Not By Works

[Katy-follower]

John 10:27-30: "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one"

The bits in red really jump out, don't they. The fact that God is greater than all, so how can any man, as a created being, believe they are stronger than God, that they have the power to lose salvation, when it isn't even theirs to lose to begin with.


More confirmation that men have no power!!! (Last verse - "created thing")

Romans 8:31-39:

If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

As it is written: “For Your sake we are killed all day long; We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.” Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord"

 

[Katy-follower]

Harmonise this.

1 John 3v7
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

Chris, read over that again. He who practices righteousness IS (already) righteous. This is confirmation, not a condition.

Those who are born of God (saved) WILL practice righteousness (this is the evidence), not that one practices righteousness in order to be saved. You're getting them backwards.


Those who don't practice righteousness are those that aren't born of God...

V10-12: "In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous"

1 John 2:29: "If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him"

 

[FranC]

Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them

Good morning Dcon,
Did you just have a nervous breakdown?

I'm beginning to realize that maybe those that refuse to acknowledge that good works are NECESSARY might feel that they are incapable of them and so have grasped onto the New HyperGrace Christianity that says that WE must do NOTHING to keep our salvation BUT BELIEVE. Believe in the English sense, of course, since in the Greek sense, it would mean more than those persons could bear. They do love to go to the Greek all the time, BUT NEVER FOR THE WORD "BELIEVE". Funny.

It seems to me that those on my side of the fence, which is NON-OSAS are feeling very secure in their belief in Jesus, so much so that they are not afraid to say that God DEMANDS works.

It would be interesting to understand WHY you are so against declaring this.

Will there be any faith when Jesus returns?

Well, not in HIM. But plenty in these modern Teachers who are creating a New Christianity.
Cheap Grace, Easy Believism and Cake Taker Christians.

Who steal the cake, and do not leave ANY payment for it.

Please don't tell me Jesus already Paid. He paid so YOU could be a member of the Kingdom of God.

Are you a memeber?

 

[FranC]

Chris, read over that again. He who practices righteousness IS (already) righteous. This is confirmation, not a condition.

Those who are born of God (saved) WILL practice righteousness (this is the evidence), not that one practices righteousness in order to be saved. You're getting them backwards.


Those who don't practice righteousness are those that aren't born of God...

V10-12: "In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous"

1 John 2:29: "If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him"

YOU need to read it over again too.

He who PRACTICES...

present tense.

For all the Greek lovers out there that love tenses...

Ya gotta LOVE that PRESENT tense...

Oh yeah.

 

[FranC]

John 10:27-30: "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one"

The bits in red really jump out, don't they. The fact that God is greater than all, so how can any man, as a created being, believe they are stronger than God, that they have the power to lose salvation, when it isn't even theirs to lose to begin with.


More confirmation that men have no power!!! (Last verse - "created thing")

Romans 8:31-39:

If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

As it is written: “For Your sake we are killed all day long; We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.” Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord"

A true Calvinist to the bone.

Please explain how the Calvinist concept DID NOT EXIST before he and Luther cooked it up.

Please explain how NONE OF THE CHURCH FATHERS ever even thought of this demonic doctrine.

Please explain HOW an all loving God can create beings, predestine them to sin since they are not going to be saved by HIM, and THEN also send them to hell for eternity.

Nice god there that you serve.
Hope you're happy with Him.

 

[FranC]

E- How does the rest of God's promises in 2 Tim 2.11-13 fit into the one verse you quoted?

[SUP]11 [/SUP]It is a trustworthy statement:For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him;
[SUP]12 [/SUP]If we endure, we will also reign with Him;
If we deny Him, He also will deny us;
[SUP]13 [/SUP]If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

Vs 13 is not stand alone is it? There are other conditions in verse's 11-12, that explain Vs 13, right?

I read Vs 13 to mean that when we are faithless to God, God remains faithful to his covenant, because he will not deny what he says.

One cannot really just quote Vs 13 without verses 11-12 can they?



This the truth of eternal security.

I have know people who had true faith and then denied him and died denying him....If we seek to understand Verse 11 properly then God was faithful to his side of the covenant when they were faithless and he denied them, because they denied him because he will not deny what he says he will do and his word in Vs 11 makes it very clear...If we deny Him, He also will deny us.

This is falling away because of hurt and offense, backsliding, deception, etc.

You're right on verse 13, of course.

But the OSAS'ers refuse to see this.

It would seem, at first glance, that verse 12 and 13 conflict with each other.
But no matter to them, if it sounds good, just post it.

GOD REMAINS FAITHFUL TO HIMSELF. TO HIS COVENANT.

He promised to save people and accept them into the Kingdom. This will Always be TRUE because HE SAID IT.

But verse 12 says if WE DENY HIM, HE WILL DENY US.
HE will ONLY REMAIN FAITHFUL TO US, as long as we do NOT DENY HIM.


Pretty easy when you have your theology right.

 

[FranC]

Hey dcon are we playing that game "name that Bible verse"?

I think he's under condemnation and is trying to escape by the only way he knows...

 

[Katy-follower]

If that was descriptive, then there would be no need to take heed that anyone deceives them. Not so? It would not be possible to be deceived, since the impossibility of not doing righteously wouldn't exist.

So the words here betray your assertions above.

The book of 1 John is often referred to as the 1 John test, because it can be used to examine yourself and make sure you're truly in the faith. It offers confirmation and assurance to any believers who doubt.

Examples are given to confirm who is of God and who isn't. Cain and Abel are also mentioned.

You keep grasping at whatever scriptures you can find, to support your works based salvation, but you're so off base again.

 

[FranC]

sure....the two have become one....does not change the fact that particular letters were written to particular groups of people....your favorite go to book for pushing works is case in point...UNTO the 12 TRIBES scattered abroad....MAYBE you should step back and evaluate your theology....the book was written to JEWS who were CHRISTIAN...it seem your view, like PETEY falls short of being right

You mean to tell me that the NT was not written to me and i've been studying it all this time??????

What a waste!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[FranC]

Maybe you are ignorant of the fact that there are TWO (2) covenants.....ONE specifically for Israel and designed to lay GUILT before ALL.....and MAYBE your ignorant of the fact that the NEW COVENANT was ratified by the death of JESUS and NOW we are under GRACE and MERCY and the CONDEMNATION of the 1st COVENANT which you espouse and now PUSH has been alleviated and is NO LONGER applicable UNTO those who trust JESUS.......so....take your own advice and GO READ SLOWLY about the NEW COVENANT and the GRACE and MERCY that has come dia the SON JESUS CHRIST.......

Do you believe each new covenant negates the previous one, or do you believe each new covenant builds on the previous one?

 

[FranC]

80. Because of the “MUST” of 1 Corinthians 15:53.

1 Corinthians 15:23: “For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.”

81. Because the power of God is not limited.

Matthew 28:18-19: “And Jesus came and spake to them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.”

1 Peter 1:5: “Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.”

82. Because the saints are preserved forever.

Psalms 37:28: “For the Lord loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved forever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.”

83. Because nothing can separate us from the love of Christ.

Romans 8:35: “Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?”

The answer NO” is demanded by the passage to the question.

84. Because God will not forget the believer.

Isaiah 49:15: “Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet I will not forget thee.”

85. Because the new covenant in His blood, is an everlasting covenant.

Jeremiah 32:40: “And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.”

86. Because the believer has ceased from his own works.

Hebrews 4:10: “For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.” It is God that works in the believer.

87. Because we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:10: “By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”

88. Because the believer has already been redeemed (Past tense).

2 Peter 1:18-19: “Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.”

89. Because the believer’s salvation is begun and finished by Christ.

Hebrews 12:2: “Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.”

90. Because salvation is by grace, and not by any mixture of grace and works.

Romans 11:6: “And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.”

91. Because Christ died. rose again, and intercedes for born again believers.

Romans 8:37: “Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.”

Hebrews 7:25: “Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.”

92. Because God predestined believers in His Truth according to His foreknowledge before the foundation of the world to be conformed to the image of his Son, and then, in time, He calls and justifies us, and finally He will glorify us.

Romans 8:29-30: “For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.”

Ephesians 1:5, 7, 11, 13: "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will ... In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace ... In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: ... In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation ..."

2 Corinthians 2:13: "... God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth."

93. Because salvation IS salvation.

Hebrews 5:9: "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec."

Hebrews 7:25: "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them."

94. The believer cannot perish.

John 3:16: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

95. Because God’s promise that through the offering of Christ He will put away the believer’s sins, and will remember them no more.

Hebrews 10:17: “And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.”

96. Because God is for us!

Romans 8:31: "What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?"

97. God chastens His children rather than exiling them to Hell.

1 Corinthians 11:31-32: "For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world."

98. God allows His children to suffer loss of rewards in Heaven rather than exiling them to Hell.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15: "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

99. God allows His children to suffer shame at His coming rather than exiling them to Hell.

1 John 2:28: "And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming."

100. Because God is greater than our heart.

1 John 3:20: "For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things."

101. God is able to save and keep us.

2 Timothy 1:12: "... I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day."

Jude 1:24: "Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen."

PennEd

I'm writing this to remind you that I started going down the list last evening.
Most of what you have posted is in present tense and I agree with all of it.

As long as we are IN CHRIST at the time of our Death, we will be saved eternally.
As long as we did not forsake God and turn our backs on Him.

It's Always difficult for me to understand what persons believe since there is so much untruth making the rounds today.

Some are pure Calvinists.
Some are not accepting of all 5 points.
Some believe one is unable to return to the world.
Some believe that one CAN return to the world, but it means they were never saved to begin with.

I, otoh, am a traditional Christian. I believe what the Church has taught forever until Calvin came along, with some help from Luther.

We are saved by FAITH.
IF we have FAITH, we are saved.
IF we DO NOT have FAITH, we cannot be saved.

We cannot have it both ways. Either faith saves us or it doesn't.
Either we're IN THE KINGDOM, or we're out of it. Our choice. I believe we retain our free will after salvation.

Christianity cannot change with time. It must remain a constant or it is of no value.
Christianity cannot adhere to the world.
The World must adhere to Christianity.

It cannot change because our society changes.
God is the same Yesterday, today and forever.
Hebrews 13:8

 

[LoveGodForever]

PennEd

I'm writing this to remind you that I started going down the list last evening.
Most of what you have posted is in present tense and I agree with all of it.

As long as we are IN CHRIST at the time of our Death, we will be saved eternally.
As long as we did not forsake God and turn our backs on Him.

It's Always difficult for me to understand what persons believe since there is so much untruth making the rounds today.

Some are pure Calvinists.
Some are not accepting of all 5 points.
Some believe one is unable to return to the world.
Some believe that one CAN return to the world, but it means they were never saved to begin with.

I, otoh, am a traditional Christian. I believe what the Church has taught forever until Calvin came along, with some help from Luther.

We are saved by FAITH.
IF we have FAITH, we are saved.
IF we DO NOT have FAITH, we cannot be saved.

We cannot have it both ways. Either faith saves us or it doesn't.
Either we're IN THE KINGDOM, or we're out of it. Our choice. I believe we retain our free will after salvation.

Christianity cannot change with time. It must remain a constant or it is of no value.
Christianity cannot adhere to the world.
The World must adhere to Christianity.

It cannot change because our society changes.
God is the same Yesterday, today and forever.
Hebrews 13:8

Great Post FranC puts everything into context it is about walking by Faith and following God now. I am very puzzled why others cannot see this. Anyhow if anyone does fall into temptation and commits known sin, how wonderful is our God... we can always return to Him (if its not too late)

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keeps his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that saith he abides in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. (1John 2:1-6)

God bless you

 

[FranC]

The book of 1 John is often referred to as the 1 John test, because it can be used to examine yourself and make sure you're truly in the faith. It offers confirmation and assurance to any believers who doubt.

Examples are given to confirm who is of God and who isn't. Cain and Abel are also mentioned.

You keep grasping at whatever scriptures you can find, to support your works based salvation, but you're so off base again.

Now we need the 1 John test?

I need to make sure I'm TRULY in the faith?
What does this mean?
You mean trusting Jesus is not enough for your side of the isle?

You mean having faith is not enough? What is TRUE FAITH?
I thought the word FAITH had a specific meaning. It has changed with the times?

Your side is full of doubt, for some reason.
Those on my side of the isle don't need confirmation and Assurance all the time.
We're trusting in Jesus, HE is our confirmation and Assurance.

What's yours?

We need a test to see who is of God and who isn't?
If you're IN THE KINGDOM, you're of God.

If you're NOT IN THE KINGDOM, you're not of God.

Jesus came to preach the Kingdom. Are you in it or not?
John 3:3,5

Chris is NOT off base.
He's spot on and you should pay heed to what he says.
After all, what he says is in line with the Chistianity of the last 2,000 years.
(before all the modern changes came along. Do you think Jesus became "modern" at some point?)

 

[Zmouth]

John 10:27-30: "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one"

Have you heard his voice? That is why you think you have eternal life cause you read it in a book but did you ever read the passage, man doth not live by bread alone but by every word that proceedeth from the mouth of the LORD doth man live?

Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.John 5:39

 

[Katy-follower]

NO. I agree with what my bible tells me and it does not teach me eternal security.

So then how do you get around that word "eternal"? Or do you redefine it to actually mean conditional?

Scripture disagrees with you. "And I give them eternal life" not "I give them conditional life"

Is Jesus' blood not sufficient to save a person completely of their sins?

Just some examples of eternal. Too many to post on here, but others have already shared some....



John 17:3: "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent"

Matthew 25:46: "....And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous (saved) into eternal life"

John 3:16: "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

John 10:28: "...And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand"

 

[Zmouth]

A true Calvinist to the bone.

Please explain how the Calvinist concept DID NOT EXIST before he and Luther cooked it up.

Please explain how NONE OF THE CHURCH FATHERS ever even thought of this demonic doctrine.

Please explain HOW an all loving God can create beings, predestine them to sin since they are not going to be saved by HIM, and THEN also send them to hell for eternity.

Nice god there that you serve.
Hope you're happy with Him.

What? do you think the Sun runs on love?

 

[Zmouth]

John 10:28: "...And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand"

And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life. Job 2:6

 

[FranC]

So then how do you get around that word "eternal"? Or do you redefine it to actually mean conditional?

Scripture disagrees with you. "And I give them eternal life" not "I give them conditional life"

Is Jesus' blood not sufficient to save a person completely of their sins?

Just some examples of eternal. Too many to post on here, but others have already shared some....



John 17:3: "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent"

Matthew 25:46: "....And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous (saved) into eternal life"

John 3:16: "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

John 10:28: "...And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand"

I like your signature line. You should pay attention to it.

Eternal means Eternal. The problem is: How is something made eternal?


John 17:3

IF someone knows God and the One whom He sent to make Himself be known by us, THEN YES, we have eternal life.
Eternal, zoe life is IN CHRIST. OUT OF CHRIST there is no eternal life.
Jesus glorified the Father by doing all the works He was supposed to do.
Do WE have any works WE'RE supposed to do?
John 17:4

Now everyone has come to know that everything the Father gave to Jesus was from the Father.
WHAT did the Father give to Jesus? The words of salvation, the knowlege of the Kingdom of God.
If we KNOW this, then we are to be members of that Kingdom and follow what Jesus taught.
John 17:7-8

Jesus is asking God to guard the "ones the Father has given Him" because Jesus is going to leave them in the world.
John 17:11-12, 15

What exactly is it that God's people must be protected from if not the evil one, which is clearly stated.
And if they need protecting, it means there is danger --- danger of falling back into the world.

Have you read John chapters 14 and 15?
THESE GIVE THE CONDITIONS TO OBTAIN ETERNAL LIFE.
The conditions YOU say do not exist.

John 14:15
"If you love me, you will keep my commandments".
NASB

John 14:21
"He who has My commandments and KEEPS THEM, he it is who loves Me..".
NASB


John 14:24
"he who does not love me does not keep My words..."
NASB
(Jesus even says the words are not HIS, but GOD'S)


John 14:26
"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will TEACH YOU ALL THINGS, and bring to your remembrance ALL THAT I SAID TO YOU."
NASB

What is there to learn if all I need is belief in Jesus?
What will the Holy Spirit help us to remember if all I need is belief in Jesus?


John 15:5-6
"I am the vine, you are the branches, he who ABIDES IN ME, and I IN HIM, he bears much fruit; for apart from me you can do nohting."
"If anyone DOES NOT ABIDE in Me, he is THROWN AWAY as a branch and DRIES UP and they gather them and cast them into the fire and they are burned."

IF you DO NOT ABIDE in Him, you are cast up and burned.



John 15:14
"You are My friends, IF YOU DO WHAT I COMMAND YOU."
NASB


Seems simple enough to me.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


Mathew 25:46

A great scripture you picked.
WHO will go away into eternal punishment?

Read Mathew 25:31-45 also.

Those who DO NOT DO HIS WILL will go into eternal punishment.
Those who DO NOT DO what Jesus COMMANDED us to do:
Feed the hungry
clothe the poor
Visit the sick, etc.

THESE ARE WORKS WHICH MUST BE DONE TO BE A MEMBER OF THE KINGDOM.


VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

John 3:16

Easy. Notice the present tense of BELIEVE.


vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

John 10:28

Are you his sheep?
No one can snatch you out of His hand.
What person could convince you to?

But can you not leave of your own free will?
NO! Because you DO NOT BELIEVE in free will.

If you DON'T HAVE FREE WILL
how could God possibly make you responsible for your sins and send you to hell????
FOR ETERNITY.

Yes. A very loving god you're serving.
Hope you're happy with him.

 

[gb9]

I like your signature line. You should pay attention to it.

Eternal means Eternal. The problem is: How is something made eternal?


John 17:3

IF someone knows God and the One whom He sent to make Himself be known by us, THEN YES, we have eternal life.
Eternal, zoe life is IN CHRIST. OUT OF CHRIST there is no eternal life.
Jesus glorified the Father by doing all the works He was supposed to do.
Do WE have any works WE'RE supposed to do?
John 17:4

Now everyone has come to know that everything the Father gave to Jesus was from the Father.
WHAT did the Father give to Jesus? The words of salvation, the knowlege of the Kingdom of God.
If we KNOW this, then we are to be members of that Kingdom and follow what Jesus taught.
John 17:7-8

Jesus is asking God to guard the "ones the Father has given Him" because Jesus is going to leave them in the world.
John 17:11-12, 15

What exactly is it that God's people must be protected from if not the evil one, which is clearly stated.
And if they need protecting, it means there is danger --- danger of falling back into the world.

Have you read John chapters 14 and 15?
THESE GIVE THE CONDITIONS TO OBTAIN ETERNAL LIFE.
The conditions YOU say do not exist.

John 14:15
"If you love me, you will keep my commandments".
NASB

John 14:21
"He who has My commandments and KEEPS THEM, he it is who loves Me..".
NASB


John 14:24
"he who does not love me does not keep My words..."
NASB
(Jesus even says the words are not HIS, but GOD'S)


John 14:26
"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will TEACH YOU ALL THINGS, and bring to your remembrance ALL THAT I SAID TO YOU."
NASB

What is there to learn if all I need is belief in Jesus?
What will the Holy Spirit help us to remember if all I need is belief in Jesus?


John 15:5-6
"I am the vine, you are the branches, he who ABIDES IN ME, and I IN HIM, he bears much fruit; for apart from me you can do nohting."
"If anyone DOES NOT ABIDE in Me, he is THROWN AWAY as a branch and DRIES UP and they gather them and cast them into the fire and they are burned."

IF you DO NOT ABIDE in Him, you are cast up and burned.



John 15:14
"You are My friends, IF YOU DO WHAT I COMMAND YOU."
NASB


Seems simple enough to me.

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Mathew 25:46

A great scripture you picked.
WHO will go away into eternal punishment?

Read Mathew 25:31-45 also.

Those who DO NOT DO HIS WILL will go into eternal punishment.
Those who DO NOT DO what Jesus COMMANDED us to do:
Feed the hungry
clothe the poor
Visit the sick, etc.

THESE ARE WORKS WHICH MUST BE DONE TO BE A MEMBER OF THE KINGDOM.


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John 3:16

Easy. Notice the present tense of BELIEVE.


vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

John 10:28

Are you his sheep?
No one can snatch you out of His hand.
What person could convince you to?

But can you not leave of your own free will?
NO! Because you DO NOT BELIEVE in free will.

If you DON'T HAVE FREE WILL
how could God possibly make you responsible for your sins and send you to hell????
FOR ETERNITY.

Yes. A very loving god you're serving.
Hope you're happy with him.

a question, which you probably won't answer, but whatever. Does Jesus save us, or does he give us an opportunity to get saved, but it is up to us to take advantage of it?

 

[mailmandan]

“Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.” (Luke 8:11). Looking at the following verse it is very clear that there is a class that according to Jesus received the word of God with Joy and for a while believed but when temptation came they fall away into sin…..

“They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.” (Luke 8:13)

Luke 8:13 - But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. The shallow ground hearer is contrasted with that of the "good ground" hearer, who's heart was "good" and "honest." Thus, his heart was "not good," being like the soil to which it corresponds, being "shallow" or "rocky," lacking sufficient depth.

IN CONTRAST, we read in Matthew 13:23 - "And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who INDEED BEARS FRUIT and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty."

People who hear and receive the word with joy (emotional response) and believe (in a shallow way) without a good and honest heart, and having "no root" do not experience real salvation. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root.." *Problem from the start. *Temporary shallow belief that was not firmly rooted or established from the start "has no root" represents rocky soil. *Then we see the results of this. Temporary shallow belief that has no root, lacks moisture, produces no fruit and withers away is not saving belief.

John has portrayed people as "believing" who are clearly not saved. *There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of genuine, firmly established belief which results in salvation." As we see in John 2:23-25, where many people saw the signs that Jesus was performing and were said to have "believed in His name," yet Jesus would not entrust Himself to them, for He knew what was in each person, demonstrating that their belief was superficial in nature.

Also in John 8:31, where the Jews who were said to have "believed in Him" turn out to be slaves to sin (verse 34); indifferent to Jesus' words (verse 37); children of the devil (verse 44); liars (verse 55); and guilty of setting out to stone the one they had professed to believe in (verse 59).

After Jesus’ teaching in John 6:48-59, we read in verse 60 that many of his disciples said, "this is a hard teaching, who can accept?" These are the very same so called "disciples" who Jesus says "do not believe" (John 6:64). *They also walked with Him no more. *They did not continue. *If we continue in His word, then we demonstrate that we are TRULY His disciples (John 8:31). *Those who fail to continue in His word demonstrate that they are NOT TRULY His disciples.