50 Reasons For a Pretribulational Rapture By Dr. John F. Walvoord

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Jul 23, 2018
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I've made many posts in the past, on this:

ALL "Son of man cometh / coming / shall come / coming of / etc" speak with regard to His Second Coming to the earth [Rev19] FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age... (NOT to "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" point in time)
He " comes" in the rapture.
He " comes" in the second coming


Both are " he comes".
You told me in another thread that the supper is on earth.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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We will have to disagree on that. 19-24 are airtight pretrib in my opinion.
Yes
We are both pretrib rapture.
Mat 25 depicts roughly half the believers stay for martyrdom.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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The finer point here is that the saints can't be present in the great tribulation if they are raptured out as you claim they will be.

The only possible solution is the Bible is right and pre-trib theology is misunderstanding it.
Of course there are saints.

Mat 25 depicts them vividly.

Only half the saints make the rapture.
Impossible to miss it.

Half get to do business with the ac.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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I am definitely worried that those who do not desire nor believe in the rapture will not participate in it. That's why I keep posting new threads maybe there's still hope....
That is part of my heart as well.

Only 1 or so in a hundred will even look at the rapture verses.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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The finer point here is that the saints can't be present in the great tribulation if they are raptured out as you claim they will be.

The only possible solution is the Bible is right and pre-trib theology is misunderstanding it.
How can they not be here for the trib????

It is Fact that the foolish are left behind. Virgin = saints...born again believers.

All left behind saints refusing the mark are murdered by the ac.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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The finer point here is that the saints can't be present in the great tribulation if they are raptured out as you claim they will be.

The only possible solution is the Bible is right and pre-trib theology is misunderstanding it.
But you do not know what we believe.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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I hope the post tribbers will finally recognize those very same keywords (more properly code words) in 1st and 2nd Thessalonians. Praying for them......
My exchange with him is over the " supper".

He seems to have changed his position.

I have to fight through all the underlines, colorcodes, strongs refs,brackets, and added fancy italics and punctuations.

Sometimes i totally miss his point and we do not connect.

This particular exchange is one of those.

Neither of us sees what the other is saying.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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Do you have Jesus returning twice?

Scriptures please.
What you are speaking are two separate events.

When the Lord comes to gather the church, He will ascend to the atmosphere 'only' and call up the dead and the living believers. Then in fulfillment of John 14:1-3, He will take the entire church back to the Father's house to those places that He prepared for us.

Following the gathering of the church, God's wrath will begin by that ruler, the antichrist establishing his seven year covenant in part with Israel. It is during this time also when the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will be taking place throughout the entire period.

What everyone seems to ignore and/or take into consideration is that, because God's wrath has already been satisfied by Jesus, then God's wrath no longer rests upon believers. Anyone who believes and teaches that the church is going to be on the earth during the time of His wrath, has no understanding of the severity of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. This world will be no place to live, even if God was to protect the church. It's going to be a chaotic mess! You're gonna have demonic beings coming up out of the Abyss tormenting people with the stings like that of a scorpion, which will last for five months. You're going to have a third of the earth and trees burned up, a third of the rivers and fresh water contaminated and killing many. Four fallen angels and their demonic army of 200 million, are going to kill a third of the earth inhabitants. That's just a few plagues of wrath off the top of my head and you think that the Lord is going to leave His church here during that time? It makes more spiritual sense for the Lord to remove His church from the earth, opposed to working His wrath around them.
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
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mywebsite.us
Okay, let me see if I "get" your viewpoint:
I believe that Daniel 9 is about Israel and Jerusalem. With [only] one unlikely-but-possible exception, no part of it is about anything "future" beyond the end of the 'Times of the Jews'.

For more insight - and, to save me some typing - please read:

http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Seventy_Weeks.html

I believe Daniel 11:31 is referring to the 'event' of 167 B.C.

I believe Daniel 12:11 is a reference to Daniel 11:31.

I believe Matthew 24:15 / Mark 13:14 is referring to the 'event' of 70 A.D. - but, making reference to the 'event' of 167 B.C.

I believe the verses from each account that are grouped together on each row of the main chart on this web page came from the same words spoken during the Olivet Discourse and refer to the same exact thing:

http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Olivet_Discourse.html

The small chart below the main chart shows what I believe to be the chronological order by row number.

(to be continued...)
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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My exchange with him is over the " supper".

He seems to have changed his position.

I have to fight through all the underlines, colorcodes, strongs refs,brackets, and added fancy italics and punctuations.

Sometimes i totally miss his point and we do not connect.

This particular exchange is one of those.

Neither of us sees what the other is saying.
Yup it was rough at first. I finally got a handle on it. When you do it is clear and extraordinary...
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
9,793
4,298
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mywebsite.us
I've made many posts in the past, on this:

ALL "Son of man cometh / coming / shall come / coming of / etc" speak with regard to His Second Coming to the earth [Rev19] FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age... (NOT to "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" point in time)
Please take a look at this web page:

http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Second_Coming.html

Every one of the verses in the chart are about the same 'event'.

There will not be a "third" coming of Christ.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,573
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50 Reasons... that's impressive.

88 reasons would have been more impressive, but hey, nobody's perfect. :LOL:
If you're feeling your oats go ahead and cough up 50 reasons supporting your view. Or 88 for that matter
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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If you're feeling your oats go ahead and cough up 50 reasons supporting your view. Or 88 for that matter
My view is that some people can't take a joke, but there is only one reason for it.