Stupid things 'Christians' do
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I heard Ian McCormick's testimony and it is full of the grace and mercy and love of God....I love how the Lord uses anything He can to get us to call on Him. He remembered only " forgive us our sins".....I'm sure the Lord has used that one a number of times for people to come to Him....that was all he had and his mother certainly was the one who called on the Lord for His life.
Maybe his testimony will get rid of some of the foulness in this thread.
Wonderful testimony!
[video=youtube;0GWcm-fSFao]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GWcm-fSFao[/video]
Maybe his testimony will get rid of some of the foulness in this thread.
Wonderful testimony!
[video=youtube;0GWcm-fSFao]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GWcm-fSFao[/video]
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C
You see this a lot in Holland. This is just a guy who starts to teach, he has no pastor or anything.
What Does Church Attendance Look Like Under Grace? And Should You Attend One? | Communicating Grace
I understand they got tired of it, but I see some on Facebook who don't go anywhere and it's dangerous. They go with every teaching they like, one teaches full preterism on Facebook, he's just a believer, they go with people like Crowder. They have no pastor who watches over them.
What Does Church Attendance Look Like Under Grace? And Should You Attend One? | Communicating Grace
I understand they got tired of it, but I see some on Facebook who don't go anywhere and it's dangerous. They go with every teaching they like, one teaches full preterism on Facebook, he's just a believer, they go with people like Crowder. They have no pastor who watches over them.
I listened to that one and he does say that he goes to church but he just doesn't make it a "religion" as some do. It seems some Dutch reform churches are pretty legalistic...is that fair to say?..It sounds like that when I listen to him....I definitely see his point ..he is encouraging people to depend on the indwelling Christ as their life and not the "church"..as many denominations seem to have church as their main life....
He's more about "being the church"..as opposed to "doing the church"..I understand what he is trying to say there..
I went to a church after I got saved that the going to church was basically God...the pastor was their substitute foe the Lord and the works you did around the church was their substitute for the Holy Spirit. They loved the Lord but made " going to church" an idol really. They were well meaning people...just had developed a religion.
The Lord will find people for us to connect with s part of the body of Christ. I know what you mean tho...some people have gone overboard and don't have any dealings with Christians.
We need each other as this world gets darker and darker..He will be faithful and put us where He sees fit for us...
He's more about "being the church"..as opposed to "doing the church"..I understand what he is trying to say there..
I went to a church after I got saved that the going to church was basically God...the pastor was their substitute foe the Lord and the works you did around the church was their substitute for the Holy Spirit. They loved the Lord but made " going to church" an idol really. They were well meaning people...just had developed a religion.
The Lord will find people for us to connect with s part of the body of Christ. I know what you mean tho...some people have gone overboard and don't have any dealings with Christians.
We need each other as this world gets darker and darker..He will be faithful and put us where He sees fit for us...
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That's exactly right. It's become about relationship, not holiness and righteousness. Here's a quote from a previously mentioned 'grace' teacher.
"The great responsibility, the great privilege we have is not to serve Him, but that we can know Him."
But how do we know GOD? By serving him.
And by this we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. The one who says “I know him,” and does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in this person. 1 John 2:3-4
So for these people knowing GOD has become a state-of-mind experience achieved through practicing 'grace' talking points, rather than the witness of the abiding sanctification of the holy spirit achieved through obedience to his commandments.
"The great responsibility, the great privilege we have is not to serve Him, but that we can know Him."
But how do we know GOD? By serving him.
And by this we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. The one who says “I know him,” and does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in this person. 1 John 2:3-4
So for these people knowing GOD has become a state-of-mind experience achieved through practicing 'grace' talking points, rather than the witness of the abiding sanctification of the holy spirit achieved through obedience to his commandments.
A phrase comes to mind about psychopaths.
They appear the most gracious, empathetic caring people around, but it is just an act.
The people who know them have no clue that they are so cut off and empty.
Those who murder as serial killers often have active partners who have no clue.
It is the behaviour of people, their actions that matter and the words and ideas they encourage.
Once you are into "I get a sense of blessing" or "I get a sense of evil" you have crossed over into superstition. In christ we carry peace, joy, love, praise. It is not the presence of evil that disturbs us, because it is actually irrelevant.
When Stephen was stoned, did he say I sense evil here, or I see Jesus at the right hand of the Father.
One of the worst social things you can do to anyone is surround them with rejection because of the vibe that you see. In new age spirituality they talk like this all the time, and it is the total rubbish you think it is and nothing to do with Christ.
They appear the most gracious, empathetic caring people around, but it is just an act.
The people who know them have no clue that they are so cut off and empty.
Those who murder as serial killers often have active partners who have no clue.
It is the behaviour of people, their actions that matter and the words and ideas they encourage.
Once you are into "I get a sense of blessing" or "I get a sense of evil" you have crossed over into superstition. In christ we carry peace, joy, love, praise. It is not the presence of evil that disturbs us, because it is actually irrelevant.
When Stephen was stoned, did he say I sense evil here, or I see Jesus at the right hand of the Father.
One of the worst social things you can do to anyone is surround them with rejection because of the vibe that you see. In new age spirituality they talk like this all the time, and it is the total rubbish you think it is and nothing to do with Christ.
Dear reader, I just want to highlight something.
Some contributors are pointing out heresy and apostacy in various teachers, not linked to any particular contributors unless they openly agree with the teaching.
Now doing this is now called
"Some self proclaimed prophets deepest desire is to control and manipulate others through a supposed special relationship with God
Its really just witchcraft in one if it's many forms and the religion of fallen mankind"
Now as one contributor describes their view on theology is like looking through a lens which changes the meaning of everything.
So rather than this being a description of people standing up to "hyper-grace" it is 100% what the hyper-grace followers are doing.
The trouble is once you go down this tunnel, rather than appreciating diversity, you see everything through this fish bowl and claim everyone else is doing the exact opposite of what you are doing which by implication is evil, rather than waking up to the reality you have just distorted the Word of God.
The best sign of this is when Gods word is quoted at you, you call it of the enemy.
Some contributors are pointing out heresy and apostacy in various teachers, not linked to any particular contributors unless they openly agree with the teaching.
Now doing this is now called
"Some self proclaimed prophets deepest desire is to control and manipulate others through a supposed special relationship with God
Its really just witchcraft in one if it's many forms and the religion of fallen mankind"
Now as one contributor describes their view on theology is like looking through a lens which changes the meaning of everything.
So rather than this being a description of people standing up to "hyper-grace" it is 100% what the hyper-grace followers are doing.
The trouble is once you go down this tunnel, rather than appreciating diversity, you see everything through this fish bowl and claim everyone else is doing the exact opposite of what you are doing which by implication is evil, rather than waking up to the reality you have just distorted the Word of God.
The best sign of this is when Gods word is quoted at you, you call it of the enemy.
There is a reality which say blasphemy and apostacy do not matter.
We are called to separate ourselves from people who do such things. To not do this is called syncretism.
It is so bad if I say repent of your sins, this no longer has meaning.
The people claim they still confess their sins and still have standards but cannot point to any.
When challenged it is obvious what matters above all is just being positive and accepting the channeler who is speaking.
The wrong channeler brings the wrong spirit. The problem is this is spiritism and the occult.
And talking as if this makes things better, shows the faith they follow, though the language is christian the rules and structure are not.
Now there is little point debating the issues because the filter says if you are using moral or standards you are evil and a legalist, walking in the flesh. But this way of dealing with life will pass as it is defined and described.
The sad thing is us optimists would hope people would see the truth and walk with Jesus, but the opposite is probably true, most will go with the teachers, because they never truly met the Lord.
We are called to separate ourselves from people who do such things. To not do this is called syncretism.
It is so bad if I say repent of your sins, this no longer has meaning.
The people claim they still confess their sins and still have standards but cannot point to any.
When challenged it is obvious what matters above all is just being positive and accepting the channeler who is speaking.
The wrong channeler brings the wrong spirit. The problem is this is spiritism and the occult.
And talking as if this makes things better, shows the faith they follow, though the language is christian the rules and structure are not.
Now there is little point debating the issues because the filter says if you are using moral or standards you are evil and a legalist, walking in the flesh. But this way of dealing with life will pass as it is defined and described.
The sad thing is us optimists would hope people would see the truth and walk with Jesus, but the opposite is probably true, most will go with the teachers, because they never truly met the Lord.
S
Hello PeterJens. Couldn't agree more. Behavior and actions DO matter. As well as words and ideas that are encouraged.
So, if the hyper grace crowd believes that they can live any type lifestyle that they desire and still not go to hell for it then where is your evidence? You accuse Willie-T, Grace 777x70, ember, PennED, coby and others of believing this. And that if people believe this then they cannot but help live immoral, sin-filled, "live for the devil" lives then are you prepared to make a 'BIBLICAL' charge/accusation against any of them, right here, right now? If not, why not? According to your theory they should be unable to restrain themselves given their horrible belief system.
So either their belief in this causes them to sin prodigiously, and at will, or you need to explain to me why believing this way is not producing the expected results in their lives that you claim is the sole motivation for all these warnings. Are you prepared to make the accusation that their fruit is bad?
Evidence. Where is your evidence??
So, if the hyper grace crowd believes that they can live any type lifestyle that they desire and still not go to hell for it then where is your evidence? You accuse Willie-T, Grace 777x70, ember, PennED, coby and others of believing this. And that if people believe this then they cannot but help live immoral, sin-filled, "live for the devil" lives then are you prepared to make a 'BIBLICAL' charge/accusation against any of them, right here, right now? If not, why not? According to your theory they should be unable to restrain themselves given their horrible belief system.
So either their belief in this causes them to sin prodigiously, and at will, or you need to explain to me why believing this way is not producing the expected results in their lives that you claim is the sole motivation for all these warnings. Are you prepared to make the accusation that their fruit is bad?
Evidence. Where is your evidence??
It's evident in the teachings they are promoting. The teachers they are promoting. Their complete denial of scriptures condemning the teachings they follow. Discernment is a dying art. The fact that they defend known heretics is evidence against them. Examine the teachings behind the teachers. Many of us here have. And I'm not talking about watching videos we are accused of posting taking "their words out of context". We have watched full sermons and examined them exhaustively. I can at least speak for myself on this matter. They deny sin nature. They deny repentance. They redefine words like repentance and grace. They don't teach a biblical gospel. They promote carnality (health, wealth, power). I was watching a sermon from Prince the other day where he said "don't worry about that sin, put your faith in grace". They have created an idol out of grace and deny explicit warnings of false teachers. Most of the names you listed have publicly DENIED the existence of false teachers and false prophets.
Here we have undeniable evidence of blasphemies and heresies coming from the mouths of known heretics and these guys come on here and will defend them to the death if need be. They group them in with the brothers and sisters in Christ and they are not brothers and sisters (speaking of their leadership and not anyone here personally who may be in error). What has plagued modern Christianity is defended by people here like they are some new kind of prophets or apostles when they are nothing more than liars and thieves perverting the Gospel of Christ. They have flooded the forums with their teachings lately in a cult like fashion and someone has to stand up against it and defend the faith delivered once and for all.
Some known heresies being promoted here either directly or indirectly and being vehemently defended (failing to define these as heresies when asked plainly if they are heresies is as good as defending them):
Little gods doctrine
Health and wealth gospel
Spiritual death of Christ
Christ first born again man
Christ was created and then became divine later on
A gospel devoid of repentance
Excessive idolization of signs and wonders
A form of the 4th century Pelagian heresy
Sinless perfection
Excessive application of aberrant behavior to the Holy Spirit
We become Christ after salvation seated at the right hand of God
And on and on it goes
---
And to top it off, those of us who oppose these obvious heresies promoted by the leaders of these groups, we are called legalistic, are told we have "religious spirits", are demonic, are working by the spirit of antichrist, and are met with a lot of conjecture, unfounded accusation that aren't backed by evidences, and are insulted for merely pointing out these heresies to those who may not know about them.
Here we have undeniable evidence of blasphemies and heresies coming from the mouths of known heretics and these guys come on here and will defend them to the death if need be. They group them in with the brothers and sisters in Christ and they are not brothers and sisters (speaking of their leadership and not anyone here personally who may be in error). What has plagued modern Christianity is defended by people here like they are some new kind of prophets or apostles when they are nothing more than liars and thieves perverting the Gospel of Christ. They have flooded the forums with their teachings lately in a cult like fashion and someone has to stand up against it and defend the faith delivered once and for all.
Some known heresies being promoted here either directly or indirectly and being vehemently defended (failing to define these as heresies when asked plainly if they are heresies is as good as defending them):
Little gods doctrine
Health and wealth gospel
Spiritual death of Christ
Christ first born again man
Christ was created and then became divine later on
A gospel devoid of repentance
Excessive idolization of signs and wonders
A form of the 4th century Pelagian heresy
Sinless perfection
Excessive application of aberrant behavior to the Holy Spirit
We become Christ after salvation seated at the right hand of God
And on and on it goes
---
And to top it off, those of us who oppose these obvious heresies promoted by the leaders of these groups, we are called legalistic, are told we have "religious spirits", are demonic, are working by the spirit of antichrist, and are met with a lot of conjecture, unfounded accusation that aren't backed by evidences, and are insulted for merely pointing out these heresies to those who may not know about them.
I'm saying they are, at least in part, promoters of the doctrines listed above. Willie has denied the existence of false prophets and teachers within the church. Just about every thread and in many posts that are not on his threads, Grace777 copy/pastes directly from Joseph Prince's website. Coby defends some of the false teachers and rightly condemns others as teaching heresy. Willie is extremely disrespectful at times, calling people idiots, mentally ill, and the like.
As for ember. Just reading her blatant disregard for civil conversation speaks for itself. She is rude, disrespectful, thinks she knows everything, and has no issue belittling and insulting anyone who disagrees with her.
As for ember. Just reading her blatant disregard for civil conversation speaks for itself. She is rude, disrespectful, thinks she knows everything, and has no issue belittling and insulting anyone who disagrees with her.
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S
You're back to telling me what everybody already knows. They blather on about damnable heresies. I'm not disputing that for sake of this discussion. In other words, I accepting the premise.
I'm also accepting the premise that following such doctrines of devils will produce unrighteous living. This is I believe what you guys claim? Fair?
So why not the sin-filled lives from the adherents? Its really simple straight-forward question.
BTW, I appreciate the summary above. Have already turned it into a text file.
If these damnable heresies produce corrupt lives, why aren't they corrupt?
I'm also accepting the premise that following such doctrines of devils will produce unrighteous living. This is I believe what you guys claim? Fair?
So why not the sin-filled lives from the adherents? Its really simple straight-forward question.
BTW, I appreciate the summary above. Have already turned it into a text file.
If these damnable heresies produce corrupt lives, why aren't they corrupt?
S
I am going to tell you what my honest opinion is. The people 'out there'. The unbelievers. The people everybody claims that they are defending fro each other, aren't worried about nuances of TV evangelist theology. They come along a thread like this and they think "Man, those f-n Christians. They tell us that we're going to Hell and they don't even know who is and isn't. And the way that they treat each other... its worse than us. What a bunch of goofballs." You really think that they care what your take is on the Trinity, pre-destination or any of the weightier matters of scripture when this is their introduction to the faith? Seriously? They don't even know what the blasphemers are talking about.
I will not even suggest that some of the most egregious frauds out there don't do damage. But I do not, honestly, think that they even get the chance to influence nearly as many people that something like this does. I could be very wrong, but I am confident that I am not.
So while I think the debate could be healthy, that ship sailed a long time ago. But nobody seemed to notice. I did.
To me, it seems the debate is not equal to "holiness or not holiness" but as to Who's holiness will the respective (not RESPECTFUL!) individuals trust in... their own or Christ's? Now I am sure that the holiness crowd will say that their holiness comes from Christ. Not saying it doesn't.
All I am saying is that this constant bickering is not going to achieve the intended result, IMO. And it dishonors Christ.
But giving an honest listen to your side's argument, I came up with this genuine question of my own. Why doesn't the wrong believing produce wrong living to rephrase one of Prince's slogans. And I do not have an answer myself nor do I really expect to get one.
I will not even suggest that some of the most egregious frauds out there don't do damage. But I do not, honestly, think that they even get the chance to influence nearly as many people that something like this does. I could be very wrong, but I am confident that I am not.
So while I think the debate could be healthy, that ship sailed a long time ago. But nobody seemed to notice. I did.
To me, it seems the debate is not equal to "holiness or not holiness" but as to Who's holiness will the respective (not RESPECTFUL!) individuals trust in... their own or Christ's? Now I am sure that the holiness crowd will say that their holiness comes from Christ. Not saying it doesn't.
All I am saying is that this constant bickering is not going to achieve the intended result, IMO. And it dishonors Christ.
But giving an honest listen to your side's argument, I came up with this genuine question of my own. Why doesn't the wrong believing produce wrong living to rephrase one of Prince's slogans. And I do not have an answer myself nor do I really expect to get one.