The Rapture

[RickyZ]

The only thing I've learned for sure here at CC is that none of us know anything for sure. And when people start thinking they have a 100% lock on the truth, to where they start calling other believers dishonest and liars and deceivers, it sends up a HUGE red flag in my mind. Because anyone who believes they are 100% right, has a mind closed to the truth. Because truth is only available to those who are willing to question what they think they know.

Google monitors what news stories one reads - and then they send you only news stories that confirm what you believe. They won't feed you opposing viewpoints, and thus you get ever more polarized in your beliefs. And you end up with two (or more) polarized people patting each other on the back for finding the 'truth' and calling every other opinion a lie.

So 49.5% of the people believe the tribulation et al were past. 49.5% believe it's future. Each side calls the other side a liar.

Boy do I want to be a fly on the wall of the Throne room when those who called others a liar (doesn't matter what side they fell on) find out that they were wrong.

 

[RickyZ]

Btw, I want to thank those who wished me safe travels. Not only was the travel incident free, but God blessed the last part of it with an incredible light show!

Guess that means God thinks I'm right

 

[KJV1611]

The only thing I've learned for sure here at CC is that none of us know anything for sure. And when people start thinking they have a 100% lock on the truth, to where they start calling other believers dishonest and liars and deceivers, it sends up a HUGE red flag in my mind. Because anyone who believes they are 100% right, has a mind closed to the truth. Because truth is only available to those who are willing to question what they think they know.

Google monitors what news stories one reads - and then they send you only news stories that confirm what you believe. They won't feed you opposing viewpoints, and thus you get ever more polarized in your beliefs. And you end up with two (or more) polarized people patting each other on the back for finding the 'truth' and calling every other opinion a lie.

So 49.5% of the people believe the tribulation et al were past. 49.5% believe it's future. Each side calls the other side a liar.

Boy do I want to be a fly on the wall of the Throne room when those who called others a liar (doesn't matter what side they fell on) find out that they were wrong.

I don't think anybody here has said they're 100% lock on the truth have they? The problem comes when people take bible verses intended for group and apply them to another group.

 

[J7]

Btw, I want to thank those who wished me safe travels. Not only was the travel incident free, but God blessed the last part of it with an incredible light show!

Guess that means God thinks I'm right

Ah, that must have been the 2nd coming...have you been raptured?

 

[RickyZ]

I think it's been pretty strongly implied by many, especially by using the term 'caught in a lie' and questioning people's honesty (maybe you should go back and re-read some of the things you and others (including VCO) have said). I don't think anyone here (other than the obvious trolls) says anything with the overt intent of lying.


But I will give you credit for stepping up and saying you are wrong on occasion. At least you show a little flexibility Kudos for that bro.

I think the real truth is that none of us can truly wrap our finite minds around the infinite enormity of God's word. I think the best any of us can do is acknowledge that what we understand may not be the full truth, cut a little slack for those who think differently, and wait for that aha moment of certainty we will all have when we are caught up to be with Him.

And as far as the end times/rapture goes, I think the best answer is to pray that it's past, but prepare for it to be future.

Hokay, I'll get off my soapbox now

 

[RickyZ]

Ah, that must have been the 2nd coming...have you been raptured?

I would say it's more enraptured

 

[Issachar92]

Just a heads up: ISRAEL IS BACK yall! The temple is right around the corner as well, which means WE GONNA BE OUTTA HERE.

All of you doubters and naysayers check out the temple institute webpage AND check this out:

https://www.breakingisraelnews.com/...king-temple-mount-photos/#39Dh2ILeIRsRFrEq.97

 

[KJV1611]

Just a heads up: ISRAEL IS BACK yall! The temple is right around the corner as well, which means WE GONNA BE OUTTA HERE.

All of you doubters and naysayers check out the temple institute webpage AND check this out:

https://www.breakingisraelnews.com/...king-temple-mount-photos/#39Dh2ILeIRsRFrEq.97

What does Israel being back in the land have to do with the rapture? Where is this prophecy in the bible?

 

[iamsoandso]

LOOK AGAIN, the days that are shortened are the Great Tribulation.

ACTUALLY the TRIAL, the FLOGGING, and the Death of JESUS HAPPENED at the Being of the GAP; and that GAP is still going on. It is known as the Church Age, or the Times of the Gentiles:



Daniel 9:26-27 (HCSB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]After those 62 weeks the Messiah will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the coming prince will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come with a flood, and until the end there will be war;desolations are decreed.{<- ALL OF THAT HAPPENS BETWEEN THE 69TH & 70TH WEEK.}
[SUP]27 [/SUP]{HERE IS THE START OF THE 70TH WEEK ->} He will make a firm covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and offering. And the abomination of desolation will be on a wing of the temple until the decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator.”

Luke 21:22-24 (HCSB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] because these are days of vengeance to fulfill all the things that are written.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Woe to pregnant women and nursing mothers in those days, for there will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations, and Jerusalem will be trampled by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
{ ALL OF THAT HAPPENS BETWEEN THE 69TH & 70TH WEEK.}

lol, I was wondering if Issachar92 was referring to this in post #3498,page 175 and if any of the others had noticed it also.

Adar 2 is a 30 day month in the Hebrew calender added every two or three years to so that the grain offering is not under ripe. Why is that they could not offer this offering if it was not yet ripe(first fruit) nor if it had blemish(over ripe). All of those who were going to return to the feast the next year had to know whether or not this month was added or taken away while they were there or they would return the next year a month too soon or a month too late so the priest examined the grain and made the decision to add Adar2 or to remove it(shorten the times).

In Daniel 12:11-12 the days are 1290=1260/3 1/2 Hebrew years with Adar2(30 day month) added. And then 1335 days are mentioned which is three and a half regular years+adar2+15 days into the next year which is the feast of tabernacles (15th day).

This is from Thomas ice who you will recognise https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/ice_thomas/Mat24-25/Mat24-25_Part17.cfm who I think does a good job of noting that the 1260 days(3 1/2 years) are not shortened in anything after Jesus made the statement of shortening those days so the shortening is prior to this. In the article is an mistake(error in typing) in the section (who are the elect) he gives Matthew 14 instead of Matthew 24 in his quote(were all human,lol).

I am outside the camps as I say and just following along to see how any of you see these matters(and mean no offence to anyone) and was wondering if any had spotted this from his statement about the days being shortened. I try to be open minded and am well aware that there are two camps so to speak past/future and find it fascinating that the same debate extends all the way back to the second century Church. This many years later it seems to have become again an debate (after the printing press and the protestant movement) where before that very few even could read let alone own a bible and so were left to what was told to us by priest. But now in our days we do have bibles and so as we read several different opinions formed after the bible was printed and given to the world(I think for a reason). Any way I take no offence in what you say and hope you take me as not offensive in opinion.

 

[VCO]

So let me see if I have this Dispie story right.

The Antichrist comes in just prior to the 70th week and destroys the city and the temple.

Then after he destroys Jerusalem and the temple he signs a 7 year peace treaty with the Jews.

Then I suppose he rebuilds the temple before 3 1/2 years expire so he can abominate the temple.

Is this the Dispie story line?

YOUR PROBLEM is you do not LISTEN, you just Continuously try in vain to make our statements fit your erroneous presuppositions.

 

[KJV1611]

YOUR PROBLEM is you do not LISTEN, you just Continuously try in vain to make our statements fit your erroneous presuppositions.

I'm more than willing to listen and to be corrected. Correct me, show me where I'm wrong. Answer the question I asked Isaachar, how is Israel coming back into the land a sign of fulfilled prohecy. Don't go posting a ton of out of context verses that are about spiritual Israel and heavenly Jerusalem.

 

[iamsoandso]

I'm more than willing to listen and to be corrected. Correct me, show me where I'm wrong. Answer the question I asked Isaachar, how is Israel coming back into the land a sign of fulfilled prohecy. Don't go posting a ton of out of context verses that are about spiritual Israel and heavenly Jerusalem.

Let me ask you something, in Revelation 5:9 our Lord was found worthy to open the seals of the sealed book because he "was slain" so then back track to Matthew 24,mark 13,and Luke 21 (which is before he was slain) and tell me do you think he revealed anything in those chapters that are contained in the Revelation,or are they in addition to what he said in the Olivet discourse ?

 

[VCO]

lol, I was wondering if Issachar92 was referring to this in post #3498,page 175 and if any of the others had noticed it also.

Adar 2 is a 30 day month in the Hebrew calender added every two or three years to so that the grain offering is not under ripe. Why is that they could not offer this offering if it was not yet ripe(first fruit) nor if it had blemish(over ripe). All of those who were going to return to the feast the next year had to know whether or not this month was added or taken away while they were there or they would return the next year a month too soon or a month too late so the priest examined the grain and made the decision to add Adar2 or to remove it(shorten the times).

In Daniel 12:11-12 the days are 1290=1260/3 1/2 Hebrew years with Adar2(30 day month) added. And then 1335 days are mentioned which is three and a half regular years+adar2+15 days into the next year which is the feast of tabernacles (15th day).

This is from Thomas ice who you will recognise https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/ice_thomas/Mat24-25/Mat24-25_Part17.cfm who I think does a good job of noting that the 1260 days(3 1/2 years) are not shortened in anything after Jesus made the statement of shortening those days so the shortening is prior to this. In the article is an mistake(error in typing) in the section (who are the elect) he gives Matthew 14 instead of Matthew 24 in his quote(were all human,lol).

I am outside the camps as I say and just following along to see how any of you see these matters(and mean no offence to anyone) and was wondering if any had spotted this from his statement about the days being shortened. I try to be open minded and am well aware that there are two camps so to speak past/future and find it fascinating that the same debate extends all the way back to the second century Church. This many years later it seems to have become again an debate (after the printing press and the protestant movement) where before that very few even could read let alone own a bible and so were left to what was told to us by priest. But now in our days we do have bibles and so as we read several different opinions formed after the bible was printed and given to the world(I think for a reason). Any way I take no offence in what you say and hope you take me as not offensive in opinion.

Here is more information on that LEAP MONTH, for those who never heard of it:

Adar II is the thirteenth month of the Jewish calendar. Seven of the nineteen years in the cycle of the Jewish calendar are leap years. In those years we add an extra Adar before the regular Adar. We call this extra month Adar I, and the regular Adar becomes Adar II.



Adar II comes at the same time as the secular months March/April. "It's early in the spring. The brown trees of winter have put on gleaming costumes of bright green .... People act a little crazy – shedding heavy clothes while there is still a chill in the air, laughing a little wildly when there is no reason ...."[SUP]1[/SUP] We've gotten giddy; we've caught spring fever.

https://ritualwell.org/ritual/essence-adar-ii

My understanding is that shortening of the days is purely a reference of limiting that TRIBULATION TIME, to the same Number of Days as the Seven Year so-called Peace Treaty Covenant with ISRAEL, because to let it go on even a few months longer, would insure that there were NO SURVIVORS ON THE ENTIRE PLANET, especially because of the Final plague Our Lord looses on the enemies attacking Jerusalem.



Mark 13:19-20 (CSBBible)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For those will be days of tribulation, the kind that hasn't been from the beginning of creation until now and never will be again.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] If the Lord had not cut those days short, no one would be saved. But he cut those days short for the sake of the elect {144,000 }, whom he chose.

Zechariah 14:12-13 (CSBBible)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]This will be the plague with which the LORD strikes all the people who have warred against Jerusalem: their flesh will rot while they stand on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] On that day a great panic from the LORD will be among them, so that each will seize the hand of another, and the hand of one will rise against the other.

 

[VCO]

I'm more than willing to listen and to be corrected. Correct me, show me where I'm wrong. Answer the question I asked Isaachar, how is Israel coming back into the land a sign of fulfilled prohecy. Don't go posting a ton of out of context verses that are about spiritual Israel and heavenly Jerusalem.

I already did, and you turned a blind eye because of your presuppositions and rejected it. You are on you own now. And thus I will kick the dust from my feet and go on to share what I have learned with others.

 

[KJV1611]

Let me ask you something, in Revelation 5:9 our Lord was found worthy to open the seals of the sealed book because he "was slain" so then back track to Matthew 24,mark 13,and Luke 21 (which is before he was slain) and tell me do you think he revealed anything in those chapters that are contained in the Revelation,or are they in addition to what he said in the Olivet discourse ?

The law and the prophets were until John, there are no new prophecies in the new testament. The new testament is the little book that Jesus gave to John after the 7th seal was opened... you got it, he gave him the new testament. All the books in the new testament unlock the book that was sealed with 7 seals - the old testament. There was nothing new in the olivet discourse nor in the book of Revelation, those books along with Acts, Hebrews, Romans and all the other new testament books UNSEAL the prophecies hidden in the formerly sealed old testament.

 

[iamsoandso]

The law and the prophets were until John, there are no new prophecies in the new testament. The new testament is the little book that Jesus gave to John after the 7th seal was opened... you got it, he gave him the new testament. All the books in the new testament unlock the book that was sealed with 7 seals - the old testament. There was nothing new in the olivet discourse nor in the book of Revelation, those books along with Acts, Hebrews, Romans and all the other new testament books UNSEAL the prophecies hidden in the formerly sealed old testament.

lol, but stop and think about Acts 2 and the prophet Joel if prophecies cease(1 Corinthians 13;8) and it is written that in the new covenant it is said that they would prophecy and you have accounted for all the prophecies in the letters and gospels and the Revelation do you not see that you are now without any "New covenant prophecies"? Why did they cease?

 

[KJV1611]

lol, but stop and think about Acts 2 and the prophet Joel if prophecies cease(1 Corinthians 13;8) and it is written that in the new covenant it is said that they would prophecy and you have accounted for all the prophecies in the letters and gospels and the Revelation do you not see that you are now without any "New covenant prophecies"? Why did they cease?

Do you know the difference between propheCy and propheSy?

 

[iamsoandso]

don’t avoid the question I'm asking you in that you account for all of the Gospels and epistles and the Revelation as an fulfilment of "old testament prophecies" and forget to account for anything new ,again why did they cease?

 

[KJV1611]

lol, but stop and think about Acts 2 and the prophet Joel if prophecies cease(1 Corinthians 13;8) and it is written that in the new covenant it is said that they would prophecy and you have accounted for all the prophecies in the letters and gospels and the Revelation do you not see that you are now without any "New covenant prophecies"? Why did they cease?

I think you totally misuderstood me. I didn't say prophecies would not be fulfilled, I said there would be no NEW prophets.... the LAW and the PROPHETS were until John. You can't have a new propheCy unless there is a prophet to propheSy.

 

[iamsoandso]

I think you totally misuderstood me. I didn't say prophecies would not be fulfilled, I said there would be no NEW prophets.... the LAW and the PROPHETS were until John. You can't have a new propheCy unless there is a prophet to propheSy.

Again Acts 2:18 did these cease as Paul said or if not say what they are.