The key to the Pre-Trib Rapture:

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Evmur

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He didnt quote any scripture, giving book, chapter, verse

It appears to me he made a statement that could mean anything?

However I agree with your analyses on psalm 90:4 being an answer to the literalist claims in Rev 20:4-6

Quote Evmur: The day of the Lord is 1,000 years
The reason why it is important is because the day of judgement comes after the 1, 000 years ... that's when you get all the loud bangs and fiery fervent heat etc.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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^ [Re: "wrath"], if you are speaking of the "7 Vials," Rev15:1 says of these, "for IN THEM the wrath of God IS COMPLETED [G5055]"; not "is initiated AND completed" (similarly to how that exact word, G5055, used in Rev10:7, also doesn't mean the Subject matter being spoken of in THAT context speaks of "initiated AND completed," either).


Having already posted about "the Day of the Lord's" ARRIVAL point in time (which Paul refers to [1Th5:2-3, "birth PANG [SINGULAR]"], corresponding to Jesus' own words re: "birth PANGS," parallel the SEALS), the following passage only serves to confirm what I've been presenting (rather than what you are presenting, above in your post #180):

"Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it." Isaiah 13:9 Clear enough, considering the various other points I've made about the "DARK"/"DARKNESS"/"IN THE NIGHT" time-period
[this "DARK" aspect OF the DOTL time-period does not consist merely of "a singular 24-hr day," but includes the ENTIRE 7-yr trib yrs]...



I've already presented the correlations between SEAL #2 Wars, with that of the "wrath" words in Ezek38:18-19 [39:7] and how this parallels what Joseph said/did in the SECOND YEAR of his "seven year famine" [Gen45:1,6 (46:2; Dan7:7 and others)]... as well as the parallel wording between 2Th2:7b-8a (at the START of the 7 trib yrs [i.e. SEAL #1]) and the wording of Lam2:3-4 (<--context here also amidst "wrath" words)...

...and that there was already "wrath" having occurred in the 70ad events (per Lk21:23,20 and its parallel in the wording of Matt22:7 "when the king heard thereof, he was WROTH...sent forth his armies... and burned up their city" [same thing Jesus had said ON Palm Sunday--the conclusion of the 69 weeks total--in His words that day, in Lk19:41-44 (re: "the city" / "Jerusalem"--the very Subject of the prophecy about "70 Weeks ARE DETERMINED UPON thy [Daniel's] people, AND UPON thy [Daniel's] holy city" Dan9:24, etc])...

...much more could be said... but this is enough for now...
 

cv5

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"The beginning of birth PANGS" are the "SEALS" of Rev6.

And (in view of that ^ ) Rev1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1 is making the point that the "future" aspects of that Book (Rev) are "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" [the 7 yrs]

(NOT things which would transpire over the course of some 2000 yrs; IN CONTRAST to "the things WHICH ARE" [chpts 2-3] which are things NOT said "must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]"); i.e. the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time-period 1:1 speaks of (which STARTS when Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" [Isa3:13, Rev5:6; Lam2:3-4 (<--parallel the wording of 2Th2:7b-8a)] by His opening the FIRST SEAL [Matt24:4 / Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE' ['a certain one' bringing deception]"--aka the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3] Paul spoke of in both this passage AND 2Th2:3,8a,9a (parallel Dan9:27a[26b] "FOR ONE WEEK [7 yrs]")--ALL of these (being the SAME ITEM & point in time) at the START of the SEVEN YEARS, not at its MIDDLE, nor at its END]);

... it is DURING those seven years [future to "our Rapture"] that Matt24:14 / 26:13 will be being preached: "THIS gospel of the KINGDOM" will be going out THEN,

... which is the same thing as "the INVITATION" TO "the wedding FEAST / SUPPER [/ FESTIVITIES; aka the EARTHLY MK age]" and THAT PARTICULAR "invitation" is not what is going out NOW (WE are asking ppl to be a part of the "MARRIAGE" itself, as "BRIDE / WIFE [SINGULAR]"... who is not "the GUESTS [PLURAL]," nor the "10 Virgins/Bridesmaids [PLURAL]," nor the particular "Servants/Attendants [PLURAL]" of that particular, future, specific, LIMITED time-period [the 7-yr trib] leading UP TO the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age, commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth ("when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" [Lk12:36-37], THEN the meal [G347... used also in various other texts, as well as this one--same thing.])

Thus, EVERYTHING in Matt24 (onward two chpts) is FOLLOWING "our Rapture"... and we see this is CONSISTENT with what the "24 elders" say in Rev5:9 (BEFORE the FIRST SEAL is opened), "hast redeemed US" (where in this scene they are wearing "stephanon/crowns" [see Paul's reference to "IN THAT DAY" regarding this "awarded" crown] and are seated on "THRONES"); and is consistent also with the point Paul is making in 2Th2:3-9 (esp.2-3) "that day [the one referred to in v.2! (NOT the split-second EVENT of v.1!) will not be present if not shall have come THE DEPARTURE *FIRST*..." [ONE THING *FIRST* b/f that time-period can "be present" to unfold upon the earth, and that is, the EVENT he'd ALREADY MENTIONED in verse 1! (OUR DEPARTURE / RAPTURE)] *and* [distinctly!] the man of sin BE REVEALED..." (the man of sin will "be revealed" at the START of the 7 yrs, NOT at its MIDDLE and NOT at its END--consistent with ALL of the related passages regarding that future, specific, LIMITED time-period we call "the 7-yr trib")



There is more than one "harvest" in both nature and in Scripture: I've already pointed out the TWO distinct mentions of "firstfruit" in Lev23, where the language of Rev14:4 (re: the 144,000) parallels the SECOND of these TWO mentions of "firstfruit" in Lev23, where v.17 says, "TWO loaves" and "baken WITH LEAVEN" (<--that ain't US).

James 1:18 also says, "a KIND of firstfruit / A CERTAIN firstfruit" (also making the same point, there is MORE THAN ONE kind).



These passages are NOT speaking of "our Rapture," but of the point in time of His "RETURN" to the earth [/Second Coming TO THE EARTH, FOR the EARTHLY MK age, where these folks will still be located [as still-living persons at the time of His "RETURN" to the earth--they will be involved with this "separation judgment" [same as Matt25:31-34, etc]). Same time-slot as Lk12:36-37 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" (i.e. as an ALREADY-WED Bridegroom... not TO BE wed, at that point)



We AGREE (we ALL AGREE) He "RETURNS" [to the earth] AFTER the trib / POST-trib. But Matt24:29-31 corresponds with Isa27:12-13 (the believing remnant of Israel being gathered "ONE by ONE" to "worship the Lord in the holy mount, AT JERUSALEM"; and Matt25:31-34 is "all the nations" gathered before Him [which is NOT "IN THE AIR" either!!]--This is NOT "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" going to "the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR / our episynagoges UNTO HIM" there<--b/c "all the nations" is not who goes up / is SNATCHED AWAY at the time of "our Rapture" [our Rapture (gathering-action) "AS ONE"--completely distinct from the manner in which Matt24:29-31/Isa27:12-13's "gather together" will occur "ONE by ONE" to one location ON THE EARTH]).

It is because you are getting a couple of the SEQUENCE issues messed up (and particularly "what happens when, in relation to what other item" in 2Th2 involving "our Rapture"), that you are failing to see that EVERYTHING in Matt24 is speaking of events FOLLOWING "our Rapture" (Jesus is NOT covering the Subject of "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" ANYWHERE in His Olivet Discourse... Up to the time He spoke His Olivet Discourse [including throughout His entire response there], He had NOT YET spoken ANYTHING regarding "our Rapture".)


Boiled down: "the beginning of birth PANGS [Matt24:4-8 / Mk13:5-8 / Lk21:8-11 ; 1Th5:2-3]" ARE the "SEALS" of Rev6, ALL of which take place in the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time-period (the 7 yrs) and ALL FOLLOWING "our Rapture" (which must take place *FIRST* ... and as all of the related passages consistently present as being the case).



"Rapture" pertains SOLELY TO "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [(Eph1:20-23 WHEN [as to its existence])... ALL those saved "in this present age [singular]" (aka "the BRIDE/WIFE [SINGULAR]" pertaining to "the MARRIAGE" itself)], NOT to all other saints of all OTHER time-periods: not to OT saints, not to Trib saints, not the MK saints. So this is a matter of CHRONOLOGY (meaning, WHEN ppl come to faith--OT times, "IN this present age [singular]," or IN/DURING the Trib yrs... There is a DISTINCTION between "the Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]" and the "GUESTS [PLURAL]," for example... [having come to faith at DISTINCT time-periods in the overall chronology]).
For the life of me I cannot understand how anyone could possibly disagree with what you have posted. The pretrib Rapture position concatenates ALL of the Scriptures/Prophecies into a beautiful flawless mosaic with no missing pieces whatsoever. As you would expect from Scriptural truth written by the Finger of Almighty God.

Certainly the problem is not with Bible content. The problem is unbelief and human failures and ignorance. Many times willful ignorance I'm afraid.

That is some beautiful exegesis BTW.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Yes, and he was quoting Psalms 90:4
A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.
Which simply means that a thousand years is nothing in the eternal scope of things. It was never meant to be interpreted as a way of counting days into millennials for eschatological charts.
However, there *is* biblical precedent for grasping certain contexts using the word "day / days" as being "1000 yrs" instead, namely (and very briefly):

--Hosea 5:14-6:3, where the context is "Israel" and what is said regarding them: "I will go and return to My place, TILL"... (like in Micah 5:3)...[speaking of, "from the time of His ascension"]... and "therefore I will give them up UNTIL"... "IN their affliction they WILL seek Me early"... "after TWO DAYS"... "IN the THIRD DAY" (not speaking of two and the third "24-hr days" kind, here); and...

--Exodus 31:13,17 "For it [the Sabbath (seventh day)] is A SIGN between Me and the children of Israel for ever" (this, in view of Hebrews 4:9's "there remaineth therefore a sabbatismos for the people of God"). And I did address the "watches of the night" issue [both "3 watches" and "4 watches" existed in their day], in a past post (spoken of alongside this, in Ps.90, as you said).



Since I've made abundant past posts on these issues, I won't elaborate here in this post (and few ppl read long posts, I realize. = ) )
 

Truth7t7

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The reason why it is important is because the day of judgement comes after the 1, 000 years ... that's when you get all the loud bangs and fiery fervent heat etc.
I fully agree if you mean "symbolic" 1,000 years is taking place in the Lords Spiritual, but it isnt a "Literal" 1,000 years?
 

cv5

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The reason why it is important is because the day of judgement comes after the 1, 000 years ... that's when you get all the loud bangs and fiery fervent heat etc.
Can I ask what Church you attend? Any peculiar denomination?
 

Truth7t7

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He comes in the clouds with great power and glory and every eye shall see Him.

I wish folks would discern that there is tribulation. "in the world you will have tribulation" there is the great tribulation when the world will be a perilous place for us to be. And then there is the wrath of God, God's judgements upon an unrepentant world.

These things are quite different. Tribulation takes place before the Lord returns, wrath comes after the church is removed and Israel is protected in their homeland.
Please explain with scripture, how Israel is protected in their homeland "After" Gods wrath in fire, and the church has been removed?

On this earth, or in the new heaven and earth?

Who is this Israel, ethnic Jews?
 

Runningman

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The reason why it is important is because the day of judgement comes after the 1, 000 years ... that's when you get all the loud bangs and fiery fervent heat etc.
I tend to agree with this the most, but it's complicated because now we're getting into the millennial kingdom (MK) discussion (sometimes turns into a debate).

During this period of 1,000 years the devil is bound up. Ok, so he won't be running around looking for people to devour like a lion. That means we're free from all demonic influence then, right?

So outside of demonic influence, what other sources of sin are there? Corrupted flesh.

But where I'm confused is if the MK is post-rapture, post first resurrection, and we have been "changed" then after this 1,000 year period Satan is unbound and comes back to deceive the nations. Can we be deceived again post-rapture?

so I guess my question is, if all of wicked got hit like a flood in the days of Noah at the return of Christ then the remaining people are Christians who were raptured and changed to an incorruptible body.

having said all this, I'm boiling down to these questions: is the MK a literal kingdom on our Earth? Will there be flesh and blood people in the MK alongside resurrected saints with glorified bodies? Or is the MK entirely spiritual occuring somewhere else that is not Earth?

Verses of interest: Revelation 16:17-21 (Seventh bowl of wrath)

before the MK is even mentioned God apparently levels the earth flat. So if the MK is earth then are they reigning for 1,000 years among ruins of the destroyed "great city?"
 

Absolutely

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He comes in the clouds with great power and glory and every eye shall see Him.

I wish folks would discern that there is tribulation. "in the world you will have tribulation" there is the great tribulation when the world will be a perilous place for us to be. And then there is the wrath of God, God's judgements upon an unrepentant world.

These things are quite different. Tribulation takes place before the Lord returns, wrath comes after the church is removed and Israel is protected in their homeland.
You can not possibly connect the dots by ignoring the rapture verses.
You are looking at half the picture
 

Major

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Not one word in scripture you have posted, teaches John N. Darby's or Adulterer C.I. Scofields Pre-Trib Rapture, Not A One!

And you wont find one, because a Pre-Trib rapture is a man made fairy tale,that doesn't exist.
That is open for anyone's opinion. I think the Scriptures posted give just as much an explination of the Rapture as does the Scriptures that explain the Trinity.

Do you accept the doctrine of the Trinity???? You will also not find a single scripture that states that God is one being who exists as three persons.

That means to say that your idea that there is not one single scripture about a pre - tribulation rapture really has not basis for merit.

The bottom line is that we as Christians take into consideration the entirity of ALL the Scriptures not just one single verse.
 

Major

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No there is not a separate gathering of the church.

Any rapture verse you cite is in context of the second return of Christ and that happens only one time.
I thnink you are failing to grasp that the 1st Resurrection takes place in at least 4 phases stretching from the resurrection of Christ all the way to the resurrection of tribulation saints.
 

Runningman

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I thnink you are failing to grasp that the 1st Resurrection takes place in at least 4 phases stretching from the resurrection of Christ all the way to the resurrection of tribulation saints.
Are you referring to Matthew 27:51-53? If so then where are those individuals now?
 

Kolistus

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You are making good points. This all has to mesh somehow. So maybe the millennial kingdom is entirely misunderstood. It seems to take place on Earth at first glance, but it could possibly be symbolic or maybe it isn't chronological?

This single point of the MK is highly debatable because it has to fit in somehow and this is where amillenialism, premillennialism, and postmillennialism came from.

What's your take on it?
You are correct. Each system has its strengths and weaknesses.

I personally believe in premillennialism. Because if you start reading with no chapters and verses and just read from chapter 19 to 20: You start in chapter 19 where Jesus returns, the false prophet and the beast are thrown into the lake of fire, after which the devil is bound for a thousand years, the people who did not bow to the beast are resurrected and they rule and reign with Christ for a thousand years.

After this the devil is loosed again, and he deceives people to make war against the holy city and God's people, at which point fire will fall from heaven and consume them all.

After this the devil is thrown into the lake of fire where the beast and the false prophet ARE, and then there is the second resurrection, after which the new heaven and new earth.


Why I believe it goes like this? Because that is what I believe is the simplest, most plain reading of the text. This is what I imagine a person in the 1st century reading this book would take from it. The amillennialist interpretation requires so much twisting of the text, that I would be shocked if anyone came to that conclusion from simply reading the text.

I wrote a short critique of the amil. interpretation in THIS post: https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...e-pre-trib-rapture.198174/page-6#post-4522247
 

cv5

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You are correct. Each system has its strengths and weaknesses.

I personally believe in premillennialism. Because if you start reading with no chapters and verses and just read from chapter 19 to 20: You start in chapter 19 where Jesus returns, the false prophet and the beast are thrown into the lake of fire, after which the devil is bound for a thousand years, the people who did not bow to the beast are resurrected and they rule and reign with Christ for a thousand years.

After this the devil is loosed again, and he deceives people to make war against the holy city and God's people, at which point fire will fall from heaven and consume them all.

After this the devil is thrown into the lake of fire where the beast and the false prophet ARE, and then there is the second resurrection, after which the new heaven and new earth.


Why I believe it goes like this? Because that is what I believe is the simplest, most plain reading of the text. This is what I imagine a person in the 1st century reading this book would take from it. The amillennialist interpretation requires so much twisting of the text, that I would be shocked if anyone came to that conclusion from simply reading the text.

I wrote a short critique of the amil. interpretation in THIS post: https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...e-pre-trib-rapture.198174/page-6#post-4522247
Amillennialism forces one to ignore two thirds of the Bible. It is founded upon half a dozen misapprehended verses. Absolutely preposterous.
 

Truth7t7

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During this period of 1,000 years the devil is bound up. Ok, so he won't be running around looking for people to devour like a lion. That means we're free from all demonic influence then, right?
"Wrong"

This is the standard argument for those that support a literal Millennial Kingdom on this earth, as the answer and interpretation is given in Rev 20:7-8

1. You have clearly been shown, the Lord Jesus returns in fire and Final judgement, not a Millennial Kingdom on this earth.

2. You have clearly been shown the explanation that Rev 20:1-6 is in the Lords spiritual realm, Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ, 1,000 years is symbolic, not literal, No Kingdom On Earth, No Mortal Humans Seen.

3. You have clearly been shown with a complete explanation regarding (First Resurrection) as seen in Rev 20:4-6, there is one future "Time" of resurrection, "All" that are in the graves will come forth John 5:28-29, this takes place on the (Last Day) John 6:39-40, at the "Time" of the second coming, final judgement, John 12:48

John 5:28-29
1. (First) the resurrection to eternal life, the righteous are blessed to be in the (First) resurrection


2. (Second) the wicked to the resurrection of damnation in the Lake Of Fire, the (Second Death)

We will now cover (Deceive The Nations) in Rev 20:3 below

Satan is bound from one specific purpose (Deceive The Nations) this isnt general deception, or all evil on earth as many Millennialist falsely claim, its (Deceive The Nations) to the final battle as clearly interpreted in Rev 20:7-8 & Rev 16:12-15 below, just prior to the second coming.

(Scripture Interprets Itself, Before Your Eyes)

Revelation 20:3KJV
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

As is "Clearly Seen" (Deceive The Nations) is to battle, the seal and binding of Satan is seen in the 6th Vial, Rev 16:12 that must be poured out, then he is loosed to (Deceive The Nations)

Revelation 20:7-8KJV
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Rev 16:12-15 below, is a "Parallel" teaching of Rev 20:7-8, the 6th vial is poured out, Satan is loosed.

(The Deception) is devils going forth to the Kings of the Nations, to gather them to battle, the 6th vial below was the binding of Satan, from this one specific purpose (Deceive The Nations) to battle, as verse 15 is the (Second Coming)

Rev 16:12-15KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
 

Truth7t7

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That is open for anyone's opinion. I think the Scriptures posted give just as much an explination of the Rapture as does the Scriptures that explain the Trinity.

Do you accept the doctrine of the Trinity???? You will also not find a single scripture that states that God is one being who exists as three persons.

That means to say that your idea that there is not one single scripture about a pre - tribulation rapture really has not basis for merit.

The bottom line is that we as Christians take into consideration the entirity of ALL the Scriptures not just one single verse.
Just One Example:

The main scripture used by supporters of the Pre-Trib Rapture teaching is 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, this is nothing more than the (Second Coming) (Last Day) resurrection, not a Pre-Trib Rapture, Don't Be Deceived.

1. Is a resurrection of the believer seen in 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, 100% yes!

2. Does this resurrection take place on the (Last Day) as Jesus Christ taught below in John 6:39-40, 100% yes!

3. Is the (Last Day) the time of final judgement as Jesus Christ taught in John 12:48 below, 100% yes!

Many deny the truth of Gods words below, that are simple, clear, and very easy to understand.

(THE SECOND COMING, LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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^ [for the readers... to consider, in view of what is written in the above post, by T7t7 Post #195]

Satan will be "cast out unto the earth" and "his angels cast out with him" at the "5th Trumpet / 1st Woe unto the earth" time-slot (Rev12:12,[9],13,[17]; Rev8:13), and thus limited to that sphere, when 1260 days are yet remaining [i.e. at MID-trib]... which precedes the "6th Vial" point in time by a matter of SOME DURATION of TIME (for, even the "7th Trumpet / 3rd Woe / 1st Vial" precedes that "6th Vial," chronology-wise).

Grasping the "chronology" issues will be of great help to you, in understanding these passages and what takes place. (The "Amill-teachings" are notorious for disregarding chronology issues in the texts, sorry to say)
 

Truth7t7

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I personally believe in premillennialism. Because if you start reading with no chapters and verses and just read from chapter 19 to 20: You start in chapter 19 where Jesus returns, the false prophet and the beast are thrown into the lake of fire, after which the devil is bound for a thousand years, the people who did not bow to the beast are resurrected and they rule and reign with Christ for a thousand years.
That's your problem, you follow the false teaching that the book of Revelation is seen in (Chronological Order) it's not :)

The book of Revelation is seen in (Parallel Teachings) of the same events.

Just One Example Below:

Revelation 20:7-8KJV
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Rev 16:12-15 below, is a "Parallel" teaching of Rev 20:7-8, the 6th vial is poured out, Satan is loosed.

(The Deception) is devils going forth to the Kings of the Nations, to gather them to battle, the 6th vial below was the binding of Satan, from this one specific purpose (Deceive The Nations) to battle, as verse 15 is the (Second Coming)

Rev 16:12-15KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
 

Runningman

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"Wrong"

This is the standard argument for those that support a literal Millennial Kingdom on this earth, as the answer and interpretation is given in Rev 20:7-8

1. You have clearly been shown, the Lord Jesus returns in fire and Final judgement, not a Millennial Kingdom on this earth.

2. You have clearly been shown the explanation that Rev 20:1-6 is in the Lords spiritual realm, Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ, 1,000 years is symbolic, not literal, No Kingdom On Earth, No Mortal Humans Seen.

3. You have clearly been shown with a complete explanation regarding (First Resurrection) as seen in Rev 20:4-6, there is one future "Time" of resurrection, "All" that are in the graves will come forth John 5:28-29, this takes place on the (Last Day) John 6:39-40, at the "Time" of the second coming, final judgement, John 12:48

John 5:28-29
1. (First) the resurrection to eternal life, the righteous are blessed to be in the (First) resurrection


2. (Second) the wicked to the resurrection of damnation in the Lake Of Fire, the (Second Death)

We will now cover (Deceive The Nations) in Rev 20:3 below

Satan is bound from one specific purpose (Deceive The Nations) this isnt general deception, or all evil on earth as many Millennialist falsely claim, its (Deceive The Nations) to the final battle as clearly interpreted in Rev 20:7-8 & Rev 16:12-15 below, just prior to the second coming.

(Scripture Interprets Itself, Before Your Eyes)

Revelation 20:3KJV
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

As is "Clearly Seen" (Deceive The Nations) is to battle, the seal and binding of Satan is seen in the 6th Vial, Rev 16:12 that must be poured out, then he is loosed to (Deceive The Nations)

Revelation 20:7-8KJV
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Rev 16:12-15 below, is a "Parallel" teaching of Rev 20:7-8, the 6th vial is poured out, Satan is loosed.

(The Deception) is devils going forth to the Kings of the Nations, to gather them to battle, the 6th vial below was the binding of Satan, from this one specific purpose (Deceive The Nations) to battle, as verse 15 is the (Second Coming)

Rev 16:12-15KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Starting to make a lot more sense now. Thanks for the break down.

I think the disconnect I was having is that I couldn't decide if the MK was literal or spiritual. The evidence seems to conclusively weigh heavier in the direction of the MK being spiritual.

I guess we'll find out one way or another when we get there. 😅
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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^ [for the readers... to consider, in view of what is written in the above post, by T7t7 Post #195]

Satan will be "cast out unto the earth" and "his angels cast out with him" at the "5th Trumpet / 1st Woe unto the earth" time-slot (Rev12:12,[9],13,[17]; Rev8:13), and thus limited to that sphere, when 1260 days are yet remaining [i.e. at MID-trib]... which precedes the "6th Vial" point in time by a matter of SOME DURATION of TIME (for, even the "7th Trumpet / 3rd Woe / 1st Vial" precedes that "6th Vial," chronology-wise).

Grasping the "chronology" issues will be of great help to you, in understanding these passages and what takes place. (The "Amill-teachings" are notorious for disregarding chronology issues in the texts, sorry to say)
I was under the impression that 3rd woe/7th trumpet/casting down of Satan/empowering of the antichrist was the midpoint T/start of GT?

Rev 13:5,6
And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months.
Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven.