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This is a great example of the blood of Jesus cleansing those of us that are committing this spiritual adultery by our self-effort because we are in the Light - which is Christ Himself.
It's time for us to grow up in Christ and walk by faith in what He has already done for us in His finished work.
And this scripture below will be offensive to them that are trying to be obedient by keeping the law and the doing of righteous deeds by self-effort and in "doing" things to "maintain" salvation instead of trusting in the life of Christ from within.
“How foolish can you be? After starting your new lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort?” Gal 3:3
Again HeRoseFromTheDead you do not understand.
James is NOT talking about Faith for Salvation, He is talking about the works we do like feeding and clothing people by our Faith. This Faith is after we receive Salvation. Not Faith for Salvation.
Ephesians 2:8,9
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; [SUP]9 [/SUP]not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Look carefully at this verse, it says not as a result of works. James says.
James 2:14
[SUP]4 [/SUP]What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works?
Are you saying HeRoseFromTheDead that God makes mistakes? Can God contradict Himself in the Scriptures?
We have an issue here. In one verse God says Salvation is not by works. In the other verse God says Faith is by works. The Faith in Ephesians is the Faith from God that allows us to believe Jesus is God and accept Him as our Lord and Savior. The Faith in James is the Faith we have from God for doing good works in His name, not for receiving Salvation.
You seen to have trouble understanding what God says. This is normal for someone who's a new Christian or someone who has never received Salvation. So which is it? Are you a new Christian or have you passed up on receiving Salvation?
Another thing about Ephesians if you read it again you will see that the Salvation we receive is a GIFT!
Ephesians 2:8,9
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; [SUP]9 [/SUP]not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Tell me HeRoseFromTHeDead, when was the last time you HAD to work for your Birthday Gift? When was the last time you had to work for your Christians gift? AND what kind of works did you do to keep these gifts?
Gift:
1.something given voluntarily without payment in return, as to show favor toward someone, honor an occasion, or make a gesture of assistance; present.
2. something bestowed or acquired without any particular effort by the recipient or without its being earned:
I think the problem is you do not understand what the Holy Spirit is saying OR you believe you are greater than God and therefore know more than God does. Either way you really need to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior so you too can receive the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit who will teach you the Truth that you cannot see.
James is NOT talking about Faith for Salvation, He is talking about the works we do like feeding and clothing people by our Faith. This Faith is after we receive Salvation. Not Faith for Salvation.
Ephesians 2:8,9
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; [SUP]9 [/SUP]not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Look carefully at this verse, it says not as a result of works. James says.
James 2:14
[SUP]4 [/SUP]What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works?
Are you saying HeRoseFromTheDead that God makes mistakes? Can God contradict Himself in the Scriptures?
We have an issue here. In one verse God says Salvation is not by works. In the other verse God says Faith is by works. The Faith in Ephesians is the Faith from God that allows us to believe Jesus is God and accept Him as our Lord and Savior. The Faith in James is the Faith we have from God for doing good works in His name, not for receiving Salvation.
You seen to have trouble understanding what God says. This is normal for someone who's a new Christian or someone who has never received Salvation. So which is it? Are you a new Christian or have you passed up on receiving Salvation?
Another thing about Ephesians if you read it again you will see that the Salvation we receive is a GIFT!
Ephesians 2:8,9
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; [SUP]9 [/SUP]not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Tell me HeRoseFromTHeDead, when was the last time you HAD to work for your Birthday Gift? When was the last time you had to work for your Christians gift? AND what kind of works did you do to keep these gifts?
Gift:
1.something given voluntarily without payment in return, as to show favor toward someone, honor an occasion, or make a gesture of assistance; present.
2. something bestowed or acquired without any particular effort by the recipient or without its being earned:
I think the problem is you do not understand what the Holy Spirit is saying OR you believe you are greater than God and therefore know more than God does. Either way you really need to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior so you too can receive the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit who will teach you the Truth that you cannot see.
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Paul said not by works; not by works of righteousness which we have done; not saved according to our works. Paul did not say that we are saved through faith and works of faith/good works, just not specific works of the law in Ephesians 2:8,9. Roman Catholics make this same claim that you do about works and say that man is saved through faith "infused with works" (all the right works) and just not works of the law of Moses, yet you cannot escape the MORAL aspect of the law when it comes to works of faith/good works.
You have fallen for the deception that man is saved by "these" works and just not "those" works. Good works that believers accomplish "out of faith" are works of righteousness. What do you call genuine good works? Works of unrighteousness? I once heard someone who attends the church of Christ make this bogus argument - "It is works of obedience that help to save us, not works of the law or works of merit." If works of obedience which follow faith "help" save us then there is merit in performing them.
James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).
In James 2:15-16, the example of a "work" that James gives is: "If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?" To give a brother or sister these things needed for the body would certainly be a "work of faith/good work" yet to neglect such a brother or sister and not give them the things needed for the body is to break the second great commandment "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39) as found written in the law of Moses (Leviticus 19:18).
In Matthew 22:37-40, we read: Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. Please tell me, which works of faith/good works could a Christian accomplish that are "completely detached" from these two great commandments which are found in the law of Moses? (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18).
So it's not just specific works of the law which are not the means of our salvation. It's works in general. The "whole picture", rests on cause and effect. Do we do good works TO QUALIFY for God's grace? Or is God's grace a completely free offer which then consequently leads TO good works? Do we do something because of faith, or is our faith caused by something we do? Which is cause and which is effect?
You have fallen for the deception that man is saved by "these" works and just not "those" works. Good works that believers accomplish "out of faith" are works of righteousness. What do you call genuine good works? Works of unrighteousness? I once heard someone who attends the church of Christ make this bogus argument - "It is works of obedience that help to save us, not works of the law or works of merit." If works of obedience which follow faith "help" save us then there is merit in performing them.
James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).
In James 2:15-16, the example of a "work" that James gives is: "If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?" To give a brother or sister these things needed for the body would certainly be a "work of faith/good work" yet to neglect such a brother or sister and not give them the things needed for the body is to break the second great commandment "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39) as found written in the law of Moses (Leviticus 19:18).
In Matthew 22:37-40, we read: Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. Please tell me, which works of faith/good works could a Christian accomplish that are "completely detached" from these two great commandments which are found in the law of Moses? (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18).
So it's not just specific works of the law which are not the means of our salvation. It's works in general. The "whole picture", rests on cause and effect. Do we do good works TO QUALIFY for God's grace? Or is God's grace a completely free offer which then consequently leads TO good works? Do we do something because of faith, or is our faith caused by something we do? Which is cause and which is effect?
Matthew 7:21 - "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven."
John 6:40 - "For My Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."
John 6:40 - "For My Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."
You are exactly right! I've heard Roman Catholics say that man is saved through faith "infused with works" yet they simply call this "saved through faith." I've also heard people in the CoC say that man is saved through faith "conjoined with works" and simply call this "saved through faith." It's like they take faith AND works then wrap them both up in a package and simply stamp "faith" on the package. It's all just smoke and mirrors and still equates to salvation by works.
Amen..you nailed it Dan.
I don't understand why people who say they are believers in Christ do NOT believe in Him and in what He has done? Why don't they do the will of the Father?
Why must they "make" their own deeds of D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness instead of living from the life of Christ inside of them and live by grace through faith alone in Christ's finished work? The fruit of living from His life in us will produce much fruit.
I don't understand why people who say they are believers in Christ do NOT believe in Him and in what He has done? Why don't they do the will of the Father?
Why must they "make" their own deeds of D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness instead of living from the life of Christ inside of them and live by grace through faith alone in Christ's finished work? The fruit of living from His life in us will produce much fruit.
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Knowing Catholic doctrine well, I can say that I've never heard the term "faith working in love."
Of course, I could have missed this. If something written could be posted, it would be nice - instead of just saying what one "heard."
There are many misconceptions on both sides of the isle.
Catholics believe that a person is SAVED THROUGH GRACE BY FAITH, just as is written in
Ephesians 2:8
A person is justified as a work completely from God and is a gift. Sanctification also begins and continues throughout life. Sanctification requires the cooperation of the saved person. Sanctification is a road that brings to holiness and an always closer relationship with God. Same as with Protestantism.
Works is a RESULT of the salvific work of the Christ, as is plainly stated in James 2:14-20
If anyone believes he could be saved and NOT do works, he does not know the teachings of Jesus, as are evidenced by Mathew 5, 6 and 7 and Mathew 25:34-46.
Fran
Of course, I could have missed this. If something written could be posted, it would be nice - instead of just saying what one "heard."
There are many misconceptions on both sides of the isle.
Catholics believe that a person is SAVED THROUGH GRACE BY FAITH, just as is written in
Ephesians 2:8
A person is justified as a work completely from God and is a gift. Sanctification also begins and continues throughout life. Sanctification requires the cooperation of the saved person. Sanctification is a road that brings to holiness and an always closer relationship with God. Same as with Protestantism.
Works is a RESULT of the salvific work of the Christ, as is plainly stated in James 2:14-20
If anyone believes he could be saved and NOT do works, he does not know the teachings of Jesus, as are evidenced by Mathew 5, 6 and 7 and Mathew 25:34-46.
Fran
Heres a few similar
I was answering to a comment originally made by Mailmandan, which was:
Originally Posted by mailmandan
You are exactly right! I've heard Roman Catholics say that man is saved through faith "infused with works" yet they simply call this "saved through faith." I've also heard people in the CoC say that man is saved through faith "conjoined with works" and simply call this "saved through faith." It's like they take faith AND works then wrap them both up in a package and simply stamp "faith" on the package. It's all just smoke and mirrors and still equates to salvation by works.
Faith infused by works is misleading.
Faith gets one saved --
Works keep one saved.
If we desire to do NOTHING for God, are we really saved? Since love for God makes us WANT to do good works.
I've read much on the thread about how works are not good. How could that be? If my neighbor is hungry, should I NOT feed him? If the Word teaches that I'm to gather with other believers, am I NOT to gather with them? We are to keep the commandments, as you've posted.
Doing good works is a visible sign of our salvation. Jesus did not come to abolish the Law; in fact, I'd say He made it even more difficult! If we hate our brother, we have already killed him. Mathew 5:22
Thankfully, we have the help of the paraclete, the Holy Spirit, who walks by our side and makes all things possible through Him. Mathew 19:26
Fran
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How do you define faith? How do works keep one saved? From beginning "have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is through faith and is not by works.
Desiring to do NOTHING for God is not descriptive of one who is truly born of God (1 John 2:3-4; 3:9-10).
The "whole picture", rests on cause and effect. Do we do good works TO QUALIFY for God's grace? Or is God's grace a completely free offer which then consequently leads TO good works? Do we do something because of faith, or is our faith caused by something we do? Which is cause and which is effect?
Believers accomplish these good works BECAUSE they are saved and not to become saved. We are saved FOR good works and NOT BY good works (Ephesians 2:8-10).
Good works are the fruit of salvation but not the root of it.
Saving faith in Christ is manifest by works produced in the transforming, regenerating power of the Holy Spirit. These works are expressions of the love in which God pours into the believer's heart (Romans 5:5; Galatians 5:6).
Desiring to do NOTHING for God is not descriptive of one who is truly born of God (1 John 2:3-4; 3:9-10).
The "whole picture", rests on cause and effect. Do we do good works TO QUALIFY for God's grace? Or is God's grace a completely free offer which then consequently leads TO good works? Do we do something because of faith, or is our faith caused by something we do? Which is cause and which is effect?
Believers accomplish these good works BECAUSE they are saved and not to become saved. We are saved FOR good works and NOT BY good works (Ephesians 2:8-10).
Good works are the fruit of salvation but not the root of it.
Saving faith in Christ is manifest by works produced in the transforming, regenerating power of the Holy Spirit. These works are expressions of the love in which God pours into the believer's heart (Romans 5:5; Galatians 5:6).
Its not about authority hornetguy, its all about having the gift of discernment. Most of what i see in HeRoseFromTheDead is all about his pride in him having the Truth that others do not have.
I really do not see the Fruits of the Spirit in him, nor the Indwelling of the Spirit in him.
Just because you cannot see past what HeRoseFromTheDead says and teaches does not mean others cannot.
Look up the Gift of Discernment you just might learn something.
I really do not see the Fruits of the Spirit in him, nor the Indwelling of the Spirit in him.
Just because you cannot see past what HeRoseFromTheDead says and teaches does not mean others cannot.
Look up the Gift of Discernment you just might learn something.