Is once saved always saved true? Or is it only giving false security?

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A

Abiding

Guest
#281
#281
PS said:
John 13:6-11

6 Then cometh he to Simon Peter: and Peter saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet?
7 Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter.
8 Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.
9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.
10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.
11 For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean

John 6:64

64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

It simply says Jesus knew who believed and who would betray him.

Proving the error of OSAS is easy. The only reason I posted about Judas was because EG was getting things wrong and he needed to be shown the other side of the coin, so be careful what you say EG.

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PS you may be a little hardheaded today....read the last 5 words in verse 11

And you avoided john 17 and other verses.

I dont care if your out against OSAS...just use better verses OK?
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#282
Jan 11, 2013
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#282
Abiding said:
PS you may be a little hardheaded today....read the last 5 words in verse 11

And you avoided john 17 and other verses.

I dont care if your out against OSAS...just use better verses OK?
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I answered all those verses, the thread was going very quickly, We know Judas was the son of perdition, even the devil believes and trembles.

We know not all are clean, but that isn't to say he didn't believe. My experience has shown me that many people believe but still they turn their back on God.

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#283
#283
PS said:
I answered all those verses, the thread was going very quickly, We know Judas was the son of perdition, even the devil believes and trembles.

We know not all are clean, but that isn't to say he didn't believe. My experience has shown me that many people believe but still they turn their back on God.

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But we are not saved by belief, we are saved by faith. This is what James tried to tell us.

You say you have faith (you claim you do?? well lets see if you do) But faith without works is dead (and since you have no works, but still live like the world,) your faith is dead. Can faith save you then? You BELIEVE, you do well, EVEN DEMONS BELIEVE..

Belief will never save you.. thats why so many who claim to believe walk away, their faith was not grounded. One who's faith is grounded in Christ would never leave.

Judas did not even believe (He needed Jesus) he was just along for the ride. If he had faiht he needed jesus he would not have turned him in for a little bit of money.



 
A

Abiding

Guest
#284
#284
PS said:
I answered all those verses, the thread was going very quickly, We know Judas was the son of perdition, even the devil believes and trembles.

We know not all are clean, but that isn't to say he didn't believe. My experience has shown me that many people believe but still they turn their back on God.

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Are you for real? only the 12 were there ok?

He said all were not clean...ok?

then it says it was judas..ok? theres no room in the text to say this was a general statement

john 17 further proves this Jesus kept "all" the Father gave Him

but judas was lost.


the devils believe thats not our point here...you said judas was saved...
this is as bad as the gun issue. you cant rightly divide the word and you handle it deceitfully.
google something like OSAS is a farce and come back with better arguements this is just
too much.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#285
Jan 11, 2013
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#285
eternally-gratefull said:
But we are not saved by belief, we are saved by faith. This is what James tried to tell us.

You say you have faith (you claim you do?? well lets see if you do) But faith without works is dead (and since you have no works, but still live like the world,) your faith is dead. Can faith save you then? You BELIEVE, you do well, EVEN DEMONS BELIEVE..

Belief will never save you.. thats why so many who claim to believe walk away, their faith was not grounded. One who's faith is grounded in Christ would never leave.

Judas did not even believe (He needed Jesus) he was just along for the ride. If he had faiht he needed jesus he would not have turned him in for a little bit of money.
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You are making stuff up. Are you sure Judas was just there for the ride?
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#286
Jan 11, 2013
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#286
Abiding said:
Are you for real? only the 12 were there ok?

He said all were not clean...ok?

then it says it was judas..ok? theres no room in the text to say this was a general statement

john 17 further proves this Jesus kept "all" the Father gave Him

but judas was lost.


the devils believe thats not our point here...you said judas was saved...
this is as bad as the gun issue. you cant rightly divide the word and you handle it deceitfully.
google something like OSAS is a farce and come back with better arguements this is just
too much.
Click to expand...
Not all the 12 were clean, we know, Judas was wicked and even the wicked, some of them, also believe.

When was Judas lost? You need to believe first in order to be lost.

The Good Shepherd seeks those who are lost. These are the backsliders which proves people who are saved can be lost.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#287
#287
PS said:
You are making stuff up. Are you sure Judas was just there for the ride?
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Making stuff up? Are you denying Judas was a thief??

Did God make a mistake? Did God not KNOW judas would not believe? Did he not know Judas would steal from them from day one? did he not KNOW he would turn him in for a few coins?? Was God that gullible?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#288
#288
PS said:
Not all the 12 were clean, we know, Judas was wicked and even the wicked, some of them, also believe.

When was Judas lost? You need to believe first in order to be lost.

The Good Shepherd seeks those who are lost. These are the backsliders which proves people who are saved can be lost.
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this would be error. Belief will not save you. many believe. but have no faith. Judas never had faith. He may have believed Jesus was a good teacher. But he never believed he was the messiah, or he would have praised him and followed him to the end, not turn him in for a few bucks..
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#289
#289
PS said:
Not all the 12 were clean, we know, Judas was wicked and even the wicked, some of them, also believe.

When was Judas lost? You need to believe first in order to be lost.

The Good Shepherd seeks those who are lost. These are the backsliders which proves people who are saved can be lost.
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Jesus came to the lost sheep of Israel....does that mean they lost their salvation?
PS its impossible to get through to you. All people are born lost and condemned.

You should realize we all can learn. Im afraid you dont have the right attitude for that.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#290
Jan 11, 2013
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#290
eternally-gratefull said:
Making stuff up? Are you denying Judas was a thief??

Did God make a mistake? Did God not KNOW judas would not believe? Did he not know Judas would steal from them from day one? did he not KNOW he would turn him in for a few coins?? Was God that gullible?
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Why would anyone deny Jesus was a thief. You are making more stuff up.

Are you saying God made a mistake?

I'm saying it was part of God's divine plan for the salvation of mankind.

You are not reading my posts and neither are you understanding or listening to me.
 
homwardbound

homwardbound

Senior Member
#291
Oct 24, 2012
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#291
mark54 said:
To me the Gopspel is two fold.
The core of the faith is knowing Christ died on the cross for our sin
But the practical working out of that in our lives requires acceptance and understanding of the following

This is the covenant I will make with them after that time declares the Lord
I will put my laws in their hearts and write them on their minds
Then he adds
Their sins and lawless deeds I will remeber no more
Heb10:16&17

Under the new coveannt God, through the spirit circumcises our hearts(Rom2:29)
Under the old covenant God told Moses to tell the people to circumcise their hearts(Duet10:16)

Under the old covenant the law was written on tablets of stone, under the new on tablets of human hearts(2C3:3)

Under the old coveannt the Israelites strove to obey the literal law, under the new covenant we look to Christ for our hearts desire(obediance due to the law written on our hearts and minds.)

But as Jesus said:

No-one after drinking the old wine wants the new, for he says. 'The old is better'
Luke5:39
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Thanks Mark54 , it is not easy to renew one's mind from flesh to Spirit of God seeing things Father's way as oyuso well put
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#293
#293
PS said:
Why would anyone deny Jesus was a thief. You are making more stuff up.
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Oh so Jesus was a thief now?? or did you mean judas?? if you do not deny he was a theif.. how could you say he changed and lived a life for jesus?? which if he was ever saved, he would have done.

Are you saying God made a mistake?
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No you are!

I'm saying it was part of God's divine plan for the salvation of mankind.
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Oh, so it was gods plan all along to save judas, and give him eternal life, only to take it away because Judas did not live up to some standard and rejected christ. Ok. thanks.. that says alot!!

You are not reading my posts and neither are you understanding or listening to me.
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no, your not reading your posts, because what you say does not make sense.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#294
Jan 11, 2013
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#294
Abiding said:
Jesus came to the lost sheep of Israel....does that mean they lost their salvation?
PS its impossible to get through to you. All people are born lost and condemned.

You should realize we all can learn. Im afraid you dont have the right attitude for that.
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I dispute Jesus only came for the lost sheep of Israel. That is just not true at all.

You must also realise that many Israelites believed and followed God, only to turn away from Him later, thus proving yet again that people backslide and cannot always be saved and OSAS is wrong.
 
homwardbound

homwardbound

Senior Member
#295
Oct 24, 2012
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#295
Geometar said:
I do not denie that Faith saves us,but only with works.Do not try to prove other,because it is impossible.
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Geometar works true works are a by-product of faith in Jesus Christ so in this sense you are correct if this is your meaning of works
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#296
#296
PS said:
I dispute Jesus only came for the lost sheep of Israel. That is just not true at all.
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Talk about not reading what he said. He never said HE ONLY CAME FOR THEM. He asked you if they lost there salvation. did they? is that why they were lost?


You must also realise that many Israelites believed and followed God, only to turn away from Him later, thus proving yet again that people backslide and cannot always be saved and OSAS is wrong.
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As Abiding said earlier. You need to get better arguments, your arguments against OSAS are seriously flawed!
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#297
Jan 11, 2013
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#297
eternally-gratefull said:
Oh so Jesus was a thief now?? or did you mean judas?? if you do not deny he was a theif.. how could you say he changed and lived a life for jesus?? which if he was ever saved, he would have done.

No you are!

Oh, so it was gods plan all along to save judas, and give him eternal life, only to take it away because Judas did not live up to some standard and rejected christ. Ok. thanks.. that says alot!!

no, your not reading your posts, because what you say does not make sense.
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I made a typo, obviously Judas is the thief.

You are twisting what I say, It was God's plan to save mankind and Judas was part of that plan.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#298
#298
PS said:
I made a typo, obviously Judas is the thief.

You are twisting what I say, It was God's plan to save mankind and Judas was part of that plan.
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I am not twisting anything.

yes it was gods plan to save mankind. that does not mean he ever saved Judas.. he used him, but you have failed to prove he ever saved him!
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#299
Jan 11, 2013
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#299
eternally-gratefull said:
Talk about not reading what he said. He never said HE ONLY CAME FOR THEM. He asked you if they lost there salvation. did they? is that why they were lost?

As Abiding said earlier. You need to get better arguments, your arguments against OSAS are seriously flawed!
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So you dispute Israel backslid!!

You have had it pal. They went away from God big time. You poor thing! I can't stop laughing at your nonsense.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#300
Jan 11, 2013
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#300
eternally-gratefull said:
I am not twisting anything.

yes it was gods plan to save mankind. that does not mean he ever saved Judas.. he used him, but you have failed to prove he ever saved him!
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I never said Jesus saved Judas, in fact Jesus said the opposite.
 
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