The key to the Pre-Trib Rapture:
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There will be one future resurrection of all as I have shown you, John 5:28-29, at this time those that lived and died in faith receive their glorified bodies, this takes place on (The Last Day) John 6:39-40, This (Last Day) is the time of final judgement John 12:48
There arent multiple resurrections, at different times as you suggest
There arent multiple resurrections, at different times as you suggest
Luke 21 is a parallel teaching of Matthew 24 & Mark 13, it's amazing how you conveniently excluded it 
Luke 21 is written to the church, that will be present on earth during the tribulation, and present to witness the second coming.
Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Luke 21 is written to the church, that will be present on earth during the tribulation, and present to witness the second coming.
Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
S
One very obvious reason to suspect that you might possibly be wrong about some of the details of your eschatology is when you realize that you are grieving the Holy Spirit by arguing about it like an immature elementary grade school child.
If you can do that without loosing any sleep over it, isn't it possible that since you are ignoring the voice of the Spirit that would tell you not to do that, then it is also possible that you might not be hearing the voice of the Spirit in your eschatological interpretations?
I mean why be so dogmatically confident about the exactness of your eschatological interpretation, when you keep sinning in the light by your immature arguing? If you can do that without conviction, it is a good indication that you spiritual ears are plugged to the voice of the Spirit. And if so then why be so sure about your prophecy theories?
Learn to present your theories with scriptures and the rules of hermeneutics and if someone still does not agree let it go. Or learn to present your hermeneutics in such a way that edifies those that read them and if they still don't agree, others who read your post will be edified.
If you fall into the sin of childish rhetoric then whatever you had to say will become suspect anyway.
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Yo.
The only excuse I can find for Darby is that when he developed his end times scheme it must have all seemed far off into the future, the Jews were not back in their homeland.
One remark I would make is an important one, the revealing of Nastypants comes before the coming of the Lord, not simultaneous or after. He has already had his career of opposing everything god so called and everything worshipped as God.
This is the great end times persecution we are warned to expect ....persecution, trouble .... tribulation.
He is seated in the temple declaring that he is himself God and is destroyed by the coming and power of the Lord.
So it is his end not his beginning.
The only excuse I can find for Darby is that when he developed his end times scheme it must have all seemed far off into the future, the Jews were not back in their homeland.
One remark I would make is an important one, the revealing of Nastypants comes before the coming of the Lord, not simultaneous or after. He has already had his career of opposing everything god so called and everything worshipped as God.
This is the great end times persecution we are warned to expect ....persecution, trouble .... tribulation.
He is seated in the temple declaring that he is himself God and is destroyed by the coming and power of the Lord.
So it is his end not his beginning.
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What is retraining you from seeing the man of lawlessness?
Yes I'm talking to you! Who is restraining you from seeing the man of lawlessness?
Answer: You.
It is YOU who restrains you from seeing who the man of lawlessness is.
If you would just get out of your own way it would be plain to see. He is in the news most every day. Everyone knows about him.
Let not yourself deceive you.
But, is your salvation contingent on you correctly seeing who the man of lawlessness is? No. Because if it was yes then your salvation would be based on works.
Yes I'm talking to you! Who is restraining you from seeing the man of lawlessness?
Answer: You.
It is YOU who restrains you from seeing who the man of lawlessness is.
If you would just get out of your own way it would be plain to see. He is in the news most every day. Everyone knows about him.
Let not yourself deceive you.
But, is your salvation contingent on you correctly seeing who the man of lawlessness is? No. Because if it was yes then your salvation would be based on works.
I Disagree, one day is a thousand years, and a thousand years one day
God's word below, clearly teaches that there is no literal time in the Lords spiritual realm.
2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
God's word below, clearly teaches that there is no literal time in the Lords spiritual realm.
2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
S
Yes, and he was quoting Psalms 90:4
A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.
Which simply means that a thousand years is nothing in the eternal scope of things. It was never meant to be interpreted as a way of counting days into millennials for eschatological charts.
A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.
Which simply means that a thousand years is nothing in the eternal scope of things. It was never meant to be interpreted as a way of counting days into millennials for eschatological charts.
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Hey!
If by "the coming of the Lord" you are referring to when He descends to the earth to end the age, then agree. However, I personally believe that believers in the church will be removed from the earth prior to the revealing of the antichrist, being gathered by the Lord prior to that event. And that because the first seal rider on the white horse, which represents the revealing of the antichrist, is what initiates God's wrath, with the Lamb/Jesus as the One who is opening the seals, which leads into the trumpets and bowl judgments. And since those who believe in Christ are not appointed to suffer God's wrath, then we must be removed prior to opening of the first seal.
This is also supported by the fact that, the Holy Spirit is the One who is now holding back the full force of sin and the man of sin from being revealed. At some point, He will be taken out of the way and then that man of sin will be revealed, which means that since the Spirit indwells all believers within the church, then we must also be removed.
Based on this, I truly believe that we will never see the antichrist, but will be revealed after the church has been gathered.
If by "the coming of the Lord" you are referring to when He descends to the earth to end the age, then agree. However, I personally believe that believers in the church will be removed from the earth prior to the revealing of the antichrist, being gathered by the Lord prior to that event. And that because the first seal rider on the white horse, which represents the revealing of the antichrist, is what initiates God's wrath, with the Lamb/Jesus as the One who is opening the seals, which leads into the trumpets and bowl judgments. And since those who believe in Christ are not appointed to suffer God's wrath, then we must be removed prior to opening of the first seal.
This is also supported by the fact that, the Holy Spirit is the One who is now holding back the full force of sin and the man of sin from being revealed. At some point, He will be taken out of the way and then that man of sin will be revealed, which means that since the Spirit indwells all believers within the church, then we must also be removed.
Based on this, I truly believe that we will never see the antichrist, but will be revealed after the church has been gathered.
It *includes* that, for sure (that's the "BLESSING" aspect--the "SUN of righteousness ARISE" and "reign... GLORIOUSLY"/FULL LIGHT OF DAY aspect);
but it is preceded by [and INCLUDES ALSO] the "JUDGMENTs" aspect (aka the "IN THE NIGHT"/"DARK"/"DARKNESS"[/"NIGHT WATCHES"] aspect OF IT...
It "so ARRIVES [its ARRIVAL is] as a thief IN THE NIGHT" at the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3]" with MANY MORE "birth PANGS [PLURAL, that Jesus spoke of]" which follow on from that INITIAL one--this is how birth pangs work; it is not "one and done" when it comes to the birth pangs--these are the JUDGMENTS UNFOLDING, during the IN THE NIGHT aspect of the DOTL time-period--i.e. the 7 years [SEALS, Trumpets, Vials] of judgments unfolding upon the earth PRIOR TO and LEADING UP TO the "BLESSED" aspect [the MK / 1000 yrs]).
The DOTL time-period includes BOTH ASPECTS. (see again 1Th5:2-3 [INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]"] re: its ARRIVAL)
but it is preceded by [and INCLUDES ALSO] the "JUDGMENTs" aspect (aka the "IN THE NIGHT"/"DARK"/"DARKNESS"[/"NIGHT WATCHES"] aspect OF IT...
It "so ARRIVES [its ARRIVAL is] as a thief IN THE NIGHT" at the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3]" with MANY MORE "birth PANGS [PLURAL, that Jesus spoke of]" which follow on from that INITIAL one--this is how birth pangs work; it is not "one and done" when it comes to the birth pangs--these are the JUDGMENTS UNFOLDING, during the IN THE NIGHT aspect of the DOTL time-period--i.e. the 7 years [SEALS, Trumpets, Vials] of judgments unfolding upon the earth PRIOR TO and LEADING UP TO the "BLESSED" aspect [the MK / 1000 yrs]).
The DOTL time-period includes BOTH ASPECTS. (see again 1Th5:2-3 [INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]"] re: its ARRIVAL)
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"The beginning of birth PANGS" are the "SEALS" of Rev6.
And (in view of that ^ ) Rev1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1 is making the point that the "future" aspects of that Book (Rev) are "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" [the 7 yrs]
(NOT things which would transpire over the course of some 2000 yrs; IN CONTRAST to "the things WHICH ARE" [chpts 2-3] which are things NOT said "must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]"); i.e. the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time-period 1:1 speaks of (which STARTS when Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" [Isa3:13, Rev5:6; Lam2:3-4 (<--parallel the wording of 2Th2:7b-8a)] by His opening the FIRST SEAL [Matt24:4 / Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE' ['a certain one' bringing deception]"--aka the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3] Paul spoke of in both this passage AND 2Th2:3,8a,9a (parallel Dan9:27a[26b] "FOR ONE WEEK [7 yrs]")--ALL of these (being the SAME ITEM & point in time) at the START of the SEVEN YEARS, not at its MIDDLE, nor at its END]);
... it is DURING those seven years [future to "our Rapture"] that Matt24:14 / 26:13 will be being preached: "THIS gospel of the KINGDOM" will be going out THEN,
... which is the same thing as "the INVITATION" TO "the wedding FEAST / SUPPER [/ FESTIVITIES; aka the EARTHLY MK age]" and THAT PARTICULAR "invitation" is not what is going out NOW (WE are asking ppl to be a part of the "MARRIAGE" itself, as "BRIDE / WIFE [SINGULAR]"... who is not "the GUESTS [PLURAL]," nor the "10 Virgins/Bridesmaids [PLURAL]," nor the particular "Servants/Attendants [PLURAL]" of that particular, future, specific, LIMITED time-period [the 7-yr trib] leading UP TO the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age, commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth ("when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" [Lk12:36-37], THEN the meal [G347... used also in various other texts, as well as this one--same thing.])
Thus, EVERYTHING in Matt24 (onward two chpts) is FOLLOWING "our Rapture"... and we see this is CONSISTENT with what the "24 elders" say in Rev5:9 (BEFORE the FIRST SEAL is opened), "hast redeemed US" (where in this scene they are wearing "stephanon/crowns" [see Paul's reference to "IN THAT DAY" regarding this "awarded" crown] and are seated on "THRONES"); and is consistent also with the point Paul is making in 2Th2:3-9 (esp.2-3) "that day [the one referred to in v.2! (NOT the split-second EVENT of v.1!) will not be present if not shall have come THE DEPARTURE *FIRST*..." [ONE THING *FIRST* b/f that time-period can "be present" to unfold upon the earth, and that is, the EVENT he'd ALREADY MENTIONED in verse 1! (OUR DEPARTURE / RAPTURE)] *and* [distinctly!] the man of sin BE REVEALED..." (the man of sin will "be revealed" at the START of the 7 yrs, NOT at its MIDDLE and NOT at its END--consistent with ALL of the related passages regarding that future, specific, LIMITED time-period we call "the 7-yr trib")
There is more than one "harvest" in both nature and in Scripture: I've already pointed out the TWO distinct mentions of "firstfruit" in Lev23, where the language of Rev14:4 (re: the 144,000) parallels the SECOND of these TWO mentions of "firstfruit" in Lev23, where v.17 says, "TWO loaves" and "baken WITH LEAVEN" (<--that ain't US).
James 1:18 also says, "a KIND of firstfruit / A CERTAIN firstfruit" (also making the same point, there is MORE THAN ONE kind).
These passages are NOT speaking of "our Rapture," but of the point in time of His "RETURN" to the earth [/Second Coming TO THE EARTH, FOR the EARTHLY MK age, where these folks will still be located [as still-living persons at the time of His "RETURN" to the earth--they will be involved with this "separation judgment" [same as Matt25:31-34, etc]). Same time-slot as Lk12:36-37 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" (i.e. as an ALREADY-WED Bridegroom... not TO BE wed, at that point)
We AGREE (we ALL AGREE) He "RETURNS" [to the earth] AFTER the trib / POST-trib. But Matt24:29-31 corresponds with Isa27:12-13 (the believing remnant of Israel being gathered "ONE by ONE" to "worship the Lord in the holy mount, AT JERUSALEM"; and Matt25:31-34 is "all the nations" gathered before Him [which is NOT "IN THE AIR" either!!]--This is NOT "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" going to "the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR / our episynagoges UNTO HIM" there<--b/c "all the nations" is not who goes up / is SNATCHED AWAY at the time of "our Rapture" [our Rapture (gathering-action) "AS ONE"--completely distinct from the manner in which Matt24:29-31/Isa27:12-13's "gather together" will occur "ONE by ONE" to one location ON THE EARTH]).
It is because you are getting a couple of the SEQUENCE issues messed up (and particularly "what happens when, in relation to what other item" in 2Th2 involving "our Rapture"), that you are failing to see that EVERYTHING in Matt24 is speaking of events FOLLOWING "our Rapture" (Jesus is NOT covering the Subject of "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" ANYWHERE in His Olivet Discourse... Up to the time He spoke His Olivet Discourse [including throughout His entire response there], He had NOT YET spoken ANYTHING regarding "our Rapture".)
Boiled down: "the beginning of birth PANGS [Matt24:4-8 / Mk13:5-8 / Lk21:8-11 ; 1Th5:2-3]" ARE the "SEALS" of Rev6, ALL of which take place in the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time-period (the 7 yrs) and ALL FOLLOWING "our Rapture" (which must take place *FIRST* ... and as all of the related passages consistently present as being the case).
"Rapture" pertains SOLELY TO "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [(Eph1:20-23 WHEN [as to its existence])... ALL those saved "in this present age [singular]" (aka "the BRIDE/WIFE [SINGULAR]" pertaining to "the MARRIAGE" itself)], NOT to all other saints of all OTHER time-periods: not to OT saints, not to Trib saints, not the MK saints. So this is a matter of CHRONOLOGY (meaning, WHEN ppl come to faith--OT times, "IN this present age [singular]," or IN/DURING the Trib yrs... There is a DISTINCTION between "the Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]" and the "GUESTS [PLURAL]," for example... [having come to faith at DISTINCT time-periods in the overall chronology]).
And (in view of that ^ ) Rev1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1 is making the point that the "future" aspects of that Book (Rev) are "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" [the 7 yrs]
(NOT things which would transpire over the course of some 2000 yrs; IN CONTRAST to "the things WHICH ARE" [chpts 2-3] which are things NOT said "must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]"); i.e. the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time-period 1:1 speaks of (which STARTS when Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" [Isa3:13, Rev5:6; Lam2:3-4 (<--parallel the wording of 2Th2:7b-8a)] by His opening the FIRST SEAL [Matt24:4 / Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE' ['a certain one' bringing deception]"--aka the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3] Paul spoke of in both this passage AND 2Th2:3,8a,9a (parallel Dan9:27a[26b] "FOR ONE WEEK [7 yrs]")--ALL of these (being the SAME ITEM & point in time) at the START of the SEVEN YEARS, not at its MIDDLE, nor at its END]);
... it is DURING those seven years [future to "our Rapture"] that Matt24:14 / 26:13 will be being preached: "THIS gospel of the KINGDOM" will be going out THEN,
... which is the same thing as "the INVITATION" TO "the wedding FEAST / SUPPER [/ FESTIVITIES; aka the EARTHLY MK age]" and THAT PARTICULAR "invitation" is not what is going out NOW (WE are asking ppl to be a part of the "MARRIAGE" itself, as "BRIDE / WIFE [SINGULAR]"... who is not "the GUESTS [PLURAL]," nor the "10 Virgins/Bridesmaids [PLURAL]," nor the particular "Servants/Attendants [PLURAL]" of that particular, future, specific, LIMITED time-period [the 7-yr trib] leading UP TO the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age, commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth ("when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" [Lk12:36-37], THEN the meal [G347... used also in various other texts, as well as this one--same thing.])
Thus, EVERYTHING in Matt24 (onward two chpts) is FOLLOWING "our Rapture"... and we see this is CONSISTENT with what the "24 elders" say in Rev5:9 (BEFORE the FIRST SEAL is opened), "hast redeemed US" (where in this scene they are wearing "stephanon/crowns" [see Paul's reference to "IN THAT DAY" regarding this "awarded" crown] and are seated on "THRONES"); and is consistent also with the point Paul is making in 2Th2:3-9 (esp.2-3) "that day [the one referred to in v.2! (NOT the split-second EVENT of v.1!) will not be present if not shall have come THE DEPARTURE *FIRST*..." [ONE THING *FIRST* b/f that time-period can "be present" to unfold upon the earth, and that is, the EVENT he'd ALREADY MENTIONED in verse 1! (OUR DEPARTURE / RAPTURE)] *and* [distinctly!] the man of sin BE REVEALED..." (the man of sin will "be revealed" at the START of the 7 yrs, NOT at its MIDDLE and NOT at its END--consistent with ALL of the related passages regarding that future, specific, LIMITED time-period we call "the 7-yr trib")
There is more than one "harvest" in both nature and in Scripture: I've already pointed out the TWO distinct mentions of "firstfruit" in Lev23, where the language of Rev14:4 (re: the 144,000) parallels the SECOND of these TWO mentions of "firstfruit" in Lev23, where v.17 says, "TWO loaves" and "baken WITH LEAVEN" (<--that ain't US).
James 1:18 also says, "a KIND of firstfruit / A CERTAIN firstfruit" (also making the same point, there is MORE THAN ONE kind).
These passages are NOT speaking of "our Rapture," but of the point in time of His "RETURN" to the earth [/Second Coming TO THE EARTH, FOR the EARTHLY MK age, where these folks will still be located [as still-living persons at the time of His "RETURN" to the earth--they will be involved with this "separation judgment" [same as Matt25:31-34, etc]). Same time-slot as Lk12:36-37 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" (i.e. as an ALREADY-WED Bridegroom... not TO BE wed, at that point)
We AGREE (we ALL AGREE) He "RETURNS" [to the earth] AFTER the trib / POST-trib. But Matt24:29-31 corresponds with Isa27:12-13 (the believing remnant of Israel being gathered "ONE by ONE" to "worship the Lord in the holy mount, AT JERUSALEM"; and Matt25:31-34 is "all the nations" gathered before Him [which is NOT "IN THE AIR" either!!]--This is NOT "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" going to "the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR / our episynagoges UNTO HIM" there<--b/c "all the nations" is not who goes up / is SNATCHED AWAY at the time of "our Rapture" [our Rapture (gathering-action) "AS ONE"--completely distinct from the manner in which Matt24:29-31/Isa27:12-13's "gather together" will occur "ONE by ONE" to one location ON THE EARTH]).
It is because you are getting a couple of the SEQUENCE issues messed up (and particularly "what happens when, in relation to what other item" in 2Th2 involving "our Rapture"), that you are failing to see that EVERYTHING in Matt24 is speaking of events FOLLOWING "our Rapture" (Jesus is NOT covering the Subject of "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" ANYWHERE in His Olivet Discourse... Up to the time He spoke His Olivet Discourse [including throughout His entire response there], He had NOT YET spoken ANYTHING regarding "our Rapture".)
Boiled down: "the beginning of birth PANGS [Matt24:4-8 / Mk13:5-8 / Lk21:8-11 ; 1Th5:2-3]" ARE the "SEALS" of Rev6, ALL of which take place in the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time-period (the 7 yrs) and ALL FOLLOWING "our Rapture" (which must take place *FIRST* ... and as all of the related passages consistently present as being the case).
"Rapture" pertains SOLELY TO "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [(Eph1:20-23 WHEN [as to its existence])... ALL those saved "in this present age [singular]" (aka "the BRIDE/WIFE [SINGULAR]" pertaining to "the MARRIAGE" itself)], NOT to all other saints of all OTHER time-periods: not to OT saints, not to Trib saints, not the MK saints. So this is a matter of CHRONOLOGY (meaning, WHEN ppl come to faith--OT times, "IN this present age [singular]," or IN/DURING the Trib yrs... There is a DISTINCTION between "the Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]" and the "GUESTS [PLURAL]," for example... [having come to faith at DISTINCT time-periods in the overall chronology]).
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S
Peter. Peter was quoting Psalms 90:4 People sometimes quote Peter like they did not realize Peter was quoting Psalms. And if one reads Psalms 90:4 it should make it clear to them that Peter was not dropping some new way of interpreting prophetic timelines or other things like the 7 days of creation.
He comes in the clouds with great power and glory and every eye shall see Him.
I wish folks would discern that there is tribulation. "in the world you will have tribulation" there is the great tribulation when the world will be a perilous place for us to be. And then there is the wrath of God, God's judgements upon an unrepentant world.
These things are quite different. Tribulation takes place before the Lord returns, wrath comes after the church is removed and Israel is protected in their homeland.
I wish folks would discern that there is tribulation. "in the world you will have tribulation" there is the great tribulation when the world will be a perilous place for us to be. And then there is the wrath of God, God's judgements upon an unrepentant world.
These things are quite different. Tribulation takes place before the Lord returns, wrath comes after the church is removed and Israel is protected in their homeland.