol
Okay, so now that we have established that you expect people to embrace what you say apart from any Biblical presentation, I will make this the last post to you until you can begin supporting your charges with an address of what you feel is satanic.
Time to get back on track with the topic, and I am quite happy to leave the public record showing that you cannot address the topic, and that your objections have all been addressed to show the error.
You make the Bible to fight against it self, This of the Devil.
Actually, the topic should be simplicity in itself.
Here is another example:
Titus 2:13-15
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
It should be, for the discerning Bible Student, quite obvious that what occurred after Christ's death, burial, Resurrection, and Ascension...didn't take place prior to those events. I have shown in this thread that the eternal indwelling of God was a future event which would take place...only when the Comforter came. I have shown that the disciples themselves did not even believe in the Resurrection of Christ, neither before (for Peter rebuked the Lord when the Lord gave them the Gospel) nor immediately after the Resurrection.
I am guessing you have not bothered to read the Scriptural presentations dealing with this, and that is understandable, few will work their way through 8 or 9 pages of discussion to avoid raising the same objections already dealt with.
So here is a Scriptural presentation showing that the disciples, who some would consider born again Christians...denying the Resurrection:
Luke 24:4-11
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead?
[SUP]6 [/SUP]He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And they remembered his words,
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven, and to all the rest.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]It was Mary Magdalene and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And their words seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not.
Now what am I wresting in this text? Is it not obvious...they were unbelieving? That is what the Word of God states clearly...is it not?
Consider:
John 14:26
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Now why would the Comforter...have to bring these things to their remembrance? Because that is the very Ministry Christ said He would being...after Christ had returned to Heaven.
But Luke isn't done revealing the unbelief of the disciples yet. Let's take a look at two of them, mourning for Christ:
Luke 24:21-26
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulcher;
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
Had they embraced the Resurrection of Jesus Christ?
No...they had decided that Jesus was not He that should Redeem Israel.
One more glimpse into their unbelief (from this chapter):
Luke 24:36-39
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]36 [/SUP]And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
[SUP]39 [/SUP]Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
...they still thought He was dead, and that they were seeing a ghost, a spirit, someone who had departed from their physical frame (body).
Their unbelief is made clear in Mark:
Mark 16:9-14
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
Now, you have charged me with demonic doctrine, and clearly you have no interest in justifying your charge, but are content to be viewed as a false witness, so once again I would ask you to support your charges with an address of the points made.
But I won't expect it, because the above Scripture speaks for itself.
And I am not the only to question the "belief" of the disciples...
John 16:28-32
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP]I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, Do ye now believe?
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.
The Lord points out that these "believers" will abandon Him. We do not deny they were believers, but, what we can deny is that they understood the Mystery of the Gospel at this point. The reason is made clear by Paul, the Gospel was a Mystery, which is another point mentioned several times in this thread, which has not received the first address.
Men are born again through faith in Christ, and specific faith in the Cross of Christ. Hard to make even one of the disciples trusting in the Cross. Especially when we see that they simply rejected the Resurrection.
Now how many born again believers do you know, my friend, that reject the Resurrection of Christ?
Continued...