I have no problem knowing that Jesus Christ was Almighty God in the flesh that came from heaven to dwell among us. The Father and the Son are one and when Philip laid eyes upon the Son he was laying eyes upon the Father, HERE ARE SOME PLAIN WORDS 'If you have seen me you have seen the Father, so why are you saying show us the Father'? God came in the flesh through the person of His Son and dwelt among men and if you deny that the Father was in the Son and came in the likeness of sinful flesh through the Son then that is the Spirit of antichrist. If you make the Son anything less then the Father that is the spirit of antichrist. The Father and the Son are one and they are the same. To say that Christ came in the flesh is to say that the Father took upon Himself the likeness of sinful flesh through His Son. Emmanuel, 'God with us!'
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Now I am just being honsest here, you continually ignore nearly all of the scripture put to you on this subject. Five times you have refused to answer my direct question as to whether Christ told the truth in John 17:3 but you expect me(which I do) to answer all the scripture you put before me
Then you say I have the spirit of antichrist in me, and I am just believing the PLAIN words of scripture, and the plain words of Christ on this subject.
If you cannot answer the scriptures put to you and just ignore them and you cannot say wheher you believe Christ spoke the truth when asked to concerning a specific scripture, where is your credibility on this subject?
Even if I disagreed withj someone I could NEVER tell them they had the spirit of antichrist in them if they stood on plain scripture, I would literally tremble at the thought of it.
But you carry on doing this. You do not hurt me by your words but one day you will stand before Christ at the day of judgement and so will I
If he asks me why I believed as I did I will say
'Because I trusted in the words you spoke while on this earth Lord'
If Christ turns to you and says
Why did you say he had the spirit of antichrist in him for believing my words.'
What will you reply?
On that day you will not be able to hide behind any humanistic logic and words
Then you say I have the spirit of antichrist in me, and I am just believing the PLAIN words of scripture, and the plain words of Christ on this subject.
If you cannot answer the scriptures put to you and just ignore them and you cannot say wheher you believe Christ spoke the truth when asked to concerning a specific scripture, where is your credibility on this subject?
Even if I disagreed withj someone I could NEVER tell them they had the spirit of antichrist in them if they stood on plain scripture, I would literally tremble at the thought of it.
But you carry on doing this. You do not hurt me by your words but one day you will stand before Christ at the day of judgement and so will I
If he asks me why I believed as I did I will say
'Because I trusted in the words you spoke while on this earth Lord'
If Christ turns to you and says
Why did you say he had the spirit of antichrist in him for believing my words.'
What will you reply?
On that day you will not be able to hide behind any humanistic logic and words
You can ramble on and believe what you want, but keep it to yourself and don't try to convince others of your terrible error. People are listening and there just not going to let you or others get away with it. The spirit of antichrist in these days we live in is more than the modernism and unitarianism that has perpetuated this spirit. Satan is very subtle when he functions within the mystery of iniquity that is presently at work and has alot more tricks in his bag then he use to. He understands man's heart better than he ever did and knows how to get to certain people through spiritual wickedness (not moral wickedness) in high places.
This angel of light that Satan can transform himself into and his ministers of righteousness have their own doctrine and it only takes a little leavened doctrine to effect the whole lump. The whole issue of slandering and blaspheming the Spirit is the by product of rejecting the Son who was sent by the Father and denying that Christ (God almighty the anointed one) had come in the flesh and blasphemed by making Himself equal with God. After they accused the Son of God of this blasphemy, it was only another step to accuse His supernatural work, done through the Spirit, to be unclean and of the devil.
Every effort should be made to make sure that we hold onto the truth that we have been taught in the scriptures. Especially of God becoming a man in the likeness of sinful to condemn sin in the flesh bringing God's great salvation to sinful men through His Son. Why anyone would want to say that the Father and the Son were not equal and the same is part of the deception that will lead many away from the doctrine they have learned concerning Christ and making Him less than Almighty God.
This angel of light that Satan can transform himself into and his ministers of righteousness have their own doctrine and it only takes a little leavened doctrine to effect the whole lump. The whole issue of slandering and blaspheming the Spirit is the by product of rejecting the Son who was sent by the Father and denying that Christ (God almighty the anointed one) had come in the flesh and blasphemed by making Himself equal with God. After they accused the Son of God of this blasphemy, it was only another step to accuse His supernatural work, done through the Spirit, to be unclean and of the devil.
Every effort should be made to make sure that we hold onto the truth that we have been taught in the scriptures. Especially of God becoming a man in the likeness of sinful to condemn sin in the flesh bringing God's great salvation to sinful men through His Son. Why anyone would want to say that the Father and the Son were not equal and the same is part of the deception that will lead many away from the doctrine they have learned concerning Christ and making Him less than Almighty God.
Red, you are right, others do read these threads , and the posts which go between us. And you know what, God is not served.
The truth of this is to my shame. I have asked for forgiveness, having confessed my sin. I will no longer see your posts, and I recommend that everyone else ignore you also. The one who reacts to the provocation is guilty of the same sin as the one who provokes.
The truth of this is to my shame. I have asked for forgiveness, having confessed my sin. I will no longer see your posts, and I recommend that everyone else ignore you also. The one who reacts to the provocation is guilty of the same sin as the one who provokes.
Why would anyone want to say the Father and son are not equal?
The Father is greater than I
John 14:28
The Father is greater than all
John 10:29
Christ was God Himself on earth?
That they may know you, THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent
John 17:3
So who should I believe Red? You or Christ?
The Father is greater than I
John 14:28
The Father is greater than all
John 10:29
Christ was God Himself on earth?
That they may know you, THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent
John 17:3
So who should I believe Red? You or Christ?
I am not ashamed of the Son who is equal with the Father, who came in the likeness of sinful flesh to shed His blood and suffer death for the sins of men. I am not ashamed of that gospel. I am not ashamed of the truth and testimony of the written word that bares witness of this gospel. I am not ashamed of those that believe the truth and glorify the Father and the Son with the truth of this gospel. I am not ashamed of the fellowship that we have with the Father and the Son who are one and have the same nature through this gospel. I am not ashamed of the Son that made Himself equal with the Father and did the works of the Father that we might believe the gospel. I am not ashamed of the truth that we can know the only true God through the gospel of the Son.
2Cor 4:2-6
2 We have renounced disgraceful ways (secret thoughts, feelings, desires and underhandedness, the methods and arts that men hide through shame); we refuse to deal craftily (to practice trickery and cunning) or to adulterate or handle dishonestly the Word of God, but we state the truth openly (clearly and candidly). And so we commend ourselves in the sight and presence of God to every man's conscience.
3 But even if our Gospel (the glad tidings) also be hidden (obscured and covered up with a veil that hinders the knowledge of God), it is hidden to those who are perishing and obscured to those who are spiritually dying and veiled to those who are lost.
4 For the god of this world has blinded the unbelievers' minds [that they should not discern the truth], preventing them from seeing the illuminating light of the Gospel of the glory of Christ (the Messiah), Who is the Image and Likeness of God.
5 For what we preach is not ourselves but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves [merely] as your servants (slaves) for Jesus' sake.
6 For God Who said, Let light shine out of darkness, has shone in our hearts so as [to beam forth] the Light for the illumination of the knowledge of the majesty and glory of God [as it is manifest in the Person and is revealed] in the face of Jesus Christ (the Messiah).
2Cor 4:2-6
2 We have renounced disgraceful ways (secret thoughts, feelings, desires and underhandedness, the methods and arts that men hide through shame); we refuse to deal craftily (to practice trickery and cunning) or to adulterate or handle dishonestly the Word of God, but we state the truth openly (clearly and candidly). And so we commend ourselves in the sight and presence of God to every man's conscience.
3 But even if our Gospel (the glad tidings) also be hidden (obscured and covered up with a veil that hinders the knowledge of God), it is hidden to those who are perishing and obscured to those who are spiritually dying and veiled to those who are lost.
4 For the god of this world has blinded the unbelievers' minds [that they should not discern the truth], preventing them from seeing the illuminating light of the Gospel of the glory of Christ (the Messiah), Who is the Image and Likeness of God.
5 For what we preach is not ourselves but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves [merely] as your servants (slaves) for Jesus' sake.
6 For God Who said, Let light shine out of darkness, has shone in our hearts so as [to beam forth] the Light for the illumination of the knowledge of the majesty and glory of God [as it is manifest in the Person and is revealed] in the face of Jesus Christ (the Messiah).
Surely, if you believe that the Father is greater than the Son you can tell us in what way He is greater? Is there anything that the Father can do or has done that the Son can not do or has not done? Here is your chance to be the spiritual giant that you are and show us from the scriptures your vast knowledge and understanding that supports your presuppositions and presumptions about the Father and the Son.
As to your question, I take it once again you do not accept the plain words of your saviour? (John 14:28) You obviously do not. The answer is simple
That they may know you,. THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent
The only true God would have to be all powerful
But you have not the courage of your convictions have you to publically endorse those words of Christ?
So as you pick and choose what you believe concerning what Christ said when he walked thios earth I have to wonder why I am discussing with you.
And I will be honest, it does not say much for me
VW is rtight
So I will leave you with your beliefs
Just one thought
Someone said to you a couple of days ago you needed to be filled with the spirit(I think those were the words used) something I wholeheartily agree with
You refuse to put yourself under any man of God to be taught those things that God teaches in the local assembly. You are an independent Christian, as is VW, that has separated themselves from the local assembly and wants to do their own thing without having any pastor-teacher over them in the Lord. You and VW believe that you are mature enough as believers that you do not need that any man teach you anything and that is rebellion. You both misinterpret (1Jn 2:27) and VW scoffs at those that esteem methods of interpretation and rightly dividing the word of truth as being ridiculous. He thinks just because He has the Spirit that God does not honor those that He raises up to preach and teach the word and doctrine in the church.
You and he would never give double honor to those who labour in the word and doctrine nor would you esteem them VERY HIGHLY in love for their works sake according to (1Tim 5:17, 1Thes 5:12,13). These are the plain words of scriptures that have come from the Holy Spirit through a man of God and neither one of you honor nor intend to honor what they instruct. Why should we listen to anything that you have to say when you neglect to obey the word concerning the local assembly and those that God has raised up to preach and teach in the church? I would call that a spirit of rebellion and a spirit of anti-christ. God has given to the church these men as a gift of mercy and grace and when you reject them you reject the one who sent them. To me that is being anti-christ because you refuse to submit to those God has sent and given His Spirit who are flesh and bones just like yourself.
From what I can tell, do either one of you actually believe that God's great salvation is eternal and sealed forever in the believer by the Holy Spirit when they first believe the gospel or do you believe and invest your mind in some other contrived concoction?
You and he would never give double honor to those who labour in the word and doctrine nor would you esteem them VERY HIGHLY in love for their works sake according to (1Tim 5:17, 1Thes 5:12,13). These are the plain words of scriptures that have come from the Holy Spirit through a man of God and neither one of you honor nor intend to honor what they instruct. Why should we listen to anything that you have to say when you neglect to obey the word concerning the local assembly and those that God has raised up to preach and teach in the church? I would call that a spirit of rebellion and a spirit of anti-christ. God has given to the church these men as a gift of mercy and grace and when you reject them you reject the one who sent them. To me that is being anti-christ because you refuse to submit to those God has sent and given His Spirit who are flesh and bones just like yourself.
From what I can tell, do either one of you actually believe that God's great salvation is eternal and sealed forever in the believer by the Holy Spirit when they first believe the gospel or do you believe and invest your mind in some other contrived concoction?
never forget,we did not choose God, but it is God that choose us.
he knows the heart,and if he happen to choose one, that one will walk in Gods path and he will guide.if you have the urge to seek God; you will go through the sciptures, and you will find the answers.
dont resist the spirit,you must spend some of your time for God.
wakeup''.
im not saying we look to the written law, because the written law was fulfilled through Christ... however, law still is in affect, for without the law, there is no morality. There has to be law in order for there to be grace. They both work simultaneously, for our benefit.
Now im not saying we live by the law, at least by the ordinances of the Mosaic Law, because those were fulfilled and abolished... but we do uphold the law... as Romans 3 states, we fulfill the law through faith. Abraham was bound by law, but it was not the law that saved him... it was his faith. However, Abraham still had works, because through righteousness, his faith was made apparent through his works... we cant simply say "grace" and "faith"... it's more than that. always has been.
Now im not saying we live by the law, at least by the ordinances of the Mosaic Law, because those were fulfilled and abolished... but we do uphold the law... as Romans 3 states, we fulfill the law through faith. Abraham was bound by law, but it was not the law that saved him... it was his faith. However, Abraham still had works, because through righteousness, his faith was made apparent through his works... we cant simply say "grace" and "faith"... it's more than that. always has been.
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What law was Abraham bound by?
Circumcision?
The Mosaic law had not yet been given
A true salvation built on grace(through faith) would have to produce works, BUT by the power of the Holy Spirit in a persons life, and works done out of love and gratitude to God for sending his son to die for a sinner such as they.
Such works are done with NO HINT in the individuals mind that they will in anyway aid his entry into Heaven(they know they are secure with God because Christ died for them), simply out of love for God
Circumcision?
The Mosaic law had not yet been given
A true salvation built on grace(through faith) would have to produce works, BUT by the power of the Holy Spirit in a persons life, and works done out of love and gratitude to God for sending his son to die for a sinner such as they.
Such works are done with NO HINT in the individuals mind that they will in anyway aid his entry into Heaven(they know they are secure with God because Christ died for them), simply out of love for God
If you really want to be honest about this, just chech the profiles. VW - 6.24 posts per day, LBG - 3.49, Red33 - 1.56, I think you can see the amount of time spent on this site. All such boasting is vain.
There are times when we go out on the streets ministering the gospel and knocking on doors in many different neighboring towns and cities 3-4 times a week. It is good to pour out your vessel so that you don't get stagnant. Sometimes we put in 10-12 hrs on Saturday ministering to young people and sharing the gospel with their families no matter what the weather may be like. If we can get there without endangering ourselves we will go because we are practical and not foolish. It is good to be under preaching and teaching that stirs you up in the things of God to be obedient to the gospel and the calling you have from God. It is good to gather and assemble yourself with believers who you are members one of another and worship in spirit and truth. In all of this there is godly contentment because God is in the midst of us and is rejoicing over us (1Tim 6:6, Zeph 3:17). There is joy in heaven and in the presence of the angels over one sinner that repents (Lk 15:7,10).
There are times when we go out on the streets ministering the gospel and knocking on doors in many different neighboring towns and cities 3-4 times a week. It is good to pour out your vessel so that you don't get stagnant. Sometimes we put in 10-12 hrs on Saturday ministering to young people and sharing the gospel with their families no matter what the weather may be like. If we can get there without endangering ourselves we will go because we are practical and not foolish. It is good to be under preaching and teaching that stirs you up in the things of God to be obedient to the gospel and the calling you have from God. It is good to gather and assemble yourself with believers who you are members one of another and worship in spirit and truth. In all of this there is godly contentment because God is in the midst of us and is rejoicing over us (1Tim 6:6, Zeph 3:17). There is joy in heaven and in the presence of the angels over one sinner that repents (Lk 15:7,10).
By implication was Jesus Christ adding to the law when He mandated His disciples to go into all the world and preach the gospel and teach all nations as a fisher of men in (Mt 28:19,20, Mk 1:17, 16:15).
Both verbs, preach and teach are verbs with the imperative mood - which means that they are commands or mandates to be carried out through the authority of the one that gave them.
I hope you are not implying that we as believers do not have a mandate from Christ to go into all the world, as a fisher of men, to preach the gospel and teach all nations what we have been taught concerning Him? Jesus Christ came to seek and save that which is lost (Lk 19:10) and we are to do the same in all the world.
Both verbs, preach and teach are verbs with the imperative mood - which means that they are commands or mandates to be carried out through the authority of the one that gave them.
I hope you are not implying that we as believers do not have a mandate from Christ to go into all the world, as a fisher of men, to preach the gospel and teach all nations what we have been taught concerning Him? Jesus Christ came to seek and save that which is lost (Lk 19:10) and we are to do the same in all the world.
You sound spiritual to the nominal Christian that has not been taught or is new to the faith but you know nothing about the local assembly and the involvement the Holy Spirit has in the preaching and teaching of those that have been raised up. You in your own words despise the local assembly and discourage people from attending one. You are going against what God has built, the church, and giving counsel that believers do not need what God has prepared for them. You make believers independent of the body of Christ and the supply of the Spirit within each member.
You discredit and presume against the preaching and teaching of those that God has raised through the Spirit, as men preaching their own doctrine, yet you want others to believe that you have the Spirit and to receive what you have to say. There was a man that John warned others about that turned believers away and out of the local church that came to assemble with other believers to hear the word preached by the apostles. This man would not receive them and slandered the message and messenger of the apostles. As believers we are to encourage others to assemble themselves to hear the word of God and to do it much more as the Lord's day approaches (Heb 10:24).
You discredit and presume against the preaching and teaching of those that God has raised through the Spirit, as men preaching their own doctrine, yet you want others to believe that you have the Spirit and to receive what you have to say. There was a man that John warned others about that turned believers away and out of the local church that came to assemble with other believers to hear the word preached by the apostles. This man would not receive them and slandered the message and messenger of the apostles. As believers we are to encourage others to assemble themselves to hear the word of God and to do it much more as the Lord's day approaches (Heb 10:24).
Sad to say there are so many inacurracies in what you have posted, and your comments are soley meant to malign me(this time)
You demand of others what you do not follow in your own life. You see no power(or little of it) in your church and you look to and rely on man far more than the spirit. And you cannot have the courage to publically endorse Christ's words when he walked this earth, for they do not fit into your man made theology
This is very weak Christianity that will always be devoid of true power. Please note, I have not said you have the spirit of antichrist in you
But continue quoting scripture to find fault with others, it is you who will be answereable for such an approach
You demand of others what you do not follow in your own life. You see no power(or little of it) in your church and you look to and rely on man far more than the spirit. And you cannot have the courage to publically endorse Christ's words when he walked this earth, for they do not fit into your man made theology
This is very weak Christianity that will always be devoid of true power. Please note, I have not said you have the spirit of antichrist in you
But continue quoting scripture to find fault with others, it is you who will be answereable for such an approach
I understand that you do not want to be known by these things but if you don't, then don't communicate to others in that manner. The way that you have defended yourself comes from insecurity. If you want to defend the faith then explain from the scriptures why it is the will of God for believers to esteem and be a joint participant of the local church. If you do that, then others will believe that you have convictions that come from the truth of the scriptures and not from personal preference that came through some family negative experience. Don't worry what VW might think, because like you said, we will all have to face God with the truth that abides in the heart.
BTW - Did God call you to any of those local churches and were you edified and built up in any of those churches through the word that was preached? Or were they just some kind of stepping stone for you to go in your independant walk with God that you have now?
BTW - Did God call you to any of those local churches and were you edified and built up in any of those churches through the word that was preached? Or were they just some kind of stepping stone for you to go in your independant walk with God that you have now?