To KJV-Onlyist.

[HumbleSaint]

That's because you can't argue with facts, and the facts are that it is impossible to perfectly translate one language into another. You can just do as best as you can, but there will always be discrepancies.

Maybe you should learn Greek and Hebrew so you can prove to me that the KJV is inaccuate. Otherwise your probably just getting your information from human reasoning. What does the Bible say about what we as humans think.

There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof; are the ways of death. Proverbs 14:12

If we don't have an accurate version of God's Word, than we are just playing a guessing game.

 

[HumbleSaint]

That doesn't have anything to do with the KJV being the most accurate English translation today. (Which it's not), but attacking the NIV is a bit off topic seeing how it's not the only *other* translation.

Its not just the NIV that says one and only son. Go to www.biblegateway.com And you can compare different versions.

 

[Maranatha_Yeshua]

Maybe you should learn Greek and Hebrew so you can prove to me that the KJV is inaccuate. Otherwise your probably just getting your information from human reasoning. What does the Bible say about what we as humans think.

There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof; are the ways of death. Proverbs 14:12

If we don't have an accurate version of God's Word, than we are just playing a guessing game.

Perhaps we can quote scholars who have doctorate degrees in these languages? Like the author of the article in my original post?

 

[Nuhen]

Maybe you should learn Greek and Hebrew so you can prove to me that the KJV is inaccuate. Otherwise your probably just getting your information from human reasoning. What does the Bible say about what we as humans think.

I've already begun learning Hebrew, and know quite a lot of it. Why don't you learn Hebrew and Greek and test it yourself?

If we don't have an accurate version of God's Word, than we are just playing a guessing game.

We do have an accurate version. It's called the original.

 

[HumbleSaint]

Perhaps we can quote scholars who have doctorate degrees in these languages? Like the author of the article in my original post?

If these same scholars tell you that they have proof that Jesus never came to be the Messiah, will you believe that too. I don't put my faith in man, my friend.

 

[Maranatha_Yeshua]

If these same scholars tell you that they have proof that Jesus never came to be the Messiah, will you believe that too. I don't put my faith in man, my friend.

Didn't a *man* translate the Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek manuscripts into English?

If you were to learn a new language, wouldn't a *man* be teaching you?

So you are pretty much saying, "read the original languages to disprove me, but even if you do disprove me I won't put my faith in you."

 

[HumbleSaint]

I've already begun learning Hebrew, and know quite a lot of it. Why don't you learn Hebrew and Greek and test it yourself?



We do have an accurate version. It's called the original.

I do believe we can get a stronger meaning if we take some of the words from the KJV and find out its greek deffinition. For example:

sorcery----pharmakiea ===drugs

whormonger----pornos====pornography, etc.

baptism----baptizo=======submerge and so on

 

[HumbleSaint]

Didn't a *man* translate the Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek manuscripts into English?

If you were to learn a new language, wouldn't a *man* be teaching you?

So you are pretty much saying, "read the original languages to disprove me, but even if you do disprove me I won't put my faith in you."

All I'm saying is that we can't believe every seducing spirit and doctrine of devils, we need something to prove whether something is right or wrong and the English speaking people had only the KJV for around 350 years and all of a sudden right in the middle of the Great Apostacy just before the antichrist shows up it is no longer accurate. Its just an endtime lie. The Bible says that the endtime will be so deceptive that if it were possible it would even decieve the true believers.. So we have got to keep our guard up.

 

[Maranatha_Yeshua]

All I'm saying is that we can't believe every seducing spirit and doctrine of devils, we need something to prove whether something is right or wrong and the English speaking people had only the KJV for around 350 years and all of a sudden right in the middle of the Great Apostacy just before the antichrist shows up it is no longer accurate. Its just an endtime lie. The Bible says that the endtime will be so deceptive that if it were possible it would even decieve the true believers.. So we have got to keep our guard up.

OK, quoting Dr. Brown's article again..

"1) We have additional, ancient biblical manuscripts today, like the Dead Sea Scrolls, which help us determine the most accurate reading of the ancient text.
2) We have improved understanding of Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, allowing us to more carefully translate the truths of God’s Word. Shouldn’t we take advantage of this?"

How can you argue with these facts?

 

[HumbleSaint]

OK, quoting Dr. Brown's article again..



How can you argue with these facts?

I see ink with words that are underlined. I could do that myself and call it fact.

 

[Maranatha_Yeshua]

I see ink with words that are underlined. I could do that myself and call it fact.

Dude are you serious

 

[Harley_Angel]

I'm sure God is up there facepalming and thinking to Himself...if all the time and energy they spend shooting facts back and forth and bickering over semantics was focused elsewhere, they probably would have solvd world hunger by now...

 

[Maranatha_Yeshua]

l o l

 

[charisenexcelcis]

shame on you Dmurray, this is not about a person being right or wrong but rather the Holy Word of God being right or wrong, so if the KJB says :
2ti 3:16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
and other translations says :

2 Timothy 3:16 (New International Version)

16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

2 Timothy 3:16 (New American Standard Bible)


16(A)All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;



2 Timothy 3:16 (New King James Version)

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

2 Timothy 3:16 (New Living Translation)

16 All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right.


2 Timothy 3:16 (The Message)


14-17But don't let it faze you. Stick with what you learned and believed, sure of the integrity of your teachers—why, you took in the sacred Scriptures with your mother's milk! There's nothing like the written Word of God for showing you the way to salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. Every part of Scripture is God-breathed and useful one way or another—showing us truth, exposing our rebellion, correcting our mistakes, training us to live God's way. Through the Word we are put together and shaped up for the tasks God has for us.



then all these should agree with the other and if not then all can not be God inspired or God-breathed

They are saying the same thing in different dialects. And they are not the location of inspiration. If that were so, then the translators of the KJV needed no manuscripts at all, they could have simply written the Bible by inspiration without reference to anything save the Holy Spirit.

 

[Nuhen]

They are saying the same thing in different dialects. And they are not the location of inspiration. If that were so, then the translators of the KJV needed no manuscripts at all, they could have simply written the Bible by inspiration without reference to anything save the Holy Spirit.

That would be scary

 

[charisenexcelcis]

ok so in your opinion, i am stupid, or I am weak, i could not take the solid two hours to focus on this test for it took me awhile trying to respond to others in here, to get to where you showed where there were in scritpures, i hope your pastor does not claim to know everything there is to know about scriptures , i hope he is still seeking knowledge , one of the verses that i have chosen to be my goal is in acts where the scribes said that they knew peter and John were unlearned men, but they could tell they had been around Jesus. so thank you for pointing out that I have achieved part of that verse already that i am unlearned. but I have checked several sources and none of them has said that a flagon is a raisin, and all the other words have more than one meaning i gave one and you gave another, does not make you right and me wrong or you wrong and me right, but look for governor i said captain of the ship you said pilot I updated the word because most folks put a pilot as one who flys not sails and you used the old meaning of the word, but I am wrong in doing so by up dating to clear it up , but we can up date the holy Word with corrupt text and that is ok with you......

this is not Bible but it is a true saying " God does not call the qualified but rather qualifies the called "

Actually, I think you did incredibly well, better than I would have done. You were substantially correct on affinity, compass, dearth, governor, implead, and set at nought. God's calling upon you is apparent and I would guess that you are both well loved and gifted in your ministry. I do not believe that the Nestle text and would veture a conclusion that your problem is with the translations and even the idea of modern translation.

 

[charisenexcelcis]

You just don't grasp what we are saying do you? we are not saying that the kjb goes along with the majority of the translations printed today, But in the Days tHat the KJB the 1611 kjb was translated It was taken from The maunuscripts that were used 99% of the time, the MAJORITY of the Time, the manuscripts were used to translate to english in those days,was the one that the translators of the KJB used. We are not saying That the kjb fits in with the majority of bibles that we have today, that is our whole point of this debate, that it does not agree with the modern day bibles.. when we say manuscripts you must take it that we mean bible or something.

You are using a term (majority text) that has a specific meaning within translation, that is, that you compare all manuscripts and go with the text supported by the majority of manuscripts. That is how the Textus Recepticus was compiled. If the same method was repeated the KJV would not follow the majority text, because there are thousands of recently discovered manuscripts.

 

[charisenexcelcis]

ok so in order for Jesus to be the one that died for you, that you might have life. He had to be the Perfect One. He had no sin! agree so far. ok let's look at what a few words can do or a lack of few words can do ..

Matthew 5:22 (King James Version)


22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.



Matthew 5:22 (New International Version)

22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother[a]will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,[b]' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.




Footnotes:

1. Matthew 5:22 Some manuscripts brother without cause
2. Matthew 5:22 An Aramaic term of contempt

so the Niv points out that some manuscripts says" without cause" , but the manuscripts that they use don't or their verse would have read who is angry with his brother without cause will be subject to judgement. no big real here with you right, I mean so we have a cause to have anger or not what difference does it make. to you and me you may be right. But to someone who has to be perfect without sin , that will put him under that judgement it is a really BIG deal , so look at this.

Matthew 5:22 (New International Version)

22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother[a]will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,[b]' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.




Footnotes:

1. Matthew 5:22 Some manuscripts brother without cause
2. Matthew 5:22 An Aramaic term of contempt

Mark 3:4-5 (New International Version)



4Then Jesus asked them, "Which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?" But they remained silent. 5He looked around at them in anger and, deeply distressed at their stubborn hearts, said to the man, "Stretch out your hand." He stretched it out, and his hand was completely restored.


the NIv just said that Jesus was subject to judgement, yeah a few words can mean or make a big difference, If Jesus sinned as the Niv said here then he was not the messaih. the one who could take away our sins, so what do you think now ????? now the Kjb still has Him without sin For he had cause to have anger at these doubtors, so one says that he sinned, one says that he is still perfect, there is a difference!!!!!!

And what of the word "brother". Do you believe that the commandment not to be angry (even without cause) applies to all or only those whom we could consider brothers?

 

[charisenexcelcis]

Oh Nuhen.....you disappoint me!

Latin was the language of literate people in the West. If you knew how to read, you knew how to read Latin. In the High Middle Ages, the Vatican did crack down on heretical groups that were attempting to translate the Bible into their common language and common heresy. The fact is, the printing press advanced literacy greatly - Luther never planned to have his 95 Thesis printed and distributed, but when he saw the power of the printing press he decided to translate the Bible into German - and even he, an educated member of the clergy was tempted to remove Hebrews, James and Revelation because they did not appear to support his understanding of doctrine.

All of this is a far cry from KJO folks - Luther did not believe the Latin Vulgate to be inferior to his own.

Actually, the majority of the literate people in the West were priests and most of the non-clergical literate people in the West didn't read or write Latin. so "Song of Roland", "Gawain and the Green Knight", "The Lais of Marie of France", "Beowulf", "The Canterbury Tales", etc....none in Latin.

 

[charisenexcelcis]

that is why I said largely

it is nearly the only verse of note
probably one or 2 words in revelation
apart from that the KJV IS the majority text

Sorry, misunderstood. It was late at night and I was getting a little loopy.