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Not the problem. I'm not Marano, and I greatly suspect Marano is happy not to be me. Is that what MARANO believes, considering you charged HIM for being wrong, not me? So, again, show me where he ever said that. Because this is what is annoying me to no end.
You keep shoving words into other people's mouths, as if what they really said wasn't quite up to snuff enough to disagree with, so to go full-tilt you raise the bar so high it fits absolutely no one. And then you blame it on everyone who dares not to believe salvation comes through our choice.
You keep shoving words into other people's mouths, as if what they really said wasn't quite up to snuff enough to disagree with, so to go full-tilt you raise the bar so high it fits absolutely no one. And then you blame it on everyone who dares not to believe salvation comes through our choice.
"When God says, Turn ye unto me, and I will turn unto you, one of these clauses (that which invites our return to God) evidently belongs to our will; while the other, which promises His return to us, belongs to His grace.
Here, possibly, the Pelagians think they have a justification for their opinion which they so prominently advance, that God's grace is given according to our merits."
Now the persons who hold this opinion fail to observe that, unless our turning to God were itself God's gift, it would not be said to Him in prayer, Turn us again, O God of hosts; and, You, O God, wilt turn and quicken us; and again, Turn us, O God of our salvation, — with other passages of similar import, too numerous to mention here."
Augustine, On Grace and Free Will
Here, possibly, the Pelagians think they have a justification for their opinion which they so prominently advance, that God's grace is given according to our merits."
Now the persons who hold this opinion fail to observe that, unless our turning to God were itself God's gift, it would not be said to Him in prayer, Turn us again, O God of hosts; and, You, O God, wilt turn and quicken us; and again, Turn us, O God of our salvation, — with other passages of similar import, too numerous to mention here."
Augustine, On Grace and Free Will
Are you saved? Are you Abraham's descendent in faith terms? I believe you can say yes to both of those. The elect are God's chosen. The ones who call on him an believe in him. I was listening to some sermons on Romans 9. And I came to the conclusion that God hated Esau and loved Jacob to show that it's not who your blood line is or who is the oldest but because God chose Jacob. In the same way all of Israel will not be saved because though they may physically be Abraham's descendants they are not in their faith. Thus some of Israel is not truly Israel and some who are not Israel (gentiles) are truly part of Israel. That's what I believe God was trying to portray through these verses. Also I would like to mention that pharoah hardened his heart before God hardened it. I'm searching for the truth. I believe we have freewill. But God is all knowing and already knows the decisions we will make. I'm still not quite sure what I believe about this topic.
Election in Scripture is plain and everywhere and there is no such thing as one saved who is not and was not elect. Paul spoke plainly to the churches about their election, 1 Thessalonians 1:4 for example.
Remember brothers, it is not that they won't take a look at what we're saying, it is that they're rejecting what God's Word says. Time and again, simply giving them Scripture, they reject it and accuse of saying something not even asserted.
Remember brothers, it is not that they won't take a look at what we're saying, it is that they're rejecting what God's Word says. Time and again, simply giving them Scripture, they reject it and accuse of saying something not even asserted.
K
Im beginning to get upset with you Lynn.I asked for clarification. Do you believe some people are elected to be saved and others are not and are doomed to be lost? That is the question. Im not putting words in your mouth. Im sharing what the Bible says,if that bar is too high for you that is not my issue but yours. Now please clarify what you are saying and stop telling me nonsense like Im calling people a liar and putting words in people mouths. You are over reacting. Answer the question. Do you believe some people are elected and others are doomed.IF you do not believe this tell me what Im missing and stop yelling at me and bringing false accusations.
Hi kaylagrl!
All the elect pre-conversion were as the rest of mankind, Ephesians 2:3. Note in Ephesians 1 He already spoke to them about their being predestined and chosen to salvation before the foundation of the world.
Also, take a look at Paul's words in 2 Timothy 2:8-10 where the thing that motivated him to preach was because the elect are out there. He learned this personally in Acts 18 concerning Corinth. It's a beautiful and hope-filled truth, we are not preaching in vain, God has His elect out there that He will save in time.
All the elect pre-conversion were as the rest of mankind, Ephesians 2:3. Note in Ephesians 1 He already spoke to them about their being predestined and chosen to salvation before the foundation of the world.
Also, take a look at Paul's words in 2 Timothy 2:8-10 where the thing that motivated him to preach was because the elect are out there. He learned this personally in Acts 18 concerning Corinth. It's a beautiful and hope-filled truth, we are not preaching in vain, God has His elect out there that He will save in time.
2 Corinthians 5:19-20 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.
Behold the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world". John 1:29
[SUP]19 [/SUP] namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.
Behold the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world". John 1:29
Hi kaylagrl!
All the elect pre-conversion were as the rest of mankind, Ephesians 2:3. Note in Ephesians 1 He already spoke to them about their being predestined and chosen to salvation before the foundation of the world.
Also, take a look at Paul's words in 2 Timothy 2:8-10 where the thing that motivated him to preach was because the elect are out there. He learned this personally in Acts 18 concerning Corinth. It's a beautiful and hope-filled truth, we are not preaching in vain, God has His elect out there that He will save in time.
All the elect pre-conversion were as the rest of mankind, Ephesians 2:3. Note in Ephesians 1 He already spoke to them about their being predestined and chosen to salvation before the foundation of the world.
Also, take a look at Paul's words in 2 Timothy 2:8-10 where the thing that motivated him to preach was because the elect are out there. He learned this personally in Acts 18 concerning Corinth. It's a beautiful and hope-filled truth, we are not preaching in vain, God has His elect out there that He will save in time.