Nephilim On The Ark

happygal · May 25, 2011

Why would our loving God choose to create evil beings and put us through this evil for 6,000-7,000 years just for a future purpose, rather than just create perfect creatures who would love him and each other for eternity right from the start? He didn't. That was not his original plan. Our loving God wouldn't be so cruel. What happened is this. Our God is so loving that he gave his creatures freedom of choice. He does not force anyone to love him, therefore many angels have rebelled, and because of Adam's disobedience, we are being put through this evil for 6,000-7,000 years for a future purpose.

happygal · May 25, 2011

Right on...I was going to bring up Revelation.

MaggieMye · May 25, 2011

Why would our loving God choose to create evil beings and put us through this evil for 6,000-7,000 years just for a future purpose, rather than just create perfect creatures who would love him and each other for eternity right from the start? He didn't. That was not his original plan. YES, IT WAS! Without evil, humans would not have to CHOOSE to love God; to CHOOSE to OBEY. Who wants forced love? THat is not real love and God, like anyone else, does not want robotic obedience. LOVE, true love, produces obedience because of the RELATIONSHIP. Without evil, their is no choice and we would be nothing more to Him than robots...programmed to love Him and with no choice to not to. Our loving God wouldn't be so cruel. It is not cruelty. It is righteousness and sovereignty. What happened is this. Our God is so loving that he gave his creatures freedom of choice. He does not force anyone to love him, therefore many angels have rebelled, and because of Adam's disobedience, we are being put through this evil for 6,000-7,000 years for a future purpose. You MUST UNDERSTAND that Adam's disobedience WAS GOD'S PLAN. It was the only way that the human race could expand, would need a Savior, and would have a CHOICE as to whether or not to truly love Him. God being omnipotent KNEW what Adam would do. And He allowed it FOR A PURPOSE.

Maggie

Adrianv125 · May 25, 2011

journey41 said:

I will agree that this passage of Job is talking about angels. But I am still super skeptical of the passage in Genesis because it says they took them for WIVES. Shouldn't that imply they resided on planet earth and took the roles of husbands? I don't know, I just can't say with 100% certainty that the ones mentioned in genesis 6 are of angelic nature.

Adrianv125 · May 25, 2011

Genesis 6
1And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Also, God seems to be pretty quiet about this theory that angels intermingled in verse 3.

silverwind · May 25, 2011

Adrianv125 said:

Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God (bene Elohim) saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God (bene Elohim) came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

If you take a closer look at the BOLD words, wouldn't that apply to the TIME when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men??
Many people interpret it 'future' when it looks like it applies to those times when it happened. I think it's all in the comma. If you take the comma away, you get a sentence that applies to the time THEN.. but with the comma it could be seen as 'future'...."and also afterward when.......etc"

I believe the flood destroyed those pesky nephilim and left their demonic spirits behind. The Nephilim were the children born to the "sons of God mating with human women". If there are Nephilim NOW, then that means other angels fell and repeated the act with human women. I don't believe there is any documentation of that. So my thinking is that there are no more Nephilim, only their spirits.

Of course you can disagree, but apparently God bound the naughty angels a long time ago in the centre of the earth. (or bottomless pit?)

SW

wakeup · May 25, 2011

Adrianv125 said:

HI bro, you just can not imagine what these spirit creatures are capable of.
They can materialise looking like humans,or animals,and have sex with them.
Angels ate bread and meat with abraham. Jesus ate and drank.
These fallen angels could apear as a horse and have sex with a horse.They did this then,but are forbidden now.All in Gods control.

wakeup · May 25, 2011

MaggieMye said:

Dude! Abraham BOWED HIMSELF TO THE GROUND and said "My Lord (capitol L, inidcating that one of them was Christ pre-incarnate) ....favor in Your sight, captial Y., Your servant. The only being Abraham was ever servant to was God. Verse 1 even SAYS the LORD appeard to him. The three men were the Lord and two of His angels, ALL in the form of MEN.

Maggie

Both KJB and NASB Captitalize the word "LORD" indicating it was GOD

1And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; 2And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, 3And said, My LORD, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:

One of them is the lord; and only two went to sodom,to warn lot.

AnandaHya · May 25, 2011

happygal said:

I don't get it either Happygal and stopped reading the responses after your post.

If people want to believe in a dualistic God they want to agree with the Taoist world view of yin and yang, Good and bad, where bad is part of God's plan and not listen to the teachings of GOD and Jesus about how Light has not place with Darkness and how God made the world and said it was GOOD! then that is their choice to be so deceived. Satan used the same tactic in the early church history with the Gnosticism. It just changes a little with the times, but it has God creating both good and evil and the need for "secret" knowledge and understanding of the scripture. it is unbiblical and if any one who has the Holy Spirit inside them feels like reading and researching and learning about it the information is out there. here is a link and some Bible verses.

God's blessings be upon all God's children, whomever He choses them to be.

Gnosticism | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

Genesis 1
31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

wakeup · May 25, 2011

happygal said:

If God did not create lucifer,all this would not have happened; For God is all knowing,he knew what lucifer is going to be; A bad angel,but he did not change his mind and carried on with creating this bad one.? Why??

happygal · May 25, 2011

Notice I wrote, "he did not CREATE "evil" humans nor "evil" spirits (demons) for any purpose."
The bible states that, "The Lord has MADE everything for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of evil."
There is a difference between CREATE and MADE.
You can use a lemon to MAKE lemonade, but that does not mean that you CREATED the lemon.
God did not CREATE evil, but he allows it for now, and can USE it for his purpose.

happygal · May 25, 2011

You write, "The angels CHOSE TO LEAVE heaven and follow Lucifer. They did not disobey by leaving, they made a choice to leave. It was because of their chosen rebellion that they HAD to leave."
If you told your child to stay home, yet he or she CHOSE TO LEAVE, didn't he or she disobey by leaving?
How would it be because of his or her chosen rebellion that he or she HAD to leave?

Yes, God can create evil or calamity, such as the flood or the 10 plagues for a good reason (justice against wrongdoers), but our loving God did not create Satan and the demons as Satan and the demons. He created them as angels who used their freedom of choice to disobey him. Why would our loving God create demons?

You write, "the BIBLE says that they were on the earth during 'those days' (Noah's days) AND AFTER."
You also write, "Inserting the UNBiblical concept of "after God's statement" is just that...inserting and adding to God's worth that which is not there."
Isn't that what you just did?

What do you think happened to the disobedient angels when the flood came? Drown?

Though I must be having a difficult time finding scripture to explain spirits, angels, demons (I may continue looking), my understanding is that God created humans and spirits. Humans can choose to be good or bad. Spirits can choose to be good or bad. One major difference is that humans can change back and forth from being good or bad, and spirits can change from being good to bad, but spirits cannot change from being bad to good. God gives spirits only one time to choose, because they were created perfect, but humans after Adam and Eve are not perfect.

happygal · May 25, 2011

Would it be loving for you to intentionally CREATE an evil being (child) that was doomed from birth, with no possibility of changing? Or...would you create a perfect child with freedom of choice, and hope that he or she would love you because of all the wonderful things that you did for him or her?

There was no evil in Adam and Eve's day, until the serpent lied to Eve, yet they both had freedom of choice to love and obey God or disobey him. Adam and Eve were not robots.

You wrote, "You MUST UNDERSTAND that Adam's disobedience WAS GOD'S PLAN." and "It was the only way that the human race could expand."
This sounds like a sadistic God created robotic children to follow his one and only chosen plan of misery, rather than a loving God who devised plan B in order to restore his original plan.
And...why would you need to disobey in order to have children and expand the human race?

happygal · May 25, 2011

Can you help me out here? I thought the bible bible stated that God is all knowing, however, I cannot find it right now. I believe this only applies to things only AFTER they have been created (for example: he can read our hearts and he knows how many hairs are on our heads, etc.)

happygal · May 25, 2011

Many of us (including myself) have gone way off base from your original question. I am new on here and just learning how this works. I have returned to your original statement, and I have an answer for you.
The 10 spies who went to check out the land of Canaan, upon seeing huge men, brought back a false report to the Israelites in the wilderness in order to cause panic among them.
Num. 13:31-33 "We are not able to go up against the people, because they are stronger than we are.” And they kept on bringing forth to the sons of Israel a bad report of the land that they had spied out, saying: “The land, which we passed through to spy it out, is a land that eats up its inhabitants; and all the people whom we saw in the midst of it are men of extraordinary size. And there we saw the Neph′i·lim, the sons of A′nak, who are from the Neph′i·lim; so that we became in our own eyes like grasshoppers, and the same way we became in their eyes.”
Num. 14:36 "And the men whom Moses sent to spy out the land and who, when they returned, began making the whole assembly murmur against him (Moses), by bringing forth a bad report against the land, yes, the men bringing forth the bad report about the land will die by the scourge before God."
They lied.
There have been other large men mentioned in the bible (post flood), but I do not see where they were ever called Nephilim.

trust_in_the_name · May 26, 2011

happygal said:

Many of us (including myself) have gone way off base from your original question. I am new on here and just learning how this works. I have returned to your original statement, and I have an answer for you.
The 10 spies who went to check out the land of Canaan, upon seeing huge men, brought back a false report to the Israelites in the wilderness in order to cause panic among them.
Num. 13:31-33 "We are not able to go up against the people, because they are stronger than we are.” And they kept on bringing forth to the sons of Israel a bad report of the land that they had spied out, saying: “The land, which we passed through to spy it out, is a land that eats up its inhabitants; and all the people whom we saw in the midst of it are men of extraordinary size. And there we saw the Neph′i·lim, the sons of A′nak, who are from the Neph′i·lim; so that we became in our own eyes like grasshoppers, and the same way we became in their eyes.”
Num. 14:36 "And the men whom Moses sent to spy out the land and who, when they returned, began making the whole assembly murmur against him (Moses), by bringing forth a bad report against the land, yes, the men bringing forth the bad report about the land will die by the scourge before God."
They lied.
There have been other large men mentioned in the bible (post flood), but I do not see where they were ever called Nephilim.

The bad report refers to bad news ("a land that devours its inhabitants, and all the people whom we saw in it are men of great stature"). If it meant they were lying it would have used different terminology, and the context shows that the report was bad (i.e. dismal in its outlook) in terms of its military prospects.

trust_in_the_name · May 26, 2011

happygal said:

It's preposterous to claim that God's plan can be derailed. Read Romans 9 then get back to us.

trust_in_the_name · May 26, 2011

happygal said:

It applies after, during, and before. God is not subject to time or limited in any way.

3 But our God is in heaven; He does whatever He pleases. (Psalm 115:3)

8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End," says the Lord, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." (Revelation 1:8)

13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last." (Revelation 22:13)

4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, (Ephesians 1:4)

MaggieMye · May 26, 2011

happygal said:

You write, "The angels CHOSE TO LEAVE heaven and follow Lucifer. They did not disobey by leaving, they made a choice to leave. It was because of their chosen rebellion that they HAD to leave."
If you told your child to stay home, yet he or she CHOSE TO LEAVE, didn't he or she disobey by leaving? Angels are not children. God created angels to do His bidding. They have free will to do it or not do and they chose to not do it so they had to leave. Why is that so hard to understand?
How would it be because of his or her chosen rebellion that he or she HAD to leave? Rebellion is sin. It is an UNrighteous attitude. It is PRIDE. These things cannot be in heaven.

Yes, God can create evil or calamity, such as the flood or the 10 plagues for a good reason (justice against wrongdoers), but our loving God did not create Satan and the demons as Satan and the demons. YES HE DID!! Read the Bible!! ONLY SATAN is an angel, once having been called 'Lucifer'. There are NO SCRIIPTURES TO SUPPORT the concept of any other ANGELS being refered to as 'demons'. NONE. Demons are unclean spirits, not unclean angels. He created them as angels who used their freedom of choice to disobey him. Why would our loving God create demons? Demons are for the purpose of tempting us, of doing Satan's bidding, and, like it or not, of entering into our bodies and minds when the door to our soul is opened by sin.

You write, "the BIBLE says that they were on the earth during 'those days' (Noah's days) AND AFTER."
You also write, "Inserting the UNBiblical concept of "after God's statement" is just that...inserting and adding to God's worth that which is not there."
Isn't that what you just did? Not at all. "after God's statement' is heretical. But the Word simply reads "and after" leaving it open to ANY TIME after.

What do you think happened to the disobedient angels when the flood came? Drown? for the ones that left with Lucifer, they are STILL LOCKED in chains; for the ones that came before Noah TO THE EARTH, yes, they drowned. God brought the flood to cleanse the earth.

Though I must be having a difficult time finding scripture to explain spirits, angels, demons (I may continue looking), my understanding is that God created humans and spirits. Humans can choose to be good or bad. Spirits can choose to be good or bad. One major difference is that humans can change back and forth from being good or bad,not really. See Heb 6:4-6 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age tocome, 6and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. God's word tell us that it is IMPOSSIBLE for one to believe and then, in UNbelief, turn away from God and THEN turn back to Him.
and spirits can change from being good to bad, but spirits cannot change from being bad to good. Right God gives spirits only one time to choose, because they were created perfect, but humans after Adam and Eve are not perfect. The whole point of the Gospel is so that we can GET BACK to the perfect, original state that God created us in. He creates evil. But he does NOT create IMperfection. When He finished on the 6th day, He said ALL was good. Even the evil He created was/is perfect...perfectly evil and perfected evil.
Maggie

serpentslayer · May 26, 2011

AnandaHya said:

why wouldn't angels be in the order of living creatures? cherubim and seraphim are angels and they don't sound like humans or descendents of Eve to me...

are you saying that humans used to be angels?

Adam were not angels as we know of angels; but, they were human in whom dwelt the Spirit of God is
some great measure. The image of the LORD is that of a man, and the likeness of the Lord is that of
beautiful, colorful light (Ez 1:26-28, 1Jn 1:7); therefore, Adam and Eve must of looked the same. And,
consider: if 'angels' were a creation seperate from mankind, why would God not tell us of them in the
Beginning (Gen 1 & 2), especially satan, who caused all to fall? Could it be that this it the myth or fable
that the TRUTH is to be turned into according to prophesy, since the LORD never mentioned angels as a
seperate creation by HIS account. OR, do you not understand that it is man who perverts the TRUTH by
adding to it, or diminishing from it, as the devil did to Eve? Is not Eve telling an untruth in her response
to the serpent's question, when compared to what the LORD told Adam? How can this be since she is
not the first liar (the devil is - Jn 8:44), unless it was already told her and she believed it? And who was
suppose to tell her the Commandment? Was it not Adam, to whom the LORD gave the Garden and the
Commandment?

Nephilim On The Ark

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