Perfected forever

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#81
I think before i give a detailed response I should ask you what you believe it means when it says we are perfected?

it means

1. We have the righteousness in Christ vs having our own righteousness.
2. the mercy seat has been covered, and when God looks, he sees his sons blood. Not the things which prove us guilty
3. it means we have been justified (declared innocent of all wrong doing forever) because of the redemption which is in Christ Jesus.

it does not mean we are sinless perfect. as a certain poster is trying to say. If we say we have no sin, we decieve ourselves and there IS NO TRUTH in us.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#82
sometimes, it's semantics. Angela's post makes sense to me due to the way it's worded.
and because i believe it's true... lol!

we should be patient and keep trying. but first, enjoy the evening with your dear wife. :)

We should always be open minded.. Thats whay I am trying to do here Seems there have been confusion lately
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#83
Because the majority of unbelievers AND believers think we have some work to do......................for salvation.

They don't understand that our work is a privilege because of salvation. And not an obligation for salvation.
Thats why it worries me when people say the one sacrifice of our perfect high priests Which God said makes us perfected forever, is not enough.. And we are not made perfect the moment we are adopted as a child of God (A position of honor where GOD gets all the glory, Because we did nothing to receive it. It was a gift)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#84
I agree.

Who can have fellowship with God? Only a perfect creature can. Not one little,tiny, atom sized speck of unrighteousness can stand before God.

It is getting serious IMO. This idea of "what are you doing for Jesus?" is infiltrating Christianity. So much so, that most believers have not a clue of "what the Lord Jesus Christ did for THEM."
Yes, Sin and God can not enter the same room, As proven by the fact if the high priest did not do everything perfect before he entered the holy of Holys he would drop dead. That's why they had to tie a rope to him, in case they needed to pull him out. And the fact an innocent anumal had to be slain for anyone redemption no matter how small a sin they committed.



As for the what have you done for Jesus, While I agree, many forget what God did, and focus on us, We need to not sit still, we should be doing for God, out of appreciation and gratefulness for what he did for us, There are to many couch Christians also..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#85
Well in all honesty my post here wasn't really about EG it was mainly to explain the mistake many make when anyone teaches or posts of perfection I am still waiting for EG to explain what it means to be perfect in his own words before I begin to discuss with him in this thread

Thank you for not just assuming.. To many people do this.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#86
Thank you very, very much for your work here angela!
I read the verse with an extreme sense of...common sense. And I compound that with my own experience of God through His Spirit. And I certainly know that I am not perfect. In fact, if I were perfect, there would be no need for me to be "being sanctified." There would be no need to grow in grace, humility, holiness, virtue - if I were perfect.

Your work here helped me to read it!
has perfected forever. those who are being sanctified.

I love you agree, we all must continue to grow. this is a lifetime thing. We all have to have this attitude, and keep "running the race" as Paul put it.

But do we believe we have also been erfected forever? Because BOTH are said to true of a child of God.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#87
Hmmm...I wasn't thinking about my outward behavior as I was talking. I was thinking about my inside. God doesn't really teach me much about outward sinning...but that makes sense to me because it is what comes from inside of me that defiles me and then proceeds to an outward behavior. You can't sin outwardly unless you've done so inwardly first. Eve would have never eaten the fruit unless she first mistrusted Gods' motives inwardly. And no one commits the outward act of adultery without having first done it inwardly. So the root of the problem isn't outward behaviors that need to change. It is inward that the change is needed.
I like this, That makes sense, Its why the jews could not obey the law. The were focused on outward actions, and not inward reality.

Love is a mental attitude virtue that says I will serve, Not take. Thats why love fulfills the law.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#88
But that's not what the Scripture says - English or Greek, and translators agree that what Christ has done is a done deal:
New International Version
For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

New Living Translation
For by that one offeringhe forever made perfect those who are being made holy.

English Standard Version
For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

Berean Study Bible
because by a single offering He has made perfect for all time those who are sanctified.

Berean Literal Bible
For by one offering, He has perfected for all time those being sanctified.

New American Standard Bible
For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

King James Bible
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are sanctified.

International Standard Version
For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

NET Bible
For by one offering he has perfected for all time those who are made holy.

New Heart English Bible
For by one offering he has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For by one offering he has perfected those who are sanctified by him for eternity.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
With one sacrifice he accomplished the work of setting them apart for God forever.

New American Standard 1977
For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

Jubilee Bible 2000
For by one offering he has perfected for ever those that are sanctified.

King James 2000 Bible
For by one offering he has perfected forever them that are sanctified.

American King James Version
For by one offering he has perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

American Standard Version
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Douay-Rheims Bible
For by one oblation he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Darby Bible Translation
For by one offering he has perfected in perpetuity the sanctified.

English Revised Version
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Webster's Bible Translation
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Weymouth New Testament
For by a single offering He has for ever completed the blessing for those whom He is setting free from sin.

World English Bible
For by one offering he has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

Young's Literal Translation
for by one offering he hath perfected to the end those sanctified;





If what you say is true, Christ Work is only efficacious for the past and the future, but has no benefit during our day-to-day present.

Which would render Christ in us now as no consequence.

That is not the message of the New Covenant Scriptures. Christ is in us; we are united with Him; His Spirit produces His Fruit in us.

This is one of the paradoxes of the Christian faith: That we are perfect in Christ (indeed we MUST be to have the Spirit of Christ dwell within as His Temple) as His Grace is teaching us godly behavior.

Also the term, sanctified, can mean to 'free from sin' (which Romans 6 tells us Christ also did), but more often means simply to be set apart, which we are, NOW, in Christ.





A perfect (pardon the pun) example of how one mixes their theology with Scripture instead of letting Scripture speak for itself.

To say that Hebrews 10 is not about us at all is just silly. Hebrews 10 is a continuation of clarifying the Work of Christ and what that means for those who are in Him as an encouragement as we walk in this life.

-JGIG
well said and thank you sis!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#89
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: Romans 5:1 ; Hebrews 10:38 ; Hab. 2:4 NLT

Two kinds of peace
1. Justifying Peace - This is Peace with God, a legal standing. Rom. 8:7; Eph. 2:14-15
2. Sanctifying Peace - This is the Peace of God in the heart. Rom. 8:6; 14:19; 15:13; Gal. 1:3

The first is the result of a legal standing. The second is the result of the Work of the Holy Spirit. The first is static, never fluctuates, the second changes almost from hour to hour. The first, every Christian has, the second, every Christian may have.

For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate. Luke 15:11-32

Jesus makes it crystal clear in "The Parable of the Lost Son" that the man's son was dead (lost his salvation) and alive again.
I agree with everything except your last statement,

When the father said the son was dead, He meant he lost his (in your terms) sanctifying peace. He always had the justifying peace. because al;; he had to do was go back to his father and his blessings would have been restored.

He never lost the sonship. He lost the blessing of what a son would receive.


Thus he never lost salvation.

I like your different versions of peace thought, they make sense. Thank you.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#90
The operation word being "being" sanctified. Or, if we are already perfect, then why on earth why would we even need to read the Bible? We would not need instruction. All those sin lists of warning by Paul to people in the church, would have nothing to do with us.

It must be great to be able to sit back, kick it up and be perfect. As for me, I know I am a continuing work in progress. I am so grateful for the perfect life and death of Jesus on the cross. And that my hope for perfection is in eternity.

We are neither sinless, (as per the sinless perfection people) nor perfect (as per the hyper grace crowd). That is not real, not Biblical and certainly not the truth.

I am glad Christ is constantly changing me through the Holy Spirit. There is no instant sanctification or perfection, as Hebrews 10:14 so clearly points out. Yes, glorification is what I look forward to as the end goal of walking with Christ.

You still are not understanding what I am saying :(

except for people like skinski, who here do you see sitting back in their chair thinking they are perfect. and do not need to work any more.


God said I am perfect (in him) and there is nothing anyone can do to change that.

God also said I am a work in progress (being sanctified) and this is also a fact, and nothign can change that


The hyper grace crow is not teaching sinless perfection.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#91
I am trying to get to everyones response, Bare with me, I have to get some work done this morning..lol
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#92
Here, let me fix this for you. The part you seemed to have missed in my post.




Of course, the bad translation by KJV of "are being sanctified" started this very bad theology. We are positionally justified. We are BEING sanctified, and we will be perfect both in position and in fact when we are glorified. Really amazing how many Bibles follow after the error of the KJV.
ok. I see what you are saying here, I will be honest, I never noticed the KJV interprettion of this, And I will agree with you, this is totally wrong (yet another error found in the KJV only) also note, the NKJV corrected that error. and you will see that is the version I used. so on this fact, forgive me for misunderstanding what you said heree about the KJV as I agree.

Another word of honesty, I have seen no one use the KJV interpretation of saying we are already sanctified or sinless perfect. except one (again mr skinski) which no one has replied to
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#93
We are Deemed perfectly acceptable.. We are Deemed sinless because out sins are covered by the Blood of our LORD Jesus Christ.. It is an Imputed Righteousness Not and actual sinless righteousness in our flesh in this present life time... We are not suddenly conformed to the image of our LORD Jesus at the moment we believe Him and trust in His atonement for our sins.. That will happen on the Day of the resurrection..

I agree with you 100 %. And this is what we all seem to be saying.


That is where the confusion comes in, they think we are saying something else. Thank you.

I find it actually absolutely amazing that Anyone could stand up and claim that they are currently without sin and living a sinless life today...
You and me too brother, But sadly you have witnessed it,, There used to be quite a few of them in here.. Now there are only 1 maybe 2.

People who teach this (that they are sinless from the moment they are saved) and are not living it are condemned by their own teaching.. They should know within a day that they are failing their own doctrine.. What kind of delusion must be within the minds of those that preach this boggles my mind....
The watering down of the law to make us appear holy and righteous through self effort is amazing..

We are saved not because of our righteousness, But by Gods mercy, If we could be perfect (sinless) we would not need mercy.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#94
The Believer Faith that is maintained exclusively in Christ and His Finished Work daily is sealed for the day of redemption. There is a huge difference in having the Letter (in the head) vs. the Spirit (in the heart=soul).

The sheep can wonder off and get lost (Matthew 18:11-14), (Luke 15:3-7), (Matthew 26:31).

Matthew 18:14 says, "Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish." (Proclaims the fact that a Believer can cease to believe and, therefore, become an unbeliever; if so, such a one will be lost; this shows the preciousness of the soul.)
There is a problem.

1. He promised he would never leave us nor forsake us (he is omnipresent, so he is able to do that) Jonah tried to run from God, how well did he do it? God was there at his every move, It does not matter where we go. God is there, we can not hide from him. To think we can is to not know who God is.

2. A person who has true faith would never leave, How can someone who has witnessed Gods true love ever leave? Now can people who just believe, but never were saved? yes They have no standard from which to place Gods love, because they have never felt it.


As Jesus said, If one sheep leaves, wuld nto the sheppard go to the highest mountain to find it? And also. My sheep hear my voice and they follow me.. Only the false sheep (sheep which were never his) can walk away, and not follow.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#95
I do not see true godliness as my outward behavior. If this were the case, Miss Manners would be very godly. But she may be an atheist for all I know. Good manners do not fix the problem of my ego/self-love. They merely conceal it.

True godliness is inward and then the outward just follows. But an atheist can be very polite outwardly while plotting how to murder you inwardly.

I am aware that you probably think there is something not quite right in what I am saying, but Jesus did not speak harshly to men because their inside was good and their outside just wasn't matching up.

If a man is good in his heart, inwardly, his outward behavior will simply be good too. But it seems to me like you are saying that after he meets God and receives the Holy Spirit, his inside is good but for some reason his outward behavior has not followed suit. This seems to say, he then has an outward problem that does not allow his inward holiness to be seen.

I guess on this thing, we actually are oceans apart. Jesus didn't chide men to make their outside look godly. He chided them for being liars and deceivers who wanted others to think they were godly BY their outside display, when inwardly, they were no such thing as they strove to portray. He wasn't having a problem with their sin - he knew it was there. He was having a problem with their lying. Their hypocrisy.

This is so crucial a matter because it is not walking in truth. If a man is never brought to see what is inside him he's never going to completely surrender himself to God. God doesn't begin by saying: we will clean your inside, in one fell swoop, and then we will work on your outside and get it to match up. Instead He says, walk in truthfulness and do not fear death because you will not pay the penalty for your sin, and I will take care of it all.

I don't know if that's coming out clearly. He doesn't want that men should deny what is in them as if it's not there. He wants them to see and admit that it's there and then He can do something about it. All we have to do is be truthful about it and look to Him to fix it.

It makes no sense to deny it's there inside. Not having to pay the penalty for it is meant to encourage truthfulness. It is not truthfulness for me to say it's not there inside me, in my heart. I plainly see that it is. It rises up and tries to get me to seek preeminence. Saying that I am holy in my heart would be a lie.

It's like this: a childs face is completely smeared in chocolate. It's even in their hair and eyebrows. Yet the child keeps insisting they did NOT eat the cookies. The parent tries to get the child to admit the truth but it is not going to happen because of fear of punishment. Then the parent tries a different tack and says, I want you to tell the truth. I promise you won't be punished. But you have to admit the truth. Then the child latches onto that promise to not be punished and then there is no reason to lie any more and so the child freely admits what they did.

The way you describe it seems backwards to me.
Good morning, by the way! :)
I guess when we look at it, We can see it this way.

I see myself as a filthy rotten sinner (if I am honest, the more I grow in Christ, the worse a sinner I see I am)

When God looks at me, He sees his son (redemption) and not my filth.

If God saw my filth, I could not enter his presence, Yet as a child. I am told I can boldly enter the throne of grace.


If the OT law teaches us one thing, Sin can not enter the presence of God. a wall or veil has to stand between us, If we enter with sin, we die immediately. and only the high priest can enter..

god tore the veil in two with Jesus death.. The sin issue was resolved because of expiation, redemption, justification POSITIONAL sanctification, as well as many other "christian" terms all explained in the gospel
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#96
Video - If I Say I Have No Sin
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XQJtXnuHV1o

Perfect in heart = Heart Purity = Upright in heart

Psa 32:11 Be glad in the LORD, and rejoice, ye righteous: and shout for joy, all ye that are upright in heart.

Psa 36:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David the servant of the LORD. The transgression of the wicked saith within my heart, that there is no fear of God before his eyes.
Psa 36:2 For he flattereth himself in his own eyes, until his iniquity be found to be hateful.
Psa 36:3 The words of his mouth are iniquity and deceit: he hath left off to be wise, and to do good.
Psa 36:4 He deviseth mischief upon his bed; he setteth himself in a way that is not good; he abhorreth not evil.
Psa 36:5 Thy mercy, O LORD, is in the heavens; and thy faithfulness reacheth unto the clouds.
Psa 36:6 Thy righteousness is like the great mountains; thy judgments are a great deep: O LORD, thou preservest man and beast.
Psa 36:7 How excellent is thy lovingkindness, O God! therefore the children of men put their trust under the shadow of thy wings.
Psa 36:8 They shall be abundantly satisfied with the fatness of thy house; and thou shalt make them drink of the river of thy pleasures.
Psa 36:9 For with thee is the fountain of life: in thy light shall we see light.
Psa 36:10 O continue thy lovingkindness unto them that know thee; and thy righteousness to the upright in heart.
Psa 36:11 Let not the foot of pride come against me, and let not the hand of the wicked remove me.
Psa 36:12 There are the workers of iniquity fallen: they are cast down, and shall not be able to rise.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#97
Thank God for Christ and the cross that has given us a new heart created in righteousness and holiness - the new creation in Christ.

The New Covenant is how God deals with us now - all based on what His Son - our Lord has accomplished. Our part is to believe when we hear about Christ and His perfect work for us.

The hearing about Christ supplies faith.

Romans 10:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

Colossians 3:16 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you, with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with thankfulness in your hearts to God.


 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#98
Sanctification is threefold.

We are sanctified once for all when we become Christians (1 Cor 1.2; 6.11; Heb 2.11) Positional sanctification

We are being sanctified as a process, as God continues to make us holy (Ephe 5.25-27; 1 Thess 5.23; Heb 10.14). Conditional sanctification

We will one day be completely sanctified (1 Thess 4.3) Glorification
Amen, My add is in blue.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#99
Is the whole world sanctified
That was the one of the meanings of my op.

I mean, who are the ones who are being sanctified?

1. The world? No. The word we are told is dead
2. The Lost? No, The lost still need to be found
3. The pagan? No
4. The jew lost in Judaism? No
5. The muslim following Muhamad?
6. The hundu, the (insert what ever world religion I have missed)
7. The false prophets of christianity?
8. The false teachers?
9. The one who is in church, but have not yet repented and come to faith of Christ?

I doubt very seriously anyone would say any of these people are in the process of being sanctified (made into the image of Christ)

so then, who is it that the author of hebrews is talking about, that are perfected forever?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I just can't get my mind off of this.
I understand: have mercy on me Lord, a sinner.
But I cannot wrap my mind around: Thank you Lord that I am perfect and holy.

I'm not trying to argue. I'm really trying to understand how He has led me so differently than some others. I keep coming to the conclusion that I must not be seeing something because He has not perfected me as much as others yet.
Aww sis, I feel for ya,

He has perfected you just as much as any of his other children.

Sanctification though works different for each induvidual..

Thats why I opened this OP. to try to get rid of some of the confusion we have seen when people use certain terms.. I think it has caused a great division in CC..