Eternal Security You CANNOT lose your salvation! by David J. Stewart | January 2004

FranC · Feb 17, 2017

FOH

How do you explain Mathew 13:20-21 ?

Someone hears the word
He IMMEDIATELY RECEIVES it WITH JOY
Yet it is TEMPORARY and when affliction or persection because of the word comes, he immediately falls away.

This is Jesus speaking here.
The person RECEIVES the word WITH JOY.

What does this mean to you?

It's TEMPORARY. The person falls away.
What does this mean to you?

How do you get by these verses and so many more?

In case you have any doubt as to what is meant by RECEIVE, here is Strong's:

Strong's Concordance
lambanó: to take, receive
Original Word: λαμβάνω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: lambanó
Phonetic Spelling: (lam-ban'-o)
Short Definition: I receive, take
Definition: (a) I receive, get, (b) I take, lay hold of.
HELPS Word-studies
2983 lambánō (from the primitive root, lab-, meaning "actively lay hold of to take or receive," see NAS dictionary) – properly, to lay hold by aggressively (actively) accepting what is available (offered). 2983 /lambánō ("accept with initiative") emphasizes the volition (assertiveness) of the receiver.

Fran

FranC · Feb 17, 2017

FreeNChrist said:

Good try.
But this is not what it means.

I've already posted this and repeating is rather boring.
But here goes...

2 Timothy 2:12
If we deny Him
He also will deny us

2 Timothy 2:13
If we are faithless, He remains faithful
For He cannot deny Himself

Just let's make it easy for a moment.
Does the word of God contradict itself?
NO.

So if 12 says He WILL deny us IF we deny HIM

How could 13 say that even if we're faithless, HE will still be faithful to us?
If we ever deny Jesus at some point, HE WILL SURELY DENY US. This is plain to understand.

So how is Jesus faithful to Himself? This is the question.

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(13) If we believe not.—Better rendered, if we are faithless—that is, untrue to the vows of our Christian profession. The faithlessness implies more than mere unbelief in any of the fundamental doctrines of the faith, such as the Resurrection of the Lord or His divinity.
Yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.—Those who have understood these words as containing soothing, comforting voices for the sinner, for the faithless Christian who has left his first love, are gravely mistaken. The passage is one of distinct severity—may even be termed one of the sternest in the Book of Life; for it tells how it is impossible even for the pitiful Redeemer to forgive in the future life. “He cannot deny Himself”—cannot treat the faithless as though he were faithful—cannot act as though faithfulness and faithlessness were one and the same thing. The Christian teacher, such as Timothy, and the members of his flock likewise, must remember that, sure and certain as are the promises of glory and happiness to those who love the Lord and try to live His life, so surely will fall the chastisement on all who are faithless and untrue.

With the solemn words of this “faithful saying” St. Paul closes this, the second division of his Epistle—fellowship in the sufferings of Christ here, on this side the grave, and fellowship in the glory of Christ there, on the other side the grave—the one side was the sure consequence of the other; the one could not exist without the other.
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

Expositor's Greek Testament
2 Timothy 2:13. εἰ ἀπιοτοῦμεν: It is reasonable to hold that the sense of ἀπιστέω in this place must be determined by the antithesis of πιστὸς μένει. Now πιστός, as applied to God, must mean faithful (Deuteronomy 7:9); one who “keepeth truth for ever” (Psalm 146:6; 2 Corinthians 1:18; 1 Thessalonians 5:24; 2 Thessalonians 3:3; Hebrews 10:23; Hebrews 11:11). There is the same contrast in Romans 3:3, “Shall their want of faith (ἀπιστία) make of none effect the faithfulness (πίστιν) of God?” But while we render ἀπιστοῦμεν, with R.V., are faithless, we must remember that unreliability and disbelief in the truth were closely allied in St. Paul’s conception of them.

ἀρνήσασθαι γὰρ—οὐ δύναται: Being essentially the unchangeable Truth, He cannot be false to His own nature, as we, when ἀπιστοῦμεν, are false to our better nature which has affinity with the Eternal. A lie in word, or unfaithfulness in act, is confessedly only an expedient to meet a temporary difficulty; it involves a disregard of the permanent element in our personality. The more a man realises the transitory nature of created things, and his own kinship with the Eternal, the more unnatural and unnecessary does falsity in word or deed appear to him. It is therefore inconceivable that God should lie (Numbers 23:19; 1 Samuel 15:29; Malachi 3:6; Titus 1:2; Hebrews 6:18). The application of the clause here is not that “He will not break faith with us” (Alf.), but that the consideration of our powerlessness to affect the constancy of God our Father should brace us up to exhibit moral courage, as being His “true children”.

Fran

FranC · Feb 17, 2017

Grandpa said:

I am eternally secure when I am believing in Christ who died to save me.

Ephesians 2:8
I have faith, I am saved by the Grace of God through faith.

If I don't have faith and believe in Jesus, I am not secure.

Why do you suppose EVERY SINGLE Christian Church believes the following:

To be saved one must:

1. believe he is a sinner
2. believe he needs salvation
3. believe that Jesus was born
4. believe that Jesus died for our sins
5. believe that jesus was resurrected
6. Accept Jesus as Savior. Die with Him to live for Him.

What would be the point of listing ANY DOCTRINE at all, if all I needed to do to be saved FOREVER
is to have believed ONE TIME IN MY WHOLE LIFE?

God makes a lot of sense, I think.
Your way of thinking makes no sense.

Fran

OneFaith · Feb 17, 2017

kevan1234 said:

Eternal Security
You CANNOT lose your salvation!

by David J. Stewart | January 2004 | Updated October 2014

Eternal Security is the Biblical doctrine that a believer CANNOT lose salvation in Christ Jesus. I recently spoke with a Church of Christ minister who believed that a Christian could LOSE their salvation by failing to maintain a “relationship” with God. Of course, that is a lie of the Devil. The Charismatics are also plagued with this false belief that a person can lose their salvation. Calvinists call this false doctrine, the “Perseverance of the Saints,” that is, they say that you must persevere in good works and continued faith to remain in a state of salvation. The Salvation Army teaches this heresy.

In sharp contrast to the heresies you've just learned about, the Bible teaches: “If Saved, Always Saved.” Salvation is not doing your best, it is having Christ's best put to your account through receiving Him by faith. Christ died for our sins on the cross, He was buried and raised up bodily from the dead three days later. This is the Gospel (1st Corinthians 15:1-4). John 6:28-29, “Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” Believe and the work is done, you are saved securely and eternally.

Salvation is By Faith Alone in the Gospel

SInce mankind has nothing to do with saving himself, then why would God require men to do something to maintain it? Salvation is of God, not men. Paul said to “work out your own salvation” in Philippians 2:12; the Bible doesn't say to work out GOD'S SALVATION. God saves a person, pulling them out of the fires of Hell, but now that person needs to be recycled. It is up to us whether we yield to the Holy Spirit or not in our daily life, to search and obey the Scriptures. However, salvation and discipleship are two separate things entirely. Whether or not a believer lives a holy life has nothing to do with the “free gift” (Romans 5:15) of salvation. Those who say otherwise are adding works to grace, which the Bible condemns (Romans 11:6). Salvation cannot be by God's grace AND man's self-righteous works. Revelation 22:17 states: “...And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.”

We are clearly taught from God's Word that works are NOT essential to our salvation. Titus 3:5 states... “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us...” And again in Ephesians 2:8,9 we are told, “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” We are all Hell-deserving sinners! We do NOT have anything to do with salvation except to receive God's free gift by FAITH. Salvation is receiving, NOT giving. Romans 4:5 reads, “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.” This is how Abraham was saved in the Old Testament, i.e., his faith was COUNTED for righteousness (Genesis 15:6). Acts 10:43 teaches that Old Testament sinners were saved exactly as they are today... “To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”

If I cannot do good works to get saved,
then how can I do bad works to lose salvation?

Eternal life is a gift, paid for by Jesus' precious, redeeming, literal, physical, liquid, blood (1st Peter 1:18,19; Hebrews 9:12; Revelation 1:5). Shame on those heretics, such as Dan Corner, who corrupt the simplicity that is in Christ.

There is a perverted theology today that mixes faith in Christ with surrendering one's life to God in obedience. This false doctrine is called “Lordship Salvation” and it is evil. The very idea that one's lifestyle is a part of saving faith is damnable heresy. Opponents of Eternal Security all follow Lordship Salvation, and they all use the corrupted New International Version. Please listen to the MP3 sermon by Dr. Curtis Hutson titled, “Why A Man Goes To Hell” (Men are not lost because they won't quit their sinning!”).

Perhaps you ask, what if a believer loses faith? A believer certainly may become discouraged, or falter in their faith for a time. John the Baptist became discouraged and wavered in his faith, even questioning if Jesus were the Christ (Matthew 11:3); yet, Jesus called John the greatest born amongst women (Matthew 11:3,11). The Apostle Peter denied that he knew Christ, cursing the name of Jesus; but the Holy Spirit convicted him, and Peter afterwards repented. When king David commit the sins of adultery, conspiracy and murder, he greatly shamed and brought reproach upon the name of the Lord; yet, we find David repenting, crying out to God for mercy as a Christian in Psalms 51, and God faithfully pardoned him. David never lost God's salvation. If saved, always saved! None of these believers LOST their salvation, and there's not one shred of Biblical evidence to show otherwise.

If you are a parent, your child didn't make a commitment to become your child; but rather, they were born to become your child. Likewise, we are born-again to become God's child. Just as a child has absolutely NOTHING to do with his or her own birth, neither does the Christian have anything to do with their spiritual birth. It is completely of God. Our part is done the moment we receive Jesus as the Christ, the Son of God—believing that He died on the cross for our sins, was buried, and raised up from the dead three days later (1st Corinthians 15:1-4). John 1:12, “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.”

If you don't believe the Bible, you can either get right or die wrong.

for more information please visit http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Believer's%20Corner/eternal_security.htm

We have biblical examples of people losing their salvation and of almost losing their salvation. Do not be deceived. We MUST "work out our salvation with fear and trembling." You see, there is the Elect of God (Christians) and the VERY Elect of God (Christians who not only believe, but obey). ONLY the very Elect will be saved. "If it is HARD for a Christian to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"

For the VERY Elect, you're right- they have eternal security because they are doing what God said, and God is true to His Word. But for those who only wear the name "Christian" and think they can do whatever they want and that their sins will be covered anyways- they are deceiving themselves. "For those who sin willfully there no longer remains a sacrifice for their sins." (Biggest warning ever!)

Is it possible to move from the very Elect to just the Elect? Yes it is! Therefore, you CAN lose your salvation. Salvation is for those who obey Him faithfully until the end.

"IF you remain faithful till the end you will receive a crown of life."

notuptome · Feb 17, 2017

FranC said:

Salvation is not reformation but transformation. One cannot end belief in Christ.

Jesus words are the word of God. Paul wrote the word of God as the Holy Spirit directed so he is a writer of the word of God or Jesus as they are equal.

Having received the word if one is to fall away it is to the loss of rewards not of salvation. This is where working to obtain grace falls flat on its face.

Real question is where does that leave the individual in their relationship to God and His word. Can you trust Christ to save you without anything else? Do you only trust Christ to save you if you help Him?

The degree of panic in your posts is quite concerning. Yield yourself completely to the care of Jesus and He will do all that is needed to present you faultless before the throne of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

dcontroversal · Feb 17, 2017

notuptome said:

Again I will say....

ALL who say they can lose it are either deceived, liars or 100% of the time walking in righteousness never sinning or failing...

Hebrews states it is IMPOSSIBLE to regain IF IT COULD BE LOST

SO......FOR ALL who say they can lose it.....

1. Either your 100% right ALL the time and NEVER SIN and ALWAYS do what is right or
2. YOUR LOST and cannot ever get it back and are toast

SO which is it........one or the other!

FreeNChrist · Feb 17, 2017

FranC said:

Good try.
But this is not what it means.

I've already posted this and repeating is rather boring.
But here goes...

2 Timothy 2:12
If we deny Him
He also will deny us

2 Timothy 2:13
If we are faithless, He remains faithful
For He cannot deny Himself

Just let's make it easy for a moment.
Does the word of God contradict itself?
NO.

So if 12 says He WILL deny us IF we deny HIM

How could 13 say that even if we're faithless, HE will still be faithful to us?
If we ever deny Jesus at some point, HE WILL SURELY DENY US. This is plain to understand.

So how is Jesus faithful to Himself? This is the question.

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(13) If we believe not.—Better rendered, if we are faithless—that is, untrue to the vows of our Christian profession. The faithlessness implies more than mere unbelief in any of the fundamental doctrines of the faith, such as the Resurrection of the Lord or His divinity.
Yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.—Those who have understood these words as containing soothing, comforting voices for the sinner, for the faithless Christian who has left his first love, are gravely mistaken. The passage is one of distinct severity—may even be termed one of the sternest in the Book of Life; for it tells how it is impossible even for the pitiful Redeemer to forgive in the future life. “He cannot deny Himself”—cannot treat the faithless as though he were faithful—cannot act as though faithfulness and faithlessness were one and the same thing. The Christian teacher, such as Timothy, and the members of his flock likewise, must remember that, sure and certain as are the promises of glory and happiness to those who love the Lord and try to live His life, so surely will fall the chastisement on all who are faithless and untrue.

With the solemn words of this “faithful saying” St. Paul closes this, the second division of his Epistle—fellowship in the sufferings of Christ here, on this side the grave, and fellowship in the glory of Christ there, on the other side the grave—the one side was the sure consequence of the other; the one could not exist without the other.
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

Expositor's Greek Testament
2 Timothy 2:13. εἰ ἀπιοτοῦμεν: It is reasonable to hold that the sense of ἀπιστέω in this place must be determined by the antithesis of πιστὸς μένει. Now πιστός, as applied to God, must mean faithful (Deuteronomy 7:9); one who “keepeth truth for ever” (Psalm 146:6; 2 Corinthians 1:18; 1 Thessalonians 5:24; 2 Thessalonians 3:3; Hebrews 10:23; Hebrews 11:11). There is the same contrast in Romans 3:3, “Shall their want of faith (ἀπιστία) make of none effect the faithfulness (πίστιν) of God?” But while we render ἀπιστοῦμεν, with R.V., are faithless, we must remember that unreliability and disbelief in the truth were closely allied in St. Paul’s conception of them.

ἀρνήσασθαι γὰρ—οὐ δύναται: Being essentially the unchangeable Truth, He cannot be false to His own nature, as we, when ἀπιστοῦμεν, are false to our better nature which has affinity with the Eternal. A lie in word, or unfaithfulness in act, is confessedly only an expedient to meet a temporary difficulty; it involves a disregard of the permanent element in our personality. The more a man realises the transitory nature of created things, and his own kinship with the Eternal, the more unnatural and unnecessary does falsity in word or deed appear to him. It is therefore inconceivable that God should lie (Numbers 23:19; 1 Samuel 15:29; Malachi 3:6; Titus 1:2; Hebrews 6:18). The application of the clause here is not that “He will not break faith with us” (Alf.), but that the consideration of our powerlessness to affect the constancy of God our Father should brace us up to exhibit moral courage, as being His “true children”.

Fran

And yet Peter denied Him. Go figure.

dcontroversal · Feb 17, 2017

FreeNChrist said:

Post 546 and her theology falls way short

dcontroversal · Feb 17, 2017

FreeNChrist said:

I know...I Immediately thought of Peter.....Hebrews states it is IMPOSSIBLE to get it back if it is losable....so.....Guess Peter wrote two N.T. books as a lost man......see how foolish and ignorant it is to believe one can lose it....

LOST SAVED LOST SAVED LOST SAVED LOST SAVED LOST SAVED LOST SAVED LOST SAVED LOST SAVED LOST SAVED
LOST SAVED LOST SAVED LOST SAVED LOST SAVED LOST SAVED LOST SAVED LOST SAVED LOST SAVED LOST SAVED
LOST SAVED LOST SAVED LOST SAVED LOST SAVED LOST SAVED LOST SAVED LOST SAVED LOST SAVED LOST SAVED
LOST SAVED LOST SAVED LOST SAVED LOST SAVED LOST SAVED LOST SAVED LOST SAVED LOST SAVED LOST SAVED
LOST SAVED LOST SAVED LOST SAVED LOST SAVED LOST SAVED LOST SAVED LOST SAVED LOST SAVED LOST SAVED

Good thing God can count the very hairs of your head.....imagine how he must have a hard time to keep up with the above rigmarole

Grandpa · Feb 18, 2017

FranC said:

Can you believe in gravity one time in your whole life and then stop?

Can you believe in aerodynamics one time in your whole life and then stop?

What happens if you manage this feat? Does gravity cease to exist? Do aerodynamics?

I don't think you understand what believing actually is. If you did you would realize the absurdity of your suggestion.

If you have received salvation it is not because of some abstract strength of your will. No one is causing their own salvation by the strength and endurance of their understanding.

It is the gift of God. And as with all of Gods Gifts they are not rescinded.

dcontroversal · Feb 18, 2017

Grandpa said:

Can you believe in gravity one time in your whole life and then stop?

Can you believe in aerodynamics one time in your whole life and then stop?

What happens if you manage this feat? Does gravity cease to exist? Do aerodynamics?

I don't think you understand what believing actually is. If you did you would realize the absurdity of your suggestion.

If you have received salvation it is not because of some abstract strength of your will. No one is causing their own salvation by the strength and endurance of their understanding.

It is the gift of God. And as with all of Gods Gifts they are not rescinded.

Absolutely...................!

FranC · Feb 19, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Dcontroversal

The above is an incorrect interpretation of loss of salvation.

It looks like you think it's lost when we sin.
It CANNOT be LOST SAVED LOST SAVED LOST SAVED

This is rediculous.

One is saved. It MOST PROBABLY lasts his Whole life since it's difficult to abandon God once you have tasted of his goodness.

However, we cannot deny that the bible is full of verses that put belief into the present tense, that exhort us to hold fast, and that tell us not to fall away.

So, what are all these verses for? To tell us to hang on to Christ and not let go. Many Let Go and abandon Him.

Please listen to what I'm saying. I feel like you come to read my posts with preconceived ideas.

Fran

FranC · Feb 19, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Absolutely WHAT???????????

If someone stops believing in GRAVITY
GAVITY still exists....

If I stop believing in GOD
GOD still exists.....

Fran

FranC · Feb 19, 2017

Grandpa said:

Grandpa,

If I stop believing in GOD
GOD will STILL exist. (just like gravity and all those other things you mentioned)

However, HOW can I be SAVED if I DON'T believe in God????

Is BELIEF not required for salvation?
John 3:16

Fran

blue_ladybug · Feb 19, 2017

Actually, faith is (also)..

oldethennew · Feb 19, 2017

Peter's denial was said to man through fear, not a change of heart...

Grandpa · Feb 19, 2017

FranC said:

How do you stop believing in something that you know will still exist after you stop believing in it?

Grandpa · Feb 19, 2017

oldethennew said:

Where does it say that?

valiant · Feb 19, 2017

Grandpa said:

in John 21

valiant · Feb 19, 2017

FranC said:

and because He is faithful God will still hold me up, just as gravity will.

Salvation is a life time thing, not something taken up for a moment. His salvation is certain and complete once begun. God is faithful to His promises and to His grace.

But belief there is a response from the heart to what Jesus is. Such belief is eternal. It is dependent on the One Who makes it possible, not on a man clinging on at any cost. 'They shall NEVER perish.'

Eternal Security You CANNOT lose your salvation! by David J. Stewart | January 2004

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