JP teaches "self righteousness" and instant "perfectionism"

[InSpiritInTruth]

Those are my favs together. And Phil 3:15 follows behind that (acknowledging the perfect and as many as be so) but I have found its in the SAYING (which is funny) because Job "got it" who WAS actually called perfect by the LORD and Im not Job (as that is no secret) but what I get a chuckle over is that this isnt all that clear to a few here that try and corner you into their strawman and because its not so clear to them who think its brilliant to throw you in a corner and try to get you to SAY, SAY SAY...their own strawman (but not with understanding according to what is shown in God, and Job, and Paul, and the like) But sort of get off on pressing you not even realizing what they are doing. Then lecture you on how perfect works (in their own simplistic scheme of things) because in Job we have God's declaration, but what Job knew he should not SAY that (of himself) becoming pervese in that same doing, just as we have Paul carefully saying in one breath NOT AS THOUGH I WERE already perfect although in the next breath read Phil 3:15 But he also mentions speaking wisdom among them that WERE perfect (which is basically full age, spiritual verses carnal) as he could not speak to the carnal in the same way (being babes yet) but he does neglect to tell them HOW they were to be minded in this Phil 3:15 and that if they were not quite getting that or differed in this thing that God would make this very thing more then clear to them

How awesome is that? Paul knew it! Thats why what you SAY in certain things matters, thats when there is no strawmen BUT NOW throw in the ignorant of these things throwing those up (at you) while thinking they feel pretty brilliant in their doings in that same

Because you can see it even in Jesus he defers it to the Father, be ye perfect as your heavenly Father (but not myself) is perfect, YET at the same time did say every one that IS perfect shall be AS their master I am sort of in a rush here to start dinner for the hubby but there are alot of places to examine in this very thing which is a great thing to look through actually.

I wasnt going to say anything because folks usually just pull out one place and link them and you pulled them out as I was looking at them myself. I thought, cool! He so caught that!

Thats difficult to articulate to when someone wants to press the perverse as is done here on the forum (as if they even know what they are doing) which is just another unspoken reason I opt out of that game, and Paul acknowledges the perfect (these being the mature) and when Christ when he brings in being perfect (he choses the Father) but when he defines what that would look like in his disciples (like their Lord). I find this is really hard to articulate though. This is actually a great study though because there are quite a few one the one hand (and then) on the other hands (in it) and then you just see them woven throughout each place.

Peace to you

It speaks along these lines here....
2 Corinthians 10:18[SUP] "[/SUP]For not he that commendeth himself is approved, but whom the Lord commendeth.

Enjoy your dinner.....Peace

 

[psalm6819]

it is our spirit that is reborn and perfected NOT our body and certainly NOT our soul.

WE are to renew our minds with scripture, the Holy Spirit will help our understanding and application thereof.

Not prople hammering on each other pointing out "flaws" or "lack" of fruit

 

[Grace777x70]

Wait a minute, you told me before on several occasions that Hebrews was written to the Jews only, but, but, now you want to use it for yourself? Rofl!!! See how your own folly will catch up with you. LOL

Job 9:20
If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.

Paul knew this as well...

Philippians 3:12
Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

I never said that Hebrews was written to the Jews only. Show me the proof of this. How you lie at will is beyond belief to me. Prove that I said that Hebrews was written to the Jews only. as in not being for the believing Jew as well.

This is an example of your ungodly "twisting" of words to make it "appear" to be something that it really wasn't.

I said that the book of Hebrews was written to the Hebrews of which there would have been both believing Jews and unbelieving Jews that would have listened to the letter being spoken. Just like there are people in our churches today that are not saved.

Jesus did say that there would be tares and wheat growing up together.

 

[Grace777x70]

That is Joseph Princes teachings, which you have been defending this whole thread...doh! The quote came from here....Joseph Prince exposed, false teachings of Joseph Prince

Because your self-proclaimed heretic hunter wrote that on a website does not mean it's what was really written by the original person. Show us the real quote from Prince himself. They twist words and say things that people never even said in the first place. They give their "thoughts" about what is said as if they other person actually said that.

Obviously your heretic hunter had the wrong thing written down - as usual.

 

[PollyAnna]

And the believers in the grace of Christ will continue to expose your continuous lies, slander and malice for others in the body of Christ despite being shown that you are bearing false witness.

We are not expecting you to admit your sinning as that takes the gift of God to grant repentance but we will limit our interaction with you as per Paul's instructions in 1 Cor 5:11.

We have all tried many times to get you to stop this ungodly behavior even when shown the truth of what people say on at least over 50x times- and yet you continue to slander others in the body of Christ.

1 Corinthians 5:11 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

railer :

3034. [FONT=&quot]λοίδορος[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]loidoros[/FONT] noun

An abusive person, reviler, slanderer

Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary, The - The Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary – Lambda-Omicron.

Hmmmm that depends on your definition of brothers in Christ!

My definition of true followers is those that cling to the scripture that is taught in the spirit of truth! If you defend the likes of JP and JO I dont consider you, in the very least, grown up in your biblical knowledge !You accuse those who actually expose error of being in error. That is the way those who cannot be taught act. They have a mountain of pride and they are blinded by their PRIDE.

 

[Grace777x70]

TY for reminding me of this scripture:

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2 Thessalonians 2:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: [SUP]12 [/SUP]That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Imagine the heresy of believing 2 Cor 5:17 and that we are new creations in Christ. Imagine the heresy of actually believing in what Christ has done for us? Imagine actually believing the word of God about Christ and His great salvation?


2 Corinthians 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

Ephesians 4:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind,

[SUP]24 [/SUP] and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.

Imagine believing that we are now righteous because we are in Christ? I know all this stuff is heresy to the religious mindset.

Looks like it is time for "scripture" again in the area of righteousness. Why do people fight so much against the work of Christ and instead live by their own humanistic thoughts? Why don't we believe in Christ? Why are we continually denying Him?

I can give you guys what the scriptures say about righteousness and believers that are "in Christ" and the fact that we are new creations in Him now. Everyone can believe what they want too.

The understanding of the new creation in Christ and the new identity of the believer is paramount to living the true Christian life.


Here it says our spirit ( the inner person that is a new creation in Christ ) is alive because of righteousness that it is it.

Romans 8:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin,yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Here righteousness is a gift - you don't earn it.

Romans 5:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

We have grace reigning in our lives because of righteousness in us.

Romans 5:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21[/SUP] That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Here righteousness comes by faith.

Romans 9:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

Here when we believe - we are righteousness.

Romans 10:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

We are in the kingdom of God.

Romans 14:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17[/SUP] For the kingdom of God ( Jesus said that the kingdom of God is within you..He might know a thing or two ) is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Here it says that God made us righteousness in Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

This says we have become the righteousness of Christ ( this is called a dependent clause in the greek - it is determined as fulfilled because Christ became sin )

2 Corinthians 5:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Believers are called righteousness.

2 Corinthians 6:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?


Here it is saying that "righteousness comes by Christ".

Galatians 2:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

Here we have the breastplate of righteousness - which is the armor of God that we are to be strong in.

Ephesians 6:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, andhaving on the breastplate of righteousness;

This talks about the new man in Christ - the new creation.

Ephesians 4:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.

Ok..that's enough..there are tons more....

 

[UnderGrace]

Colossians 2 tells us we are already made perfect in Christ. We don’t work towards perfection. Christ has made us perfect from the Cross. The minute you believe you are made perfect in Christ. You work from your perfection not to it.” 38




Nonsense.....believing in what Christ has done is now "imagining"? My goodness you really have no idea about the gospel of Christ. You really have no idea of the new creation in Christ that is created in righteousness and holiness.

Have you never read Hebrews 10:14 ..how long is for all time?

Hebrews 10:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

I to do agree that scripture teaches a positional sanctification Hebrews 10:10 and Hebrews 10:14.

For many years like yourself I followed the same teaching that I had to work at being holy, sanctification was a progressive state and then when I was 100 I would be near perfect. maybe even have gold halo hanging over my head, but I can tell you that it was not working for me it is almost as bad as putting oneself under the law.

But I learned, not through JP, but other writers like Jerry Bridges and my own study that progressive sanctification is really about leaning into, abiding in that positional sanctification it comes from Jesus no other the source it is there when we are born again we just have to avail ourselves to it.

So yes we are babes when we are first born again, because we have new nature that is Jesus within us, yet we need to learn to live in that new identity which I think can be progressive, only in the sense we assume more of his righteousness and less of us which tries to be righteous but cannot be.

Not sure how this can be a false teaching since it gives all the glory to Jesus who has promised to conform us to His image. Romans 8:29

 

[Grace777x70]

I to do agree that scripture teaches a positional sanctification Hebrews 10:10 and Hebrews 10:14.

For many years like yourself I followed the same teaching that I had to work at being holy, sanctification was a progressive state and then when I was 100 I would be near perfect. maybe even have gold halo hanging over my head, but I can tell you that it was not working for me it is almost as bad as putting oneself under the law.

But I learned, not through JP, but other writers like Jerry Bridges and my own study that progressive sanctification is really about leaning into, abiding in that positional sanctification it comes from Jesus no other the source it is there when we are born again we just have to avail ourselves to it.

So yes we are babes when we are first born again, because we have new nature that is Jesus within us, yet we need to learn to live in that new identity which I think can be progressive, only in the sense we assume more of his righteousness and less of us which tries to be righteous but cannot be.

Not sure how this can be a false teaching since it gives all the glory to Jesus who has promised to conform us to His image. Romans 8:29

I agree...exactly.... we are simply "working out" what already is in us in our inner man created in righteousness and holiness - because we are in Christ now.

This just conflicts with some religious prior teachings and so people get upset over this. They think that this means that we can do whatever we want without growing in our life in Christ...etc.

...and to some others you are just "imagining" all this.......it's amazing what the enemy uses to try to malign the gospel of the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[UnderGrace]

I agree...exactly we are "working out" what already is in us in our inner man created in righteousness and holiness. This just conflicts with some religious prior teachings and so people get upset over this.

...and to some others you are just "imagining" all this.......it's amazing what the enemy uses to try to malign the gospel of the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I know this conversation keeps happening on this discussion board.

I only come here really mostly to witness and support this truth, I was born again at twenty and then lived under this trying to be good teaching without really understanding the source since I did not fully understand that I was sanctified, for almost thirty years what a disaster. Such bondage.

I rather celebrate what God has created in me and live in that new creation than spend the rest of my life trying to add to what is already there, His is the living water. It all makes sense now.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Because your self-proclaimed heretic hunter wrote that on a website does not mean it's what was really written by the original person. Show us the real quote from Prince himself.

I already did, and you have been defending it the whole thread...HELLO!

Here it is again .....

Joseph Prince states:

Colossians 2 tells us we are already made perfect in Christ. We don’t work towards perfection. Christ has made us perfect from the Cross. The minute you believe you are made perfect in Christ. You work from your perfection not to it.” 38
​

Source of quote.....

Joseph Prince exposed, false teachings of Joseph Prince

 

[Grace777x70]

Originally Posted by Grace777x70

Because your self-proclaimed heretic hunter wrote that on a website does not mean it's what was really written by the original person. Show us the real quote from Prince himself

I already did, and you have been defending it the whole thread...HELLO!

Here it is again .....

Source of quote.....

Your heretic friend has the quote wrong...lol...that's what we are saying. If you would have looked at the rest of my post you would see this.

Show us the real quote from Prince himself. Go get the read quote from Prince himself - was it in a book or in a video?...if so...tell us the page number so we can check it out for the truth.....if it was a video - then tell us where in the video it occurs - not from your warped website that obviously is making any sense as it is clearly wrong.


The self-proclaimed heretic hunters twist words and say things that people never even said in the first place. They give their "thoughts" about what they "perceive" is being said as if they other person actually said that.

Obviously your heretic hunter had the wrong thing written down - as usual.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

It speaks along these lines here....
2 Corinthians 10:18[SUP] "[/SUP]For not he that commendeth himself is approved, but whom the Lord commendeth.

Enjoy your dinner.....Peace

Yes! Amen, you know I was wondering if these two can be shown in accord with that seeing its of the "approved"

1 Cr 11:9 [FONT=&quot]For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

[/FONT]And given that which is approved "be manifest" almost similarly shown approved even as by the Lord here with Lydia as well seeing it is the Lord opening the heart to "the things" spoken of by Paul

Act 16:14 [FONT=&quot]And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard [/FONT]us[FONT=&quot]: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.

And seeing also one should shew themselves as approved unto God, it was God opening the heart to the things (like her hearing came by the same) and in nothing not being ashamed even in the same things

[/FONT]2 Ti 2:15 [FONT=&quot]Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

But even as he speaks elsewhere in 2 Corinth of living by the power of God "towards them" he also says, "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates even as the Lord seems to put a difference and did so for Lydia in Acts which seems to very much agree in Isaiah 30:20 seeing your teachers (even as those approved "in the way" to walk in are manifested) just as those approved are (and its the Lord commended the same, just as they themselves certainly were to Lydia's heart (as the Lord opened hers to "those things" and how Paul even speaks of them becoming followers of us and of the Lord himself in 1 Thes 1:6 as he is with them (confirming the word even). Its quite beautiful actually, there were a few things I was looking at there also.

Going back for seconds right now (dinner) [/FONT] Thanks!

God bless you

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I never said that Hebrews was written to the Jews only. Show me the proof of this. How you lie at will is beyond belief to me. Prove that I said that Hebrews was written to the Jews only. as in not being for the believing Jew as well.

This is an example of your ungodly "twisting" of words to make it "appear" to be something that it really wasn't.

Here ya go---->>>>>

My goodness you always take scripture out of context but it's to be expected.

Some times well intentioned people take Hebrews 10:26-31 out of context with the book of Hebrews. Anyone can take an isolated scripture out of it's context and say anything they want.

..including the book of Hebrews which was written to Hebrew people of which there would have been believers and non-believers listening to the letter being spoken.

Hebrews 10 is talking about Jewish people after hearing about Christ for the only sacrifice for sins and rejecting it to go back to the temple sacrifices for their sins.

If I have spoken the truth, and have provided proof, then how is it a lie?

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Originally Posted by Grace777x70

Because your self-proclaimed heretic hunter wrote that on a website does not mean it's what was really written by the original person. Show us the real quote from Prince himself




Your heretic friend has the quote wrong...lol...that's what we are saying. If you would have looked at the rest of my post you would see this.

Show us the real quote from Prince himself. Go get the read quote from Prince himself - was it in a book or in a video?...if so...tell us the page number so we can check it out for the truth.....if it was a video - then tell us where in the video it occurs - not from your warped website that obviously is making any sense as it is clearly wrong.


The self-proclaimed heretic hunters twist words and say things that people never even said in the first place. They give their "thoughts" about what they "perceive" is being said as if they other person actually said that.

Obviously your heretic hunter had the wrong thing written down - as usual.

You mean you have been defending Princes teachings and you don't even know what he teaches? Rofl!!! You are a mess.

 

[Grace777x70]

This is what I wrote:

including the book of Hebrews which was written to Hebrew people of which there would have been believers and non-believers listening to the letter being spoken.

Here ya go---->>>>>

If I have spoken the truth, and have provided proof, then how is it a lie?

When you said that I used the Book of Hebrews - you said that I said it was to the "Jew only" and that I was now using the book of Hebrews for Christian believers which is what started this whole thing.

My goodness you are very slippery...

Here is your post #113

Wait a minute, you told me before on several occasions that Hebrews was written to the Jews only, but, but, now you want to use it for yourself? Rofl!!! See how your own folly will catch up with you. LOL

Obviously you missed this part below in my post.

Prove that I said that Hebrews was written to the Jews only as in not being for the believing Jew as well.

 

[Grace777x70]

You mean you have been defending Princes teachings and you don't even know what he teaches? Rofl!!! You are a mess.

What I am doing is showing that your self-proclaimed heretic hunter has the wrong information.....

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

What I am doing is showing that your self-proclaimed heretic hunter has the wrong information.....

What you are showing is that you reject proof, even the proof of your own words.

 

[Grace777x70]

ISIT- I am done with your deceitfulness and your constant slipperiness. Go ahead and slander people in the body of Christ all you all you want.

I will trust the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth about the beauty of the grace of Christ to those that have an open heart.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

Are we done yet?

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

ISIT- I am done with your deceitfulness and your constant slipperiness. Go ahead and slander people in the body of Christ all you all you want.

I will trust the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth about the beauty of the grace of Christ to those that have an open heart.

I have been open and honest, not falsely accusing, but providing proof when asked. But I cannot say the same for your cult following, which falsely accuses without providing any proof to support their accusations. If you deny your own words, then who am I to convince you of the truth? Have a nice evening.