Holiness or sinner

[PeterJens]

EG I try not to speak on behalf of others, I just share what is on my heart. I know people listen to what I have shared because they tell me so. And that ofcourse matters, like I appreciate what others share.

You do not respect either my position in beliefs or who I am. That is sad, because I do not wish anything than discussion of simple ideas, which you turn into something else. That is disappointing, but I meet many disappointing people in life.

I would be better to simply ignore you because you add nothing to what I am sharing or even understand how to discuss it. That just leads no where, as I have zero engagement which you choose to pursue. But that is your choice.
I just praise God for this day and the opportunity again to praise His name and great salvation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You have a odd way of interpreting what people say. You are implying something that was not there. The seed and the sower is a parable. Part of it is being swamped by wealth and the worries of this world.
This must touch a nerve in you, because I quoted this as an example of problems Christ is saying believers have and fail with. You love polarised language. Maybe you do not love Jesus, because I do, and I listen to His words.

See what I mean,

the comment you responded to was my response to you saying

"in my world, I do not want you to be saved"

Those were slanderous words. It has nothing to do with the seed.

You never listen to anyone, thats why you never understand or get what people are trying to show you.

I hope where ever you are in your crazy mind that you have a good day, love your kids and wife and find the Lord blessing you because everyday the Lord blesses and encourages me, to which I say amen, Praise the Lord for Jesus and the Cross.

My Hope is that you stop misrepresenting Gods love, And actually take his love into you life, so you can be saved

My hope is that you realize you are in an ocean, shipwrecked, and in danger of eternal hellfire if you are not rescued (saved) by the blood of the lamb.

Sadly, I fear you have been to indoctrinated into some religion, That the possibility of that happening goes slimmer every day.

I mean think of it, You think you need a house,, Not rescued, That says it all.. Yet you do not see the difference..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

VVe have to make room for mercy, as well.


James 2:13 King James Version (KJV)

13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

It seems His mercy triumphs over His judgement and yet it doesn't taint His justice and sovereignty. Even so, consider the woman caught in adultery. Jesus didn't condemn her, though under the law she was to be put to death. I just read an article that made a very good point. The reason He didn't condemn her was that He was to pay her penalty on that cross. God wasn't being unjust, no He fully planned to punish this sin to the full extent of the law (as the article said). Only it would be through Christ's sacrifice.

exactly

He did not save her because she stopped her sin.

He saved her because he would pay the ultimate price for her sin.

Thats where Peter does not get it, or Herose or people like them.

They think they can pay for their own sin, Or their sin does not stink..

Either way, they are rejecting the grace of God. thus rejecting God himself.

 

[Grace777x70]

There has been in our western mentality such a mixing of the Old Covenant with the New Covenant that the true gospel Paul preached has been watered down and reduced to a mere shadow of what it really is. BUT the Lord is bringing it back in it's true power and strength. Then the manifestation of the love and grace of God will be seen in this world and many in the world will want Him when they finally see Hi for who He is and what He has done already for us all.

You're welcome. It's guys like Mike who make me feel so very sorry for people who dis the studying of what others have learned. It's things like being shown those two words Paul deliberately left out (just as Jesus did when He quoted Isaiah) that make me so thankful God gave us teachers who see so much more than we do.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG I try not to speak on behalf of others, I just share what is on my heart.

So when you said no one sees it my way, or my experience does not match anyone elses, You were not speaking for them, Just yourself.

Well of Course, I knew that already,,

but I also am not foolish enough to know you meant to speak for everyone, even thouogh here yuo deny it,

so here you go being a hypocrite again..

I know people listen to what I have shared because they tell me so. And that ofcourse matters, like I appreciate what others share.

You do not respect either my position in beliefs or who I am. That is sad, because I do not wish anything than discussion of simple ideas, which you turn into something else. That is disappointing, but I meet many disappointing people in life.

I would be better to simply ignore you because you add nothing to what I am sharing or even understand how to discuss it. That just leads no where, as I have zero engagement which you choose to pursue. But that is your choice.
I just praise God for this day and the opportunity again to praise His name and great salvation.

I do not respect the way you treat God.

There I said it.

But I have been saying it since day one.

You keep proving, It is all about you. When do you ever give any praise to God?

And do not be a hypocrite. You disrespect me everytime you say I believe somethign I don't. You disrespect me every time you say I said something i never said, You disrespect me every time you try to put me into one of your categories (like Calvin)

You have no right to judge someone, and say they disrespect you, when you do it every time you speak.

 

[phil36]

Speaking of what makes us Holy........

I have absolutely no doubt that probably none of you will listen to this all the way through. And I don't expect that..... because few of you would get it, anyway. LOL

But I also know there are several thinkers in here, so you might enjoy listening for ten minutes, or so, beginning at minute 27
He really hits it very clearly at around minute 32...... and is quite emphatic for at least the next five minutes.

There are five of these videos in this Galatians series (just in case someone really cares... this one is #3)

[video=youtube;Vq1kWhAnPHU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vq1kWhAnPHU[/video]

This mans exegesis is so bad it is embarrassing... The first few moments of this video gives us a clue, I love how he smoothly morphs all jewish christians into his vilified form. But nothing new there either!

On your advice willie I skipped to around the 27 mark and onwards. I must admit, it got harder and harder to listen to his bad interpritations. Galations v11??? rectified? When he gets to verse 13, it starts to become laughable.. Oh, and how we have all missed this for atleast 400 years? It takes the new progressive social gospel types to reveal the real message to us.? I think he just about includes everone who got it wrong..the reformers, evangelicals and even hyper grace guys (finished works grace people -his words).


He can't even get the view of the NP right.

Theres nothing new here just erroneous teaching.

 

[Willie-T]

This mans exegesis is so bad it is embarrassing... The first few moments of this video gives us a clue, I love how he smoothly morphs all jewish christians into his vilified form. But nothing new there either!

On your advice willie I skipped to around the 27 mark and onwards. I must admit, it got harder and harder to listen to his bad interpritations. Galations v11??? rectified? When he gets to verse 13, it starts to become laughable.. Oh, and how we have all missed this for atleast 400 years? It takes the new progressive social gospel types to reveal the real message to us.? I think he just about includes everone who got it wrong..the reformers, evangelicals and even hyper grace guys (finished works grace people -his words).


He can't even get the view of the NP right.

Theres nothing new here just erroneous teaching.

I told you that many wouldn't get it.

 

[phil36]

I told you that many wouldn't get it.

I certainly got what he was trying to say.. As I say erroneous and nothing new.

 

[Willie-T]

I certainly got what he was trying to say.. As I say erroneous and nothing new.

Oh, I certainly didn't mean you don't understand English. He speaks very simply and logically that way. I meant that many people wouldn't be able to step out of their preconceptions to actually hear what he is saying. Much of what he talks about doesn't fit what it is supposed to fit for them.

 

[phil36]

Oh, I certainly didn't mean you don't understand English. He speaks very simply and logically that way. I meant that many people wouldn't be able to step out of their preconceptions to actually hear what he is saying. Much of what he talks about doesn't fit what it is supposed to fit for them.

I agree he certainly explains his eisegesis very well and simply.

Sadly he is not faithful to the scriptural witness (you can call that a reconception if you wish)...... and possibly history (watch and listen very careful, just the first few moments).

As I say, he is not saying anything new. The errors he is preaching have been round for a long time... repackaged into a socio-economic gospel.

 

[Willie-T]

I agree he certainly explains his eisegesis very well and simply.

Sadly he is not faithful to the scriptural witness (you can call that a reconception if you wish)...... and possibly history (watch and listen very careful, just the first few moments).

As I say, he is not saying anything new. The errors he is preaching have been round for a long time... repackaged into a socio-economic gospel.

If something "being around for a long time" makes it wrong, then most of what we have been taught would be wrong. I would have expected you to say, "Aw, this is just new stuff, and that makes it wrong." Either way, it just isn't something you want to hear. And that is fine. You don't have to.

 

[phil36]

If something "being around for a long time" makes it wrong, then most of what we have been taught would be wrong. I would have expected you to say, "Aw, this is just new stuff, and that makes it wrong." Either way, it just isn't something you want to hear. And that is fine. You don't have to.

Hi Willie,

I am glad I heard it (again), just makes us remindful that there is nothing really new and to stay alert. Erroneous teaching comes and goes in many guises, but very rarely anything new, usually just repackaged to fit the time related culture it is speaking to.

 

[PeterJens]

"in my world, I do not want you to be saved"
Those were slanderous words. It has nothing to do with the seed.

I did not write this. If I did not write it, how can it be slanderous. You keep on saying I am not saved. You would think after months of saying this I would understand your point.

It is an interesting point you are raising though not actually saying it properly. None of us know at what point the Holy Spirit indwells us. For most it is a point where they commit themselves to God and ask for His forgiveness and believe on Jesus.
There is the prayer of repentance, sometimes spoken in private, sometimes in public. For me there were many such experiences spread over many years. Some where I was praising the Lord where emotionally exstatic. Other time it was like a massive infilling of grace. Another time I was singing in the Spirit.

Jesus seems to imply in the walk He will come and dwell with us. And you know the funniest thing is no matter what I share from my past, and the blessings the Lord has brought, different moves of God, you will just deny it all because you do not like my theology. Now I did not pick this fight or argument yet I am constantly blamed for it. It is like a bully going up to someone and punching them and telling them off for saying ow. Now it does upset me, but then again you know that, or else you would not persist. But maybe that is how you get converts, try and jump on them from a great height and see what happens. Does not really work very well.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull "in my world, I do not want you to be saved"
Those were slanderous words. It has nothing to do with the seed.

I did not write this.

In your world I cannot be saved, .

Dude, You need to start being more honest.

 

[Budman]

Let me give you my version.

1. God offers his heart and home to people
2. A number take up the offer and move in
3. A few decide it is not for them and choose to leave
4. The faithful know their Father and their Father knows them and they walk with Him into eternity

You can't "walk away" because salvation isn't based on what we've done, or even what we do. It's based entirely on what Christ did on our behalf: (Galatians 2:16, Ephesians 2:8-9, 2 Timothy 1:9, Romans 3:27, 4:4-6, 11:5-6, John 6:28-29, Titus 3:5)

According to Jesus, He; "gives (us) eternal life, and they shall never perish" (John 10:27-28)

According to you; they can walk away and perish.

According to Jesus, He said; "I shall lose none of all that He (the Father) has given me." (John 6:39)

According to you: Some can, and will be lost after being saved.

According to the Bible, Jesus will: "carry on the good work began in believers to completion." (Philippians 1;6)

According to you: The work for some will not be carried on to completion.

According to the Bible, the believers inheritance will never perish, spoil, or fade, and is kept by the power of God in heaven. (1 Peter 1:3-5)

According to you, a believers inheritance can perish, spoil, fade, and for some, will not be kept in heaven by the power of God.

According to the Bible, believers are sealed by the Holy Spirit, which is a deposit guaranteeing our salvation. (Ephesians 1:13-14, 4:30)

According to you: Believers can be "unsealed" because salvation is not guaranteed.

According to the Bible, believers will be saved, despite no works, or poor works. (1 Corinthians 3:14-15)

According to you; Believers can lose salvation based upon no works, or poor works.

According to Jesus, believers "have everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment." (John 5:24)

According to you; Believers can be lost, and will once again come into judgment.

According to the Bible, a believers lack of faith will not nullify God's faithfulness. (Romans 3:3)

According to you; lack of faith in a believer will nullify God's faithfulness.

According to the Bible, Jesus is able to save a believer completely. (Hebrews 7:25)

According to you; Jesus can not save completely, because salvation can be lost.

According to Jesus, he will "remember their (believers) sins, no more." (Hebrews 10:17)

According to you, a believer can be lost, thus Jesus will indeed remember their sins again.

According to the Bible, the Lord will "never count our sins against" us. (Romans 4:8)

According to you; A believer can be lost, and Jesus will, once again, count their sins against them.

You need to accept the fact that God's Word is correct, and you are in error.

 

[PeterJens]

I told you that many wouldn't get it.

I dug around a bit more about Michael Hardin. It seems there has been a kind of theological split between two views of God, the legal court room idea and the more loving relationship view. I was unaware of this split, but people have written a lot about it. As you may imagine I am going more for the relationship view, with emotional aspects and leanings.

Calling people anti-Christ is always provocative, but then some called me that months back. The problem with all these positions, is there are shades of grey, but the writers of the documents are always the most dedicated and will polarise the positions to make it more clear who is who, when the actually discussions may have been more clear.

It is interesting Michael mentions the predominance of demons and spiritual authorities, as bringing in the wrong emphasis to the gospel. I begin to realise unfortunately to get a better insight into peoples blessings and perspectives takes time, so patience is a good thing.

Thankyou for introducing another perspective, it helps to see what is out there before running off thinking one has it all nailed down.

 

[PeterJens]

"In your world I cannot be saved, because I do not think like you."

This is the only quote I wrote. What I am saying is simple. I know spiritually what I am and where I have been.
You talk about something that is very much in your head and not something I relate to. Some do here. You bounce along with your conclusions, but unless they are actually true, it has no impact.

Now if I felt and thought like you, I might well repent and be convinced of your words. But none of them chime with me.
I have never been rules orientated or a legalist or trying to work my salvation. Repeating these points does not make them true. I remember years ago, thinking premelenial tribulation was the thing. Until I got really rebuked by the Lord about basing a gospel on fear and adding to revelations. It just did not speak to my spirit.

Now I do not know if you can accept this, by making stuff up does not work either. Either the words speak to someone or they do not. Now Jesus and the cross matter to me above everything else. But you have a logical brain pattern that says, that must be a lie else he would be OSAS. But this is where you have to start to actually believe people and not apply theology to peoples experience. Theology are ideas, experiences are real. It is why if people do not know what love is the gospel means nothing. And your ideas even try and strip me of my understanding of love. Do you know how bad that actually is? It is like saying someones soul is evil, when that is the most beautiful part of who they are.

So I am glad I know Jesus, and you have no clue what you are doing. For a young christian your words would be devastating. I write this for others because however you turn it, it will be something totally different. I have never met someone like you before, but I cannot conceive of something more intended to break someone rather than love someone, which has been your intended approach. What is staggering is you do not know this is not of Christ or His spirit, and I would never do to anybody.

This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands.
1 John 5:2


Just then a man in their synagogue who was possessed by an impure spirit cried out, “What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of God!”
Mark 1:23-24

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I dug around a bit more about Michael Hardin. It seems there has been a kind of theological split between two views of God, the legal court room idea and the more loving relationship view. I was unaware of this split, but people have written a lot about it. As you may imagine I am going more for the relationship view, with emotional aspects and leanings.

Calling people anti-Christ is always provocative, but then some called me that months back. The problem with all these positions, is there are shades of grey, but the writers of the documents are always the most dedicated and will polarise the positions to make it more clear who is who, when the actually discussions may have been more clear.

It is interesting Michael mentions the predominance of demons and spiritual authorities, as bringing in the wrong emphasis to the gospel. I begin to realise unfortunately to get a better insight into peoples blessings and perspectives takes time, so patience is a good thing.

Thankyou for introducing another perspective, it helps to see what is out there before running off thinking one has it all nailed down.

Isn't Michael Hardin an emergent church teacher? 'nuff said.

 

[PeterJens]

You can't "walk away" because salvation isn't based on what we've done

Let me turn this around a bit. If you meet Christ and your heart is changed you are in the Kingdom. You know this is life, you are changed, everything has become something real, you know how things work, purity, righteousness, salvation, spiritual authority, the resurrection, the cross, Gods heart. In a very real sense there is no reason to walk away, to go back to death and lostness. It would be suicide, or rediculous. From the beginning of time we are chosen and known.

Now this I know. But I also know people on this journey who are no more. Some who appear to have embraced the faith but gone off on tangents, which I would put some here is this catagory. Where they chosen from the beginning, or just liked the path? But I am just called to walk and share, to be a part of the body.

But I could walk away, but that is the point, I am not going to. Now the real conumdrum is people here are saying actually I am doomed to hell already because I have not believed on Jesus is exactly the right way. All I got to say is tosh. We all have crazy ideas about Jesus, which become clearer as we walk. The important thing is the following, and obedience.

The only thing it comes down to me is gifts of love that I share. You can believe what you want, I just share my heart. If you can do this and be real, and walk with Jesus, let me shake your hand brother and sister, and let us walk on in fellowship to His glory. So much does not matter, yet so much in peoples lives needs healing and dealing with that stops God moving, it would break your heart, but people are very stubborn and blind. But hey, I can only share.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You can't "walk away" because salvation isn't based on what we've done, or even what we do. It's based entirely on what Christ did on our behalf: (Galatians 2:16, Ephesians 2:8-9, 2 Timothy 1:9, Romans 3:27, 4:4-6, 11:5-6, John 6:28-29, Titus 3:5)

Justification isn't based on what we've done, but only those who do the will of GOD will be saved.