Is Charismatic A Cult?

[trofimus]

do you know what the characteristics of a cult actually are?

some here seem to think cult status is reflected in the views of those who disagree or perhaps have a different and more fulfilling walk with God

I think that cult has at least two sides:

a) psychological (without critical thinking, too much feelings, hysteria, blind following of leaders etc)
b) theological (denies something from the orthodox faith or brings in something unorthodox and makes it an important issue)

Both of these I have seen in charismatic/pentecostal movement a lot, so therefore I said "yes".

Again, I realize that there is a huge variety inside of this movement, from extremes to some modest ones. I just think the modest ones are minority.
And I am not talking about individuals. I know many very good charismatic Christians.

 

[Stephen63]

Originally Posted by PeterJens

No. Because what you call charismatic is just any group who believe in the gifts
of the spirit, which covers traditional believers to wakey mystics.

Under the disguise of spiritual gifts, latter reign theology has taken hold, and many
want the elation and promise they felt years ago to come to fruition.

I have met people who will forgive almost any sin, in the hope this is the dawn of
the reign of Jesus on earth through His church. That is the danger of this love
of the spiritual elation without boundaries, as if this defines a move of God.

Yeah, I met someone crazy like that, too. He actually "forgave almost any sin." As I recall, His name was Jesus.

I do believe He meant it as "overlooking sin" which they do a lot. It's open rebellion.

 

[JaumeJ]

I am by no means acting as God in what I believe I understand, but I am obeying Jesus Christ for myself when I judge for myself what is right as He commans.

By virtue of the fact that denominations defy each other over each's doctrine(s) is enough to say to my soul they are all in error, but theWord saying we are of the Faith of Abraham is correct and true.

The faith of Abraham is not a new or old denomination, it is just the description of the faith the Father has given to all who believe.

We are to obey and follow our Teacher, Jesus Christ, and there are believers of this in all Christian denomination tha confess Jesus Christ as Lord, Savior and God. He has many more titles than those three but you know from those.

We cannot judge peoples opinions as if they were a source for others to believe God . No man is in the place of God. But if there opinion (heresy) denies the grace of Christ that brought them by adding something they could do to add to it , it could be damnable and we could try and commune with them.


We can love them perhaps by offering a study together. We never know we could be entertaining a messenger of God who could have a need or have one to give to us . His gifts, not seen always involve two.

Not all heresy. The Greek word we get sect or denomination as opinions of men are damnable.

2Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.


No they were in a denomination themselves. There were many sects at the time of Christ came and many before .and there are now in Jerusalem . No such thing as non denominational . The kingdom of God is not of this world .

If it was then we could walk after signs performed by doing something what men think is religious and say that is evidence Christ, is with me .

But again that would be a sign for those who do not have faith as those who walk after there own experiences.Signs for the rebels . Prophecy for the believer.

 

[PeterJens]

No. Because what you call charismatic is just any group who believe in the gifts
of the spirit, which covers traditional believers to wakey mystics.

Under the disguise of spiritual gifts, latter reign theology has taken hold, and many
want the elation and promise they felt years ago to come to fruition.

I have met people who will forgive almost any sin, in the hope this is the dawn of
the reign of Jesus on earth through His church. That is the danger of this love
of the spiritual elation without boundaries, as if this defines a move of God.

Yeah, I met someone crazy like that, too. He actually "forgave almost any sin." As I recall, His name was Jesus.

Lol. Jesus forgives sins of people who repent of sin, not sinner who are still in rebellion.

The fact you are so quick to come out with this idea shows a lot about the particular
problem I am referring to.

Our teachers and leaders are meant to be people walking in purity, blamelessness and
righteousness, not up to their necks in problems and sin. I would say this is a prime
example of why many "super spiritual" groups get is so wrong.

 

[PeterJens]

A quick observation, some people defended speakers and preachers on the basis of
they were more senior and respected and could only be criticised by people of a
similar standing.

This aspect is well on its way to what defines a personality cult, where an individual
is above being questioned or held to account, who are you, mere believer to be doing
such a thing.

And you might get that idea from some of the contributors here, lol.

 

[Stephen63]

There's cult activity throughout the church.

When one goes to church to be entertained, entertainment is their god. It becomes a cult.

When one worships merely for the sake of excitement, they worship excitement, & their excitement is their god. It becomes a cult.

When one believes all my sin is done away with, repentance is no longer needed, & the Holy Spirit no longer convicts me of sin, & I'm perpetually saved whether I live like it or not, morality becomes their god, because that's all that's left. It becomes a cult.

Some charismatics are in a cult. So are some Pentecostals (I'm a Pentecostal).

But those that have a mindset that says "Its them, & not me", are usually the blindest cult members of them all.

 

[Willie-T]

So cool. Did you know Grace Wilson?

No, I didn't really know much about that (father's) side of the family. Actually don't even know who Grace Wilson is.
They all lived in Mo, and I was raised in Fl. And, for most of my life, I was not all that religious. My in-laws (the ones near my age) did go to school with the IHOP guy, Mike Bickel...... and he was part of the denomination I attend for three or four years, many years ago. But, though I have met him, I never knew him personally, either.

 

[Willie-T]

Lol. Jesus forgives sins of people who repent of sin, not sinner who are still in rebellion.

The fact you are so quick to come out with this idea shows a lot about the particular
problem I am referring to.

Our teachers and leaders are meant to be people walking in purity, blamelessness and
righteousness, not up to their necks in problems and sin. I would say this is a prime
example of why many "super spiritual" groups get is so wrong.

Humm........... "and while we were yet sinners, God gave His only son.... "

Must have gotten included by mistake.

 

[LaurenTM]

I think that cult has at least two sides:

a) psychological (without critical thinking, too much feelings, hysteria, blind following of leaders etc)
b) theological (denies something from the orthodox faith or brings in something unorthodox and makes it an important issue)

Both of these I have seen in charismatic/pentecostal movement a lot, so therefore I said "yes".

Again, I realize that there is a huge variety inside of this movement, from extremes to some modest ones. I just think the modest ones are minority.
And I am not talking about individuals. I know many very good charismatic Christians.

here is a definitive and thorough explanation:

Submission:

• Complete, almost unquestioned trust in the leadership.
• Leaders are often seen as prophets, apostles, or special individuals with unusual connections to God. This helps a person give themselves over psychologically to trusting someone else for their spiritual welfare.
• Increased submission to the leadership is rewarded with additional responsibilities and/or roles, and/or praises, increasing the importance of the person within the group.

source and the rest of the article here and well worth the read


Pentecostals and Charismatics are not a cult...if you call them a cult, Baptists and every other Christian denom are also cults, which is not to say that cult like behavior does not occur...if you have human beings involved, you are liable to get most anything

 

[Stephen63]

Aunt Katy was a bit eccentric, but the whole family loved her. (She was my grandfather's cousin.)

It's all becoming very clear now......ROFL!

 

[Stephen63]

here is a definitive and thorough explanation:

Submission:

• Complete, almost unquestioned trust in the leadership.
• Leaders are often seen as prophets, apostles, or special individuals with unusual connections to God. This helps a person give themselves over psychologically to trusting someone else for their spiritual welfare.
• Increased submission to the leadership is rewarded with additional responsibilities and/or roles, and/or praises, increasing the importance of the person within the group.

Redneck translation: The pastor/ head elder is the Big Kahuna, & all the rest are suck-ups, towel carriers, ring kissers, & some other kissers I can't mention.

Just so nobody is left behind there.....

 

[notuptome]

So far just opinions no specific criteria.

Are cultists heretics? Are heretics cultists? Does one need to be one or the other or even both to qualify?

Jim Jones was likely a cultist. The Halle Bopp comet people were cultists I assume. How does this relate to charismatics? Christian Scientists are cultists or are so considered by many. How do charismatics compare to these generally accepted cults?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Angela53510]

Just to make it clear:

Is there anyone who says charismatic/pentecostal movement is not a cult and is not a charismatic himself?

Its quite understandable that charismatics will say they are not a cult...

To me, the simple definition of a cult would be that they consider anyone not in their "group" to not be saved. So JW's, Mormans, COC, etc, belong to this definition. Probably Word Faith, not because they don't consider non-WF people to be saved, but because they put them down, malign them and their faith. Yep, Word Faith is a cult, by my definition.

I attended Pentecostal and Charismatic Churches the first 15 years I was saved. I saw excesses and I saw deadness. I was in a large Pentecostal Church with 3000 members, lots of outreach, but never a single "gift" of the Holy Spirit. Many considered that church "dead!" Except for the fact that so many people came to Christ - is that not a sign the working of the Holy Spirit?

Anyway, I came to the conclusion that I did not believe what I was seeing in most of the churches were actually the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Instead, I think most of it was from the self and ego. That was not everyone, of course. I met some very wonderful, spirit led people. But the general milieu in those days (80's and 90's) was exhibitionism masquerading as people operating in the gifts.

However, although I walked away from that, I never heard one person say that non-charismatics were not saved. True, they put them down, said their lives were empty, but they did not ever say they weren't saved. (Well, except the Oneness or United Pentecostals, but they believed other Pentecostals weren't saved, too, because they didn't follow their twisted theology and ideology. So, let's not include them in the discussion.)

In conclusion, as a former charismatic, non-Pentecostal, I do not think that the Charismatic movement is a cult.

I hope that works for you!

 

[LaurenTM]

So far just opinions no specific criteria.

Are cultists heretics? Are heretics cultists? Does one need to be one or the other or even both to qualify?

Jim Jones was likely a cultist. The Halle Bopp comet people were cultists I assume. How does this relate to charismatics? Christian Scientists are cultists or are so considered by many. How do charismatics compare to these generally accepted cults?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

well that's your opinion LOL!

 

[BeyondET]

Interesting did Jesus have charisma?

 

[notuptome]

Interesting did Jesus have charisma?

Psst ... Jesus never spoke in tongues.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[BeyondET]

Psst ... Jesus never spoke in tongues.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

indeed He never did speak in tongue, and had a multitude of people from all city's who knew him.

 

[notuptome]

indeed He never did speak in tongue, and had a multitude of people from all city's who knew him.

Those who knew the scriptures knew Him.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Grace777x70]

Psst ... Jesus never spoke in tongues.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

How do we know that Jesus never spoke in tongues? If one aspect of tongues is a private prayer language is speaking mysteries to the Father and it is not speaking to men as Paul says in 1 Cor. 14:2 - perhaps He did - no one knows for sure.

I'm not saying He did or didn't speak in tongues to His Father. The scriptures do not say He did or that He did not.

We are just "surmising" that He didn't if we are being honest so to come right out and say that He didn't is really adding our own thoughts on a matter and treating them as if they are true even though the scriptures never do say either way.


There are many things that the scriptures doesn't say that I'm sure Jesus did - like go to the bathroom and every thing else that a man living on earth would do.

 

[zone]

i was wondering if it is since i have always thought that it is a bit... different (in a bad way)

any opinions on this?

yep..........