Where does Jesus Speak about the Millennium?

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Locutus

Locutus

Senior Member
#121
Feb 10, 2017
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#121
dcontroversal said:
My problem with embracing the above black bolded.....the words which follow...

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

In Gods eyes and perspective.....2000 years more than qualifies as shortly.....as a matter of fact it can be 2 days, 6 hours or as but yesterday....
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When God communicates with man time is literal, not 2 days, 6, hours or a thousand years as a day. This is your first problem.

If time statements can be up for grabs, then any idea can be used to fill in the "gaps" which is precisely what dispensationalists do.

Peter stated he was living in the last days:

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Read the rest of his statements.

Last days do not "last" 1970 years and counting - John said he was living in the last hour as the last days turned into the last hour:

1 John 2:18 Children, it is the last hour...........

I didn't quote the rest of John because I know dispensationalists are easily confused.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#122
Dec 12, 2013
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#122
Locutus said:
When God communicates with man time is literal, not 2 days, 6, hours or a thousand years as a day. This is your first problem.

If time statements can be up for grabs, then any idea can be used to fill in the "gaps" which is precisely what dispensationalists do.

Peter stated he was living in the last days:

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Read the rest of his statements.

Last days do not "last" 1970 years and counting - John said he was living in the last hour as the last days turned into the last hour:

1 John 2:18 Children, it is the last hour...........

I didn't quote the rest of John because I know dispensationalists are easily confused.
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No....actually we should view things the way GOD views things and regardless.......your post proves my point.....albeit in your infinite wisdom you will reject it.....
 
Locutus

Locutus

Senior Member
#123
Feb 10, 2017
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#123
GaryA said:
By any chance is there something that is only stated in Acts that you are unwilling to accept because there is no mention of it in Paul's letters?
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Nothing in Acts, Paul's, Peters, James or John's letters that I do not accept.
 
Locutus

Locutus

Senior Member
#124
Feb 10, 2017
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#124
dcontroversal said:
No....actually we should view things the way GOD views things and regardless.......your post proves my point.....albeit in your infinite wisdom you will reject it.....
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Of course I reject it as what you are claiming makes no sense.

In your mind God says to a prophet "the time is at hand", but that could be the time is at hand anytime soon, sooner or later, or even later than that. So in fact we have no idea what God meant at all.

You've just defined the meaning of meaningless.

.....
 
G

GaryA

Guest
#125
#125
oldhermit said:
2 Pet 3:8 has nothing to do with God's manipulation of time nor is it intended to be a standard of measurement by which God measures a day. God created time and he knows the difference between a 24 hour day and a 1000 years. All this passage is demonstrating is the fact that God is not contingent upon time.
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There is certainly truth in that statement, but...


shrume said:
I used to think that. Now I think there could be more to it.
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Yes - there is more to it...
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#126
Dec 12, 2013
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#126
Locutus said:
Of course I reject it as what you are claiming makes no sense.

In your mind God says to a prophet "the time is at hand", but that could be the time is at hand anytime soon, sooner or later, or even later than that. So in fact we have no idea what God meant at all.

You've just defined the meaning of meaningless.

.....
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Not hardly....and you miss the point for failure to open your eyes.....your first premise was in error....God communicated unto men three things about 1000 years.....

He said it can be as a day, as a watch in the night and as but yesterday and this goes right to the point about shortly....when JESUS testifies unto his servants concerning things which SHORTLY must come to pass it is from HIS perspective.....in our eyes the last 2000 years of history seems a long time....in God's eyes it is a SHORT period of time....and even the second post you made proves my point about time....JOHN said we are in the LAST DAYS......it was written UNTO 7 churches NOT JERUSALEM, IT was written some 20 years after the fall of JERUSALEM and scattering of the JEWS and to equate it to ISRAEL, JERUSALEM and the JEWS misses the mark by 20 years......and my points stand.....these things must SHORTLY come to PASS.....<----written AFTER 70 A.D.
 
Locutus

Locutus

Senior Member
#127
Feb 10, 2017
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#127
2 Pet 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The above one misunderstood statement has been used constantly to bring into doubt the plain time statements of the bible in an attempt to contradict what man is meant to understand as a reality in man's time frame.

Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

God used plain language to ensure than Daniel would not be confused about the timing in thinking it was for his days.

Simple - a kid can understand this.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#128
Dec 12, 2013
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#128
Sure the time of the END not the last days...........and the context is the great tribulation such as has never been seen and will never be seen again.....

LAST DAYS----------------->2000 years of history------------------>THE TIME OF THE END <---last 1335 days DANIEL 12
 
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GaryA

Guest
#129
#129
Locutus said:
The only problem with "historicism" is that it spreads the book of revelation over the centuries until "now" and has no clue who the "whore of Babylon" is.

The correct answer is 1st century apostate Judah who were held responsible for killing the prophets, Jesus and the apostles.
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But, that is the truth... :D

Except, it is not "now" - but, rather - some point in our future.


What about the martyrs of the dark ages? ( souls under the altar - Revelation 6:9-11 )

What about those "that should be killed as they were" ( Revelation 6:11 ) ? --- AFTER they were killed...
 
G

GaryA

Guest
#130
#130
trofimus said:
I think its nowhere. Whole the theology is based on one verse from Revelation.

Not only so, it seems that the common church did not believe in any millenium either, it has become such "big issue" only in our times:

"...and he [Jesus] will come to judge the living and the dead
..I believe...in the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen."
Apostles Creed, 120 AD

Creed of Nicea (325 AD) - no mention

Chalcedonian Creed (450 AD) - no mention

"He ascended into heaven, he sits on the right hand of God the Father Almighty, from whence he will come to judge the living and the dead. At whose coming all men will rise again with their bodies; And shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire."
Athanasian Creed (500 AD)

2017 AD - forums and churches, books and broadcasting full of millenial kingdom and theology. Something probably got wrong on the way.
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If Catholic declarations and proclamations are your source of authority on theology and the proper interpretation of the Bible, then you will surely be brought into error --- "no two ways about it"...

Only allow the Holy Spirit a rightful place of authority ( in your mind ) for the proper interpretation of the scriptures -- everything and everyone else is subject to error.

Those of you who have allowed any of the following to hold your mind captive - to which thing(s) you give approval - need to break free from the clutches thereof:

~ any and all declarations and proclamations throughout all of history that originated from Catholicism

~ any and all bibles and other 'dogma' throughout all of history that originated from Catholicism

~ any and all bibles and derivatives of the Alexandrian line of manuscripts

These things are tools of Satan. They are error. They are confusion.
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#131
Jul 28, 2012
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#131
GaryA said:
There is certainly truth in that statement, but..
Yes - there is more to it...
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Perhaps there there may be more to it but I am not too sure people properally appreciate tbe implications of what I said. It is a big deal to understand the relation of time to the nature of God. God does not respond to time, time responds of the will of God.
 
G

GaryA

Guest
#132
#132
oldhermit said:
Perhaps there there may be more to it but I am not too sure people properally appreciate tbe implications of what I said. It is a big deal to understand the relation of time to the nature of God. God does not respond to time, time responds of the will of God.
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Oh - I totally agree.

God invented time. God is outside of time. Time has no effect on God. ( except, according to the will of God )
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#133
Jul 28, 2012
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#133
GaryA said:
Oh - I totally agree.

God invented time. God is outside of time. Time has no effect on God. ( except, according to the will of God )
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Time has no effect on the will of God. God responds in time but not TO time. Time must always catch up to the will of God.
 
G

GaryA

Guest
#134
#134
oldhermit said:
Time has no effect on the will of God. God responds in time but not TO time. Time must always catch up to the will of God.
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I was not suggesting that. I was saying that time does not have any effect on God [ whatsoever ] - except, in whatever way(s) that He may want it to.

What I mean by the above is that He may choose to perceive time in any way He wishes. If He chooses, He may look at time - from His perspective and ours - both at the same time. He can look at it any way He wants to...

I did not mean that time has any 'control' over God in any way whatsoever.


God sees all of time at the same time. And, time has no effect on God.



( As far as I can tell, we are in complete agreement about time not having any 'control' over God or His will. )
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#135
#135
shrume said:
Why would you say this?

Do you think a person's views on eschatology determine whether Jesus "knows" a Christian or not?

FWIW, I mostly agree with Ahwatukee's understanding of the end times. Does that mean Jesus will say he never knew me?
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It depends. Is that the beginning and the end of your beliefs? Because if that's it, unless the Lord saves you in the future, yes. That's what will happen.

Or is it just one of many beliefs you have and this is just one of the smaller things? In which case, don't worry about it, because you aren't like Ahwatukee. That is the sum total of what he believes.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#136
#136
stonesoffire said:
I don't know about what's going to happen according to Revelations, but what I think we all should do right now? Form a line behind Bill to pull his head out of his backside!

lol.....hilarious Bill!
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Suggestion: How about reading Revelation without the assumption it was written for our future? Think about what was happening to the Christians of the first century. If your nation was being destroyed by Rome, after your own family shunned you, and everyone was out to kill you, exactly how important is a letter for people 2000 years later?

If that was for the future when I've already lost everything and I'm now hiding in fear for my life, I would give myself up and die. Why would I want to hear my descents face the same wrath far into the future too?
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#137
#137
shrume said:
Thanks for your opinion. :)

The holy spirit has led me to believe that the millennial kingdom, once it gets here, will be 1000 years long. Apparently you believe he has led you to believe something else. How do we handle the difference?

Where does the Bible say God can "bend time to His will"?
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I do believe the Holy Spirit leads us. But where does he lead us? To God or to the future of humans? If we back up everything we believe by saying "the Holy Spirit has led me," I'd still be believing that speaking in tongues is proof of salvation.

Some things, in things about God, crept into my thinking, and now that I know I've been wrong before, I no longer accept anyone saying "the Holy Spirit led me," just because they think that's the end of the argument they couldn't produce on their own.
 
Locutus

Locutus

Senior Member
#138
Feb 10, 2017
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#138
"The holy spirit has led me to believe that the millennial kingdom, once it gets here, will be 1000 years long. Apparently you believe he has led you to believe something else. How do we handle the difference?"

Yeah, well, my holy spirit is smarter than your holy spirit - so thar...:p
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#139
#139
shrume said:
Joe...... People try and use that verse to prove ANYTHING. You can't make something up (God can "bend time to his will") and then say it's true because with God all things are possible.

The Bible does say that God caused the sun to go backwards during one of Joshua's battles (can't remember the exact record at the moment..), so maybe that was "God bending time to his will"?
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They do the same thing with "the Holy Spirit led me."
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#140
#140
Locutus said:
Of course I missed the mark, that was 1970 years ago...:cool:
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You really have missed the mark. The Lord is the mark, and yet everyone is arguing about a thousand.

I'll let you all go about your arguing over subplots.

Outta here.
 
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