No MAN has SEEN God at ANY time

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Jun 24, 2010
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#81
To sinners, Jesus Christ is the Lamb of God, our Saviour and our Redeemer that takes away the sin of the world, but to His servants and disciples that have been saved by grace through the blood of the Lamb, He is Lord and Master and our only one and true God, of whom all things were made in heaven and earth and by whom all things consist and in whom all the fulness dwells (Col 1:14-20).
 
Mar 11, 2009
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#82
Peace be to you

We have always preached God was not Flesh but spirit.num 22-

God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."Jesus christ"

1st john,
Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Jesus christ;
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. (clickable links)

This is Why Jesus Came-----------^



The most high God bruised Jesus to become our high priest,
For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death;because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

If Jesus christ was standing infront of you and said, I said, I am the Son of God.You can believe he is.,john 10,36-

If the apostales stood infront of you and said "we believe and are sure that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God."Be assured we do believe and are sure he is;)

For Jesus received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.2nd peter 1.If God said Jesus was his Son you can believe he is

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Love a friend in God
in Jesus name
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#83
mini math and Bible lesson

If A = B, and B = C, then A = C.

If Jesus = Lord/YHWH, and Lord/YHWH = personal name of God, then Jesus = GOD.

Matthew 13:51
Jesus said to them, “Have you understood all these things?” They said to Him, “Yes, Lord.”


Unless you believe that Jesus IS GOD then you can NOT worship JESUS without breaking this commandment:

Matthew 22:37
Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’


therefore the choices are

A. Jesus is God (In Heaven the Father, the Word and the Spirit ARE ONE, on Earth they agree as one. when/if you get to heaven you can ask God what that means)

B. Jesus is not God, and you chose not to worship Him

C. Jesus is not God the Father but is another God and you chose to worship two gods and break the above commandment.

D. other (please explain if you chose this one)
 
Dec 19, 2009
2,723
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#84
mini math and Bible lesson

If A = B, and B = C, then A = C.

If Jesus = Lord/YHWH, and Lord/YHWH = personal name of God, then Jesus = GOD.

Matthew 13:51
Jesus said to them, “Have you understood all these things?” They said to Him, “Yes, Lord.”

Unless you believe that Jesus IS GOD then you can NOT worship JESUS without breaking this commandment:

Matthew 22:37
Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’

therefore the choices are

A. Jesus is God (In Heaven the Father, the Word and the Spirit ARE ONE, on Earth they agree as one. when/if you get to heaven you can ask God what that means)

B. Jesus is not God, and you chose not to worship Him

C. Jesus is not God the Father but is another God and you chose to worship two gods and break the above commandment.

D. other (please explain if you chose this one)
Hi Anandya

I am suprised by your above post. You have in the past said that you believe a person is a Christian if they believe Jesus is the son of God but not God Himself.

Do you still believe that?

Could you clarify
Do you believe Jesus is God the Father?
 
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A

AnandaHya

Guest
#85
Hi Anandya

I am suprised by your above post. You have in the past said that you believe a person is a Christian if they believe Jesus is the son of God but not God Himself.

Do you still believe that?

Could you clarify
Do you believe Jesus is God the Father?
I don't judge people's salvation but I think it is wrong to confuse people and say that Jesus is not God and/or that you should worship more than one deity because that would be polytheism. I believe if people truly seek and accept Jesus as a their savior then the Holy Spirit will show them the truth and testify that Jesus is God, but if they instead continue in their self-righteous, human understanding of it, then it will not be revealed.

What will be the state upon that person upon judgement day? I don't know it is up to God but to if you worship God with your WHOLE heart, mind and spirit where is there room for any other deity? for the IN HEAVEN THREE ARE ONE, but on earth they only AGREE as one, if you can understand the difference between heaven and earth then perhaps it would make more sense. just as the difference between a historical narrative and a prophecy.

and no one answers the question. a b c or d?
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#86
I don't judge people's salvation but I think it is wrong to confuse people and say that Jesus is not God and/or that you should worship more than one deity because that would be polytheism.

I have already explained this on another thread.
I believe if people truly seek and accept Jesus as a their savior then the Holy Spirit will show them the truth and testify that Jesus is God, but if they instead continue in their self-righteous, human understanding of it, then it will not be revealed.

Some may say the above is a judgemental attitude concerning a person's heart and motives


What will be the state upon that person upon judgement day? I don't know it is up to God but to if you worship God with your WHOLE heart, mind and spirit where is there room for any other deity? for the IN HEAVEN THREE ARE ONE, but on earth they only AGREE as one, if you can understand the difference between heaven and earth then perhaps it would make more sense. just as the difference between a historical narrative and a prophecy.

and no one answers the question. a b c or d?
What will be the state of such a person on judgement day?

For me that is an easy question to answer

Jesus never commanded anyone to believe he was God Himself

Jesus never once said eternal life hinged on anyone believing he was God(the one true God)

No writer in the NT stated that a person had to believe Christ was God Himself to have eternal life

And no NT writer said the plain words

Christ is God Himself

I would be more concerned for those on Judgement day who have said that anyone simply believing Jesus is the son of God and not God cannot inherit eternal life

For what will they say if Christ asks them why in their heart they condemned one of his children for standing on what He continuously stated was the requirement of belief in him for a person to gain everlasting life?

BTW

You did not answer the question

Do you believe Jesus is God the Father?
 
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C

Crazy4GODword

Guest
#87
hmmm And God was made flesh? I have never come across this scripture?

I go by what john 1:14. says: And the WORD was made flesh.
But you miss John 1:1 which the word was God.
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#88
and by that statement you judge them as you say they judge you. who is right? neither. Only God In Heaven knows what will happen at Judgment day. We are told to keep His commandments which are written in the hearts of all believers. why waste so much time talking about this instead of the truly important issues?

Romans 12: 2 NKJY

"Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of GOD."

LBG let us just drop the subject, is anyone condemning you right now? are you being oppressed? does it affect your personal relationship with JESUS? Does it matter what everyone else thinks? Isn't it better to care what GOD thinks? Only God and you can understand the relationship between the two of you. who you pray to is your choice. if you wish to believe as you do then, that is your choice but when you start preaching your position it gets confusing for new believers.

it just troubles my soul, but in the end it is between you and God.

Psalm 19: 7-9, 14

"The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul; the Testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.
the statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart; the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eye;
the fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever; the judgements of hte Lord are true and righteous altogether.
let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in YOUR sight, O LORD, my strength and Redeemer."
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#89
Hi LBG , Devolution, wakeup

No one has ever seen God; the only God, who
is at the Father’s side, he has made him known
(John 1:18).


Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”
(John 20:28).
To them belong the patriarchs, and from their

race, according to the flesh, is the
Christ who is God over all , blessed forever. Amen (Rom. 9:5).



Have this mind among yourselves, which is


yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was




in the form of God , did not count equality with God a thing


to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the


form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men

(Phil. 2:5–7).





. . . waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing

of the glory of




our great God and Savior Jesus Christ




(Titus 2:13).



He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact

imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe
by the word of his power (Heb. 1:3).





But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is

forever and ever.” . . . And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation
of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens
are the work of your hands” (Heb. 1:8, 10).





Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,

To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing
with ours by the righteousness of






our God and Savior Jesus Christ (2 Pet. 1:1).


Jesus is fully God! to believe anything means that you do not believe 'IN' the Christ of Scripture but of man made ideologies therefore not Christian but Idolatrous! You are not reading scripture with open eyes but eyes that are bent on decieving! Subtle lies just like Satan in the garden of Eden, He subtly decieved!
Hi Phil

I went to a Baptist church last night. After the service I chatted to the minister. I told him I believed Jesus was the son of God but not God Himself. I told him that some, including a Baptist were saying on an internet chat site I could not inherit eternal life with that belief

He shook his head

Then he said we are supposed to believe in the Trinity where Father son and Holy Spirit are all God

So I asked him flat out

'Am I a Christian with my views on this subject

He replied

Do you believe Jesus is your saviour and that he died for your sins?

I told him I certainly do

He said

Do not get hung up about words, you are saved

That is two Baptist ministers I have now told my beliefs on this. They both believe I am saved.

I may visit some more Baptist churches in the future and ask their ministers the same question. But it does seem from what I have been told so far that many ministers in the Baptist denomination (if not the vast majority) do not share your views on this subject
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#90
and by that statement you judge them as you say they judge you. who is right? neither. Only God In Heaven knows what will happen at Judgment day. We are told to keep His commandments which are written in the hearts of all believers. why waste so much time talking about this instead of the truly important issues?

I have judged no-one Anandya, it is rather others who have judged me and people who think like I do

Romans 12: 2 NKJY

"Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of GOD."

LBG let us just drop the subject, is anyone condemning you right now? are you being oppressed? does it affect your personal relationship with JESUS? Does it matter what everyone else thinks? Isn't it better to care what GOD thinks? Only God and you can understand the relationship between the two of you. who you pray to is your choice. if you wish to believe as you do then, that is your choice but when you start preaching your position it gets confusing for new believers.

I think you will find the vast majority of my comments have been in response to others critical or condemning comments concerning me. I think a fairer commenbt would be the preaching has mainly been done to me.
I only replied with my latest post due to your comments, especially your saying that anyone who will not believe Christ is God is continuiing in self righteousness and human understanding.
Of course we know that it is what God thinks that matters, but we still all reply to the majority of posts meant for us, don 't we?

it just troubles my soul, but in the end it is between you and God.

I would say it should never trouble your soul if a person believes what Christ taught concerning how a person must see him to have eterrnal life, that is something to rejoice in


Psalm 19: 7-9, 14

"The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul; the Testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.
the statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart; the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eye;
the fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever; the judgements of hte Lord are true and righteous altogether.
let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in YOUR sight, O LORD, my strength and Redeemer."
Answers above
 
Feb 14, 2011
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#93
But you miss John 1:1 which the word was God.

If every one knew the mystery,then the scripture in luke 10:22 would not be true,it would be wrong. Its all in Gods hands,he could choose the poorest of the poor if he wants to,not for us to complain.
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#94
Luke 10:22 (New King James Version)

22 All[a] things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.”

2 Peter 1:2-8 (New King James Version)


2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Fruitful Growth in the Faith


5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#95
If every one knew the mystery,then the scripture in luke 10:22 would not be true,it would be wrong. Its all in Gods hands,he could choose the poorest of the poor if he wants to,not for us to complain.
The word itself is God's word, and Christ speaks the word of God.

The Lord said to me
'What they say is good. I will raise up from them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.
If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks IN MY NAME, I myself will call him to account
Deut 18:17-19
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#96
The word itself is God's word, and Christ speaks the word of God.

The Lord said to me
'What they say is good. I will raise up from them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.
If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks IN MY NAME, I myself will call him to account
Deut 18:17-19
Jesus answered

My teaching is not my own, It comes from him who sent me
John 7:16

I do nothing on my own, but speak just what the Father has taught me
John 8:28

These words you hear are not my own, they belong to the Father who sent me
John 14:24
 
S

Shwagga

Guest
#97
Exodus 33:20> And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

John 1:18> No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him.

John 5:37> And the Father Himself,which hath sent Me, had born witness of Me, ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His shape.


1 John 4:12> No man hath seen God at any time, if we love one another, God dwells in us, and His love His perfect in us

When Jesus was seen by over 500 witnesses,
after He was resurrected,
Did the witnesses see Him,
and see His face?
I noticed there many pages of comments, questions, etc. So I did not read through all of your posts or all of the posts on the entirety of the thread. So if you were asked these questions and would like to direct me to the post number which you addressed this I would appreciate that.

I am going to try to make a case that what you are doing is actually building the foundation FOR the Trinity (good job!) even though what you are doing is trying to ask "gotcha" questions. Sorry, it doesn't work like that. So I would like to quote these same scriptures back at you with a few more passages you may have overlooked and possibly, time permitting, you will be able to reply back. Okay..

You quoted from Exodus 33 and John 1:18, both texts which I will also refer to. You have a multitude of passages in the Old Testament (tanakh) which clearly state God can be seen and has been seen. The first text I will draw from is Genesis 32.

Genesis 32:31 (verse 30 in English-Christian translations)
יִּקְרָ֧א יַעֲקֹ֛ב שֵׁ֥ם הַמָּקֹ֖ום פְּנִיאֵ֑ל כִּֽי־רָאִ֤יתִי אֱלֹהִים֙ פָּנִ֣ים אֶל־פָּנִ֔ים וַתִּנָּצֵ֖ל נַפְשִֽׁי

"And Jacob called the name of the place peniel (face of God), for I have seen God face to face and my life (lit. soul) is preserved.

So, this is one of the clearest passages where Jacob has seen God. First it says it's a man, then it says it's God, and then it says it's an angel. Well, Jacob clearly believed he saw God. He named the place "peniel" which means face of God. Um, does that mean he saw God's face? He goes on to say why he says this by saying "ki ra'iti elohim panim el-panim", for I have seen God face to face (panim el-panim). Are we to believe this? Does this fit into our theology? Can we "allow the scriptures to speak" ?

Isaiah and Amos had similar encounters with God. Read the accounts in Isaiah 6 and Amos 9. They both say the same phrase "ראיתי את-אדני", ra'iti 'et 'adonai, I have seen my Lord. Trust me, Isaiah and Amos both knew the Torah, they knew Exodus 33 where it says "לֹֽא־ יִרְאַ֥נִי הָאָדָ֖ם וָחָֽי" lo yir'ani ha'adam vachai, no human can see me and live. So, Isaiah was ready to die! Isaiah continues on in chapter 6 verse 5 and says "אוי לי" oy li! Woe is me! He was prepared to die! But what happened? Neither Isaiah, Amos, Jacob, Moses, Ezekiel, (the list goes ) have died when they saw God.

John 1:18 makes it very explicit no man has ever seen the Father except the Son. So, what does this mean? How are we to understand these passages where God was clearly seen? Well, in light of a host of passages in the NT which declare the deity of ישוע܇/Yeshua/Jesus as the Son of God, who is God incarnate. We can understand all of these mysteries and more! Colossians 1:15 "He [The Son] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation." Amazing! So, yes it's true no one has seen God, the Father! But, they saw the Son. Anytime God was visible in the Old Testament or in the Person of Jesus, it was the Son of God!

That is the only thing that makes sense to me or we are stuck with the question, how can God be seen and yet unseen at the same time? Visible and yet invisible? Are only some passages in the Bible true? Or are they all true like 2nd Timothy 3:16 says "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God...." Consider why Paul and Peter both say " looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ" and "...by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: " (ref. Titus 2:13, 2 Peter 1:1.. How could they call Jesus our great God and Savior? (Isaiah 9:6 (9:5 in Hebrew/Jewish-English translations) says the child will be called "אל גבור /el gibor" - Mighty God. Psalm 45.. Etc, etc.. Think of how Thomas could say in John 20:28 "...my Lord and my God!" and instead of being rebuked Jesus blesses him and says "blessed are you..." Please consider this....

This is something that takes a while to understand and to fathom, but once you get it you really "get it!" it makes sense and it will bring a host of passages to light for you.

Psalm 119:18
גַּל־עֵינַ֥י וְאַבִּ֑יטָה נִ֝פְלָאֹ֗ות מִתֹּורָתֶֽךָ
gal-'einai v'abitah nifla'ot mitoratekha
Open my eyes that I may see terrific wonders from your torah [law, instructions]

Amen, let that prayer be true for all of us.

Blessings.
 
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Z

zackabba

Guest
#98
I noticed there many pages of comments, questions, etc. So I did not read through all of your posts or all of the posts on the entirety of the thread. So if you were asked these questions and would like to direct me to the post number which you addressed this I would appreciate that.

I am going to try to make a case that what you are doing is actually building the foundation FOR the Trinity (good job!) even though what you are doing is trying to ask "gotcha" questions. Sorry, it doesn't work like that. So I would like to quote these same scriptures back at you with a few more passages you may have overlooked and possibly, time permitting, you will be able to reply back. Okay..

You quoted from Exodus 33 and John 1:18, both texts which I will also refer to. You have a multitude of passages in the Old Testament (tanakh) which clearly state God can be seen and has been seen. The first text I will draw from is Genesis 32.

Genesis 32:31 (verse 30 in English-Christian translations)
יִּקְרָ֧א יַעֲקֹ֛ב שֵׁ֥ם הַמָּקֹ֖ום פְּנִיאֵ֑ל כִּֽי־רָאִ֤יתִי אֱלֹהִים֙ פָּנִ֣ים אֶל־פָּנִ֔ים וַתִּנָּצֵ֖ל נַפְשִֽׁי

"And Jacob called the name of the place peniel (face of God), for I have seen God face to face and my life (lit. soul) is preserved.

So, this is one of the clearest passages where Jacob has seen God. First it says it's a man, then it says it's God, and then it says it's an angel. Well, Jacob clearly believed he saw God. He named the place "peniel" which means face of God. Um, does that mean he saw God's face? He goes on to say why he says this by saying "ki ra'iti elohim panim el-panim", for I have seen God face to face (panim el-panim). Are we to believe this? Does this fit into our theology? Can we "allow the scriptures to speak" ?

Isaiah and Amos had similar encounters with God. Read the accounts in Isaiah 6 and Amos 9. They both say the same phrase "ראיתי את-אדני", ra'iti 'et 'adonai, I have seen my Lord. Trust me, Isaiah and Amos both knew the Torah, they knew Exodus 33 where it says "לֹֽא־ יִרְאַ֥נִי הָאָדָ֖ם וָחָֽי" lo yir'ani ha'adam vachai, no human can see me and live. So, Isaiah was ready to die! Isaiah continues on in chapter 6 verse 5 and says "אוי לי" oy li! Woe is me! He was prepared to die! But what happened? Neither Isaiah, Amos, Jacob, Moses, Ezekiel, (the list goes ) have died when they saw God.

John 1:18 makes it very explicit no man has ever seen the Father except the Son. So, what does this mean? How are we to understand these passages where God was clearly seen? Well, in light of a host of passages in the NT which declare the deity of ישוע܇/Yeshua/Jesus as the Son of God, who is God incarnate. We can understand all of these mysteries and more! Colossians 1:15 "He [The Son] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation." Amazing! So, yes it's true no one has seen God, the Father! But, they saw the Son. Anytime God was visible in the Old Testament or in the Person of Jesus, it was the Son of God!

That is the only thing that makes sense to me or we are stuck with the question, how can God be seen and yet unseen at the same time? Visible and yet invisible? Are only some passages in the Bible true? Or are they all true like 2nd Timothy 3:16 says "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God...." Consider why Paul and Peter both say " looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ" and "...by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: " (ref. Titus 2:13, 2 Peter 1:1.. How could they call Jesus our great God and Savior? (Isaiah 9:6 (9:5 in Hebrew/Jewish-English translations) says the child will be called "אל גבור /el gibor" - Mighty God. Psalm 45.. Etc, etc.. Think of how Thomas could say in John 20:28 "...my Lord and my God!" and instead of being rebuked Jesus blesses him and says "blessed are you..." Please consider this....

This is something that takes a while to understand and to fathom, but once you get it you really "get it!" it makes sense and it will bring a host of passages to light for you.

Psalm 119:18
גַּל־עֵינַ֥י וְאַבִּ֑יטָה נִ֝פְלָאֹ֗ות מִתֹּורָתֶֽךָ
gal-'einai v'abitah nifla'ot mitoratekha
Open my eyes that I may see terrific wonders from your torah [law, instructions]

Amen, let that prayer be true for all of us.

Blessings.
Amen amen amen
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#99
Psalm 119:18
גַּל־עֵינַ֥י וְאַבִּ֑יטָה נִ֝פְלָאֹ֗ות מִתֹּורָתֶֽךָ
gal-'einai v'abitah nifla'ot mitoratekha
Open my eyes that I may see terrific wonders from your torah [law, instructions]

Amen, let that prayer be true for all of us.

Blessings.
AMEN and thank you

For Even the HEAVENS and Earth itself declares God's Glory! There is NO SPEECH or Language where God's creation has not declared His Glory and through that glory Knowledge. May our souls be converted by His perfect Law and may His testimony bring wisdom and rejoicing. May we allow His commandments to enlighten our eyes. For Our Lord Reigns!



Psalm 19

1 The heavens declare the glory of God;
And the firmament shows His handiwork.
2 Day unto day utters speech,
And night unto night reveals knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language
Where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line[a] has gone out through all the earth,
And their words to the end of the world.

7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul;
The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple;
8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart;
The commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes;
9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring forever;
The judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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I noticed there many pages of comments, questions, etc. So I did not read through all of your posts or all of the posts on the entirety of the thread. So if you were asked these questions and would like to direct me to the post number which you addressed this I would appreciate that.

I am going to try to make a case that what you are doing is actually building the foundation FOR the Trinity (good job!) even though what you are doing is trying to ask "gotcha" questions. Sorry, it doesn't work like that. So I would like to quote these same scriptures back at you with a few more passages you may have overlooked and possibly, time permitting, you will be able to reply back. Okay..

You quoted from Exodus 33 and John 1:18, both texts which I will also refer to. You have a multitude of passages in the Old Testament (tanakh) which clearly state God can be seen and has been seen. The first text I will draw from is Genesis 32.

Genesis 32:31 (verse 30 in English-Christian translations)
יִּקְרָ֧א יַעֲקֹ֛ב שֵׁ֥ם הַמָּקֹ֖ום פְּנִיאֵ֑ל כִּֽי־רָאִ֤יתִי אֱלֹהִים֙ פָּנִ֣ים אֶל־פָּנִ֔ים וַתִּנָּצֵ֖ל נַפְשִֽׁי

"And Jacob called the name of the place peniel (face of God), for I have seen God face to face and my life (lit. soul) is preserved.

So, this is one of the clearest passages where Jacob has seen God. First it says it's a man, then it says it's God, and then it says it's an angel. Well, Jacob clearly believed he saw God. He named the place "peniel" which means face of God. Um, does that mean he saw God's face? He goes on to say why he says this by saying "ki ra'iti elohim panim el-panim", for I have seen God face to face (panim el-panim). Are we to believe this? Does this fit into our theology? Can we "allow the scriptures to speak" ?

Isaiah and Amos had similar encounters with God. Read the accounts in Isaiah 6 and Amos 9. They both say the same phrase "ראיתי את-אדני", ra'iti 'et 'adonai, I have seen my Lord. Trust me, Isaiah and Amos both knew the Torah, they knew Exodus 33 where it says "לֹֽא־ יִרְאַ֥נִי הָאָדָ֖ם וָחָֽי" lo yir'ani ha'adam vachai, no human can see me and live. So, Isaiah was ready to die! Isaiah continues on in chapter 6 verse 5 and says "אוי לי" oy li! Woe is me! He was prepared to die! But what happened? Neither Isaiah, Amos, Jacob, Moses, Ezekiel, (the list goes ) have died when they saw God.

John 1:18 makes it very explicit no man has ever seen the Father except the Son. So, what does this mean? How are we to understand these passages where God was clearly seen? Well, in light of a host of passages in the NT which declare the deity of ישוע܇/Yeshua/Jesus as the Son of God, who is God incarnate. We can understand all of these mysteries and more! Colossians 1:15 "He [The Son] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation." Amazing! So, yes it's true no one has seen God, the Father! But, they saw the Son. Anytime God was visible in the Old Testament or in the Person of Jesus, it was the Son of God!

That is the only thing that makes sense to me or we are stuck with the question, how can God be seen and yet unseen at the same time? Visible and yet invisible? Are only some passages in the Bible true? Or are they all true like 2nd Timothy 3:16 says "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God...." Consider why Paul and Peter both say " looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ" and "...by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: " (ref. Titus 2:13, 2 Peter 1:1.. How could they call Jesus our great God and Savior? (Isaiah 9:6 (9:5 in Hebrew/Jewish-English translations) says the child will be called "אל גבור /el gibor" - Mighty God. Psalm 45.. Etc, etc.. Think of how Thomas could say in John 20:28 "...my Lord and my God!" and instead of being rebuked Jesus blesses him and says "blessed are you..." Please consider this....

This is something that takes a while to understand and to fathom, but once you get it you really "get it!" it makes sense and it will bring a host of passages to light for you.

Psalm 119:18
גַּל־עֵינַ֥י וְאַבִּ֑יטָה נִ֝פְלָאֹ֗ות מִתֹּורָתֶֽךָ
gal-'einai v'abitah nifla'ot mitoratekha
Open my eyes that I may see terrific wonders from your torah [law, instructions]

Amen, let that prayer be true for all of us.

Blessings.
very very cool Shwagga!
many thanks bud:D