THE FOLLIES AND FALSE TEACHINGS OF JUDAIZERS LIKE HEBREW ROOT MOVEMENT/MESSIANIC JEWS

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Feb 1, 2014
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#21
i go to a messianic study group, the main focus is to praise and worship in the manner of the days of Jesus and the 12. there is no agenda that all other Christians are wrong and we are the only ones on the true path.
That's good. Do they reject foundational truths of the Christian faith, like the full deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Triune nature of God, or do they accept apocryphal writings or reject the writings of Paul? Those are other factors I'd consider.

Like I said earlier, I have no issue with those who don't claim that non-observers are in sin, and that observing Sabbath, festivals, clean meat laws, physical circumcision are conditions or requirements or necessary fruit of salvation. I made it clear that such individuals are not Judaizers.
 
Feb 1, 2014
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#22
-No burnt offerings or sacrifices orginaly given.
Jer 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that
I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

-no good standing with our Savior if you do not believe Moses and the prophets.

Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets,
neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

"But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I
the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:"

If Paul taught against the law (which is not true) then he certainly wouldn't have worshiped
by believing those things written therein. Paul was not a deceiver by opposing his own beliefs
that he taught to others.


after Acts 13, Acts 26:7 (KJV)
Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come.
For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.

-here Paul says that his hope to come, is in the promises given to the twelve tribes.

Romans 9:4
4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants,
and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

-the promises and the covenants of God, all the sonship and the glory, belong to Israel

The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads;
and [let my name] be named on them,
and [the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac];
and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth”
-

1. Paul was a Pharisee. A teacher of God's law. He continued to
call himself a Pharisee even after joining the church.

(Acts 23:6) Then Paul, knowing that some of them were Sadducees and the others Pharisees,
called out in the Sanhedrin, "My brothers, I am a Pharisee, descended from Pharisees.
I stand on trial because of the hope of the resurrection of the dead."


2. Paul loved God's law. It was a delight to him.

(Romans 7:22) For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being,


3. Paul called God's law holy.

(Romans 7:12) So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy,
righteous and good.


4. Paul knew that breaking God's law is the very definition of sin.

(1 John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law:
for sin is the transgression of the law.

5. Paul said that we don't nullify the law of God by our faith in Jesus Christ.

(Romans 3:31) Do we nullify the law by this faith? By no means!
Rather we uphold the law.

6. Paul often read from the scriptures on the sabbath (which is kept by the apostles 84
times in the book of Acts). And the only scriptures at that time was the old testament.

(Acts 17:2) As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue,
and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures.

7. Paul was accused of forsaking the law of Moses when he first joined the church.
(And ironically, he's still being accused today.)

(Act 21:21) They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among
the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children
or live according to our customs.


8. These accusations were shown to be false.

(Acts 21:24) Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses,
so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth
in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law.


9. When Paul was accused of forsaking the law of Moses, he always denied this,
and said he does live according to the law.

(Acts 24:14) But this I confess to you, that according to the Way, which they call
a sect, I worship the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the Law
and written in the Prophets,


10. Paul said that those who refuse to submit to the law are "carnal minded"
and hostile to God.

(Romans 8:7-8) The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit
to God's law, nor can it do so. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.


11. Paul continued to travel to Jerusalem to celebrate God's feast days
after joining the church.

(Acts 18:21) But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that
cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.


12. Paul often quoted from Moses's writings, and cited it as authority.

(1 Corinthians 9:9-10) Do I say this merely on human authority?
Doesn’t the Law say the same thing? For it is written in the Law of Moses:
“Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain.” Is it about oxen that God
is concerned? Surely he says this for us, doesn’t he? Yes, this was written for us,
because whoever plows and threshes should be able to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest.


13. Paul claimed that ALL scripture is good for instruction in righteousness,
and given through inspiration of God. He never singled out Moses' writings.

(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking,
correcting and training in righteousness,


14. Paul mentions that the levitical priests are still offering sacrifices to God
even after Christ's death on the cross.

(Hebrews 8:3-4) Every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices,
and so it was necessary for this one also to have something to offer.

If he were on earth, he would not be a priest, for there are already priests
who offer the gifts prescribed by the law.


15. The most well known teaching in Paul's letters is the one where he says
"you are not under law but under grace".

Millions of people quote this scripture, they almost always leave out the scripture
that immediately follows it. Watch what happens when you add the context....

(Romans 6:14-16) For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under
the law, but under grace. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law
but under grace? By no means! Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to
someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey--whether you are
slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?


16. Paul told the Colossians not to let anyone judge them because they were observing
God's sabbaths and feasts because these appointed times are "a shadow of things to come".

Meaning they reveal future events, just like the passover foreshadowed Christ's
sacrifice on the cross.(Colossians 2:16-17)


17. Paul never repremanded anyone for obeying God's law. Instead, he repremanded
new gentile converts, the Galatians, who were trying to be justified by the law,
instead of faith in Jesus Christ.

(Galatians 2:16) Know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith
in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by
faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

18. The Galatians, who Paul was repremanding for trying to be justified by the law,
were going back to serving other gods after they were circumcised. This is why Paul
had to explain that the works of the law can't earn your salvation.

(Galatians 4: 8-11) Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those
who by nature are not gods. But now that you know God—or rather are known by God
—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces? Do you wish
to be enslaved by them all over again? 10 You are observing special days and months
and seasons and years! I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.

- those weak and miserable forces where not Gods convocation

19. Paul understood that obedience to God's law is a natural result of salvation.
Once you become a true christian, God writes His law on your heart and mind,
and causes you to walk in them.(Hebrews 10:16)

(Hebrews 10:16) "This is the covenant I will make with them after that time,
says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds."

20. Paul's letters come with a warning label attached to them.

(2 Peter 3:16-17) He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these
matters.His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant
and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you
may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom:
and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom:
a good understanding have all they that do his commandments:
his praise endureth for ever.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge:
but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
prove-all is an Armstrongite, following the teachings of Herbert Armstrong. Armstrongites think they have the "true faith" and Christianity is a counterfeit gospel. Armstrongites believe non-Armstrongites are blinded spiritually and not real Christians.

In addition, they claim they will join the Godhead in the resurrection, and be fully God, just like God the Father and Jesus Christ.

Their view is that they are God in embryonic form, to be "born again" as fully God in the resurrection.

I have written a thread on Armstrongism if you're interested in reviewing what they believe. I am no longer an Armstrongite and am a normal evangelical Christian. prove-all has called me basically "worthless salt" who has lost his saltiness...implying that I'm a reprobate therefore have lost my salvation due to rejection of Herbie's doctrines.

Herbert Armstrong was a wild-eyed fanatic who falsely prophesied Christ's return on multiple occasions. There is very good reason to believe that he engaged in incestuous relationships with his teenage daughter.

I would look for similar imbalance in those who are attempting to teach such things. For instance, many SDAs believe that Jesuits are covertly trying to supplant knowledge of the Sabbath amongst Protestants. I have been accused of being a Jesuit by some of them due to my remarks about the Sabbath.

In addition, on the site, other Judaizers have made remarks like they knew "for sure" that Michelle Obama was really a man. How much credibility can I assign to someone who believes outlandish conspiracy theories like this? Yet that person is considered a "teacher" on the site. I strongly encourage you to evaluate whether such individuals are credible.

There are two Armstrongites on this site that will often comment on my threads..the other is john832. So, if he makes an appearance, don't be surprised :)

Here's my thread on Armstrongism:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/114577-beware-armstrongism.html
 
Feb 1, 2014
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#23
some of the Thread starters comments:

I encourage the Judaizer to move past the bottle-sucking, diaper-wearing state
and into the fullness of the New Covenant and the Law of Christ. And, I encourage seekers not
to be deceived by those who may seem spiritual but are really bottle-sucking, diaper wearing babies.

they are sucking on bottles and wearing diapers.

What kind of credibility can one assign to individuals who reflect a paranoid, divisive nature
like is common amongst Judaizers?

===================================================
'see why we abhor man-made-boxes-and-lists'?

as far as we are concerned, when any adult, who claims to be a Christian, speaks to vast groups
of people with such un-loving disrespect, whose hearts he certainly has no concept of, and so many
of them are daily, lovingly, honestly, seeking/searching for the right path to find/discover how to better
love/serve/obey their Maker from just where they happen to be right now in their precious-journey, -

we cannot help but to find your approach very dis-taste-ful, as well as so very
un-informed and incredibly 'judgmental'...

some intense 'soul-searching' is in order here...
Additionally, I invite you to put me on ignore and not read my threads. It's ok by me..my feelings won't be hurt :)

If you think that standing by, watching Judaizers deceive people with their false teachings, is "love", that's your problem. I don't think it is.
I wish some knowledgeable Christian would have guided me away from Armstrongism when I was a young man. It would have saved me a decade of wasted, unproductive years listening to wide-eyed, paranoid fanatics.

I employ strong language to counter the claims that Judaizers make in regards to their superior knowledge of Scripture. It is plain that they are ignoring the many Scriptures that teach against their position, yet claim that they are the sighted ones who know "the truth". My words are chosen to convey that they are not the ones who are sighted, but that they are blinded and are in the snare of Satan.
 
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jaybird88

Guest
#25
That's good. Do they reject foundational truths of the Christian faith, like the full deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Triune nature of God, or do they accept apocryphal writings or reject the writings of Paul? Those are other factors I'd consider.
we dont reject Paul. he was a good teacher.
church doctrine is argued just like it is in any group. we are all in agreement that laws of man should not be elevated to the same level as holy scripture, thats what the pharisees did and Jesus taught against.
 
Feb 1, 2014
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#26
we dont reject Paul. he was a good teacher.
church doctrine is argued just like it is in any group. we are all in agreement that laws of man should not be elevated to the same level as holy scripture, thats what the pharisees did and Jesus taught against.

The Trinity and the deity of Christ are biblical truths not laws of men. I wasn't asking about laws of men.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#27
The Trinity and the deity of Christ are biblical truths not laws of men. I wasn't asking about laws of men.
does mankind have the authority to write his own holy scripture?
 
M

MattTooFor

Guest
#28
Re: THE FOLLIES AND FALSE TEACHINGS OF JUDAIZERS LIKE HEBREW ROOT MOVEMENT/MESSIANIC

I want to mention that I have no issue with individuals who observe Sabbath, festivals, "clean meat" laws IF they don't claim that observance is a requirement, condition, or necessary fruit of salvation, OR they don't claim that others are in sin for non-observance.
I am with you 100% on this. I've run into these "Hebrew Roots" people myself.

But personally, I would recommend staying away from ANY Judaic practices. I don't even like this business of referring to "Yeshua" instead of "Jesus". To me, using "Yeshua" or "Yashua" is just a way of saying "I'm just little bit better than you". Am I wrong in my annoyance?

I guess I should concede there are probably those who have simply been taught to use this specialized lingo. But it's disappointing. I want to see ZERO Judaic influence among Bible-believing Christians. My personal leaning.

Of course, the whole "Hebrew Roots" thing is unrealistic. Virtually a fantasy. In other words, do these people sacrifice animals on an altar? Do they periodically gather behind their church building to conduct a stoning of, say, a young person who reviled his mother (or some other OT violation which required the death penalty)? No, they do not. Therefore is their entire cult invalidated.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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#29
In addition, they claim they will join the Godhead in the resurrection,
and be fully God, just like God the Father and Jesus Christ.

There are two Armstrongites on this site that will often comment on my threads
1 Corinthians 10:30 For if I by grace be a partaker,
why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?

I am A Begotten Son of God, I answer to no man, I explained my view.
We have discussed this issue, and I had asked you nice from the start,
To stop putting words in my mouth and repeating lies over and over, futile
Just a couple examples of this lack of memory sparkman has:

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ere-sabbath-day-christians-2.html#post2424113
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...mare-sabbath-torah-observers.html#post2428613
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...athkeeper-conspiracy-view-church-history.html

Standard disclaimer:
These remarks are not criticizing Sabbath or Torah Observers.....
Then you go on and do just that, the same ole sparkeman, can not refute scrupture by
the book, so he attackes and slanders the person, and spreads lies to cover his trail,
to make him look like the good guy. just accussing and judging others to discreated.

This is what the 2nd reinstatement of the sparksman? back to judge us again and again.

From the very first day, when you dug up some 20 old Sabbath threads on forum.
Just to post the same message in each one, about the hatred for your former church.
And you declairing all Sabbath keepers are wonkey in there thinking.
Does anyone here remember that day of disruption? Two or more witnesses come forward?

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...servers-nightmare-rather-than-proof-text.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...reading-refute-easter-haters.html#post2455233
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...reading-refute-easter-haters.html#post2455242
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/129344-nimrod-3.html#post2435956
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/135709-dr-michael-brown-sabbath-debate.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...abbath-pants-keeper-thread-3.html#post2456641
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/126289-christmas-reconsidered-ralph-woodrow.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...reconsidered-ralph-woodrow-2.html#post2372782
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...servers-nightmare-rather-than-proof-text.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...tions-concerning-covenants-2.html#post2422265
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...e-avoiding-doctrinal-error-3.html#post2378507
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/128937-what-happens-dead-when-they-die-3.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/115992-why-do-cults-appeal-some-seekers.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/128720-there-sabbath-day-christians.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/128720-there-sabbath-day-christians-2.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...abbath-pants-keeper-thread-3.html#post2456641
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...servers-nightmare-rather-than-proof-text.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...althcare-facilities-do-elective-abortions.htm


..the other is john832. So, if he makes an appearance, don't be surprised
Here is another bold lie directed at Someone who's last post was a month or two ago.

John has stated in plain english to sparkman, his views on the subject, and with
the bible to back it up, John would pull no punches, sparksman hated that.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/86325-seventh-day-adventism-10.html#post2592960
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/86325-seventh-day-adventism-10.html#post2599139
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/134268-when-actual-sabbath-7.html#post2590085
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/134268-when-actual-sabbath-7.html#post2580374


I believe you should be reported for your abusive language diricted at myself and others.
 
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jaybird88

Guest
#30
The Trinity and the deity of Christ are biblical truths not laws of men. I wasn't asking about laws of men.
dont you think the pharisees said the same thing of their doctrines?
 
Feb 28, 2016
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#31
Re: THE FOLLIES AND FALSE TEACHINGS OF JUDAIZERS LIKE HEBREW ROOT MOVEMENT/MESSIANIC

in reality, what you, 'Sparkman, is doing, is trying to 'absolve yourself' from
your 'FALLING-AWAY'...

go to your Maker, The Giver and Taker of all we possess,..
 
Feb 1, 2014
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#33
I am with you 100% on this. I've run into these "Hebrew Roots" people myself.

But personally, I would recommend staying away from ANY Judaic practices. I don't even like this business of referring to "Yeshua" instead of "Jesus". To me, using "Yeshua" or "Yashua" is just a way of saying "I'm just little bit better than you". Am I wrong in my annoyance?

I guess I should concede there are probably those who have simply been taught to use this specialized lingo. But it's disappointing. I want to see ZERO Judaic influence among Bible-believing Christians. My personal leaning.

Of course, the whole "Hebrew Roots" thing is unrealistic. Virtually a fantasy. In other words, do these people sacrifice animals on an altar? Do they periodically gather behind their church building to conduct a stoning of, say, a young person who reviled his mother (or some other OT violation which required the death penalty)? No, they do not. Therefore is their entire cult invalidated.
A big issue is that Jews view Christianity as being "Gentile" and referring to Jesus as Yeshua allows easier evangelism because Jews identify with Jesus as being one of their own kindred. Additionally, observance of the Sabbath, festivals, and clean meat laws can be a good thing for them because it keeps them connected to their community.

I have no issue with such motivations, or even Gentiles who observe these things, as long as they don't view them as requirements, conditions, or necessary fruit of salvation, and don't accuse others of being in sin for non-observance. However, many of them do.

I mentioned how these commandments were part of the "separation commandments" of the Mosaic Covenant, along with physical circumcision and clothing laws. I believe the intention of these commandments were to keep ancient Israelites from socially interacting with Gentiles, in order to keep them from idolatry. So, they served a purpose at one point, but I believe the issue is that SOME of those who are observing them now use them as criteria for judging non-observers, just like the Pharisees of Jesus' day.

I am very sympathetic to the plight of Messianic Jews of the current era and previous eras. Jews were made to forsake their traditional practices by the Church, in an unfair manner, when they were not Judaizers. There WERE Judaizers who caused trouble in the Church, in the apostolic era and afterwards, but I think some non-Judaizer Jews were unfairly treated.

So, my issue is with Judaizers and not those who observe Sabbath, festivals, and clean meat laws of the Mosaic Covenant, without making such claims, assuming that these individuals have sound doctrine and are Christ-centered.

There's a channel on YouTube called JerusalemAssembly. The fellowship is pastored by Meno Kalisher. Meno has a proper perspective on these issues, and is a Messianic Jew. From what I've seen and heard from him, I respect his position, and I would fellowship gladly with these people if I lived in Jerusalem.

So, the real issue is the Judaizer view, and the cultic, conspiracy theory mentality that Judaizers have...unfortunately, though, even for the healthier groups, I am guessing they deal with Judaizers on occasion.
 
Feb 1, 2014
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#34
in reality, what you, 'Sparkman, is doing, is trying to 'absolve yourself' from
your 'FALLING-AWAY'...

go to your Maker, The Giver and Taker of all we possess,..
I don't even know what you are saying. My maker is Jesus, and I haven't forsaken Him. I rejected Armstrongism, which is a false doctrine perpetuated by a wild eyed conspiracy theorist who may have committed incest with his teenaged daughter.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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#36
9. Note how John referred to the festivals as "feasts of the Jews" in his gospel.
This language suggests inapplicability to others (John 2:13, 5:1, 6:4, 7:2).
The Jews where keeping the Passover on the evening[start] of the 15th of Nisan.
But is this the correct day to observe the Passover?

The three Gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke show that on the night Jesus
Christ was betrayed, He and His disciples prepared and kept the Passover
(Matthew 26:18,Mark 14:12, 16; Luke 22:15)

The Jews, however, kept it 24 hours later (John 18:28).

Who kept the right day? could Jesus Christ have kept the Passover on the wrong day?
Jesus Christ indeed kept the right day and that it is the Jews who today keep Passover
on the wrong day.

Lets see what happened in the past- Back to the Beginning
The first passover was God sheading blood for Adams and Eves sins
-
Leviticus 23: “These are the feasts of the Lord, even holy convocations,
which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the Lord’s passover” (verses 4-5).
Notice first that this is God’s Passover—not the Jews’—and the day it is to be kept
is the 14th, not the 15th.

the days are to begin and end at even, or sunset (see Lev 23:32; Deut 16:6; Psalm 104:19).

the Passover begins at sunset, at the beginning of the 14th.
The Jewish community observes their Passover on the 15th beginning at sunset.

Leviticus 23:6 tells us that the first day of Unleavened Bread is on the 15th.
the Passover and the Days of Unleavened Bread are different and separate festivals.


Before covering the events of the Passover in the New Testament,
let’s first review the events as they occurred in the Old Testament.

-Between the Two Evenings

First of all, the Passover lamb was to be sacrificed “in the evening” (Exodus 12:6)
on the 14th day of the first month. “In the evening” is between sunset and dark.

Deuteronomy 16:6 confirms this when it says the lamb was sacrificed “at even,
at the going down of the sun.” “the time between sunset and deep twilight.”

Exodus 12:8 says the Israelites were to eat the Passover meal “in that night.” Which night?
The one mentioned in verse 6: the 14th. After that, God smote the firstborn “this night”
(verse 12). Not the next night—this night—the 14th!


That is why, in Numbers 28:16, it says, “And in the fourteenth day of the first month is
[the passover of the Lord]” (we see also Leviticus 23:5-6).

5In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is [the Lord's passover].
6And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread
unto the Lord: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.

Exodus 12:21-22 the Israelites were not to leave their houses until morning.
If they did, they would have died. This is why they were to burn their leftovers
the next morning (verse 10).the morning after the Passover is still the 14th
—the day portion of the 14th.

(verse 11)
11And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet,
and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is [the Lord's passover].
-
Deuteronomy 16:1 says they left Egypt “by night.” Their exodus from Egypt
then had to be that following night, or the night[start] of the 15th.

This was to be a “night to be much observed” (Exodus 12:42).
This is confirmed in Numbers 33:3: “And they departed … on the fifteenth day
of the first month; on the morrow AFTER the passover .…”

the spoiling of the Egyptians (Exodus 12:33-36). This could have only taken place on the
afternoon of the 14th, just hours before [the Israelites left Egypt the night of the 15th].

-
How did the Passover get its name originally? “For the Lord will pass through to smite
the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts,

the Lord will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your
houses to smite you. … That ye shall say, It is the sacrifice of the Lord’s passover, who
passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when he smote the Egyptians,
and delivered our houses. And the people bowed the head and worshipped” (Ex 12:23, 27

God passed over the houses that had the blood of the lamb on their doorpost.
God also passes over (forgives) our sins when we repent of them and come
under the shed blood of Jesus Christ our Passover, sacrificed for us.


Kept on the 14th Many Generations Later

When the Hebrew children would ask about this service years later, the parents were to
respond, “It is the sacrifice of the Lord’s Passover” (Exodus 12:27). this is God’s Passover,
and God said “the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the Lord’s passover” (Lev 23:5).

Many generations later, the Israelites were still keeping the Passover on the 14th.

They kept the Passover on the correct day when they were in the wilderness (Numbers 9:5).
When they entered into the Promised Land, they were still all in agreement (Joshua 5:10).
King Josiah kept the Passover on the 14th (2 Chronicles 35:1). We also read in Ezra’s time
they were still keeping it on the 14th (Ezra 6:19), and this was about 519 b.c.

-
But the New Testament Jews Keep it a Day Later
the Jews were not all keeping the same day as Jesus Christ did and commanded.

“And the Jews’ passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem” (John 2:13).
Here it is called “the Jews’ Passover”—not “the Lord’s Passover.”

The Jewish confusion most likely arose in the third century before Christ.
The Palestinian Jews were under Egyptian control from 301 to 198 b.c.

“While the Egyptians allowed the Jews to retain their ancient calendar, there was a
change made in the beginning of the day—it became common to begin the day at sunrise.
This custom was adopted, and persisted among the Jews even down to New Testament times

-
Christ Instructed Keeping Passover on 14th

Christ was killed in the afternoon[daytime] of the 14th. But Christ keep the Passover
the night portion of the 14th—that is, the night before the day Christ was crucified.

Insisting that because John mentions the Passover as occurring on the evening after
Christ’s sacrifice, that the Passover Christ kept the previous evening was just a Last Supper
or some kind of “love feast.” But Christ makes it very clear in Matthew, Mark and Luke
that the disciples were to prepare the Passover.

“Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed
to be crucified” (Matthew 26:2). Clarke’s Commentary states regarding this verse:

“This feast began on the fourteenth day of the first moon, in the first month, Nisan, and it
lasted only one day; but it was immediately followed by the days of unleavened bread, which
were seven, so that the whole lasted eight days, and all the eight days are sometimes called
the feast of the passover, and sometimes the feast or days of unleavened bread.”

these days were generally called the Passover or the feast of Unleavened Bread, meaning the
whole eight days, including the Passover and the Days of Unleavened Bread. Matthew says,
“after two days is the feast of the passover.” In Mark 14:1 it says, “After two days was the
feast of the passover, and of unleavened bread.” And in Luke 22:1 it says, “Now the feast of
unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.”

All three use slightly different terminologies, but the meaning is the same.

The same is true for John 19:14. On the day Christ was crucified, John wrote that the
“preparation of the passover” was at hand. It is true that this was just before Christ died
on the afternoon of the 14th; but in verse 31, John makes it clear what this preparation was for.

“The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon
the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their
legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.”

At sunset, after Christ died, the “high day,” or holy day (the first day of Unleavened Bread),
began. The Jews were preparing for their passover, not “the Lord’s” (Leviticus 23:5).

Matthew 26:17-18 read: “Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples
came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?
And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is
at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.”

The Greek word for “passover” in these two verses is pascha. Strong’s Concordance
defines this word as, “the Passover, the meal, the festival.” Any lexicon verifies this definition.

Verse 19 continues, “And the disciples did as Jesus had appointed them; and they made ready
the passover.” They made ready the Passover—same Greek word. If this event was only
referring to a final meal or last supper, certainly the word pascha would not have been inspired.


Notice Mark’s account: “And wheresoever he shall go in, say ye to the goodman of the house,
The Master saith, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?”
(Mark 14:14). Same Greek word—pascha. This same word is also used in Luke 22: 15
“And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer”

Let’s again notice Matthew 26:18: “And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him,
The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.”

Those who advocate a 15th-of-Nisan Passover and say this was just some kind of final dinner
are actually saying Jesus Christ did not know what He was talking about! Jesus said,
“I will keep the Passover … with my disciples.”

This makes it plain that when Jesus gathered with His disciples the night He was betrayed
by Judas, it was indeed the Passover!

-

The next morning, after the betrayal, the Jews brought Jesus before the Sanhedrin. (John 18:28)
“Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves
went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover”

This was before [the Jews’ passover]. The holy day was to start at sunset of that evening. Remember,
the Jews did not want to kill Him on a feast day for fear of what the people might do (Matthew 26:5).

They also wanted to be sure that the bodies didnot remain on the stake during the holy day (John 19:31
Then around 3 o’clock in the afternoon on the 14th, Christ died (Matthew 27:46; Mark 15:34).
The Passover meal and sacrifice all occurred on the 14th of Nisan.

we read that the Jews’ Passover was at hand, that is exactly what it was—the Jews’ Passover!
 
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Feb 1, 2014
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1 Corinthians 10:30 For if I by grace be a partaker,
why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?

I am A Begotten Son of God, I answer to no man, I explained my view.
We have discussed this issue, and I had asked you nice from the start,
To stop putting words in my mouth and repeating lies over and over, futile
Just a couple examples of this lack of memory sparkman has:

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ere-sabbath-day-christians-2.html#post2424113
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...mare-sabbath-torah-observers.html#post2428613
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...athkeeper-conspiracy-view-church-history.html



Then you go on and do just that, the same ole sparkeman, can not refute scrupture by
the book, so he attackes and slanders the person, and spreads lies to cover his trail,
to make him look like the good guy. just accussing and judging others to discreated.

This is what the 2nd reinstatement of the sparksman? back to judge us again and again.

From the very first day, when you dug up some 20 old Sabbath threads on forum.
Just to post the same message in each one, about the hatred for your former church.
And you declairing all Sabbath keepers are wonkey in there thinking.
Does anyone here remember that day of disruption? Two or more witnesses come forward?

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...servers-nightmare-rather-than-proof-text.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...reading-refute-easter-haters.html#post2455233
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...reading-refute-easter-haters.html#post2455242
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/129344-nimrod-3.html#post2435956
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/135709-dr-michael-brown-sabbath-debate.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...abbath-pants-keeper-thread-3.html#post2456641
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/126289-christmas-reconsidered-ralph-woodrow.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...reconsidered-ralph-woodrow-2.html#post2372782
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...servers-nightmare-rather-than-proof-text.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...tions-concerning-covenants-2.html#post2422265
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...e-avoiding-doctrinal-error-3.html#post2378507
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/128937-what-happens-dead-when-they-die-3.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/115992-why-do-cults-appeal-some-seekers.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/128720-there-sabbath-day-christians.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/128720-there-sabbath-day-christians-2.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...abbath-pants-keeper-thread-3.html#post2456641
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...servers-nightmare-rather-than-proof-text.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...althcare-facilities-do-elective-abortions.htm



Here is another bold lie directed at Someone who's last post was a month or two ago.

John has stated in plain english to sparkman, his views on the subject, and with
the bible to back it up, John would pull no punches, sparksman hated that.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/86325-seventh-day-adventism-10.html#post2592960
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/86325-seventh-day-adventism-10.html#post2599139
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/134268-when-actual-sabbath-7.html#post2590085
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/134268-when-actual-sabbath-7.html#post2580374


I believe you should be reported for your abusive language diricted at myself and others.
Are you denying that you believe the teachings of Herbert Armstrong?

Do you believe that you will be God in the resurrection, added to the God family as fully God? Don't you believe that non-Armstrongites are spiritually blinded, and you will rule over them in the Millennium as a God being?

See the links in the Armstrongite thread that I posted above if anyone doubts me on that. It records a history of our dialogue in that regard, where you post links to Armstrongite sites.

Additionally, you can feel free to ignore my threads if your feelings are so easily hurt. I will have no reason to address you if you don't participate on the threads.
 
Feb 28, 2016
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#38
Re: THE FOLLIES AND FALSE TEACHINGS OF JUDAIZERS LIKE HEBREW ROOT MOVEMENT/MESSIANIC

LUKE 6:45.
A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good;
and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil:
for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.
 
Feb 1, 2014
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#39
Regarding prove-all's assertion that I am lying about john832, here is a thread where he clearly states that non-observers aren't meeting the requirements for salvation if they aren't keeping the Sabbath:

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...y-such-hatred-seventh-day-17.html#post2068846


Here's a post where john832 talks about him and prove-all ruling over all us blinded individuals in the Millennium or Second Resurrection (they believe non-Armstrongites are spiritually blinded, and as God beings they will instruct us in, essentially, Armstrongism in this post-mortem salvation opportunity):

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/83970-sabbath-law-rest-18.html#post2150715


I used to be a follower of Herbert Armstrong and believed this Judaizing, crazy cult and its teachings. I was a young man then..22-32 years old.
 
Feb 1, 2014
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#40
LUKE 6:45.
A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good;
and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil:
for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.
I totally agree, and the teachings of Judaizers are basically accusations against Christianity..that Christians believe a false gospel, and that Christians are in sin for non-observance.

Remember that I carefully defined who qualifies as a Judaizer. Those individuals claim that keeping the Sabbath, festivals, and clean meat laws are conditions, requirements, or necessary fruits of salvation, or claim that non-observers are in sin. If you don't meet those qualifications, why are you offended? If prove-all doesn't meet those qualifications, why is he offended?

If you do meet those qualifications, come right out and say it plainly. Tell non-observers that you believe they don't meet the qualifications for salvation due to their non-observance, or tell them that they are in sin for their non-observance.