What is the Difference Between Confidence and Delusion? Can Knowing the Difference Save Us From a Lot of Heartache?

[Karlon]

Hey Everyone,

Some recent conversations here in the threads had me pondering something I've thought about for a long time. What is the difference between people having high self-confidence -- and just plain being delusional?

What I mean is, what is the difference between being confident in who you are in Christ and who you are as a person, but having expectations that border on pure fantasy?

Let's look at the movie, "The Fifth Element," as a case study.

View attachment 277734

In this film, Korben Dallas (Bruce Willis,) is assigned to an undercover mission:

View attachment 277735

The miliary tells him they are assigning a female officer to pose as his wife:

View attachment 277736

But you see, Korben has already met Leeloo (Milla Jovovich):

View attachment 277737


And as could be predicted, he quickly evades the military officers in order to pursue Leeloo instead.


This is the scientist in charge of Leeloo's when she was brought under government watch. The actor playing this character is only 1 year older than Bruce Willis (Korben.)

View attachment 277738


Let's look at some real-life age differences between the actors playing these characters:

1. Bruce Willis (Korben) is 20 years older than Milla Jovovich (Leeloo.)

2. Bruce Willis is 9 years older than the actress (Julie T. Wallace) playing the military woman assigned to be his wife. Both women are younger, but Milla is MUCH younger, and so it seems that the military woman who was to pose as his wife is much closer in age, and, perhaps, more "socially appropriate." But obviously... This woman looks a bit... different... than Leeloo.

3. Christopher Fairbank (the scientist) is 1 year older than Bruce Willis -- so they're practically the same age. If age alone were the determining factor, both of these men should have an equal shot at winning Leeloo over.

But we all know who the younger, hotter woman winds up with:

Now of course, there are all kinds of other factors at play here, most notably personal preferences. Some people might not find any of these people attractive; some might be attracted to the more everyday-looking ones -- because we all know everyone has different tastes.

But here's my point -- we all know, or have known, people around us (or even ourselves) who look like the military wife and the scientist.

But we also all know a woman who might look like the military wife -- pretty, but not society's "ideal" -- but she thinks she's going to land a Bruce Willis (Korben Dallas.)

And we all know a man who looks like the scientist -- handsome, but also not society's "ideal" -- but he thinks he's going to score a Leeloo (a younger, much hotter woman.)

The "military wife" and the "scientist" might be much closer in age and much closer to each other on the attractiveness "scale", but chances are high that many people like this won't want each other. Rather, they are each going to pass over anyone like themselves, and keep on looking for their Bruce Willis or for their Leeloo. This will be doubly so if they are Christian, because they will believe that God wants only "THE BEST" for them, and they will believe that the best means whatever they want most. Most don't realize, or won't admit, that God's best for us is often much different than what we think is the best.

And, chances are, a lot people like this are going to experience a lot of heartache in the process -- often growing bitter that they haven't found the man or woman of their dreams.

If we were more realistic about ourselves and what we attract, would we spare ourselves a lot of grief?

(Continued in Post #2 to Make This Easier to Read.)

delusion is a false sense of security & confidence backed with the devil's tempting. it also occurs when we begin to 2nd guess ourselves & beyond. too, you start believing what is easy to believe & when others around you believe in the same thing.

 

[Lynx]

Like a lot of amazing people on this thread, think you were just born a couple of decades too late Lynx. It's beyond gutting somebody as clever and witty as you, thinks a six is something to aspire to.
My generation was one of the last to view people as a package, course we thought "phwoar" about hot people but smart, funny, kind, lovely people etc often got their day in the sun too. Large gaps in supposed attractiveness were pretty common at the time, common enough for popular songs to be written about it, like this one from Joe Jackson in 1978/9:

Joe Jackson Is She Really Going Out With Him -

Reading through this thread is so saddening, the world's gone mad, had a nervous breakdown and i don't think it's going to recover.

You haven't seen my gut. Or my bad teeth. Or my grey hair. Or my widow's peak...

Actually if you see a picture of just my face, I'm about a 7.

 

[Texasgal]

Some of us gals (hags) pushing 50 has a hard time in front of the mirror. Not even makeup can do the magic anymore. Then there’s guys in their 60s still looking good and being chased by gals in their 30s or 40s. And these women have solid careers and don’t need his money.

 

[tourist]

I remember the infancy of your courtship with Darlene, and the love blossoming as yous were all goo-goo ga-ga to each other as one inspired the other's creative genius. I love you both and twice as much so as one.

Thank you for your kind words. I guess that we put on quite a show.

 

[Mem]

Thank you for your kind words. I guess that we put on quite a show.

Not quite the Song of Solomon but, yes, you did.

 

[SomeDisciple]

And I have regularly listened to the heartache of people who still believe that they can catch unicorns -- and won't hear a single word that contradicts their belief.

I don't understand what is so unrealistic about an ancient "perfect" being, with the health of a 20 year old, falling from the sky through the roof of my truck and then in love as we save the universe from a sentient and telepathic ball of evil space lava... this could literally happen to me tomorrow. But if it doesn't; I won't have any regrets about not settling down with Major Iceborg.

But what I really don't understand is why you took this great movie and reduced the character dynamics to the age and relative "hawtness" of the actors; IOW you gave the most superficial analysis possible. Do you even like this movie? I bet you don't; but there is far more to it than 90's Milla's obviously attractive flesh- just like there is more to real-life relationship dynamics.

 

[seoulsearch]

I don't understand what is so unrealistic about an ancient "perfect" being, with the health of a 20 year old, falling from the sky through the roof of my truck and then in love as we save the universe from a sentient and telepathic ball of evil space lava... this could literally happen to me tomorrow. But if it doesn't; I won't have any regrets about not settling down with Major Iceborg.

But what I really don't understand is why you took this great movie and reduced the character dynamics to the age and relative "hawtness" of the actors; IOW you gave the most superficial analysis possible. Do you even like this movie? I bet you don't; but there is far more to it than 90's Milla's obviously attractive flesh- just like there is more to real-life relationship dynamics.

Have you read the other thread that was going on in the Singles Forum?

https://christianchat.com/christian-singles-forum/what-are-you-looking-for.219547/

I can understand that not everyone is following the Singles threads and why this thread would be hard to understand on its own. You'll get a better gist of why I wrote this if you read through that thread and it's answers, though I know it's gotten long.

The basic summary is that a gentlemen in the other thread said he is a 6.5; he provided an IA picture of a woman who doesn't exist whom he said is his dream girl, and said she's about a 9. He later said that he believes he can move up to an 8, so all that has to happen is that she needs to agree to step down to being an 8, and then they would be perfectly compatible.

In his first post, he said he'd heard a joke saying that "women are like parking lots, all the good ones are taken, and the rest are handicapped." He said that he will not settle for "low-hanging fruit" or a woman who could be seen as a "starter wife."

But yet, he expects a situation in which a woman who is a 9 to step down (the women seemed to rate her picture higher than 9; some of the other gentlemen seemed to agree with his rating of 9). In other words, he won't accept low-hanging fruit but he expects a woman on a higher level than him will be perfectly happy to step down for him, which would make HIM the low-hanging fruit. Apparently, he feels it's ok if he is the low-hanging fruit for someone else; he just wants to make sure he doesn't get stuck with a piece of low-hanging fruit himself.

He then asked for honest feedback about what readers thought and I give him kudos for taking what was said -- he just didn't seem to want to take any of what was said to hear. A man in the audience even told him he's more of a 3.5 to 4 than a 6.5, but the original poster seems convinced that with a little polishing, he will easily score up to an 8.

I made two posts in that thread using examples of movies, exactly as I did here -- The Princess Bride -- and pointed out that Buttercup doesn't wind up with Inigo Montoya, Fezzik, or Vizzini. She winds up with Wesley. And my point was, if you're looking to score someone who scores as high on the looks scale as Buttercup, chances are, you'll need to be a similar level of looks as a Wesley. I also included a modern photo of the actress who played her, Robin Wright, who is now 59, rather than about 21 when she was Buttercup. I asked the OP what would happen when his dream girl ages (therefore falling down the looks scale); he never answered, unless I missed it.

Likewise, I also used an example for the women with the movie, "How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days," pointing out the main character, Andie, whom most guys would see as being pretty hot, and her very plain-looking friends. Andie, not her friends, wins over Ben, the hot guy in the movie. My point was, If you're looking to score a Ben, you'd better be at least as hot as Andie.

The guy who wrote the "What are you looking for?" thread asks us what we thought. My answers, in both of those posts, was, "If you're looking to land someone that high on the looks scale, chances are pretty high, whether you're a man or a woman, you're going to first need to rate as high on the looks scale as they do."

And that was the point of this thread. It was basically a spinoff of those two posts because I have seen numerous people around me destroy themselves chasing love interests that are "multiple levels ahead of them," especially online, where people hope someone will fall in love with their personality enough to be willing to excuse looks that might not land on a movie star poster.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

But after seeing so many people get burned out because of it (and often bitter that they are still single,) I'm asking if there's a better way -- such as being more realistic about how we see ourselves and the kind of person we think we can attract.

To keep this from getting too long, I will continue my answer to your questions in the next post.

 

[seoulsearch]

But what I really don't understand is why you took this great movie and reduced the character dynamics to the age and relative "hawtness" of the actors; IOW you gave the most superficial analysis possible. Do you even like this movie? I bet you don't; but there is far more to it than 90's Milla's obviously attractive flesh- just like there is more to real-life relationship dynamics.

It's been interesting to read your assumptions.

I loved The Fifth Element. It came out at a time when I was married (we had the VHS copy,) and my then-husband and I used to pop it into the VCR almost every weekend while we did chores around the house. I loved the movie's bright colors, the creativity, and how different it was from anything else at the time. My favorite scenes were when they rebuilt Leeloo, along with the Diva's famous song and Leeloo's gymnastic-filled fight. I also loved the soundtrack, which my ex and I also used to play often.

I also really like Milla Jovovich as an actress, because I've read about how much she throws herself into the roles and really gives it her all. I saw all the Resident Evil movies, even though I hated how they ignored any continuity and were constantly retconning everything. But those bruises she had in the first movie, in the red dress? From what I've read, they were real, because she was doing as many of her own stunts as she could, and I really admire that in an actor.

Do you know her movie, Ultraviolet? I rented that so many times from the video store, I thought they would charge me because I figured I had worn it out. I don't know why I didn't just buy my own copy.

The Fifth Element is bittersweet for me. I still love the movie by itself and was simply using it in this thread to expound on some things I've thought about for a long time. Since I used movie examples in my answers to the "What are you looking for?" thread, I wanted to use a movie example here as well. (Besides, the author of that thread said Bruce Willis would look "weird" with hair, and I had a different opinion.)

Many years ago, I came home from work from what I thought was a regular day, only to find that the half the house was gone. My then-husband had left without telling me, and much later, I found out it so that he could further pursue a girl we worked with. It's funny when I think about it, but in a way, she was a bit like Leeloo -- tall, thin, younger, and also a redhead (more of a strawberry blonde.) Kind of ironic, but of course, it doesn't mean I somehow blame this movie or anything ridiculous like that. Rather, The Fifth Element is a reminder of a past that for me, is long gone, with any happy moments dissolving into ashes. I have the same feeling about a lot of songs, movies, and media from certain times in my life that I'm better off not thinking about if I can help it.

Now if someone had this movie playing, or wanted to watch it, sure, I'd sit down and watch it with them.

Better yet, maybe I could even build some new memories to associate with this movie that would be happy again.

 

[seoulsearch]

I don't understand what is so unrealistic about an ancient "perfect" being, with the health of a 20 year old, falling from the sky through the roof of my truck and then in love as we save the universe from a sentient and telepathic ball of evil space lava... this could literally happen to me tomorrow. But if it doesn't; I won't have any regrets about not settling down with Major Iceborg.

But what I really don't understand is why you took this great movie and reduced the character dynamics to the age and relative "hawtness" of the actors; IOW you gave the most superficial analysis possible. Do you even like this movie? I bet you don't; but there is far more to it than 90's Milla's obviously attractive flesh- just like there is more to real-life relationship dynamics.

A lot of my threads are a bit like trying to keep up with watching everything from "The Marvel Cinematic Universe" -- in order to understand what's going on, it's helpful to have read several other threads. This is why so many of the same readers/responders show up in the threads over and over again (which I'm grateful for) -- because they've been following the same threads before this one, and we're simply discussing what's going on in them.

I realize this can be a bit puzzling for anyone reading what they think is a standalone thread, but like I told my CC friends, "Sometimes the threads just write themselves (multiple ideas come to me via current discussions,)" and I tend to write out the thoughts while they're still freshly churning in my head.

This is why I sometimes jump very fast from thread to thread -- I'm writing out rapid-fire thoughts just as they are coming to me while people are answering.

 

[Daisy2]

Have you read the other thread that was going on in the Singles Forum?

https://christianchat.com/christian-singles-forum/what-are-you-looking-for.219547/

I can understand that not everyone is following the Singles threads and why this thread would be hard to understand on its own. You'll get a better gist of why I wrote this if you read through that thread and it's answers, though I know it's gotten long.

The basic summary is that a gentlemen in the other thread said he is a 6.5; he provided an IA picture of a woman who doesn't exist whom he said is his dream girl, and said she's about a 9. He later said that he believes he can move up to an 8, so all that has to happen is that she needs to agree to step down to being an 8, and then they would be perfectly compatible.

In his first post, he said he'd heard a joke saying that "women are like parking lots, all the good ones are taken, and the rest are handicapped." He said that he will not settle for "low-hanging fruit" or a woman who could be seen as a "starter wife."

But yet, he expects a situation in which a woman who is a 9 to step down (the women seemed to rate her picture higher than 9; some of the other gentlemen seemed to agree with his rating of 9). In other words, he won't accept low-hanging fruit but he expects a woman on a higher level than him will be perfectly happy to step down for him, which would make HIM the low-hanging fruit. Apparently, he feels it's ok if he is the low-hanging fruit for someone else; he just wants to make sure he doesn't get stuck with a piece of low-hanging fruit himself.

He then asked for honest feedback about what readers thought and I give him kudos for taking what was said -- he just didn't seem to want to take any of what was said to hear. A man in the audience even told him he's more of a 3.5 to 4 than a 6.5, but the original poster seems convinced that with a little polishing, he will easily score up to an 8.

I made two posts in that thread using examples of movies, exactly as I did here -- The Princess Bride -- and pointed out that Buttercup doesn't wind up with Inigo Montoya, Fezzik, or Vizzini. She winds up with Wesley. And my point was, if you're looking to score someone who scores as high on the looks scale as Buttercup, chances are, you'll need to be a similar level of looks as a Wesley. I also included a modern photo of the actress who played her, Robin Wright, who is now 59, rather than about 21 when she was Buttercup. I asked the OP what would happen when his dream girl ages (therefore falling down the looks scale); he never answered, unless I missed it.

Likewise, I also used an example for the women with the movie, "How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days," pointing out the main character, Andie, whom most guys would see as being pretty hot, and her very plain-looking friends. Andie, not her friends, wins over Ben, the hot guy in the movie. My point was, If you're looking to score a Ben, you'd better be at least as hot as Andie.

The guy who wrote the "What are you looking for?" thread asks us what we thought. My answers, in both of those posts, was, "If you're looking to land someone that high on the looks scale, chances are pretty high, whether you're a man or a woman, you're going to first need to rate as high on the looks scale as they do."

And that was the point of this thread. It was basically a spinoff of those two posts because I have seen numerous people around me destroy themselves chasing love interests that are "multiple levels ahead of them," especially online, where people hope someone will fall in love with their personality enough to be willing to excuse looks that might not land on a movie star poster.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

But after seeing so many people get burned out because of it (and often bitter that they are still single,) I'm asking if there's a better way -- such as being more realistic about how we see ourselves and the kind of person we think we can attract.

To keep this from getting too long, I will continue my answer to your questions in the next post.

Billy graham once said something like this ~ that people watch all it on tv and think they can have it and without working for it. Its false expectations of a fictionalized imaginary world.

 

[SomeDisciple]

The basic summary is that a gentlemen in the other thread said he is a 6.5; he provided an IA picture of a woman who doesn't exist

This all sounds totally nuts; and I'm glad that I don't know what "starter wife" is supposed to mean. Hopefully I never even find out.

I have seen numerous people around me destroy themselves chasing love interests that are "multiple levels ahead of them," especially online,

My observations have been the opposite. Hollywood portrayals are like that on purpose, rather than being an imitation of real life; but I could see how people would break themselves "chasing" romantic relationships. Chasers are probably more misguided than delusional.

Do you know her movie, Ultraviolet?

Yep; I bought the DVD without even knowing anything about it, but I recognized pretty quick that it was something you can watch with a girlfriend.

(Besides, the author of that thread said Bruce Willis would look "weird" with hair, and I had a different opinion.)

That's dumb; Hudson Hawk does not look even a little weird.

Better yet, maybe I could even build some new memories to associate with this movie that would be happy again.

I really hope this happens for you. Nobody deserves to have the things they like spoiled for life with bad memories.

 

[Lynx]

Personally I thought Buttercup SHOULD have gone with Inigo. He was handsome in a dashing way, he rescued her and he even had the foresight to build up a tolerance to iocaine powder. How could Wesley top THAT?

 

[seoulsearch]

Personally I thought Buttercup SHOULD have gone with Inigo. He was handsome in a dashing way, he rescued her and he even had the foresight to build up a tolerance to iocaine powder. How could Wesley top THAT?

Uh... The guy who did that WAS Wesley, "disguised" as The Man in Black.

Inigo was the guy who kept going after the 6-fingered man to avenge his father.

 

[enril]

Personally I thought Buttercup SHOULD have gone with Inigo. He was handsome in a dashing way, he rescued her and he even had the foresight to build up a tolerance to iocaine powder. How could Wesley top THAT?

huh. cant decideif its a joke.

 

[Lynx]

huh. cant decideif its a joke.

It ain't a joke. It's I never saw that movie. I just saw that iocaine powder clip somebody posted here on the internet. I thought that was Inigo... Guess not.

 

[Mem]

Has anyone ever seen Mrs. Skeffington with Bette Davis playing the starry role with Claude Rains playing Job Skeffington? Now that is a romantic movie. There's a more current movie with a similar plotline The Painted Veil with Naomi Watts and Ed Norton, and looking up the specs, I see this is a remake of the original with Greta Garbo and Herbert Marshall. I rather wish I'd have seen that version as I could've done without the gratuitous scene the 06 detracted from its true quality in viewing.

IMO, it opens the discussion of whether it is better to love or to be loved.

 

[Edith]

I was thinking that it probably seems unfair that I've been writing and commenting so much on posts regarding looks and rating scales, but haven't shown my own picture.

Long-timers here have probably seen this, but:

https://christianchat.com/christian...-to-post-a-picture-of-yourself.203603/page-17


Post #323.

I think it's the only picture I have on the site. It's a few years old but I think the people who know me will say I haven't changed much.

People have almost always thought I was a bit younger than my age.

I usually don't state my age publicly (for privacy's sake,) but last week my Mom got asked if I was her granddaughter (rather than her daughter) and it made me laugh out loud!!

(I keep telling my friends, one day it's going to all catch up to me and I'll wake up looking 80.)

I've always rated myself around a 6, as I always felt that was a realistic answer.

And that's only because yes, I had massive amounts of dental work done, or I'd probably put myself as an average of 5.

Asians don't grow old quickly Seoul. by the way You are beautiful and it's the eyes for me. I have a crush on Asians.

 

[Edith]

LOL!

I'm thinking, I need to take @Tall_Timbers first paragraph and turn it into a disclaimer for the threads I start. I'd get in A LOT less trouble if people agreed with this! I'd also spend A LOT less time having to dodge people who want to blame me for any of the effects these threads might have!

I try to tell people they keep coming back by their own free will, but they don't seem to believe me.

On a serious note, I find that the older I get, the more I gravitate towards people who have a lot of life experience, while still being open to the lives of others.

This is why I feel more of a calling to long-time Christians.

It's awesome to be around someone who is excited to know Jesus for the first time. But what I'm really drawn to are the ones who have known him 10, 20, 50 years... a lifetime... because of how many challenges they've faced along the way.

The people I talk to in their 20's and 30's seem to have a very idealized version of who they're looking for; when people get to about 40 and up, it seems to slightly split off into two areas of thinking (to me, at least): those who have even more idealized thinking (like if they've been through a divorce and believe they're going to find THE REAL ONE this time); and those whose views have changed drastically from before, due to the hardships of life.

I like listening to people from all walks, but I enjoy talking to the ones with the realistic viewpoints more.

not all 30s though

 

[Edith]

Hey Everyone,

Some recent conversations here in the threads had me pondering something I've thought about for a long time. What is the difference between people having high self-confidence -- and just plain being delusional?

What I mean is, what is the difference between being confident in who you are in Christ and who you are as a person, but having expectations that border on pure fantasy?

Let's look at the movie, "The Fifth Element," as a case study.

View attachment 277734

In this film, Korben Dallas (Bruce Willis,) is assigned to an undercover mission:

View attachment 277735

The miliary tells him they are assigning a female officer to pose as his wife:

View attachment 277736

But you see, Korben has already met Leeloo (Milla Jovovich):

View attachment 277737


And as could be predicted, he quickly evades the military officers in order to pursue Leeloo instead.


This is the scientist in charge of Leeloo's when she was brought under government watch. The actor playing this character is only 1 year older than Bruce Willis (Korben.)

View attachment 277738


Let's look at some real-life age differences between the actors playing these characters:

1. Bruce Willis (Korben) is 20 years older than Milla Jovovich (Leeloo.)

2. Bruce Willis is 9 years older than the actress (Julie T. Wallace) playing the military woman assigned to be his wife. Both women are younger, but Milla is MUCH younger, and so it seems that the military woman who was to pose as his wife is much closer in age, and, perhaps, more "socially appropriate." But obviously... This woman looks a bit... different... than Leeloo.

3. Christopher Fairbank (the scientist) is 1 year older than Bruce Willis -- so they're practically the same age. If age alone were the determining factor, both of these men should have an equal shot at winning Leeloo over.

But we all know who the younger, hotter woman winds up with:

Now of course, there are all kinds of other factors at play here, most notably personal preferences. Some people might not find any of these people attractive; some might be attracted to the more everyday-looking ones -- because we all know everyone has different tastes.

But here's my point -- we all know, or have known, people around us (or even ourselves) who look like the military wife and the scientist.

But we also all know a woman who might look like the military wife -- pretty, but not society's "ideal" -- but she thinks she's going to land a Bruce Willis (Korben Dallas.)

And we all know a man who looks like the scientist -- handsome, but also not society's "ideal" -- but he thinks he's going to score a Leeloo (a younger, much hotter woman.)

The "military wife" and the "scientist" might be much closer in age and much closer to each other on the attractiveness "scale", but chances are high that many people like this won't want each other. Rather, they are each going to pass over anyone like themselves, and keep on looking for their Bruce Willis or for their Leeloo. This will be doubly so if they are Christian, because they will believe that God wants only "THE BEST" for them, and they will believe that the best means whatever they want most. Most don't realize, or won't admit, that God's best for us is often much different than what we think is the best.

And, chances are, a lot people like this are going to experience a lot of heartache in the process -- often growing bitter that they haven't found the man or woman of their dreams.

If we were more realistic about ourselves and what we attract, would we spare ourselves a lot of grief?

(Continued in Post #2 to Make This Easier to Read.)

Ater reading thought the thread I can just add that being delusional is expecting what we can not offer. Tryin to have a woman or man who is always dressed to the 9s when you barely dress up yourself. pin pointing on things you are struggling with yourself. I am a plus size if I get to want a man with perfect abs I am being delusional.
Being confident you look at yourself first what are my "atour" strong points what are my weak points, what can I offer, When I know these I am certain on the type of men I can attract and I hold on to it.

This doesn't exclude the sovereignty of God to give me a😁 man with abs. But But I know my stand.

Talking of looks I am getting curious.Who would like to do a show yourself Thread?. Seoul what do you think aren't you curious? I know you know many here

 

[CarriePie]

Talking of looks I am getting curious.Who would like to do a show yourself Thread?. Seoul what do you think aren't you curious? I know you know many here

There's this thread...

https://christianchat.com/christian...-enough-to-post-a-picture-of-yourself.203603/

---

Concerning myself, I don't have a pic posted on that thread, but there's a video floating around here somewhere of me eating Vegemite and a few pics in the "What are you looking for thread?" and I think that's more than enough of me lol.