God hating you before you're born?

[PrynceNY]

[h=1]Ephesians 2English Standard Version (ESV)[/h][h=3]By Grace Through Faith[/h][FONT=&quot]2 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins Everyone outside of Christ is dead in trespasses and sins, and everyone is condemmned in Adam already, and sentenced to hell already, God doesn't do anyone wrong if they go to hell, they go to hell for their sin that comes from their sinful nature already, out of those people God sovereignely and mercifuly by His grace saves some out of those, that's the gospel.[/FONT]

Salvation through Christ is available for all, I forewarn you if you preach otherwise to others labeling it as "truth" you are subject to be judged

 

[ForthAngel]

If I put a million $ in a bank account for you, and you refuse to ever acknowledge that money is waiting for you to spend..... does that mean I didn't put it there for you? No, it means you just thumbed your nose at the financial loss I incurred for your benefit. I still lost the money. And it was done for you, not for me.

A dead man can't acknowledge the money is even there. Your analogy is invalid.

 

[notuptome]

If I put a million $ in a bank account for you, and you refuse to ever acknowledge that money is waiting for you to spend..... does that mean I didn't put it there for you? No, it means you just thumbed your nose at the financial loss I incurred for your benefit. I still lost the money. And it was done for you, not for me.

Please confirm the account and routing number for that account.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Depleted]

I am not saying that it is right or wrong, but you said He died for the world, globally...? And now it is personal? So which one is it

 

[Marano]

No,that is not the Gospel. The Gospel is "For God so loved the WORLD that He gave...that WHOSOEVER believes will have eternal life.

The great commission says "Go into ALL the WORLD and preach..."

Why would He command such a thing when the elect is already saved and the rest are bound for hell?

What do you do with the verse I just quoted them? And all the other verses that support the reformed position? You can't deny scripture, and yes everyone without Christ is condemmned to hell because of their sin, that's the gospel.

 

[Marano]

Salvation through Christ is available for all, I forewarn you if you preach otherwise to others labeling it as "truth" you are subject to be judged

No one said salvation wasn't to be proclaimed to everyone, because we don't know who the elect are, we proclaim salvation to all, but we know that not all will respond and those who die in their sin will be rightfuly judged by God and sentenced to hell, was salvation proclaimed to them? Absolutely, but they were never going to believe it.

 

[ForthAngel]

..........

 

[1ofthem]

This pretty much summarises it. You need to do something for salvation. But I would like to read all Romans indeed before reaching a conclusion.

John 3:16-17King James Version (KJV)

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

 

[Marano]

View attachment 169498
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This is what's absurd to me, when scripture says you were dead in your sins and trespasses, it really means dead, why can't people accept it I don't know, they wanna make it mean something else other than dead, but that's what scripture teaches, dead is dead.

 

[Depleted]

There are no verses in the Word that I do not like. They are for edification and reproof.What I do not like is people teaching something the Bible does not say. You have no answer for any of the verses I quoted,you dismiss them out of hand.It seems it is you who does not like certain verses of the Bible my friend.

Honestly? You remember John 3:16, just find, yet totally ignore what goes before it AND after it. The after it is where God says he "wrought" (if you're into KJV, "carried out" if you're into ESV.) And that is after Jesus tells what "the world" does to his love. THAT you deny!

 

[Depleted]

God doesn't hate people, but the Sin not the Sinner.

Sins aren't going to hell. People are.

 

[Iamlearning]

God must be domesticated in some fashion or another for some to then "believe" in Him, He must be reduced to a level of a god they feel comfortable with. Otherwise He cannot be God. Notice however there is no reduction in man's position, but an exaltation - that is what happened when God is reduced in this manner, it is unavoidable, God brought to man's level then exalts man.

But, you know, none of this really matters, they're all just having a "differing opinion". The likes of G7 and others is to attack those who stand for truth, and defend the wolves in the sheepfold.

In Open Theism, it has reduced God to a god who learns. Imagine that for a moment. I had one fellow tell me that Isaiah 1:18 is God asking us to come to Him so He can learn from us. Uh? LOL!!!

As far as the faith (the system of doctrines and teachings that are sound in doctrine) Jude 1:3 some "earnestly contend" for it, others "earnestly compromise" against it.

A God who learns!!!! Never heard of that ever... A God that knows nothing? Watching us as if it was a movie to see what happens? This is no God... sounds more like an unpleasant conspiracy theory UGH

 

[PennEd]

It doesn't sound like a kind of God that would relieve my anxiety... indeed

Peace to you sister. I know in your OP you honestly are seeking an answer to the Predestination vs. freewill choice question.

I have struggled with this many times, and the answer from the Lord is always the same "My Grace is sufficient for you".

God's ways are not our ways, and our mortal minds cannot grasp His ways. Scripture is conveying to us concepts that we must just trust God with.

Proverbs 3:5-6New King James Version (NKJV)

5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
And lean not on your own understanding;
6 In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He shall direct[a] your paths.

This question has caused much strife in the body not only on this site, but throughout history.
Preaching His Gospel, showing His Son shine out with love to others through us, and prayer is what we are called to do.

Dear Holy Father, let Your Peace reign in our hearts and minds. Let us remember that we are brothers and sisters in You, and that for all eternity we will be with each other and you. Use us for Your Glory and our good. In Jesus sweet Name I pray.

 

[Willie-T]

Is that what you believe? Jesus told Nicodemus that he must be born again. New birth in Christ occurs when?

Ro 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I assume you feel you are not "saved" until after the resurrection?

 

[notmyown]

Hi everyone! I am reading the Why does God hate Esau post and ForthAngel mentions this: I think it's interesting that many are saying it was because of something Esau did or because of the condition of his heart. Paul refutes this in Romans 9 and makes it clear that God hated him before he had done anything good or bad and before he was born.

I would like to understand this a little better...

I have read Romans 9 and it indeed says we all depend on God's mercy no matter what we do, if we are loved we are loved, if we are hardened by God, we are hardened. Does this means that if we are not chosen by God before birth all we can do is struggle in life like worms crawling on the floor, as He watches our struggles with indifference or contempt?

On the other hand, I was raised a Catholic and taught sins and evil deeds bring God's punishment. I am at a moment right now in which I feel a lot of self-loathe for some bad mistakes I made in my past, I confessed them but I still feel scruples, they haunt me a lot. But this stated in Romans 9 could mean that there was nothing I could do to escape this destiny and not commit these mistakes because if I am not chosen by God before birth my life won't be full of grace it will just be a heap of darkness and disgrace and full period.

I have to say this idea of being rejected by God already before birth and not being able to do or be anything to change this fact terrifies me a little bit.

Does God doom some of us to a life of disgrace because he hates us even before birth? Are some of our prayers unanswered because of that? What is the point of praying then, or going to church, if doing things won't make a difference in God's eyes? Is faith then an option or it doesn't matter whether you have faith or not?

What could you tell me about it? I am still learning. Thank you for your answers I truly appreciate your time, wisdom and guidance, may God bless you.

child ♥

if you are seeking the Lord, be assured it's because He sought you first.

if you have love for God, it's because He loved you first.

the rest you can come to learn in time, but to allay fear and worry, please know God is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Depleted]

I am afraid that they will because they will be forced to in the end of the world...

It's going to look beautiful though!

 

[kaylagrl]

What do you do with the verse I just quoted them? And all the other verses that support the reformed position? You can't deny scripture, and yes everyone without Christ is condemmned to hell because of their sin, that's the gospel.

Yes,everyone who does not believe on the Lord will be lost. Yes,they will go to hell because of their CHOICE. Not because God denied them the choice. That is where you are wrong. And the Bible does not support reformed theology,at least not this part.

 

[Willie-T]

A dead man can't acknowledge the money is even there. Your analogy is invalid.

No, ALL men are told the $ is there. Prideful (dead) men refuse to acknowledge someone would actually freely offer it to them.

For whom did the angel with "The Heavenly Host" tell the shepherds that the Savior born that night was for? Even Herod knew it and believed it was true. That is why he killed so many little children.

He wanted the $ he already was sure was in his own bank account, NOT the $ God offered.

 

[kaylagrl]

No one said salvation wasn't to be proclaimed to everyone, because we don't know who the elect are, we proclaim salvation to all, but we know that not all will respond and those who die in their sin will be rightfuly judged by God and sentenced to hell, was salvation proclaimed to them? Absolutely, but they were never going to believe it.

God knows who the elect are,according to you,in that He chose some to be saved and some to be lost.So if God knows this there is no purpose to evangelize! There was no reason for the Adam and Eve,the Bible,earth,nothing. Why would He bother with all of that. Just keep the righteous ones in heaven and leave it at that.There was not reason for people that are destined for hell to be created and have breath. Thats ridiculous! How cruel would God have to be to create people that had no choice but hell?! Its ridiculous!

 

[ForthAngel]

God knows who the elect are,according to you,in that He chose some to be saved and some to be lost.So if God knows this there is no purpose to evangelize! There was no reason for the Adam and Eve,the Bible,earth,nothing. Why would He bother with all of that. Just keep the righteous ones in heaven and leave it at that.There was not reason for people that are destined for hell to be created and have breath. Thats ridiculous! How cruel would God have to be to create people that had no choice but hell?! Its ridiculous!

Your argument is weak. God chose this way for his own purpose. You wanna call God cruel? Your own point of view should lead you to the same conclusion if that is how you think we see God. Ask yourself why he even made man with an inclination to sin. Do you believe God knew all things before he created everything? If you do, you have to concede that he knew billions were going to hell but created it anyway.

If that is too painful for you, then your next course of action is to say God didn't know until creation, then looked through the corridors of time to see who may or may not choose him and acted accordingly. If that doesn't work for you, how about full blown open theism.