Eternal Security You CANNOT lose your salvation! by David J. Stewart | January 2004
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It is all a matter of "identity". Those in Christ are a new creation a and that is their true identity.
Romans 8:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
There are the deeds of the body that we need to stop from manifesting "by the spirit". But these acts of the flesh are not our true identity.
This is why it is important to grow up in Christ Himself and we will stop the flesh from wanting to fulfill "it's" desires. The flesh's desires are not the new creation's in Christ's desires.
M
So, as long as you prayed a prayer in Sunday School as a 6-year-old...you can then go on to join the Hell's Angels motorcycle gang, smuggle crack cocaine by the ton, pimp out 35 prostitutes, murder 6 or 8 people during this criminal career...and then go to heaven?
Then what's left of Paul's warning in 1Cor. 6:10...that such "will not inherit the kingdom"??
Then what's left of Paul's warning in 1Cor. 6:10...that such "will not inherit the kingdom"??
M
Setting aside for the moment your wishful interpretation...I ask again...WHO, sitting in a church building on a given Sunday morning, is "washed" or "unwashed"? That is the question some of you folks are begging and not answering.
You think Paul believed every single soul who would be attending the reading of his epistle to Corinth...would be saved? That is pure malarkey. Sorry!
You think Paul believed every single soul who would be attending the reading of his epistle to Corinth...would be saved? That is pure malarkey. Sorry!
These ones you are describing are missing the whole gospel message if they are acting like you said. People end up acting like that when they are feed religion - like works--based righteousness and not the gospel of the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ
As to "inherit the kingdom"
here is a thread that talks about that.
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...e-what-does-mean-does-heaven-hell-depend.html
The Holy Spirit knew what He was doing when He had Paul write 1 Corinthians....
Some of them were going to temple prostitutes for sex, they were taking each other to court, they were in divisions and strife, they were not treating the poor amongst them right...etc.
Paul was saying that those in Corinth were acting like mere men and men of flesh - in other words not being spiritually minded.
1 Corinthians 3:1-4 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able,
[SUP]3 [/SUP] for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos," are you not mere men?
I noticed that in verse 1 Paul says that they are "babes in Christ".
- not that you are going to hell because you are sinning. Or that because they were sinning - that they are not born of God.
As to "inherit the kingdom"
here is a thread that talks about that.
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...e-what-does-mean-does-heaven-hell-depend.html
The Holy Spirit knew what He was doing when He had Paul write 1 Corinthians....
Some of them were going to temple prostitutes for sex, they were taking each other to court, they were in divisions and strife, they were not treating the poor amongst them right...etc.
Paul was saying that those in Corinth were acting like mere men and men of flesh - in other words not being spiritually minded.
1 Corinthians 3:1-4 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able,
[SUP]3 [/SUP] for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos," are you not mere men?
I noticed that in verse 1 Paul says that they are "babes in Christ".
- not that you are going to hell because you are sinning. Or that because they were sinning - that they are not born of God.
M
I KNOW they "missed the Gospel". You're telling me -- lol?
You're still missing the question --How do we identify those who are "washed" and those who are "unwashed"? Paul answers the question -- those who are "fornicators and idolaters", etc.. And how do I determine if I fall into those categories? Answer: Through a process involving, at times, "fear and trembling".
Pastors don't have some sort of magical Christian "luminol spray" which you can spray on people to see if they have the "seal of the Holy Spirit". The seal is invisible, lol.
You're still missing the question --How do we identify those who are "washed" and those who are "unwashed"? Paul answers the question -- those who are "fornicators and idolaters", etc.. And how do I determine if I fall into those categories? Answer: Through a process involving, at times, "fear and trembling".
Pastors don't have some sort of magical Christian "luminol spray" which you can spray on people to see if they have the "seal of the Holy Spirit". The seal is invisible, lol.
R
Oh I see what you are saying and missing. I guess I misunderstood what you were asking. So to address your question: You are equating the body of Christ as being part of the Earthly kingdom? As in you believe the Body will be here to rule and reign with Christ during the 1000 year reign on Earth? This is a misconception. We, the body of Christ, are destined for Heaven - not Earth. Christ has a kingdom both on Earth and in Heaven. A physical and a spiritual. Because by saying everyone in Acts is part of the Body - also puts the body of Christ in Revelation as well as the Kingdom on Earth. The video below is an amazing video on this issue. I hope you actually watch it! Stay with me now. This will be a long topic.
Col 1.15-20 shows this really well
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible (see physical and spiritual), whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Take note that in the above verses God says there are Thrones, Dominions, Principalities, and Powers - BOTH in Heaven and on Earth. We, the body of Christ, our purpose is to take back those positions in Heaven from Satan. As for the Earth, Israel, will reclaim it by holding those same positions ON Earth!
Eph 1.10
Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Before Paul ever came on the scene, Jews were always looking for a physical kingdom on Earth. Not until you see Paul get saved and he starts preaching do you see saints looking to go to heaven with Christ. You will never see people in the OT or Heb-Rev looking to go to heaven and reign there with Christ. They were waiting for their Messiah and for him to bring forth his Kingdom and bring salvation to the gentile nations. This program with Israel was interrupted when Paul was saved (hence the Body of Christ starts in Acts 9). And God brought in a NEW dispensation. Called the MYSTERY - Where there is neither Jew nor Gentile, but a new creature that is DESTINED for Heaven. Our kingdom in Heaven, which is spiritual. We get a spiritual body too!
We will rule and reign with Christ in Heaven, not Earth. Only until the fullness of times will God bring both Heaven and Earth together. That is he brings together both Israel and Earth with the body of Christ and Heaven. There is not much in the bible about what happens after all of that. We just have to wait and see. Which is something to look forward to.
Kingdom of Heaven and Kingdom of God
Gospel of the Kingdom vs. Gospel of the Grace of God
[video=youtube;08SmMoxCnyM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08SmMoxCnyM[/video]
If we actually believe that anyone that is walking in the flesh will not be in heaven - we have no idea what the gospel actually is not do we have a clue about the "why" of the gospel in the first place.
Nor have we ever read 1 Cor. - the worst behaving church imaginable and yet Paul called the righteous, holy, complete in Christ, sanctified , having the mind of Christ.
These believers were having sex with the temple prostitutes, they were in divisions and strife with each other, taking the other to court,..etc. Paul didn't say 'You are all going to hell now".
Paul told them their true identity in Christ so that they could access the grace that is in them in their true self in Christ.
M
Of course not.....that's why we preach the gospel of the grace of Christ so that they will get saved and live by faith - not in their "good works".
The Just do not live by good works and going to church, praying, reading the bible, witnessing or feeding the poor. The just live by faith in what Christ has already done for them.
The gospel has been so watered down by works-based salvationists that the real gospel has been not really preached. The present state of the church is indicative of what has been preached at them for the last 70 years.
Only the true gospel of the grace of God supplies the grace needed for people to walk free and bring forth the fruit of His life in an through them so that they world can see the love of God for them.
Religion always gets the gospel and the grace of God backwards and thus nullifies the very grace of God needed to manifest t the exchanged life we have in our new creation in Christ. They are forever attempting to create and maintain what Christ Himself already accomplished for them They then continually bombard other believers to try to live the same way.
The Just do not live by good works and going to church, praying, reading the bible, witnessing or feeding the poor. The just live by faith in what Christ has already done for them.
The gospel has been so watered down by works-based salvationists that the real gospel has been not really preached. The present state of the church is indicative of what has been preached at them for the last 70 years.
Only the true gospel of the grace of God supplies the grace needed for people to walk free and bring forth the fruit of His life in an through them so that they world can see the love of God for them.
Religion always gets the gospel and the grace of God backwards and thus nullifies the very grace of God needed to manifest t the exchanged life we have in our new creation in Christ. They are forever attempting to create and maintain what Christ Himself already accomplished for them They then continually bombard other believers to try to live the same way.
Thanks for the replies. I am not talking about an earthly kingdom, but God's spiritual kingdom. I agree with about everything you say. I've been through all the teaching and studying. What I disagree with you on is when the church started. Even in Paul's writings he knew the Lord could come and fulfill the literal kingdom. It's not until the end of Acts when he is finally done reaching out to the Jews and going strictly to the Gentiles and God's program was officially suspended until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.
If Paul as a convert from killing Christians, called by Jesus to spread His very revelation,
Paul is not going to contradict Jesus.
So by this simple revelation whatever you are suggesting is merely heresy.
Now if you know how to walk as Jesus walked, to know how he fulfilled the law of Moses
and brought communion between man and God through the Holy Spirit.
Most talk theories and not things of the heart, which betrays the source of their
inspiration.
Paul is not going to contradict Jesus.
So by this simple revelation whatever you are suggesting is merely heresy.
Now if you know how to walk as Jesus walked, to know how he fulfilled the law of Moses
and brought communion between man and God through the Holy Spirit.
Most talk theories and not things of the heart, which betrays the source of their
inspiration.
These Scriptures say that Paul's teaching supercedes the direct words of Jesus in the Gospels??!!!
Colossians 1:25,26:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Ephesians 3:3-7
[SUP]3 [/SUP]How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
Yes, indeed Paul had a special job description: to reveal the mystery that had been hidden to the Gentiles.
Where do these texts say that Paul's writings are superior to the words of Jesus in the Gospels? You have to read it into the text if you want them to say that, because they don't say it!
I looked at the other verse you gave, and they are similar in theme, but none of them says that Paul's writings are superior to the words of Jesus in the Gospels.
Colossians 1:25,26:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Ephesians 3:3-7
[SUP]3 [/SUP]How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
Yes, indeed Paul had a special job description: to reveal the mystery that had been hidden to the Gentiles.
Where do these texts say that Paul's writings are superior to the words of Jesus in the Gospels? You have to read it into the text if you want them to say that, because they don't say it!
I looked at the other verse you gave, and they are similar in theme, but none of them says that Paul's writings are superior to the words of Jesus in the Gospels.
All of Scripture is equally superior and from the Lord, but do you follow all of the directions given in the Bible? Of course not. So how do you determine which directions in the Bible to follow? The doctrine given to Paul was given him by Jesus Christ through an abundance of revelations. Truths that had never been revealed. Why? Because God's direction was changing due to the fact that the nation of Israel was rejecting their promised kingdom.
The thing with determining scripture and what it says, you then have different interpretations of the same scriptures. you can show one person this
matthew 7:19-22 "Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
and different theological beliefs will say different things. " this doesnt apply to Christians" " the fruit isnt actions" everythoing pre-cross is only for isreal" " paul taught the real gospel, hes the authority" " everything changed after the cross" " jesus taught the Law, and we died to the Law" ect.....different forms of omission, believing that Jesus didnt speak the true gospel, or that we are supposed to determine what it means rather than believing what He says. Jesus really is the most plain speaker in the bible, he requires no interpretation but only faith in His truth, but as we have been told since the old testament and throughout the new
there will be false doctrine after false doctrine, destitute of truth exchanging it for man made, man pleasing doctrine rather than God given and God pleasing doctrine. I agree with you we have to Just study and share scripture, but....there are so many denominations for a reason. Humanism tends to think all denominations, all doctrines lead to the same place, but as Jesus said very plainly " No man comes to the Father but through me"
when a distortion is accepted and modified and spread, as the apostle wrote " it spreads like gangrene or a cancer on what is pure and incorruptable, meaning the true Gospel of Gods Kingdom taught by Jesus and the apostles all. we live in a world where respecting opinions wrong or right, if you call what is false, false according to scripture " you are making it say what you want" or you are " attacking and judging others" false doctrine kills those who would Live. No matterwho says it if they are saying " trust everything Jesus taught to His disciples, learn it, and give your lives to following after HIS word" they are speaking the truth. black, white, young, old, male female, poor , rich foreigner or native, big or small. The truth is Jesus Christ alone.
matthew 7:19-22 "Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
and different theological beliefs will say different things. " this doesnt apply to Christians" " the fruit isnt actions" everythoing pre-cross is only for isreal" " paul taught the real gospel, hes the authority" " everything changed after the cross" " jesus taught the Law, and we died to the Law" ect.....different forms of omission, believing that Jesus didnt speak the true gospel, or that we are supposed to determine what it means rather than believing what He says. Jesus really is the most plain speaker in the bible, he requires no interpretation but only faith in His truth, but as we have been told since the old testament and throughout the new
there will be false doctrine after false doctrine, destitute of truth exchanging it for man made, man pleasing doctrine rather than God given and God pleasing doctrine. I agree with you we have to Just study and share scripture, but....there are so many denominations for a reason. Humanism tends to think all denominations, all doctrines lead to the same place, but as Jesus said very plainly " No man comes to the Father but through me"
when a distortion is accepted and modified and spread, as the apostle wrote " it spreads like gangrene or a cancer on what is pure and incorruptable, meaning the true Gospel of Gods Kingdom taught by Jesus and the apostles all. we live in a world where respecting opinions wrong or right, if you call what is false, false according to scripture " you are making it say what you want" or you are " attacking and judging others" false doctrine kills those who would Live. No matterwho says it if they are saying " trust everything Jesus taught to His disciples, learn it, and give your lives to following after HIS word" they are speaking the truth. black, white, young, old, male female, poor , rich foreigner or native, big or small. The truth is Jesus Christ alone.
yeah read joseph princes " gospel" and you'll understand how the bible really doesnt say what it says....things like " its all about learning your true identity" " and even if you go steal tomorrow, that doesnt make you a sinner" " the finished works means if you set your mind and heart to actually obey God...you are working for your own salvation" " God can no longer see your sin now" " No one really ever stops sinning" " repentance doesnt mean to actually stop the action, its just to learn your real identity" " paul is the ultimate authority over the church" christians arent disciples of Jesus" were the church, isreal had to obey God to be saved, christians though, they have a special grace that changes everything"
"we make no provisions to continue in sin, but you are already saved whether you repent or not" " if you sin as a believer, you will suffer consequences, but only in this life" has nothing to do with eternal Life" " this doesnt apply to you, that does, this verse is meant for Christians, but no not that other one that says obey".....its an endless circle with the grace grace folks. youll never actually know what thier saying because when you hear plainly what they are saying.....then " were not saying that you just hate grace." in the moind of joseph prince, any guilt for sin, is of the devil, you dont need to forgive others like Jesus said, or repent and turn to God and do works meet for repentance as PAUL said very clearly. Paul taught only free gift salvation that you have no choice to reject or deny."
just a pre view of what your in for
"we make no provisions to continue in sin, but you are already saved whether you repent or not" " if you sin as a believer, you will suffer consequences, but only in this life" has nothing to do with eternal Life" " this doesnt apply to you, that does, this verse is meant for Christians, but no not that other one that says obey".....its an endless circle with the grace grace folks. youll never actually know what thier saying because when you hear plainly what they are saying.....then " were not saying that you just hate grace." in the moind of joseph prince, any guilt for sin, is of the devil, you dont need to forgive others like Jesus said, or repent and turn to God and do works meet for repentance as PAUL said very clearly. Paul taught only free gift salvation that you have no choice to reject or deny."
just a pre view of what your in for
My goodness how malice infects our minds...it's time for all of us to grow up!
1 Peter 2:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1[/SUP] Therefore, putting aside all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander,
[SUP]2[/SUP] like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation,
1 Peter 2:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1[/SUP] Therefore, putting aside all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander,
[SUP]2[/SUP] like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation,
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