Suicide Unpardonable ? or RCC Nonsense?
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Re: Suicide Unpardonable ? or RCC Nonsense? OP IGNORANCE
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I hate to barge in here with the truth, but...
Catechism of the Catholic Church
2282: Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.
2283: We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.
Catechism of the Catholic Church - The fifth commandment
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I hate to barge in here with the truth, but...
Catechism of the Catholic Church
2282: Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.
2283: We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.
Catechism of the Catholic Church - The fifth commandment
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Nowhere have I said to give up hope and take these pills. I SAID it would be better to let a pain med do it's job, rather than let that person needlessly suffer in pain, especially if they are terminal. There's no need whatsoever to let a person in agony not get relief from a pain med(s).. I know what cancer feels like, I've had it and survived it. Luckily I didn't have to do chemo or rads, a hysterectomy cured my cancer. Not all people are so fortunate, and I feel guilty for surviving, while they died.
Some people choose to suffer through to the end, others are forced to suffer. Some are offered pain meds but refuse, or the family refuses. Same with those who attempt or commit suicide. They try once or twice and fail, then they realize there's a reason WHY they failed, and they choose to live to find out what that reason is. Others just have given up all hope for whatever reason, and feel God has abandoned them, so they go through with it. No one know for positive whether suiciders go to hell or not, and IMO we should'nt speculate on that. Yes its God's decision when we go, BUT He also sometimes allows us to make it through and live, when there was no logical reason that we should have.
Why Maynard are you quoting from the Catholic Church?
Where in the Scriptures does the Holy Spirit say, "Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide. "????? Where in the Scriptures does God say this? Show us the Book, Chapter and Verse in the Scriptures where God says this.
Its what the Holy Spirit says in the Scriptures that is the Truth, not what the Corrupted Catholic Church says. All you are quoting is what the Catholics say, not what God says
Sola Scriptures only. Opinions of Popes are not Truths from God, they are just opinions from sinful people.
Where in the Scriptures does the Holy Spirit say, "Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide. "????? Where in the Scriptures does God say this? Show us the Book, Chapter and Verse in the Scriptures where God says this.
Its what the Holy Spirit says in the Scriptures that is the Truth, not what the Corrupted Catholic Church says. All you are quoting is what the Catholics say, not what God says
Sola Scriptures only. Opinions of Popes are not Truths from God, they are just opinions from sinful people.
Hey, silly,
The thread is arguing over exactly what the Catholic Church teaches about salvation in regards to suicide, and you are all clearly very confused about this, and so I posted it for you. That is all. There's no need to thrash and bash anyone, Kenny.
Cool your jets, champ, and run along to your most favorite "sola scriptures" thread.
(It's called 'Sola Scriptura', btw. If you're gonna believe it and beat folks over the head with it, Kenny, then you should at least know how to say it!)
God bless.
The thread is arguing over exactly what the Catholic Church teaches about salvation in regards to suicide, and you are all clearly very confused about this, and so I posted it for you. That is all. There's no need to thrash and bash anyone, Kenny.
Cool your jets, champ, and run along to your most favorite "sola scriptures" thread.
(It's called 'Sola Scriptura', btw. If you're gonna believe it and beat folks over the head with it, Kenny, then you should at least know how to say it!)
God bless.
You started your thread with,"I hate to barge in here with the truth, but...".
So Maynard you have no problem with believing and accepting as Truth what Satan says? Do you believe Satan has Truths that God does not have?
There is only one source for the Truth and that is the Scriptures we have from God. How can they be any Truth outside of God?
The very fact you believe what the World says, which is from Satan, has Truths that God does not have brings into question if you really are a Christian.
Matthew 7:15
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
Lets start from the beginning.
1. The Catholic Church believes one loses their Salvation when they commit a Mortal sin.
2. Murder is a Mortal sin.
3. Killing oneself is Murder.
4. Therefore since one has lost their Salvation and one is dead, they cannot then repent and enter into Heaven.
So yes its RCC nonsense.
And yes its Scriptures from God only that has the Truth! There is no Truth in the Catholic Church.
So Maynard you have no problem with believing and accepting as Truth what Satan says? Do you believe Satan has Truths that God does not have?
There is only one source for the Truth and that is the Scriptures we have from God. How can they be any Truth outside of God?
The very fact you believe what the World says, which is from Satan, has Truths that God does not have brings into question if you really are a Christian.
Matthew 7:15
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
Lets start from the beginning.
1. The Catholic Church believes one loses their Salvation when they commit a Mortal sin.
2. Murder is a Mortal sin.
3. Killing oneself is Murder.
4. Therefore since one has lost their Salvation and one is dead, they cannot then repent and enter into Heaven.
So yes its RCC nonsense.
And yes its Scriptures from God only that has the Truth! There is no Truth in the Catholic Church.
Does that matter?
To Ken.... please calm down and go back and read what Maynard said.....
This thread was started to criticize the RCC about their supposed stance on suicide. Bestil tried to correct him by showing him the actual quoted teaching by the RCC, but was ignored.
Maynard came in with "the truth"..... which was NOT put forward as the truth about suicide, but the truth about what the RCC TEACHES about suicide. He even tried to explain it to you, which you promptly ignored, in your haste to condemn the RCC.
I mean, come on, guys..... READ what is being posted, and let's discuss the issue of suicide. If you want to bash the RCC, start another thread, and have at it... You and VDP can have a ball....
To Ken.... please calm down and go back and read what Maynard said.....
This thread was started to criticize the RCC about their supposed stance on suicide. Bestil tried to correct him by showing him the actual quoted teaching by the RCC, but was ignored.
Maynard came in with "the truth"..... which was NOT put forward as the truth about suicide, but the truth about what the RCC TEACHES about suicide. He even tried to explain it to you, which you promptly ignored, in your haste to condemn the RCC.
I mean, come on, guys..... READ what is being posted, and let's discuss the issue of suicide. If you want to bash the RCC, start another thread, and have at it... You and VDP can have a ball....
Spoken in a true spirit of love and discipleship....
Neither Bestil nor Maynard were trying to "promote" Catholicism.... they were merely trying to add to the discussion, and clarify the ERROR on the part of the OP, in his accusation against the RCC.
They are NOT trying to proselytize... simply discuss the issue of suicide.
If they start trying to promote Catholicism, I'm sure the mods will hear about it, and respond in an appropriate manner.
Neither Bestil nor Maynard were trying to "promote" Catholicism.... they were merely trying to add to the discussion, and clarify the ERROR on the part of the OP, in his accusation against the RCC.
They are NOT trying to proselytize... simply discuss the issue of suicide.
If they start trying to promote Catholicism, I'm sure the mods will hear about it, and respond in an appropriate manner.
i failed to find either liturgy or declaration that the Catholic Church teaches suicide is certain condemnation to hell.
i found that the RCC, just as all the Church which is not associated with Rome, teaches that suicide is sin, but that judgement belongs to God.
i found anecdotes from non-RCC sources saying this is what is taught.
it may be something that was once historically taught. it may be what certain Catholic priests teach by extrapolating from doctrines about confession and absolution ((which i think we would agree would be wrong)). it may actually be taught now but i just failed to find it.
but Bestil_Andno, you are right in both of these things you say:
we should not speak slanderously of anyone, least of all of the Wife of the Lamb, who is the body of all His saints. we should search things out and prove them.
& there is no reason to start digging up every grievance anyone has with the historical RCC either to answer your specific question - a well justified one, or to talk about the question of suicide.
Y
The passive-aggressive and overt Catholic hate in this thread makes me giggle with glee. Wonderful examples of Christian behavior...
Even when confronted with your behavior, you'll admit it isn't nice, then kick that same hornet's nest again and again. It's like trying to reason with a toddler. It's funny. What 99% of you "know" of Catholicism is just hearsay and rumor you've heard from others. But, it's fun to be in the "in crowd" of Protestants that bash the Catholic church, and it just wouldn't be right to look uncool and actually do your own research instead of standing around at your church socials talking to each others how the Pope is the false prophet of Revelation or how the Vatican is Mystery Babylon or whatever else you do mental gymnastics to come up with to justify being hateful and non-inclusive or to feel superior to others. Again, very nice examples of Christian behavior you show. Bravo. *golf clap*
Even when confronted with your behavior, you'll admit it isn't nice, then kick that same hornet's nest again and again. It's like trying to reason with a toddler. It's funny. What 99% of you "know" of Catholicism is just hearsay and rumor you've heard from others. But, it's fun to be in the "in crowd" of Protestants that bash the Catholic church, and it just wouldn't be right to look uncool and actually do your own research instead of standing around at your church socials talking to each others how the Pope is the false prophet of Revelation or how the Vatican is Mystery Babylon or whatever else you do mental gymnastics to come up with to justify being hateful and non-inclusive or to feel superior to others. Again, very nice examples of Christian behavior you show. Bravo. *golf clap*