Did Jesus expect people to keep all of the Ten Commandments?

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Feb 9, 2010
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#21
16And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself(Matthew 19:16-19).

Jesus said to inherit eternal life keep the commandments.
Jesus pointed out all the commandments that are love towards people because loving people is the fulfilling of the law.
Of course the rich man would know to love God because how else can you have eternal life if you do not love God.Jesus told the rich man to obey all the commandments that are love towards people,6 laws.

Matt
 
Y

YashayahSaviour

Guest
#22
Well, I will attempt to repond to some of your lengthy post. Firstly let us remember that the disciples of Jesus(including Matthew who wrote the beatitudes) would have spent more time with Jesus and heard more of his teachings and better understood them than any of us living today.

Paul and Barnabas went to Jerusalem to discuss with the church leaders which Jewish laws the Gentile converts should be asked to keep. The decision was four. Three of which were to appease Jewish legalists, that left sexual immorality. I know of nowhere in the NT that Gentiles were specifically toild they must obey the Mosaic law. In that specific instance when it was being discussed Peter said.
'Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our Fathers have been able to bear. Acts15:10
I say sincerely. If Jewish people believe it is their duty to obey all of the Mosaic law I will not argue. But I am a Gentile and scripturally have not been asked to. I am quite happy to go by the disciples whom Jesus commisioned to spread the Gospel.
It is a truth that once the law was given it did not decrease sin, rather sin increased.
The law was added so that the trespass might increase, but where sin increased grace increased even more. Rom5:20
So the law by trying to be upheld actually brought more sinning. Paul is clear on this on many occassions.
Jesus commandments in the NT should most certainly be upheld. If people in their hearts truly desire this, and they understood Paul's message they would embrace his words wholeheartedly, because he showed us the only way those commandments can truly be upheld.

Paul did not uphold the law by concentrating on striving to obey it. He said that just made him a worse sinner.

For when we were controlled by our sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies so that we bore fruit for death. But now, by dying to what once bound us we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code. Rom7:5&6

He said that sin uses the good laws of God to condemn us. This was the person picked out by Jesus and given his message as a revelation by Christ himself and wrote nearly half the books of the NT.

What does Isiaih mean?
Bind up the testimony, seal up the law, among my disciples Isiaih8:16
Your covenant with death will be annulled, your agreement with the grave will not stand. Isiaih28:18
We know what Paul considered the covenant of death. He spoke of this after trying and failing to uphold the Ten Commandments. So I am left wondering, was Paul right? He could not obey the law or the Ten Commandments. He just became a worse sinner, or are people right when they tell us we must.
And if they quote John as to why we must, but when we fail we have an advocate in Jesus when we repent, I suggest if Paul is right this will not help us. I'm more inclined to believe Paul was being honest.

Paul believed in living his life by faith in Christ and the Holy Spirit's power and not being under the law, however.

Do we then nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather we uphold the law. Rom3:31 Unfortunately people cannot understand or accept what he meant.

It was Paul who showed us truly how to uphold the law God would have us keep, I am convinced this is why he received the message he did

It is interesting to note that Jesus was hounded as law breaker, someone who ignored the law, by religious people
Steven the first Christian martyr was dragged before the sanhedrin and stoned to death, by religious people, one of the reasons? he was ignoring the law
The Apostle Paul was persecuted , by religious people. He said. Brothers if I still preached circumcision(ie law) I would not be persecuted, and he said that this was the offence of the cross. And so he too was persecuted for supposedly ignoring the law.

I wonder if much has changed in two thousand years
The yoke they were talking about is the yoke of circumcision. Study Acts more and get more perspective on what the apostles meant.
You are speaking typical doctrine of the Churches and it is not Biblical. The Most High is not a respecter of persons so there is no double standard. Funny thing is about the things that are written in the text about what the gentiles must abstain from: There is a law for each one of them. Study more and hold to the order of God the Father, then Christ, then man. The Most High's word stands FOREVER.
Matt 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Joh 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
The Most High spoke THROUGH Christ and HIS words last forever.
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#23
The yoke they were talking about is the yoke of circumcision. Study Acts more and get more perspective on what the apostles meant.
You are speaking typical doctrine of the Churches and it is not Biblical. The Most High is not a respecter of persons so there is no double standard. Funny thing is about the things that are written in the text about what the gentiles must abstain from: There is a law for each one of them. Study more and hold to the order of God the Father, then Christ, then man. The Most High's word stands FOREVER.
Matt 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Joh 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
The Most High spoke THROUGH Christ and HIS words last forever.
I repeat when Paul and Barnabas went to Jerusalem to discuss witrh the leaders of the church sspecifically which Jewish laws the Gentiles should be askerd to keep, the decision was four, three of which were to appease Jewish legalists. I say this sincerely. Why must I a Gentile take your interpretation above that written in scripture pertaining to the Apostles of Christ, many of whom had been his disciples and entrusted to spread the message of the Gospel by him

If you truly understood Pauls words concerning dying to the law and thereby upholding it you would rejoice in his message. I can only assume you do not understand what he meant in his words.

And why insist a Gentile strives to keep these laws?

Paiul said that the sinful passions in us are aroused by the law. And when he tried to obey the Ten Commadments (and failed) lust was artoused in him and sexual desire consumed him. Sin used the good laws of God to condemn him. Was Paul lying? Should I not listen to the person commissioned by Christ himself and given that revelation by no man but Jesus and specifically picked to spread the message to the Gentiles?
 
M

machew

Guest
#24
I repeat when Paul and Barnabas went to Jerusalem to discuss witrh the leaders of the church sspecifically which Jewish laws the Gentiles should be askerd to keep, the decision was four, three of which were to appease Jewish legalists. I say this sincerely. Why must I a Gentile take your interpretation above that written in scripture pertaining to the Apostles of Christ, many of whom had been his disciples and entrusted to spread the message of the Gospel by him

If you truly understood Pauls words concerning dying to the law and thereby upholding it you would rejoice in his message. I can only assume you do not understand what he meant in his words.

And why insist a Gentile strives to keep these laws?

Paiul said that the sinful passions in us are aroused by the law. And when he tried to obey the Ten Commadments (and failed) lust was artoused in him and sexual desire consumed him. Sin used the good laws of God to condemn him. Was Paul lying? Should I not listen to the person commissioned by Christ himself and given that revelation by no man but Jesus and specifically picked to spread the message to the Gentiles?
Well said! :)
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#25
God expected His people to keep ALL His commandments, this is why there were harsh penalties for not doing so. Most of the 10 commandments were punishable by death for disobedience to them. The 10 were but a summary of the whole 600+, some more important than others, but all expected to be kept. To love God and our neighbour as ourself, is not to neglect the other 10 commandments. Jesus was not saying to the young man, hey if you do this one or two things, you don't have to keep the other commandments, no way. THe most important part in what Jesus said was "come follow Me". The young man had to give up his possessions because they were holding him back from following Christ. Jesus impressed upon him the necessity of keeping ALL the law, in the hope that the man would see his inability to keep them, and follow Christ instead. Jews and Christian Judaizers alike miss this point - Jesus was not trying to get them to keep the law in its entirety, but to follow Him.
 
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Dec 19, 2009
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#26
God expected His people to keep ALL His commandments, this is why there were harsh penalties for not doing so. Most of the 10 commandments were punishable by death for disobedience to them. The 10 were but a summary of the whole 600+, some more important than others, but all expected to be kept.
Well could you tell me why when Paul and Barnabas went to meet the leaders of the church in Jerusalem to discuss which Jewish laws the Gentiles must specifically be asked to keep, four were mentioned, three of which were to appease Jewish legalists. Many of these leaders in the Jerusalem church had been Jesus disciples and spent the three years of his ministry with him

How could they have been so wrong, and failed so miserably to tell Paul and Barnabas what was expected of the Gentile converts?
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#27
They got it right - the gentiles did not have to keep all the commandments. The commandments they were instructed to keep, was only to appease the Jews as you said. Excluding the one about sexual immorality of course.
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#28
They got it right - the gentiles did not have to keep all the commandments. The commandments they were instructed to keep, was only to appease the Jews as you said. Excluding the one about sexual immorality of course.
Sorry, my fault. I didn't understand your post. And can I say it is wonderful indeed to read this comment!
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#29
Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"
"Why do you ask me about what is good" Jesus replied. "There is only one who is good. If you want to enter life obey the commandments."
"Which ones?" the man enquired.
Jesus replied. "Do not murder. Do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honour your Father and mother and love your neighbour as yourself."
"All these I have kept the young man said. What do I still lack?"
Jesus answered. "If you want to be perfect go and sell your possessions and give to the poor and you will have treasure in Heaven, then come follow me."

Matt19:16-21

When the rich young man asked Jesus which commandments he must keep Jesus never said . 'Remember the Sabbath day and keep it Holy? Why was that? According to Jesus the young man could be perfect without obeying that particular commandment.
I think the commandment about keeping the Sabbath was for our own good. The Lord needed rest and so do we.
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#30
I think the commandment about keeping the Sabbath was for our own good. The Lord needed rest and so do we.
I am not saying I disagree with you at all, but I believe that nine of the Ten Commandments are repeated in the NT as commandments that should be followed, with the exception of the Sabbath day. This is what I have been told anyway, I have not specifically noticed myself
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#31
Yeah the Sabbath is a tricky one. In the new covenant keeping the Sabbath did not pass away, but changed form how we keep it. This is because the Sabbaths were closely tied in with Jewish festivals and as a Gentile I'm not obliged to keep it, or them I should say, as there were a few different sabbaths. Ceasing from our own efforts to save ourselves, is what keeps us in the Lord's Sabbath, by faith. But keeping it in the traditional sense does have its advantages for mental and physical health. Just don't make the mistake of thinking you are actually keeping the Sabbath as per God's commands by kicking up your feet and staying at home in your pajamas and saying a few prayers on a Saturday. The sabbath was to be kept as per the Lord's instructions if you read the old testament, and there's quite a few do's and don't. And even if you keep the 7th day sabbath but fail to keep the others you've practically broken the whole law anyway. Seventh Day Adventists are like hypocrites in that sense. There's orthodox Jews go so far as to ban all motor car travel and turning on and off electric switches as this is "lighting a fire". Now THAT's keeping the sabbath, hardcore.
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#32
I am not saying I disagree with you at all, but I believe that nine of the Ten Commandments are repeated in the NT as commandments that should be followed, with the exception of the Sabbath day. This is what I have been told anyway, I have not specifically noticed myself
There are other commandments that I don’t think are mentioned in the New Testament:

You shall have no other gods before me. Exodus 20:3 RSV
You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Exodus 20:4 RSV

You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain. Exodus 20:7 RSV

 

QuestionTime

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2010
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#33
God expected His people to keep ALL His commandments, this is why there were harsh penalties for not doing so. Most of the 10 commandments were punishable by death for disobedience to them. The 10 were but a summary of the whole 600+, some more important than others, but all expected to be kept. To love God and our neighbour as ourself, is not to neglect the other 10 commandments. Jesus was not saying to the young man, hey if you do this one or two things, you don't have to keep the other commandments, no way. THe most important part in what Jesus said was "come follow Me". The young man had to give up his possessions because they were holding him back from following Christ. Jesus impressed upon him the necessity of keeping ALL the law, in the hope that the man would see his inability to keep them, and follow Christ instead. Jews and Christian Judaizers alike miss this point - Jesus was not trying to get them to keep the law in its entirety, but to follow Him.
I can see that you know what you are talking about. Praise God for you!

Quest
 
Y

YashayahSaviour

Guest
#34
You know "Jesus" didn't mention homosexuality and condemn it so maybe homosexuality is ok.
 
Y

YashayahSaviour

Guest
#36
People hear are reverencing Paul more than Christ and the Most High. Did you know that in the desert when the Most High freed his people from the captivity of Egypt, it was not just Israelites there but a MIXED MULTITUDE. Meaning that there were Gentiles/Proselytes among them and there were taught to observe the TORAH. The Most High is not a respecter of persons.
And yes, Paul did say it is not okay, but his reasoning is BASED ON THE LAW!
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#37
People hear are reverencing Paul more than Christ and the Most High. Did you know that in the desert when the Most High freed his people from the captivity of Egypt, it was not just Israelites there but a MIXED MULTITUDE. Meaning that there were Gentiles/Proselytes among them and there were taught to observe the TORAH. The Most High is not a respecter of persons.
And yes, Paul did say it is not okay, but his reasoning is BASED ON THE LAW!
I'm sorry but have you not read my previous two posts to you. The decision not to ask the Gentile converts to keep Jewish laws was taken by the Jerusalem church leaders, which included Peter, James and I am sure many others as well. They were not discussing circumcision, but which Jewish laws the Gentiles must be asked to keep
As tfor reverencing Paul. I will repeat, Jesus picked him out and specifically gave him the revelation of his message. Paul wrote nearly half the books of the NT and was specifically sent to preach to the Gentiles. The decision of the Jerusalem church (including Jesus disciples) isa one that I am quite happy to follow.

Can I ask you where you get your spiritual authority from to ask me a Gentile to keep Jewish laws that were not asked of Gentiles by Jesus disciples and the NT church leaders.
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#38
People hear are reverencing Paul more than Christ and the Most High. Did you know that in the desert when the Most High freed his people from the captivity of Egypt, it was not just Israelites there but a MIXED MULTITUDE. Meaning that there were Gentiles/Proselytes among them and there were taught to observe the TORAH. The Most High is not a respecter of persons.
And yes, Paul did say it is not okay, but his reasoning is BASED ON THE LAW!
Jesus said his spirit would lead his apostles in to all truth. You can't distinguish Jesus teachings from those of apostles. The same spirit was leading both.
 
Y

YashayahSaviour

Guest
#39
Do you Eat your food cooked all the way thru? (If you eat any thing less than a well-done steak, you are breaking one of the four commands) Do you celebrate pagan holidays? (That's idolatry) Most Gentiles who run to this verse, don't realize that they aren't even really observing these preliminary commandments.

Exodus 12:38 And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle.
Gentiles were expected to be obedient to the so-called Mosaic Code.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy STRANGER that is within thy gates:
 
Y

YashayahSaviour

Guest
#40
Paul was a Nazarene. Act 24:5 For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes:

If you research what the Nazarenes observed you will have further perspective and realize that what Paul was teaching was a different doctrine than what's being taught today.