Holiness or sinner

[PeterJens]

God still loves them,, Please do not insult God like that..

And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Rev 20:10

Now God is love. But love still gets angry, and burns with justice and righteous vengance.
Now God is not forgiving of those in the lake of fire, and never will be.

When we talk of love towards man, we often mean it in the sense of forgiveness and the opportunity of salvation.
Now God does not stop being who He is, but he has declared destruction is eternal in Hell.

You appear to be suggesting something else. If not please correct me, because all I am sharing is my understanding of Gods intentions. You are suggesting I am insulting God. Please show me how. I think you are just demonstrating you do not understand the issues and are out of your depth.

 

[Willie-T]

Speaking of what makes us Holy........

I have absolutely no doubt that probably none of you will listen to this all the way through. And I don't expect that..... because few of you would get it, anyway. LOL

But I also know there are several thinkers in here, so you might enjoy listening for ten minutes, or so, beginning at minute 27
He really hits it very clearly at around minute 32...... and is quite emphatic for at least the next five minutes.

There are five of these videos in this Galatians series (just in case someone really cares... this one is #3)

[video=youtube;Vq1kWhAnPHU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vq1kWhAnPHU[/video]

 

[PeterJens]

Your view of Gods love,

1. God adopts a child
2. Child does not live up to Gods standard (whatever standard you happen to impose)
3. God kicks child out of his family

Please stop. You do not have a bigger view of Gods love than most people in here.. You view of Gods love is tainted, and human.

Let me give you my version.

1. God offers his heart and home to people
2. A number take up the offer and move in
3. A few decide it is not for them and choose to leave
4. The faithful know their Father and their Father knows them and they walk with Him into eternity

It is the offer of a home, that people try but reject.
God allows people to find out and learn of Him, but some stumble off the path.

What is obvious is the apostles testify to this very thing happening in their fellowships, and we all experience similar things with friends and family. Yet it appears some here cannot accept what is before their eyes and in scripture but need there doctrine because it makes everything safe. Nothing in life is safe, it is all about commitment and loyalty.

It is also strange those who claim God is eternally loyal to them, are free to allow themselves the ability to be disloyal and to betray their King and still be called faithful friends of God.

 

[PeterJens]

One thing that comes to my mind "Nothing is as it seems"

I have met some of the most dedicated christians, but cross them, and you are dirt. On the other side there are meek and mild people who faithfully follow and in their weakness give all they can, the Lord shines out of them. My granny was one of them, and which is one reason I knew what love was in Jesus.

I know emotional reality is deeper than just words, and who people are in the secret place often reveals the truth of who they are in public. It is why God puts so much store in praying in private, in giving in secret, in being the same unseen as you are with others. So I know this medium is not a good one to convey so much of the heart and reality, because in words people can create things that simply do not exist and are very different than their real lives and relationships.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Rev 20:10

Now God is love. But love still gets angry, and burns with justice and righteous vengance.
Now God is not forgiving of those in the lake of fire, and never will be.

When we talk of love towards man, we often mean it in the sense of forgiveness and the opportunity of salvation.
Now God does not stop being who He is, but he has declared destruction is eternal in Hell.

You appear to be suggesting something else. If not please correct me, because all I am sharing is my understanding of Gods intentions. You are suggesting I am insulting God. Please show me how. I think you are just demonstrating you do not understand the issues and are out of your depth.

You do not get it at all. I guess it does not surprise me all.

If Gods love could have been enough, He would have ignored our sin and just saved us all. But God is also perfect justice, His justice can not over rule his love, For it is perfect (unlike human judges, God is perfect in his judgmnets, Just like unlike Human love, God is perfect in his love)

But Gods love did find a way, It is called the cross.

Gods judgment does not stop Gods love, Gods love will always be in effect. It is just Gods love can ot overturn Gods judgment


If you or I stood before God right now. Which all we are, We would be rightly, and perfectly judged by Gods justice as sinners. And because of that we would have earned a spot right next to satan and his angels in hell.

However, Gods love steps in, Jesus goes between us and the justice of God, and says wait, I took this persons judgment and paid it myself. So you cannot judge this person, He is innocent..

That is perfect love, that is perfect sacrifice, that is the gospel and the hope that all who are adopted as Gods children and given the right to be his sons place our faith in.


Until you realize, that you and I (and every man woman and child who ever walked the earth) are just as guilty, where we stand, and will be just as guilty when we all face Christ, You will never understand Gods true love or grace.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Let me give you my version.

1. God offers his heart and home to people
2. A number take up the offer and move in
3. A few decide it is not for them and choose to leave
4. The faithful know their Father and their Father knows them and they walk with Him into eternity

It is the offer of a home, that people try but reject.
God allows people to find out and learn of Him, but some stumble off the path.

What is obvious is the apostles testify to this very thing happening in their fellowships, and we all experience similar things with friends and family. Yet it appears some here cannot accept what is before their eyes and in scripture but need there doctrine because it makes everything safe. Nothing in life is safe, it is all about commitment and loyalty.

It is also strange those who claim God is eternally loyal to them, are free to allow themselves the ability to be disloyal and to betray their King and still be called faithful friends of God.

see you do not get it,

God is not offering us some home, We are in the middle of the ocean, Drowning, And if we are not rescued, we will perish for all eternity.

God offers to save us

AFTER he saves us, Then he can offer us a home.

You just proved me right, you do not know what you look like in Gods eyes, You think you just need a home, God says you need saved. A home will do you no good.. You will perish, unless you repent and recieve his GIFT. Period.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

One thing that comes to my mind "Nothing is as it seems"

I have met some of the most dedicated christians, but cross them, and you are dirt. On the other side there are meek and mild people who faithfully follow and in their weakness give all they can, the Lord shines out of them. My granny was one of them, and which is one reason I knew what love was in Jesus.

I know emotional reality is deeper than just words, and who people are in the secret place often reveals the truth of who they are in public. It is why God puts so much store in praying in private, in giving in secret, in being the same unseen as you are with others. So I know this medium is not a good one to convey so much of the heart and reality, because in words people can create things that simply do not exist and are very different than their real lives and relationships.

I know athiests who can be the most loving people around. More loving than many so called christians.

You keep looking on the outside. Thats why you can;t see it, You never look on the inside..

 

[gb9]

I know athiests who can be the most loving people around. More loving than many so called christians.

You keep looking on the outside. Thats why you can;t see it, You never look on the inside..

and this is how they see their relationship with God : it is up to me to keep myself saved. me, me. I .I. not focused on Christ, focused on self-effort. maybe one day that focus will change.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

and this is how they see their relationship with God : it is up to me to keep myself saved. me, me. I .I. not focused on Christ, focused on self-effort. maybe one day that focus will change.

It did for Saul/Paul and nicodemus

We can pray it will for them also.

 

[PeterJens]

You do not get it at all.

My friend. We were talking about Gods love directed to those after the day of judgement.
I clearly said Gods love in terms of forgiveness and open to salvation has ceased.

You did not answer this but went off on something else. As I have said, you are not dealing with what you appeared to be saying. You appear like a schizophrenic going back to an argument they understand because the current one has failed.

Not going to get you anywhere. You are not talking about me, so this imaginary person of your mind means nothing to me, so I wonder why you write this stuff. For you audience who do not even read your long lecture.

 

[PeterJens]

see you do not get it,

God is not offering us some home, We are in the middle of the ocean, Drowning, And if we are not rescued, we will perish for all eternity.

God offers to save us

AFTER he saves us, Then he can offer us a home.

You just proved me right, you do not know what you look like in Gods eyes, You think you just need a home, God says you need saved. A home will do you no good.. You will perish, unless you repent and recieve his GIFT. Period.

The trouble with your view, is it does not match peoples experience. The seed and the sower does.
I have met many christians for whom wealth has muffled their faith with the worries of the world.

In your world I cannot be saved, because I do not think like you. Now the conumdrum you will have to face, welcome to the world. There are many people who think differently to you, but some are saved and some not. Thankfully it is Gods work and His insight. Can you live with this? It seems not.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

My friend. We were talking about Gods love directed to those after the day of judgement.
I clearly said Gods love in terms of forgiveness and open to salvation has ceased.

Gods love does not stop there. It is to late to be forgiven, your right, But that does not mean Gods love stops.

You did not answer this but went off on something else. As I have said, you are not dealing with what you appeared to be saying. You appear like a schizophrenic going back to an argument they understand because the current one has failed.

I did answer that.

You said Gods love stops

I said, no it does not,,

Period.

Not going to get you anywhere. You are not talking about me, so this imaginary person of your mind means nothing to me, so I wonder why you write this stuff. For you audience who do not even read your long lecture.

Long lecture, I am not lecturing.. Is that what you think?

And yes, I was talking about you You said Gods love stopped. I said no it did not, and explained why..

Unless you changed you mind, and you agree with me, that Gods love still is in effect, even though he has to judge those people?

 

[Tresnouveau_ne]

Are we Holy is Christ or cleansed sinners?

Is the water from Christ pure, without stain or contamination?
Is Gods way without blemish, clean, washed and clean?

The High priest had to get specially washed to enter the holy of hollies.

Now we have problems and issues in life when we first start walking with Christ.
We have so much to learn, and lots of things to be healed of, new things to become.

Now when talking about these subjects often we talk in polarised terms to make our position more clear.
Some think the other side is them, rather than just a way of displaying differences.

My feeling in the Lord is we are never stationary but always learning and going from one position to another.
A friend in a bible study remembers when she first danced in private before the Lord in worship.
She does not feel like that now, yet there is a longing as if it should be there.

This demonstrates how difficult it is to get used to becoming something different and then continuing to grow and change, but all the reference points have now moved. We are now in a different land with different people because we are now older, maturer and we are leading more than following.

In this wonder, is there a place to feel rejected, or rather there is only a place to wonder at His richness, what a King.

"A friend in a bible study remembers when she first danced in private before the Lord in worship.
She does not feel like that now, yet there is a longing as if it should be there.

This demonstrates how difficult it is to get used to becoming something different and then continuing to grow and change, but all the reference points have now moved."

Best two thought provoking sentences for me. Thanks.

 

[PeterJens]

EG - You do make me laugh. Gods love stops towards those who are in Hell.
One view of hell is an eternity without love, only an absence of God. You obviously do not like this idea, fine.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The trouble with your view, is it does not match peoples experience.

well no, it does not meet your experience. and those like you. FOr for those of us who have been saved, It meets our experience, that's why we have faith in God, and why we will never stop loving or trusting God. We know where we came from ,We know WE NEEDED SAVED,

You do not even think you need saved, you just need a house.. Thats why you can not experience it.

The seed and the sower does.

I have met many christians for whom wealth has muffled their faith with the worries of the world.

In your world I cannot be saved,

See, there you go slandering me again, Why do you never listen to anyone? Why do you keep making a upirself look bad because you never listen to a word people say.?

You can get saved, I hope and pray you get saved right here and right now.. All I can do is plant the seed, God will water it, But you have to recieve it, or it will do you no good.

because I do not think like you.

Half the people in here do not think like me, yet we are brothers and sisters in Christ, Because our foundation is in him, not in our good deeds and how righteous we think we are.

Now the conumdrum you will have to face, welcome to the world. There are many people who think differently to you, but some are saved and some not. Thankfully it is Gods work and His insight. Can you live with this? It seems not.

Conundrum? See you just made yourself look bad again, Because you assumed things which were not true, FInny how I just said the very same thing you said, before I even read this comment

I have to laugh,, You seem to be a smart man, You seem to be a man who loves people.. But you can;t get out of your own way and listen to someone so you can know what they think. And that sadly includes God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG - You do make me laugh. Gods love stops towards those who are in Hell.
One view of hell is an eternity without love, only an absence of God. You obviously do not like this idea, fine.

Thats what satan wants you to think Peter.

That keeps you from knowning Gods true love

Gods love never stopped. His justice just took over, Like I said, Gods love can not overturn Gods justice.

God did not save me because he just loved me, His justice would still win, He is perfect.

God saved me because he paid the penalty I owe, And God excepted his redemptive act, and offered it to me, I just said, Yes lord, Thank you , I must have this gift.

 

[Grace777x70]

I watched the video and you and I have talked about this before...about the penal substitution theory. We both agree. I liked how he showed how Paul left out words from the Old Testament ...I noticed that Paul did that as well in Romans 10. I liked how there are 2 voices I the Old Covenant..one of blessing and one of the curse...thanks for the video.

Speaking of what makes us Holy........

I have absolutely no doubt that probably none of you will listen to this all the way through. And I don't expect that..... because few of you would get it, anyway. LOL

But I also know there are several thinkers in here, so you might enjoy listening for ten minutes, or so, beginning at minute 27
He really hits it very clearly at around minute 32...... and is quite emphatic for at least the next five minutes.

There are five of these videos in this Galatians series (just in case someone really cares... this one is #3)

[video=youtube;Vq1kWhAnPHU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vq1kWhAnPHU[/video]

 

[Willie-T]

I watched the video and you and I have talked about this before...about the penal substitution theory. We both agree. I liked how he showed how Paul left out words from the Old Testament ...I noticed that Paul did that as well in Romans 10. I liked how there are 2 voices I the Old Covenant..one of blessing and one of the curse...thanks for the video.

You're welcome. It's guys like Mike who make me feel so very sorry for people who dis the studying of what others have learned. It's things like being shown those two words Paul deliberately left out (just as Jesus did when He quoted Isaiah) that make me so thankful God gave us teachers who see so much more than we do.

 

[PeterJens]

See, there you go slandering me again, Why do you never listen to anyone? Why do you keep making a upirself look bad because you never listen to a word people say.?

You have a odd way of interpreting what people say. You are implying something that was not there. The seed and the sower is a parable. Part of it is being swamped by wealth and the worries of this world.
This must touch a nerve in you, because I quoted this as an example of problems Christ is saying believers have and fail with. You love polarised language. Maybe you do not love Jesus, because I do, and I listen to His words.

I hope where ever you are in your crazy mind that you have a good day, love your kids and wife and find the Lord blessing you because everyday the Lord blesses and encourages me, to which I say amen, Praise the Lord for Jesus and the Cross.

 

[BenFTW]

Thats what satan wants you to think Peter.

That keeps you from knowning Gods true love

Gods love never stopped. His justice just took over, Like I said, Gods love can not overturn Gods justice.

God did not save me because he just loved me, His justice would still win, He is perfect.

God saved me because he paid the penalty I owe, And God excepted his redemptive act, and offered it to me, I just said, Yes lord, Thank you , I must have this gift.

VVe have to make room for mercy, as well.


James 2:13 King James Version (KJV)

13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

It seems His mercy triumphs over His judgement and yet it doesn't taint His justice and sovereignty. Even so, consider the woman caught in adultery. Jesus didn't condemn her, though under the law she was to be put to death. I just read an article that made a very good point. The reason He didn't condemn her was that He was to pay her penalty on that cross. God wasn't being unjust, no He fully planned to punish this sin to the full extent of the law (as the article said). Only it would be through Christ's sacrifice.