Less well-known Rapture verses. The case for the Rapture is compelling.

[lamad]

Where I had written "bear in mind that vv.6-7,1 provides the same time period that 7:25 also had spoken of...," I was NOT speaking of Matt24, but of Daniel 12 [Daniel 12:6-7,1] (the chpt that "lamad" suggests corresponds with Antiochus Epiphanes [in past history], and not the future trib years--of which idea I DISAGREE)




When it comes to MATTHEW 24:6-8, yes[!], that is indeed IN / DURING / WITHIN the "future" TRIB yrs, in the FIRST HALF[!]... so you and I are in agreement here.

My apologies for being unclear (since I had opted for a sparsely-worded explanation... my theory held true... it was unclear to the reader, namely *you* this time, due to not enough explanatory text ... I'm taking note, and will go back to my more-detailed explanations, so as to make unmistakable, my intentions. Thank you for bringing that to my attention, yet again!!! )

I was NOT speaking of Matt24, but of Daniel 12 [Daniel 12:6-7,1] (the chpt that "lamad" suggests corresponds with Antiochus Epiphanes [in past history], and not the future trib years--of which idea I DISAGREE)

Now you are accusing me of something I never said. It was the 1335 days that was about Antiochus Epiphanes. ALL of Dan. 12 is about the Jew's and Hebrew's future. Perhaps was was unclear in how I wrote that.

 

[lamad]

It really amazes me that you continue to push this LIE about no takers. You have been shown 2 Thess 2:1-3 many times.


Well, you sure see "pretrib" in just about everything, huh.

In NONE of these examples above is there any mention of a tribulation. But maybe you could take the time to take each example, one at a time, and explain how the example proves that Jesus raptures believers and takes them to heaven.

Since we all know that NONE of the rapture verses mentions that the resurrected and raptured believers are taken to heaven.

Do you actually know how many is in NONE?

It's very simple: if you don't WANT to go to heaven during the trib; just do nothing: it will happen.

 

[lamad]

Revelation is in chronological order

7 churches
7 Seals
Seven Years for us, starting as soon as Covenant signed after Mid East War
Seven Trumpets delivered by 2 Christian WITNESSES
Last Trump is Jesus in the clouds Rev 10;7
Seven Vials

No over laps...continumum... no missing links in history or prophecy

Seven seals -> seven trumpets -> seven vials: John's main timeline. I certainly agree with your first and last sentences, but with a caveat: There are intermissions and parentheses.

 

[cv5]

Now you are accusing me of something I never said. It was the 1335 days that was about Antiochus Epiphanes. ALL of Dan. 12 is about the Jew's and Hebrew's future. Perhaps was was unclear in how I wrote that.

Can you explain that (1335 days) in more detail?

 

[lamad]

I disagree (though I do not see "45 days after" either... [only a matter of several days, due to "overlap" issues, not "45" additional days]).



When Jesus said (Matt24:15), "When ye therefore shall see the abomination [singular] of desolation [singular], spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place...," there are only two choices in Daniel where the "SINGULAR" is used... one in chpt 11 (about Antiochus Epiphanes) and one in chpt 12 (12:11 - "and the abomination [singular] of desolation SET UP [H5414 - put, appoint]...");

--and bearing in mind that vv.6-7,1 provide the same time-period that 7:25 also had spoken of (which is parallel to the other passages in Scripture speaking to the same future second half of the Trib yrs);

--and how Daniel is told he will "rest [in death] and STAND IN THY LOT [be resurrected / 'to stand again' (on the earth)] at the END of the DAYS [at the END of the "days" referred to IN THIS CONTEXT; i.e. at the END of the future Trib yrs, which is when ALL OT saints will be resurrected FOR the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom age (see Job19:25-27, for example; see also Matt8:11 and its parallel... re: the "meal [G347 - "shall sit down (around a table; at a meal)]"<--corresponding to other passages with same, as I've mentioned in past posts)]";

--and how Dan12:12's "BLESSED" corresponds with about 9-10 other "BLESSED" passages speaking of the "still-living" saints' [at the END of the Trib] ENTRANCE INTO the earthly MK age, commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth (same time-slot and circumstances in each of these [8-10] related "BLESSED" passages)





[again, the "ye/you" of Matthew 24 / Olivet Discourse is a "CONSISTENT 'ye/you'" and is NOT speaking of "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"... example: v.9 ('ye') and v.15 ('ye') are the SAME "ye" group... WE WON'T BE HERE! ]

Dan. 12:
6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?
7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

"These wonders" start with verse 1 which is the time of great trouble. (not an accurate starting point.)

8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

The end of these wonders is 3 1/2 years or from Revelation, 42 months or 1260 days. But Revelation gives a good starting point. Now an angel gives Daniel a good starting point:

from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up,

This is the exact midpoint of the week: the dividing point. In Revelation it is marked by the 7th trumpet and I believe it is the exact moment the man of sin enters the Holy of Holies.

In verse 11, the angel introduces a new timeframe: it seems he extends John's 1260 days another 30 Days. Could this be the day Jesus returns to Armageddon? (the 1260th day being the 7th vial).

Then verse 12 introduces yet ANOTHER day: It is yet another 45 days after the 1290th day. Perhaps that is the official start of the Millennial reign?

 

[lamad]

Can you explain that (1335 days) in more detail?

Not much to write: see the above post.

 

[lamad]

So say ye, that Daniel 12 is past tense..... I differ saying it is future tense and exact and matches up exactly with all the other exact time periods of the Lord

Daniel 12 4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Maybe you are reading from an old old bible, mine says time of the end...... after the Great Tribulation

I don't know where you got the idea of past tense.

 

[lamad]

I disagree (though I do not see "45 days after" either... [only a matter of several days, due to "overlap" issues, not "45" additional days]).



When Jesus said (Matt24:15), "When ye therefore shall see the abomination [singular] of desolation [singular], spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place...," there are only two choices in Daniel where the "SINGULAR" is used... one in chpt 11 (about Antiochus Epiphanes) and one in chpt 12 (12:11 - "and the abomination [singular] of desolation SET UP [H5414 - put, appoint]...");

--and bearing in mind that vv.6-7,1 provide the same time-period that 7:25 also had spoken of (which is parallel to the other passages in Scripture speaking to the same future second half of the Trib yrs);

--and how Daniel is told he will "rest [in death] and STAND IN THY LOT [be resurrected / 'to stand again' (on the earth)] at the END of the DAYS [at the END of the "days" referred to IN THIS CONTEXT; i.e. at the END of the future Trib yrs, which is when ALL OT saints will be resurrected FOR the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom age (see Job19:25-27, for example; see also Matt8:11 and its parallel... re: the "meal [G347 - "shall sit down (around a table; at a meal)]"<--corresponding to other passages with same, as I've mentioned in past posts)]";

--and how Dan12:12's "BLESSED" corresponds with about 9-10 other "BLESSED" passages speaking of the "still-living" saints' [at the END of the Trib] ENTRANCE INTO the earthly MK age, commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth (same time-slot and circumstances in each of these [8-10] related "BLESSED" passages)

[again, the "ye/you" of Matthew 24 / Olivet Discourse is a "CONSISTENT 'ye/you'" and is NOT speaking of "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"... example: v.9 ('ye') and v.15 ('ye') are the SAME "ye" group... WE WON'T BE HERE! ]

This is a good post. Please note:

1260 from the midpoint to the end of the week
1290 1290-1260=30 so an event 30 days past the end of the week
1335 1335-1290=45 days Speaking of yet another event 45 days after the previous 1290 event.

These are two events AFTER the week ends at the 7th vial in Rev. 16.
Jesus shows up some unknown time after.
The official start of the millennial reign is not shown, but it too would show up after.

Many people try to word these numbers backwards into the week. I think that is a mistake.

 

[lamad]

Differ, the Jews are no different than anyone else, npo one is cghosen by heritage as we came from the Lords design, we are all chosen if we choose Jesus, and better off if we decide to follow HIM, as His 144,000 are not elite Jewish people but from every tribe and nation pon Earth. Remember Jesus has no favorites, all must cvhoose.

Jacob choose wisely

First born Esau and Cain did not. Choose equallity and love not sp[ecial status because pof lour parents or passport identification. Full Stop Selah

Romans 2:29
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Hmmm. Did you read Ezekiel 37? Isn't that a promise to a certain people?

 

[lamad]

To be a Christian, a person has to receive the Messiah.. FULL stop.

WE become kings and priests in the Millinium to the unsaved that have survived, for we know their trials and tribulations.

Im not sure how you got that from above.

Not all die at the Battle of Arm.... life goes on, Jesus rules rather than man, but again after 1,000 years they become just as bad as now.

Peter preaching to the Jews: "Believe in Jesus...He is the Messiah..."
Paul's gospel: believe in the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord.

Two different message to two different people groups.

 

[lamad]

Jordan said:

Any Jewish believer would be a Christian, believer before or after the Tribulation. Their a new creature, reborn in the SPIRIT

Same rules apply to all, Jesus has no favorites and the rules apply to all and everyone. Again its called equality

I can agree that they are followers of Christ. Whether or not they are born again will be up to God. Many people think the born again walk is only for the church.

TDW, I would like your input.

 

[Truth7t7]

In fact, I acknowledged that God destroyed all of S & G. Why don't you read my posts before making such embarrassing responses?

But, how does "destroy them all" from S & G relate to Revelation? You never explain yourself.

Playing Games In Distraction, As If The Bold Red Below Isn't Understandable

You defy the simple words of God below, ignoring the truth of the Lords destruction at his return/revealing

(Destroyed Them All)

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

[lamad]

Now you are accusing me of something I never said. It was the 1335 days that was about Antiochus Epiphanes. ALL of Dan. 12 is about the Jew's and Hebrew's future. Perhaps was was unclear in how I wrote that.

So sorry, all. I was thinking of the 2300 days of Antiochus. OF COURSE the 1335 days if for our future. My stake.
[I only have one excuse: I am older! ]

 

[lamad]

Just as I expected: nonsense. You don't understand either of these time periods.
The 1335 relates to history and to the time of Antiochus. Using this number for future is myth.
The 1290 is another 30 days AFTER the last 1260 days ends.
Neither of these have ANYTHING to do with God's wrath in the future.
Thanks for answering.

So sorry. My mistaken! I was thinking the 2300 days of Antiochus. OF COURSE the 1335 is future.

(Many people try to use Antiochus' time of 2300 days for our future. ) I was WRONG!

Jordan, you were RIGHT ON!

 

[Guojing]

By mortal humans. Who else?


The "nations", per Rev 20-
7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison
8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore.

iow, mortal humans.


Your claim has no support from Scripture. Rev 20 lays it all out. Christ returns at the 2nd Advent, ends the battle of Armageddon and sets up His Millennial kingdom. At that point, all believers will have been resurrected and "gathered" (raptured) and will serve Christ in His kingdom. Who does Christ rule over? The nations. According to Scripture, somewhat less that HALF of earth's population will have died during the Trib. So at today's count, that leaves somewhat less than 3.5 B people. Certainly enough to form nations.

Where would those mortal humans come from after the sheep and goat judgement in Matthew 25, if you hold the doctrine that everyone who is saved during the Tribulation will have the same status as us in the Body of Christ?

You are either thrown into the lake of fire, or enter the millennial kingdom after Matthew 25:31-46.

 

[cv5]

So sorry, all. I was thinking of the 2300 days of Antiochus. OF COURSE the 1335 days if for our future. My stake.
[I only have one excuse: I am older! ]

OK......the 2300 days of Dan 8. That's what I thought you meant.

 

[lamad]

OK......the 2300 days of Dan 8. That's what I thought you meant.

 

[Truth7t7]

You are either thrown into the lake of fire, or enter the millennial kingdom after Matthew 25:31-46.

Matthew 25:46 below is the final judgement, it's the "Eternal" Lake Of Fire, Or The "Eternal" Kingdom

Your claim that the the righteous seen enter a Millennial Kingdom on this earth is "False"

You just cant let go of that "Earthly" Kingdom

Matthew 25:46KJV
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[Guojing]

Matthew 25:46 below is the final judgement, it's the "Eternal" Lake Of Fire, Or The "Eternal" Kingdom

Your claim that the the righteous seen enter a Millennial Kingdom on this earth is "False"

You just cant let go of that "Earthly" Kingdom

Matthew 25:46KJV
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

I understand you have a different interpretation of the end times, which you are entitled to.

No need to reply to my points, I know you disagree.

 

[Truth7t7]

I understand you have a different interpretation of the end times, which you are entitled to.

No need to reply to my points, I know you disagree.

Big Smiles, the forum is to debate and communicate, hopefully you will learn something concerning Gods words