=mailmandan;3581407]
Abraham obeyed God by leaving his country, yet it was not until Genesis 15:5 when God brought Abraham outside and said, "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them."
1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
2 And I will make of thee a great nation,
and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
Isn't this the same promise He gave to everyone? "Obey Me, trust in me, Listen and
Do what I say, And I will Bless thee beyond your wildest dreams.
How can you preach that Abraham didn't have this promise from the very beginning?
It wasn't until Abram listened and obeyed that God tested his Faith regarding his son. No amount of wrangling can change this Biblical Fact MMD. As the Word which became Flesh said, that you refused to even acknowledge;
37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
These are "WORKS" that show we have Faith, that show
our choice to "deny our self" and follow Him and
His instructions, not the religious traditions of man.
And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be." In verse 6, we read that Abraham believed in the Lord (BELIEVED GOD - Romans 4:3) and it (faith, not works) was credited to him for righteousness. If Abraham would have stayed in his country and refused to believe God about his descendants being as numerous as the stars in heaven, then he would have demonstrated a lack of faith, but of course, that was not the case.
How can Abraham be righteous at 75 years of living outside of God's instructions? He couldn't be righteous, he had sin all over him. So for him to become righteous, something had to be done with his sin.
Did he take a goat to the nearest Levite Priest as was commanded by Moses? No!! That "law" was not given until 430 years later. Levi wasn't even born yet. So how was his sin forgiven? Was it not by Grace "Through his Faith"? Are the demons forgiven? They "believe"!!! No, they believe but they don't have Faith. Faith "REQUIRES" action, belief does not. Abraham didn't just believe, he obeyed. This action changed his belief to Faith, which is necessary for Grace.
I know you guys preach against this. I know your religion doesn't believe this. But the Bible confirms this teaching.
FAITH is believing and obedience is works. This is the same error that Roman Catholics make. I was in a discussion with a Roman Catholic about salvation through faith and here is what he had to say below:
We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc..
Yes, the catholic have created their own "works" for salvation just like the Pharisees did as Jesus said.
Matt. 15:
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with
their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me,
teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God
by your tradition?
Christmas, Sunday Worship, Lent, Halloween, Good Friday, Long haired images of God, all the Work's of the Catholic church and her many, many daughters.
You are right to expose them as not coming from the Word which became Flesh.
It is very deceptive how you mixed the religious traditions of the Catholics along with the commandments of God. Very tricky and deceptive MMD.
Abraham didn't continue in the religious traditions of his fathers, he was told to leave them. He did, however, obey God's instructions without creating his own.
God said Abraham was blessed "BECAUSE" He honored Him with obedience. This obedience was called FAITH in Heb. 11.
I have noticed that only those religious people who traditions cause them to transgress God's Commandments, argue with what seems like such a simple and Biblical truth about Abraham.
His argument about faith being "defined as" and INCLUDES these works above is absolutely FALSE and equates to salvation through faith (his version of faith) + works.
It is the Bible that teaches Faith without works is dead. I know you can't accept this. I wish you could.
First you said Abraham was saved without any works. Which the Bible exposes as not accurate. Now you claim His Works of obedience from the very beginning don't count because God hadn't promised him anything yet. Well, as you can see, the Bible also shows this as not accurate.
Then you have others who also error by defining faith as obedience/works and pervert the gospel, such as SDA's who teach salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works" as demonstrated below:
You are no different with your salvation by faith + obeying commandments/works theology.
I think it is wrong to assume anyone who isn't a catholic or one of her many daughters who mock her, but keep most of her religious traditions, is SDA or whatever you wish to tag them as.
I'm not a Catholic, nor am I a partaker of the many religious franchises she spawned, Baptist, AOG, Lutheran, Pentecostal, and on and on. I believe that any religious organization that "Transgress the Commandments of God by their own religious traditions" are no different than the Pharisees, who also claimed to be Children of Abraham.
Abraham wasn't justified by the Justification Laws given by Moses to the Levites 430 years after Abraham. He was justified by Faith. The Bible says Faith without "works" is dead. Abraham didn't just have any old religious works of the religions of the land. He left them, denied himself, took up his cross and "followed" the Word which became Flesh. He wasn't justified by "Works" of a Law "ADDED" 430 years later. He wasn't a "hearer" of God's Instructions but a "doer" of God's instructions. And it was this "action" that caused God to bless his Seed.
It's in your Bible, all you have to do is "believe it".
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Why people go to such extreme to preach that faith "is" obedience/works is not fascinating, but erroneous. Abraham may have believed in God enough to do as God instructed, but Abraham's faith was accounted to him for righteousness when he believed in the Lord in Genesis 15:5-6 many years BEFORE he set out to perform the WORK of sacrificing Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.
You have to preach this MMD. You have to separate obedience from Faith, not because of the Bibles teaching, but because of your religious traditions.
What if after Abraham left his country he would have refused to believe in the Lord/believe God when God told him that his descendants would be as numerous as the stars in heaven? Would his faith still have been accounted to him for righteousness? NO. But that was not the case because Abraham's faith in God was authentic. You, just like other works-salvationists, make the same error of taking faith and obedience/works, wrapping it all up in a package and simply stamping "faith" on the package, making no distinction between faith and obedience/works, which results in salvation by faith PLUS WORKS. This is commonly taught is every other false movement of Christendom. You need to learn the difference between faith and works of obedience which are produced "out of" faith. Faith is faith and works are works. To define faith "as" works and teach salvation by faith "plus works" is to pervert the gospel.
Abraham Followed God's instructions and it was called faith. He believed in God, but so do demons disguised as ministers of righteousness. What separated Abraham from the demons was his obedience to God, not religious man'. What separated Jesus from the others who were murdered on the same day was obedience to God, not religious man.
The common denominator in EVERY SINGLE EXAMPLE OF FAITH ever shown in the Bible, was obedience to God, not man.
No amount of ignoring, omitting, twisting, scripture can change this Biblical Fact. Nothing Paul says preaches against this.
Acts 26:
19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa,
I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
20 But
shewed first unto them of Damascus,
and at Jerusalem,
and throughout all the coasts of Judaea,
and then to
the Gentiles,
that they should repent and turn to God, and
do works meet for repentance.
Rejecting God's Commandments to serve religious traditions of man are not "Works" worthy of repentance. We should strive
to have "The Faith of Abraham", not just hear them.