Women Pastors? Help me.

[Enow]

If some of you folks would read your bibles, it teaches nobody has any authority over anyone, so the whole argument is moot.

Genesis 3:[SUP]16 [/SUP]Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

The curse is still in effect and so men are to rule over the women.

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.[SUP]2 [/SUP]Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.[SUP]3 [/SUP]For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:[SUP]4 [/SUP]For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.[SUP]5 [/SUP]Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.[SUP]6 [/SUP]For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.[SUP]7 [/SUP]Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

We are to be submissive to those in government authority.

Hebrews 13:[SUP]7 [/SUP]Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.....[SUP]17 [/SUP]Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.....[SUP]24 [/SUP]Salute all them that have the rule over you, and all the saints. They of Italy salute you.

That shows the accountability of those that minister as they are to rule over us for our good in the Lord.

Do you realize you've thrown out Joel's prophecy that was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost in Acts?

Women can serve Him in outreach ministry and in this forum as an outreach ministry. If women did that and the men do their jobs in the assembly as the Lord enables, members would be added to the church every day.

 

[Dagallen]

Genesis 3:[SUP]16 [/SUP]Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

The curse is still in effect and so men are to rule over the women.

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.[SUP]2 [/SUP]Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.[SUP]3 [/SUP]For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:[SUP]4 [/SUP]For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.[SUP]5 [/SUP]Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.[SUP]6 [/SUP]For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.[SUP]7 [/SUP]Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

We are to be submissive to those in government authority.

Hebrews 13:[SUP]7 [/SUP]Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.....[SUP]17 [/SUP]Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.....[SUP]24 [/SUP]Salute all them that have the rule over you, and all the saints. They of Italy salute you.

That shows the accountability of those that minister as they are to rule over us for our good in the Lord.



Women can serve Him in outreach ministry and in this forum as an outreach ministry. If women did that and the men do their jobs in the assembly as the Lord enables, members would be added to the church every day.

There is no curse still in affect, that's foolishness !

 

[StanJ]

It appears that some on here, have gotten off topic.

Sadly this is inevitable with no moderators to keep it on track.

 

[tourist]

It appears that some on here, have gotten off topic.

After 1344 posts what more is there to say?

 

[Dagallen]

Sadly this is inevitable with no moderators to keep it on track.

That clearly is true, I don't kniw how anyone can discuss a topic, if they won't stay on topic

 

[Dagallen]

After 1344 posts what more is there to say?

When some went back to Adam and Eve and the curse and the laws of sin or the laws given to the Jews, I know this would become more of a mess than not. A person can discuss all the above, however one must reach some point of understanding on this topic, it just appears to me, that some can't accept, that when we are one in Christ, it prepares us to be as one in the Kingdom of God, in Christ and in the Kingdom of God, gender plays no part.

 

[Enow]

There is no curse still in affect, that's foolishness !

If you look at the curse of man, is that still in effect?

Genesis 3:[SUP]17 [/SUP]And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;[SUP]19 [/SUP]In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

I still see thistles and thorns growing out of the ground and when we die, we go to the ground to become dust.

And for women...

Genesis 3:[SUP]16 [/SUP]Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Women still have pains during child birth and so that command from the Lord of the husband shall rule over her is still in effect.

So I do not know how you can say that is foolishness when the N.T. re-enforces that commandment.

 

[StanJ]

After 1344 posts what more is there to say?

Oh trust me, some will always want to flight a dead horse, even if they killed it!

 

[Dino246]

Genesis 3:[SUP]16 [/SUP]Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
...

Foretelling, not commanding. Try again.

 

[wolfwint]

If some of you folks would read your bibles, it teaches nobody has any authority over anyone, so the whole argument is moot.

ALL of the known writers of the epistles states they are God's servants. The only real authority is of & from God.
Plus, in the verses used, the context is ignored to twist this doctrine into effect.

Which brings me to this question..... Will you ignore God's word to cuddle & cradle your false doctrine?

Men, are you so immature you can't handle women ministers? Prophets? Teachers?

Do you realize you've thrown out Joel's prophecy that was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost in Acts?

Hi Stephan, you know your bible?
Then how come to the idea that Joel prophecy has been complete fulfilled on the day of pentecost in Acts?

Here the text: Joel 2, 25-32
"And I will restore to you the years that the swarming locust has eaten, the crawling locust, and the consuming locust, and the cutting locust, my great army which I sent among you. 26 And you shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, who has dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed. 27 And you shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed. 28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. 30 And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. 31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD comes. 32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD has said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call."

Who is meant with all flesh in vers 28? a) the jews; b)all mankind, c) all christians, d) all penetcostal and charismatics
If you study the text in acts you will find our that only 120 people got the Holy Spirit in acts 2 on the day of pentecost. No reading from all jews in Jerusalem ore all mankind in Jerusalem! So this can only be an partly fulfillment of Joel 2, because all other events in the context of Joel 2, 28 has not been fulfilled till now!

 

[wolfwint]

Foretelling, not commanding. Try again.

Sorry! What bible you use? My bible says in Genesis 3,16: rule

 

[Dagallen]

If you look at the curse of man, is that still in effect?

Genesis 3:[SUP]17 [/SUP]And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;[SUP]19 [/SUP]In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

I still see thistles and thorns growing out of the ground and when we die, we go to the ground to become dust.

And for women...

Genesis 3:[SUP]16 [/SUP]Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Women still have pains during child birth and so that command from the Lord of the husband shall rule over her is still in effect.

So I do not know how you can say that is foolishness when the N.T. re-enforces that commandment.

Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law of sin, being made a curse fid us, for it is written, cursed is everyone that hangs on a tree. As before faith came, we were kept under the law of sin, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed, as the law of sin was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith, as no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, as the just live by faith.

 

[Enow]

Foretelling, not commanding. Try again.

That is not how Paul read that no any other Jew.

Genesis 3:[SUP]16 [/SUP]Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

1 Timothy 2:[SUP]11 [/SUP]Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.[SUP]12 [/SUP]But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.[SUP]13 [/SUP]For Adam was first formed, then Eve.[SUP]14 [/SUP]And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

You can see the reference to the curse in verses 13-14 as a command from Genesis.

1 Corinthians 14:[SUP]34[/SUP]Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.[SUP]35 [/SUP]And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.[SUP]36 [/SUP]What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?[SUP]37 [/SUP]If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

There is no way any believer can take those verses to mean that women were interrupting services with false doctrines when they are not even allowed to ask questions until they get home to get the answers from their husbands. If churches did that today, husbands would not be falling asleep in churches when their wives are expecting answers from them when they get home.

But if you cannot see that..... then we all shall let you be since God can only cause the increase.

 

[Enow]

Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law of sin, being made a curse fid us, for it is written, cursed is everyone that hangs on a tree. As before faith came, we were kept under the law of sin, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed, as the law of sin was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith, as no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, as the just live by faith.

The curse of the law in regards to the second death has been dealt with. That was about salvation.

People still die; thistles and thorns still pose a problem in the land; women still have birth pangs. There is no denying that the aspects of those curse due to the fall of man is still in effect.

Eventually, that will be all over with ... but the command for men to rule over the woman is still in effect, but even that will end where every other aspect due to the fall of man will be done also.

 

[Dino246]

Sorry! What bible you use? My bible says in Genesis 3,16: rule

The word in question is "shall", not "rule".

Genesis 3:[SUP]16 [/SUP]Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

1 Timothy 2:[SUP]11 [/SUP]Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.[SUP]12 [/SUP]But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.[SUP]13 [/SUP]For Adam was first formed, then Eve.[SUP]14 [/SUP]And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

You can see the reference to the curse in verses 13-14 as a command from Genesis.

1 Corinthians 14:[SUP]34[/SUP]Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.[SUP]35 [/SUP]...

There is no way any believer can take those verses to mean that women were interrupting services with false doctrines when they are not even allowed to ask questions until they get home to get the answers from their husbands. If churches did that today, husbands would not be falling asleep in churches when their wives are expecting answers from them when they get home.

But if you cannot see that..... then we all shall let you be since God can only cause the increase.

Your second-last paragraph is assumes that all women are married, which is patently untrue.

There is nothing in Genesis 3 which suggests that women should be silent, so your quote of "thus also sayeth the law" is unreasonable. Your assertion that 1 Tim 2:13-14 references "a command from Genesis" is groundless... it does no such thing. It merely states two facts: Adam was formed first, and Eve was deceived.

I'm getting weary of dealing with this issue repeatedly, with every complementarian (and misogynist) who joins this thread. I do wish people would do their homework and read through a thread before jumping in with their assertions.

 

[Dagallen]

The curse of the law in regards to the second death has been dealt with. That was about salvation.

People still die; thistles and thorns still pose a problem in the land; women still have birth pangs. There is no denying that the aspects of those curse due to the fall of man is still in effect.

Eventually, that will be all over with ... but the command for men to rule over the woman is still in effect, but even that will end where every other aspect due to the fall of man will be done also.

The only reason you say that men is to rule over woman is still in effort is because you don't believe that male and female are one in Christ. As far as physical death, death is no longer a curse but death is now a sacrifice.

 

[Enow]

The word in question is "shall", not "rule".

Your second-last paragraph is assumes that all women are married, which is patently untrue..

I doubt Paul was assuming that in church when addressing women in general as it still applies to single women in why they are not allowed to speak let alone teach or usurp authority over a man.

 

[Enow]

The only reason you say that men is to rule over woman is still in effort is because you don't believe that male and female are one in Christ. As far as physical death, death is no longer a curse but death is now a sacrifice.

Argue with Paul or check with the Lord. It is his words as moved by the Holy Ghost and counted as scripture by Peter that has been confirmed by the Lord Jesus Christ in me that it is His commandment.

2 Peter 3:[SUP]15 [/SUP]And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;[SUP]16 [/SUP]As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

I am done here. I leave this discussion to God.

 

[Dagallen]

Argue with Paul or check with the Lord. It is his words as moved by the Holy Ghost and counted as scripture by Peter that has been confirmed by the Lord Jesus Christ in me that it is His commandment.

2 Peter 3:[SUP]15 [/SUP]And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;[SUP]16 [/SUP]As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

I am done here. I leave this discussion to God.

Fair enough and I wish you the best.

 

[VCO]

Well just like you misinterpret the Bible and get it wrong you do the same thing with the purpose of this forum.
Despite what you think it should be in actuality it is a place of Fellowship and secondarily it can minister to the unsaved but that's on its main purpose.
As far as proving all things is concerned that only happens to people that are open to a different perspective of the word of God and when they are showing the truth they accept it period that does not work with the inculcated.
It can also only happen to those who have actually receive the baptism of Holy Spirit because it is the Holy Spirit's job to make God's word real and understandable in our lives.

Could you give us your personal definition of what YOU PERSONALLY MEAN by the baptism of Holy Spirit? The reason that I ask, is I have talked to a great number of Charismatics and Pentecostals, both on forums like this and in person, and while I find they all use that term; I find there are several different definition of that term out there.


1 Corinthians 12:13 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.


I read nothing more into that verse than the Holy Spirit takes all True Believers the moment they genuinely BELIEVE and IMMERSES them into the spiritual Body of Jesus Christ.