You said this quasar, "God, who is the Spirit, makes it clear that He is also Holy." This does "NOT" means that God the Father is the person of the Holy Spirit. And when you look at John 4:24 the verse is teaching that God is a spiritual being and we are to worship Him in a spiritual way. This verse does not mean that God the Father is the Holy Spirit because the Father is Holy.
Secondly, if we were to follow your line of "errant" reasoning I could say, "Jesus Christ identified Himself as the bread of life, does that mean He is a loaf of bread quasar? In your mind you think you have verses to support your position but the truth is your taking those verses out of context to support your wrong teaching. As well, you still have not addressed my post to you except to say "look up your post #blah blah blah." That will not cut it, so here is what I posted and please address the very specific issues I raised.
Ok quasar, I have not forgotten about you. And your right, my argument is a prime case of a syllogism because it cannot be refuted. The Bible does identify the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit as God. Not "a gods," not "three gods," and surely not three made up pagan gods, but the ONE GOD. And if you could refute the syllogism you would have done it but instead your asking me "why" questions which I will be happy to address.
First of all your question? "Then explain to me why the Bible teaches God is the Holy Spirit and His title is Father? One person!" Your question is an "assumption" because the Bible does not teach the Father is the person of the Holy Spirit. If the Father is the Holy Spirit (and you said He is on the basis that God the Father is Holy) then there would be no need for the Bible to distinguish the Holy Spirit from the Father. One would only see the same continued metaphorical applications being used all the time. God the Father is never identified in the Bible as the person of the Holy Spirit.
Here are some examples of what I mean. Genesis 1:2, "And the earth was formless and vlid, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and THE SPIRIT of God was moving over the surface of the waters." Notice the rest of the verses say, "Then God" said or did this or that. Then at Acts 5:3,4, "But Peter said, "Ananias why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit?" Why does it not just say, "why did Satan fill your heart to lie to God?" And at vs4, "While it remained unsold did it not remain your own? And after it was sold was it not under your control? You have not lied to men but to God." In other words, the Holy Spirit is idneitifed as God but not as God the Father as you errantly teach.
Or anothe example! John 14:23, "Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and WE will come to him, and make OUR abode with him." So here you have God the Father and God the Son who will make their abode with them and no mention of the Holy Spirit until vs26, "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, WHOM THE FATHER WILL SEND in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you."
So quasar, if the Father is the Holy Spirit why would have to send Himself? Why are God the Father and the Holy Spirit distinguished? I can you many examples but hopefully you get the point. Now to your second question? It is true that God the Son and God the Father are two distinct persons. I'm not argueing that point. What I'm telling you is the fact that the Son preexisted His incarnation. Not as "separate" persons as you said but "distinct" persons. There is a difference between the meaning of the two words.
You yourself admit that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and God the Son but the rub comes from you saying "Jesus became human at His incarnation." How does that preclude Jesus Christ who is God from preexisting His incarnation. What if I was to prove to you that the angel of the Lord in the Old Testament is the preincarnate Jesus Christ? But for now let me address your last point. "All men who produce children of their own, have the title of father! With that having been said, why don't Trinitarians make the claim that Jesus and the Son are TWO persons instead of just one, as they so they do Almighty God, the Holy Spirit, and the Father?"
I could not agree with you more quasar. It is a universal law that all sons bear the same nature and their father. Since the Father of Jelsus Christ is God the Father then Jesus' nature is that of Deity. As well, since Mary is the mother of Jesus He has a second nature which is "human being." This is one of the reasons Jesus Christ referred to Himself as the "Son of Man" and as the "Son of God." Now, you cannot split up "natures" because Jesus Christ is one person, not two. In fact, He is the only one that has two natures as I explained.
At John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was WITH God, and the Word was God." That word "with" means that the Word/Logos is "with" somebody else other than Himself and He is identified as God. At verse 14 that same person who is the
Word/Jesus Christ became flesh/human. One persons with two natures. This is not hard to understand because this is what the Bible teaches.
How in the world do you explain or reconcile that the Bible makes it perfectly clear that God the Father and the Holy Spirit are distinct from each other? And if the Father is the person of the Holy Spirit as you say then there would be no need to distinguish Him from the Holy Spirit as the Bible does in numerous places.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Secondly, if we were to follow your line of "errant" reasoning I could say, "Jesus Christ identified Himself as the bread of life, does that mean He is a loaf of bread quasar? In your mind you think you have verses to support your position but the truth is your taking those verses out of context to support your wrong teaching. As well, you still have not addressed my post to you except to say "look up your post #blah blah blah." That will not cut it, so here is what I posted and please address the very specific issues I raised.
Ok quasar, I have not forgotten about you. And your right, my argument is a prime case of a syllogism because it cannot be refuted. The Bible does identify the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit as God. Not "a gods," not "three gods," and surely not three made up pagan gods, but the ONE GOD. And if you could refute the syllogism you would have done it but instead your asking me "why" questions which I will be happy to address.
First of all your question? "Then explain to me why the Bible teaches God is the Holy Spirit and His title is Father? One person!" Your question is an "assumption" because the Bible does not teach the Father is the person of the Holy Spirit. If the Father is the Holy Spirit (and you said He is on the basis that God the Father is Holy) then there would be no need for the Bible to distinguish the Holy Spirit from the Father. One would only see the same continued metaphorical applications being used all the time. God the Father is never identified in the Bible as the person of the Holy Spirit.
Here are some examples of what I mean. Genesis 1:2, "And the earth was formless and vlid, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and THE SPIRIT of God was moving over the surface of the waters." Notice the rest of the verses say, "Then God" said or did this or that. Then at Acts 5:3,4, "But Peter said, "Ananias why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit?" Why does it not just say, "why did Satan fill your heart to lie to God?" And at vs4, "While it remained unsold did it not remain your own? And after it was sold was it not under your control? You have not lied to men but to God." In other words, the Holy Spirit is idneitifed as God but not as God the Father as you errantly teach.
Or anothe example! John 14:23, "Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and WE will come to him, and make OUR abode with him." So here you have God the Father and God the Son who will make their abode with them and no mention of the Holy Spirit until vs26, "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, WHOM THE FATHER WILL SEND in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you."
So quasar, if the Father is the Holy Spirit why would have to send Himself? Why are God the Father and the Holy Spirit distinguished? I can you many examples but hopefully you get the point. Now to your second question? It is true that God the Son and God the Father are two distinct persons. I'm not argueing that point. What I'm telling you is the fact that the Son preexisted His incarnation. Not as "separate" persons as you said but "distinct" persons. There is a difference between the meaning of the two words.
You yourself admit that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and God the Son but the rub comes from you saying "Jesus became human at His incarnation." How does that preclude Jesus Christ who is God from preexisting His incarnation. What if I was to prove to you that the angel of the Lord in the Old Testament is the preincarnate Jesus Christ? But for now let me address your last point. "All men who produce children of their own, have the title of father! With that having been said, why don't Trinitarians make the claim that Jesus and the Son are TWO persons instead of just one, as they so they do Almighty God, the Holy Spirit, and the Father?"
I could not agree with you more quasar. It is a universal law that all sons bear the same nature and their father. Since the Father of Jelsus Christ is God the Father then Jesus' nature is that of Deity. As well, since Mary is the mother of Jesus He has a second nature which is "human being." This is one of the reasons Jesus Christ referred to Himself as the "Son of Man" and as the "Son of God." Now, you cannot split up "natures" because Jesus Christ is one person, not two. In fact, He is the only one that has two natures as I explained.
At John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was WITH God, and the Word was God." That word "with" means that the Word/Logos is "with" somebody else other than Himself and He is identified as God. At verse 14 that same person who is the
Word/Jesus Christ became flesh/human. One persons with two natures. This is not hard to understand because this is what the Bible teaches.
How in the world do you explain or reconcile that the Bible makes it perfectly clear that God the Father and the Holy Spirit are distinct from each other? And if the Father is the person of the Holy Spirit as you say then there would be no need to distinguish Him from the Holy Spirit as the Bible does in numerous places.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto