Pre-Trib Rapture=Mark of the beast (for some), Naiveness=Sleep and unpreparedness

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eternally-gratefull said:
there is no use in continuing, You ignore half the OT prophesie which says God will restor the NATION of Isreal (not saved people) when they repent and return to him.

You ignore paul who says when the time of the gentile is complete. ALL Isreal will be saved, but at this time, even though THEY (Isreal) are our enemie because of the gospels sake, when the time of th egentiles has been fulfilled, the blindness will be removed.

This is not a salvation issue at all. It is what will happen on earth at a specific time period in Gods plan, Your trying to turn prophesy which is specific to a nation group, and make it fulfilled in a group which is not even that nation.
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I don’t ignore anything eternally-gratefull in the OT.

I don’t ignore ALL Isreal will be saved.

I don’t ignore THEY (Israel) are our enemies because of the gospels sake.

It’s your interpretation the rest of those scriptures that I call into question.

For your interpretation the rest of those scriptures separates Jewish Christians from non-Jewish Christians.

And your interpretation the rest of those scriptures, that segregates the word of God for some and not for others and others and not for some.

It’s your interpretation the rest of those scriptures that seem to say there is NOT been made of one blood in all nations of men.

And your interpretation seems to say there is more than one body in Christ.

And that Christians in Rv are not of the church.

And your interpretation seems to say we are not the children of Abraham

And that there are Jews and Gentiles in Christ Jesus

And that we are NOT all baptized into one body.

It’s your interpretation the rest of those scriptures that I call into question eternally-gratefull, Not the OT.
 
moment_of_faith said:
Well it is in chapter 4 of revelation when he says come up here. John sees the church in heaven. Then the church is not mentioned again in the book of revelation until chapter 19 I believe.
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The church is mentioned after Rv chapter 4. The body is the church and there is only one body one blood one nation. and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.



Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The church


Revelation 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

The church.

And the 14400 the church.

Revelation 14:1and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

Revelation 14:4These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Rv11:3And I will give power unto my two witnesses.

Matt18:20For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

The church is the body of believers that follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth.

So you can see the church is mentioned after Rv chapter 4

1Cor12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Colossians 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
 

They are the Jews and anyone else that come to accept Jesus. That's not the church. The church age is over after the rapture. Then it's the time of Jacob troubles / Israel. The Jews still owe Jesus 7 years. The 7 years left on Daniel 7 X 70.
The church is anyone who accepts Jesus as their lord and savior BEFORE THE RAPTURE and has the Holy Spirit in them. These people will be raptured off the earth in rev. chapter 4. Then they come back with Jesus in Rev. 19 I believe as the bride of Christ. Anyone who accepts Jesus as their lord and savior during the 7 years was not the church is not the church for say. They were all unbelievers at the time of the rapture.
 
Elizabeth619 said:
am i the only person on CC that understands Revelation already took place in the 1st century?
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Why do you believe this? Can you explain?

Where then is the peace treaty, new temple and the abomination that makes desolation? The birth pangs have not yet reached their peak..
 
moment_of_faith said:
Well Jesus did say youwill have your heads cut off.

Let me see if I can ask the question a little different. Those who make it through the tribulations some go into the 1000 year kingdom others don't. So who, where, when, do those meet Jesus in the clouds? Because someone meets him in the clouds
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I think you will find the story goes something like this


At the last trumpet we are raised in the clouds to meet the lord in the air, after the great tribulation.

Then the wrath of God is poured upon the wicked the seven vials of the wrath of God are poured upon the men which had the mark of the beast.

And at the six vial the wicked gather to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Rv16:16And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

That’s when we fight and rule and reign with Christ the 1000 years.


Rv15:1And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

2And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

There we are in the heavens after getting the victory over the beast, then he pours out the wrath upon the men that have the mark.


6And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.

Rv16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
Rv16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
 
moment_of_faith said:
They are the Jews and anyone else that come to accept Jesus. That's not the church. The church age is over after the rapture. Then it's the time of Jacob troubles / Israel. The Jews still owe Jesus 7 years. The 7 years left on Daniel 7 X 70.
The church is anyone who accepts Jesus as their lord and savior BEFORE THE RAPTURE and has the Holy Spirit in them. These people will be raptured off the earth in rev. chapter 4. Then they come back with Jesus in Rev. 19 I believe as the bride of Christ. Anyone who accepts Jesus as their lord and savior during the 7 years was not the church is not the church for say. They were all unbelievers at the time of the rapture.
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The church is the body of believers and there is only one body.

Yes they are Jews, O ye of little faith.



2:28 For he is NOT a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 2:29 But he IS a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

We are washed whiter than snow

Acts 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth,

Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

And as James said when speaking to the church

James 1:1James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

We are grafted into Jesus the word and to the 12 tribes

Thus any one of you could be the 144000
 
moment_of_faith said:
They are the Jews and anyone else that come to accept Jesus. That's not the church. The church age is over after the rapture. Then it's the time of Jacob troubles / Israel. The Jews still owe Jesus 7 years. The 7 years left on Daniel 7 X 70.
The church is anyone who accepts Jesus as their lord and savior BEFORE THE RAPTURE and has the Holy Spirit in them. These people will be raptured off the earth in rev. chapter 4. Then they come back with Jesus in Rev. 19 I believe as the bride of Christ. Anyone who accepts Jesus as their lord and savior during the 7 years was not the church is not the church for say. They were all unbelievers at the time of the rapture.
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Where did you get the tribulation is 7 years?

Jesus said in the middle of that week the great tribulation will begin.

That makes the great tribulation 3 ½ years not 7

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
21For then shall be great tribulation.

Dan9:27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

It’s a seven year period and 3 ½ years of great tribulation

moment_of_faith said:
The church is anyone who accepts Jesus as their lord and savior BEFORE THE RAPTURE and has the Holy Spirit in them. .
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Were does it say that in the hole bible ??
 
So if the great tribulation starts 3 1/2 years in then the means the rider on the red horse goes out 3 1/2 years in to take peace from the earth “ To Start The Great Tribulation. So by the last trumpet it will be 5 plus years into the tribulation. SO why would Jesus what until then to pull his people out? Why let them go through all the other stuff but then bring them out in when we know it is many people that make it all the way through the trib.

The last trump for saving is chapter 4 of revelation
 
moment_of_faith said:
So if the great tribulation starts 3 1/2 years in then the means the rider on the red horse goes out 3 1/2 years in to take peace from the earth “ To Start The Great Tribulation. So by the last trumpet it will be 5 plus years into the tribulation. SO why would Jesus what until then to pull his people out? Why let them go through all the other stuff but then bring them out in when we know it is many people that make it all the way through the trib.

The last trump for saving is chapter 4 of revelation
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Jesus called the period before the great tribulation the beginning of sorrow.

8All these are the beginning of sorrows.
6And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

This period is called the beginning of sorrow not the great tribulation

moment_of_faith said:
The last trump for saving is chapter 4 of revelation
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Where does it say that.
Look up the last trumpet its nowhere near Rv4.
 
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Correct -- the first 3 ½ years are the beginning of sorrows. Elijah, one of the two witnesses will seal up heaven so it will not rain for 3 ½ years and I believe Moses to be the 2nd witness will turn water to Blood. No rain or water is going to be hard times on earth/ the beginning of sorrows. Look how a lack of rain is hurting everyone now. Wait until it doesn’t rain for 3 ½ years, but then to start the 2nd 3 ½ years which are known as the great tribulation the 2nd seal is broken and the rider on the red horse goes out to take peace from earth.

So the 2nd seal is broken 3 ½ year or half way through the 7 year tribulation then the 7th trumpet would be at least 5 years into the 7 years. Why would Jesus do this to his people “ The Church “ also if the church is on earth then you wouldn’t need the 144,000 or the two witnesses to preach. The church would be doing it.

The 200 million man armies are the kings of the east -- China plus other nations and they can easily manage a 200 million man army. China has 1.3 billion people. Mostly boys because they kill the girl babies do to one child per family law. So china has a young generation of nothing but boys. It’s nothing for them to do but fight.

Revelation 16: 12 Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great Euphrates River, and it dried up so that the kings from the east could march their armies toward the west without hindrance.</SPAN>

Revelation 9: 15 Then the four angels who had been prepared for this hour and day and month and year were turned loose to kill one-third of all the people on earth.</SPAN> 16 I heard the size of their army, which was 200 million mounted troops
 
Anyway... look at this if you want.. this is where I am coming from.
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Beth, I started reading your first link. I didn't have to make it but 2 lines down and I can tell you already why that is wrong.

Daniel and Nebuchadnezzar remember his dream. It's going to be revived Roman Empire. We are seeing that now with the EU and if they haven't already they are about to make one person head over it all. So while the Roman Empire is it, it must first be revived. It wasn&#8217;t 2000 years it was started and then broke up to be revived at a later date &#8216; The END TIMES &#8220; which I believe to be NOW
 
moment_of_faith said:
Beth, I started reading your first link. I didn't have to make it but 2 lines down and I can tell you already why that is wrong.

Daniel and Nebuchadnezzar remember his dream. It's going to be revived Roman Empire. We are seeing that now with the EU and if they haven't already they are about to make one person head over it all. So while the Roman Empire is it, it must first be revived. It wasn’t 2000 years it was started and then broke up to be revived at a later date ‘ The END TIMES “ which I believe to be NOW
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You are free to believe what you want. Just keep in mind that not even the son knows the day or the hour. Some people tend to forget that part of the bible.
 
Do you have me down for a quote of the day and hour? Jesus says

Matthew 24:33 In the same way, when you see all these things, you can know his return is very near, right at the door.

You do know when someone is knocking at you do? I have never gave a date but I do know when someone is knocking on my door
 
moment_of_faith said:
Do you have me down for a quote of the day and hour? Jesus says

Matthew 24:33 In the same way, when you see all these things, you can know his return is very near, right at the door.

You do know when someone is knocking at you do? I have never gave a date but I do know when someone is knocking on my door
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So what does "this generation will not pass away" mean to you?
Generation means it was to happen in THEIR lifetime. Not a far away future day.
 
Jesus says when you see all of these things happening &#8220; At The Same Time &#8220; .. That generation will not pass .. We are the generation seeing all these things. Israel Reborn, Great Earthquakes, Waves Roaring &#8220; Tsunamis &#8220; Wars and Rumor of Wars, Ethnic group against Ethnic Group &#8220; Sunni and the Shiites and so on. The days of Noah and Lot, the generation at the end 2 Timothy 3:1-5 or Romans 1:28-32. When you see Israel surrounded by armies no that time is near. One world Order, one word Religion
I believe the lord is AT THE DOOR
 
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