Heresy on Christianchat

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
6. Why does it condemn the making and adoration of images? (Ex. 20:4-5).

Exodus 20:4-5

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]“You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;[SUP]5 [/SUP]you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourthgenerations of those who hate Me...."

At first instance it would appear that this commandment imposes an absolute prohibition against the making and use of all images per se. However, a thorough examination of the Old Testament precludes such an interpretation, as this would necessitate God prohibiting what He allows and commands elsewhere, especially concerning the Temple of Jerusalem itself.
It follows that if the Commandments prohibited the making of images whatsoever, Protestants ought to remove and destroy all their statues of George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, and even Mount Rushmore, as well as burning all their pictures of relatives and friends. Common sense though tells us that such would be an absurd outcome.
The Catholic doctrine on the veneration of images was fully outlined by the second council of Nicaea in 787 AD:

"Proceeding as it were on the royal road and following the divinely inspired teaching of our holy Fathers, and the tradition of the Catholic Church (for we know that this tradition is of the Holy Spirit which dwells in the Church), we define with all care and exactitude, that the venerable and holy images are set up in just the same way as the figure of the precious and life-giving cross; painted images, and those in mosaic and those of other suitable materials, in the holy Churches of God, on holy vessels and vestments, on walls and in pictures, in houses and by the roadsides; images of our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ and of our undefiled Lady, the Holy God-bearer, and of the honorable angels, and of saintly and holy men. For the more frequently these are observed by means of such representations, so much the more will the beholders be aroused to recollect the originals and to long after them, and to pay the images the tribute of an embrace and a reverence of honor, not to pay to them the actual worshipwhich is according to our faith, and which is proper only to the divine nature: but as to the figure of the venerable and life-giving cross, and to the holy Gospels and to the other sacred monuments, so those images to accord the honor of incense and oblation of lights, as it has been the pious custom of antiquity. For the honor paid to the image passes to its original, and he that honors an image honors in it the person depicted thereby."

The real purpose of the commandment is to steer people of God away from idolatry, that is, the worship of any false God. Have a look at these following passages, brother:Deuteronomy 7:4-5

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]For they will turn your sons away from following Me, to serve other gods; so the anger of the Lord will be aroused against you and destroy you suddenly. [SUP]5 [/SUP]But thus you shall deal with them: you shall destroy their altars, and break down their sacred pillars, and cut down their wooden images,[SUP][a][/SUP] and burn their carved images with fire.

2 Kings 17:9-12

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Also the children of Israel secretly did against the Lord their God things that were not right, and they built for themselves high places in all their cities, from watchtower to fortified city. [SUP]10 [/SUP]They set up for themselves sacred pillars and wooden images[SUP][a][/SUP] on every high hill and under every green tree. [SUP]11 [/SUP]There they burned incense on all the high places, like the nations whom the Lord had carried away before them; and they did wicked things to provoke the Lord to anger, [SUP]12 [/SUP]for they served idols, of which the Lord had said to them, “You shall not do this thing.”

God obviously abhors idolatry; However, in the same scriptures we see Jews making statues for legitimate religious purposes, and under God's command:

Numbers 21:8-9

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]8 [/SUP]Then the Lord said to Moses, “Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and it shall be that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, shall live.” [SUP]9 [/SUP]So Moses made a bronze serpent, and put it on a pole; and so it was, if a serpent had bitten anyone, when he looked at the bronze serpent, he lived.


When the bronze serpent was later adored by the Jews, rather than simply venerated, it was destroyed:

2 Kings 18:4

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]He removed the high places and broke the sacred pillars, cut down the wooden image[SUP][a][/SUP]and broke in pieces the bronze serpent that Moses had made; for until those days the children of Israel burned incense to it, and called it Nehushtan.[SUP][b]
[/SUP]

In the construction of the Ark of the Covenant God gave the following instructions:

Exodus 25:18-20

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]18 [/SUP]And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work you shall make them at the two ends of the mercy seat. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Make one cherub at one end, and the other cherub at the other end; you shall make the cherubim at the two ends of it of one piece with the mercy seat. [SUP]20 [/SUP]And the cherubim shall stretch out their wings above, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and they shall face one another; the faces of the cherubim shall be toward the mercy seat.


The Temple of Jerusalem was thoroughly decorated with statues of all kinds:

1 Kings 6:23

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]23 [/SUP]Inside the inner sanctuary he made two cherubim of olive wood, each ten cubits high.

1 Kings 6:26-27

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]26 [/SUP]The height of one cherub was ten cubits, and so was the other cherub. [SUP]27 [/SUP]Then he set the cherubim inside the inner room;[SUP][a][/SUP] and they stretched out the wings of the cherubim so that the wing of the one touched one wall, and the wing of the other cherub touched the other wall. And their wings touched each other in the middle of the room.

1 Kings 7:29

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]29 [/SUP]on the panels that were between the frames were lions, oxen, and cherubim. And on the frames was a pedestal on top. Below the lions and oxen were wreaths of plaited work.

1 Chronicles 28:18

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]18 [/SUP]and refined gold by weight for the altar of incense, and for the construction of the chariot, that is, the gold cherubim that spread their wings and overshadowed the ark of the covenant of the Lord.

2 Chronicles 3:10

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]In the Most Holy Place he made two cherubim, fashioned by carving, and overlaid them with gold.

2 Chronicles 4:3-4

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]3 [/SUP]And under it was the likeness of oxen encircling it all around, ten to a cubit, all the way around the Sea. The oxen were cast in two rows, when it was cast. [SUP]4 [/SUP]It stood on twelve oxen: three looking toward the north, three looking toward the west, three looking toward the south, and three looking toward the east; the Sea was set upon them, and all their back parts pointed inward.

Ezekiel 41:18

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]18 [/SUP]And it was made with cherubim and palm trees, a palm tree between cherub and cherub.Each cherub had two faces,


The Temple with all these statues was built by Solomon. What is particularly remarkable is that just after construction was begun, God spoke to Solomon as follows:

1 Kings 6:11-14

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]11 [/SUP]Then the word of the Lord came to Solomon, saying: [SUP]12 [/SUP]“Concerning this temple which you are building, if you walk in My statutes, execute My judgments, keep all My commandments, and walk in them, then I will perform My word with you, which I spoke to your father David.[SUP]13 [/SUP]And I will dwell among the children of Israel, and will not forsake My people Israel.”
[SUP]14 [/SUP]So Solomon built the temple and finished it.

What does Solomon do in the light of God's admonition to "walk in My statutes and obey my ordinances and keep all My commandments"? He carves statues for the house of the Lord, and to the Lord's delight!:

1 Kings 9:1-3

New King James Version (NKJV)

God’s Second Appearance to Solomon

9 And it came to pass, when Solomon had finished building the house of the Lord and the king’s house, and all Solomon’s desire which he wanted to do, [SUP]2 [/SUP]that the Lord appeared to Solomon the second time, as He had appeared to him at Gibeon. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And the Lord said to him: “I have heard your prayer and your supplication that you have made before Me; I have consecrated this house which you have built to put My name there forever, and My eyes and My heart will be there perpetually.

The ancient Jewish practice in this regard was very strict, for they were prone to imitate the idolatry of the pagans around them. The early Christians, who live in the age of the Incarnation, had no such difficulty. So the Catacombs are a treasury of paintings, gilded glasses, depicting scenes from the lives of Christ, His Mother, the Apostles and other persons of the Old and New Testaments. The mind of the early Christians was clearly a Catholic mind.
"The mind of the early Christians was clearly a Catholic mind" and a Jewish mind, from Peter onwards. It is a shame the Catholic Church continued in the Jewish tradition via the first Pope despite the warnings.

“Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry” (1 Corinthians 10:14).

“Little children, keep yourselves from idols” (1 John 5:21)

“We know that an idol is nothing in the world” (1 Corinthians 8:4)

Hopefully you will see the same pomp, ceremony and dress and attitudes in the Catholic Church today.


LevitePriest.jpg
 
Last edited:
7

7seven7

Guest
The following list give a summation. If the Bible is a Catholic book,
1. Why does it condemn clerical dress? (Matt. 23:5-6).
2. Why does it teach against the adoration of Mary? (Luke 11:27-28).
3. Why does it show that all Christians are priests? (1 Pet. 2:5,9).
4. Why does it condemn the observance of special days? (Gal. 4:9-11).
5. Why does it teach that all Christians are saints? (1 Cor. 1:2).
6. Why does it condemn the making and adoration of images? (Ex. 20:4-5).
7. Why does it teach that baptism is immersion instead of pouring? (Col. 2:12).
8. Why does it forbid us to address religious leaders as "father"? (Matt. 23:9).
9. Why does it teach that Christ is the only foundation and not the apostle Peter? (1 Cor. 3:11).
10. Why does it teach that there is one mediator instead of many? (1 Tim. 2:5).
11. Why does it teach that a bishop must be a married man? (1 Tim. 3:2, 4-5).
12. Why is it opposed to the primacy of Peter? (Luke 22:24-27).
13. Why does it oppose the idea of purgatory? (Luke 16:26).
14. Why is it completely silent about infant baptism, instrumental music in worship, indulgences, confession to priests, the rosary, the mass, and many other things in the Catholic Church?

Massive list of Roman Catholic False doctrines
7. Why does it teach that baptism is immersion instead of pouring? (Col. 2:12).

[h=3]Colossians 2:12[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]12 [/SUP]buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This verse doesn't state that Baptism is immersion instead of pouring. Nevertheless, it is true that the usual meaning of baptism (greek: baptizien) is immersion, and for centuries immersion was the common form of Christian Baptism. However, simply because immersion was the common practice does not mean that other methods were unlawful or invalid.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Acts of the Apostles relates how St. Paul was Baptized in a house (9:17-18), while St. Peter Baptized numerous people in the house of Cornelius (10:47-48). Now, archaeologists would testify that bathing tubs were not usual fixtures in the homes of the ancients. It is also highly doubtful that there was sufficient open water to Baptize by immersion the 3000 who converted to the Lord after St. Peter's first sermon (2:41). All these were probably Baptized by pouring or sprinkling, just as were thousands of others according to the earliest Christian mosaics, paintings and engravings in the Catacombs and ancient Churches. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Besides this, brothers and sisters, to insist on full immersion leads to situations in whichpeople are denied Baptism. Those living in climatic extremes such as deserts would find it difficult to always procure enough water to fully immerse an adult, while it would be impossible for those rendered bed-ridden by illness to be Baptized. Eusebius relates that the heretic Novation "received Baptism in the bed where he lay, by pouring." After all, water poured on the body retains the symbolism of washing. I hope this explains our position to you enough for you to understand.
[/FONT]
I will continue this tomorrow (if I don't forget, I have alot going on at the moment, brother). But I like the next question because it was one of my main concerns and one of the SDA's biggest selling points to me when I nearly converted to them in prison. And one of the starting points of when I began realising that Catholicism really wasn't what everybody had me convinced it was. If I don't answer tomorrow, I will on Wednesday for sure. God bless, and thanks for your patience.
Your brother in Christ,
Charlie.
 
7

7seven7

Guest
"The mind of the early Christians was clearly a Catholic mind" and a Jewish mind, from Peter onwards. It is a shame the Catholic Church continued in the Jewish tradition via the first Pope despite the warnings.

“Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry” (1 Corinthians 10:14).

“Little children, keep yourselves from idols” (1 John 5:21)

“We know that an idol is nothing in the world” (1 Corinthians 8:4)

Hopefully you will see the same pomp, ceremony and dress and attitudes in the Catholic Church today.


View attachment 42563
Hey, I'm just wondering why you're so concerned about the dress code? I've answered that part anyway, but just wondering.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
Hey, I'm just wondering why you're so concerned about the dress code? I've answered that part anyway, but just wondering.
The dress code shows the link between the Levite Priests and the Catholic Church which is understandable considering the connection Peter had with Judaism. It is from Judaism that the Catholic tradition has come from and it is this tradition that was instigated by the Priests which was followed so closely by the Pharisees who Jesus called a generation of vipers.

Catholics follow this priestly man-made tradition introduced into the Catholic Church by Peter which was so beloved by the Pharisees and indeed many Jews today also and this is how Catholicism has become contaminated with man-made tradition, whereas Protestants generally follow the teaching of Jesus only, believing that true faith is of the heart and not outward show, symbolism, pomp and ceremony.
 
7

7seven7

Guest
The dress code shows the link between the Levite Priests and the Catholic Church which is understandable considering the connection Peter had with Judaism. It is from Judaism that the Catholic tradition has come from and it is this tradition that was instigated by the Priests which was followed so closely by the Pharisees who Jesus called a generation of vipers.

Catholics follow this priestly man-made tradition introduced into the Catholic Church by Peter which was so beloved by the Pharisees and indeed many Jews today also and this is how Catholicism has become contaminated with man-made tradition, whereas Protestants generally follow the teaching of Jesus only, believing that true faith is of the heart and not outward show, symbolism, pomp and ceremony.
How did you work all this out? Where did you research all this? And what part of the tradition are you talking about? Anything significant?
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
How did you work all this out? Where did you research all this?
I didn't research it, not specifically anyway, it is just accumulated knowledge over a lifetime of study, with the occasional break in my youth, marriage and family life of course. :)
 
7

7seven7

Guest
I didn't research it, not specifically anyway, it is just accumulated knowledge over a lifetime of study, with the occasional break in my youth, marriage and family life of course. :)
Ok, I understand, but what parts of our tradition are you talking spefically when you say have been adopted from the Jewish traditions?
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
Ok, I understand, but what parts of our tradition are you talking spefically when you say have been adopted from the Jewish traditions?
I'm talking about anything that takes our eyes away from Jesus, the pomp and ceremony, incense, candles and fine buildings for example.

Someone once said that religion is what man does for his god, while Christianity is what God has done for man.

I see a lot of 'religion' in Catholicism with the emphasis on the priest and the Pope rather than on Jesus and anything that takes us away from the founder of our faith cannot be a good thing.
 
Last edited:
7

7seven7

Guest
I'm talking about anything that takes our eyes away from Jesus, the pomp and ceremony, incense, candles and fine buildings for example.

Someone once said that religion is what man does for his god, while Christianity is what God has done for man.

I see a lot of 'religion' in Catholicism with the emphasis on the priest and the Pope rather than on Jesus and anything that takes us away from the founder of our faith cannot be a good thing.
Brother, I've seen the same thing in the Catholic Church, the Protestant Church, the Orthodox Church. For some people the Church buildings MIGHT take their focus away from Christ, and I can't tell you why, just like for some people, the teachings of the Protestant Church tell them its ok to sleep around, and you can't tell me why. But I promise you, brother, the ceremony, incense, candles and fine buildings do nothing like take our concentration off Christ. Again, you're speculating on maybe a few cases, I don't know, but if I were to start speculating on the Protestant Church, then we could do this for days. The ceremonies started way back in the early church. Simple as that. And don't forget, not everything we inherited from the Jews is a bad thing. Like the Commandments for example. I'll continue answering your questions tomorrow on that survey you asked me to complete. God bless.

BTW, who said this, "Someone once said that religion is what man does for his god, while Christianity is what God has done for man.?" Was it anyone of any significance?
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
Brother, I've seen the same thing in the Catholic Church, the Protestant Church, the Orthodox Church. For some people the Church buildings MIGHT take their focus away from Christ, and I can't tell you why, just like for some people, the teachings of the Protestant Church tell them its ok to sleep around, and you can't tell me why. But I promise you, brother, the ceremony, incense, candles and fine buildings do nothing like take our concentration off Christ. Again, you're speculating on maybe a few cases, I don't know, but if I were to start speculating on the Protestant Church, then we could do this for days. The ceremonies started way back in the early church. Simple as that. And don't forget, not everything we inherited from the Jews is a bad thing. Like the Commandments for example. I'll continue answering your questions tomorrow on that survey you asked me to complete. God bless.

BTW, who said this, "Someone once said that religion is what man does for his god, while Christianity is what God has done for man.?" Was it anyone of any significance?
I forget who said it. I started to write a paper for you but it is far from finished, this is the first page:

An example of the Popes power can be seen in the reign of King John. The Pope placed England under an interdict, he suspended all religious services including baptisms, marriages and burials and King John was excommunicated. When the Pope threatened King John with deposition and ruin the king had no choice but to submit to the Pope whose army was already in England and ready to take over the throne.

John agreed to receive Stephen Langton as Archbishop, he agreed to reinstate the exiled clergy and to compensate the church in full for its losses and he agreed to hold the kingdom as a fief of the papacy.

King John resigned the Kingdoms of England and Ireland to the Pope and received them back under a bond of fealty and homage in return for a tribute of 1,000 marks to be paid to the Catholic church every year. As a result for the next 150 years successive English Monarchs had to pay an annual monetary tribute to the Pope. This momentous concession was solemnly ratified in St Paul's Cathedral in the presence of Nicholas Cardinal Bishop of Tusculum on the 3rd October and sealed with a Golden Bull.

Shortly after the Pope gained supremacy over King John the first friars entered England in 1221 and forty-three English houses of the Dominicans alone were soon established. Their black cloak and hood caused them to be dubbed the Black Friars. They soon became powerful and began to attack the constitutions of Oxford University, claiming independence from its jurisdiction through the Pope.

Almost immediately it became apparent that some of the friars were acting contrary to their vow of poverty. They made use of their position for “purposes of filthy gain” and as early as 1233 we find Gregory IX sharply reminding the Dominican chapter-general that the poverty professed by the Order should be genuine and not fictitious.

John Wycliffe who was living at the same time as the Peasants Revolt, emerged from obscurity and commenced his opposition to the Mendicants that same year in 1360. Beginning at Oxford he gave a series of public lectures to correct the abuses of the clergy and their open wickedness. King Edward III supported him and remained a most valiant champion of the truth among the tyrants of Sodom.” He began by challenging the pardon-mongers of Rome and the heresy of “the power of the keys” which gave the Pope the power to pardon sin so that evil men could enter heaven on the basis of small pieces of paper carried by the Mendicant (begging) Friars which they sold for a piece of silver, thereby robbing people with worthless promises

As early as 1233 there were many mendicant (begging) Friars roaming around in disorderly fashion, brazen and shameless beggars of scandalous fame. The monks were frequently guilty of forgery and violence they were guilty of brawling, frequenting taverns, indulging in licentious pleasures and upholding unlawful games. In 1257 St. Bonaventura admitted the contempt and dislike felt universally for the Order, caused by its greedy self-seeking after money, the idleness of so many of its vagabond friars who entered into all manner of vices and excesses leaving behind them the memory of scandals rather than examples of virtue. The persistent beggary of the friar rendered him more terrible than any robber was to the wayfarer.

When challenged the Pope remained unmoved for the friars were indispensable to him. They had been created by him, they were dependent upon him, they lived for him and they were his obsequious tools. Weighed against the services they were rendering to the Papal throne, what was happening in England was “as dust in the balance.” Not a finger must be lifted to curtail the privileges or check the abuses of the Mendicants.
 
Last edited:

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
15,464
212
63
7seven7 when you are finished with those questions I have one that I thought of. Oh and Charlie I am Howard it has been great to meet you and hear your love of God especially the reception of it as in 1Cor 13.

I am not sure if this is a Question in the questions you are responding to.
You had mentioned that if a person is a believer and goes out and kills and thus dies are they still saved?
my Question is this does the Catholic Church still believe that if one is not prayed up confessed their sins to the priest that if they die before they confess that they are lost not saved? Is this what you beleive and is this what they believe?
Thanks in advance Charlie
 
Jan 11, 2013
2,256
17
0
my Question is this does the Catholic Church still believe that if one is not prayed up confessed their sins to the priest that if they die before they confess that they are lost not saved? Is this what you beleive and is this what they believe?
Thanks in advance Charlie
I think in catholic theology that would be covered by the belief of purgatory, though I am no expert in catholocism
 
T

TosinAsLeader

Guest

LOL!! Now here's a 16 year old with faith, brothers and sisters!!! Little brother, don't ever lose that simplicity, cz its people like you to whom the Kingdom of God belongs!! God bless you
Same to you with opening greetings! You can be under the pentacostal church and still not have G-d.
 
G

Graybeard

Guest
I have wondered if Catholics are perhaps right, but what concerns me are some practices that appear to defy what is written in scripture, for example:

Code:
Exo 20:4  Thou shalt [B]not make unto thee any graven image[/B], or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 
Exo 20:5  [B]Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them[/B], nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Code:
Deu 4:16  Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, [B]the likeness of male or female[/B],
Why have Catholics made statues of Jesus and Mary....and these are bowed down to.

Code:
Mat 23:9  [B]Do not call anyone on earth your father[/B]; [B]for One is your Father[/B], He who is in heaven
Catholics call their priest Father....I don't get it.

Code:
Jas 5:16  Confess your trespasses to [B]one another[/B],.....
so why do Catholic have a booth that they go into and confess their sins to someone they call "Father" and this they do in a booth so that it is secret??
There are answers to your question here, brother, and I will be more than happy to answer them for you. Just not tonight lol I'm real tired and they're going to be pretty lengthy, so I will answer them tomorrow for you. Peace
still waiting boet..
 
G

Graybeard

Guest
I have to say I was watching the Pope and the peoples reactions on CNN today and would have to come to the conclusion that the people were worshipping him, you see the same at music festivals with celebrities...Idol worship, one can't dispute reality.
 
7

7seven7

Guest
still waiting boet..
lol Ok, brother, I have already answered the first 2 in my reply to PS, and I'm about to answer the "father" one. PLEASE DON'T MAKE ME WRITE THEM OUT AGAIN!! I'M GETTING A COMPLEX!!! lol
 
7

7seven7

Guest
Same to you with opening greetings! You can be under the pentacostal church and still not have G-d.
AMEN!! You can be a highly regarded Preacher, Priest, nun or a normal bloke on CC and still not have God! But I can see that you know Him! May He bless you and CONTINUE to guide you!
 
7

7seven7

Guest
7seven7 when you are finished with those questions I have one that I thought of. Oh and Charlie I am Howard it has been great to meet you and hear your love of God especially the reception of it as in 1Cor 13.

I am not sure if this is a Question in the questions you are responding to.
You had mentioned that if a person is a believer and goes out and kills and thus dies are they still saved?
my Question is this does the Catholic Church still believe that if one is not prayed up confessed their sins to the priest that if they die before they confess that they are lost not saved? Is this what you beleive and is this what they believe?
Thanks in advance Charlie
Yes, brother, I will answer that just as soon as I finish PS' quiz. lol Please remind me if I forget. I never ignore intentionally, like others think I do lol And Howard, the reason I really enjoy chatting with you is because your comments are always educated and not just made in spite. Thankyou for teaching me and allowing me to enter a little into your awesome wisdom. God bless you. Get back to you soon. Please pray for my uncle, he just passed away on Friday. Thank you!
 
7

7seven7

Guest
The following list give a summation. If the Bible is a Catholic book,
1. Why does it condemn clerical dress? (Matt. 23:5-6).
2. Why does it teach against the adoration of Mary? (Luke 11:27-28).
3. Why does it show that all Christians are priests? (1 Pet. 2:5,9).
4. Why does it condemn the observance of special days? (Gal. 4:9-11).
5. Why does it teach that all Christians are saints? (1 Cor. 1:2).
6. Why does it condemn the making and adoration of images? (Ex. 20:4-5).
7. Why does it teach that baptism is immersion instead of pouring? (Col. 2:12).
8. Why does it forbid us to address religious leaders as "father"? (Matt. 23:9).
9. Why does it teach that Christ is the only foundation and not the apostle Peter? (1 Cor. 3:11).
10. Why does it teach that there is one mediator instead of many? (1 Tim. 2:5).
11. Why does it teach that a bishop must be a married man? (1 Tim. 3:2, 4-5).
12. Why is it opposed to the primacy of Peter? (Luke 22:24-27).
13. Why does it oppose the idea of purgatory? (Luke 16:26).
14. Why is it completely silent about infant baptism, instrumental music in worship, indulgences, confession to priests, the rosary, the mass, and many other things in the Catholic Church?

Massive list of Roman Catholic False doctrines
PS, you're really making me work here lol but it's all good, cz I'm learning aswell.


8. Why does it forbid us to address religious leaders as "father"? (Matt. 23:9).

Matthew 23:9

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.


The above quote from the Gospel of St. Matthew must be read in the context of the whole of chapter 23, in which our Lord Jesus Christ denounces the pride and hypocrisy of the Scribes and Pharisees, the contrast between their words and actions (v. 3), the heavy burdens they placed of the shoulders of the people without giving any assistance (v. 4) and their love to be seen and praised (vv. 5-7).
Our Lord used this hyperbole to provide a lesson in humility, exhorting His followers to realise that only the Heavenly Father is the genuine Father, while all others simply partake, or reveal a part, of His Fatherhood. Those in positions of power are not to lord it over others, imposing impossible burdens while seeking public recognition and praise, Christ concluded His admonitios, saying, " whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted" (v. 12).
A literal understanding of our Lord's words would lead to an absurd conclusion, prohibiting us from calling our natural fathers "father," while allowing us to call our mothers "mother." Yet, such an interpretation would go against scripture itself, where Our Lady says to the Child Jesus: "Son, why have you treated us so? Behold, your father and I have been looking for you anxiously" (St. Luke 2:48). It would also prevent us from calling anyone "teacher" for Our Lord warned equally against the use of this title as well: "But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all bretheren" (St. Matt. 23:8)
St. Paul confirms that there are various types of fatherhood, all of which are based on the Fatherhood of God: "For this cause I bow my kneesto the Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ, of whom all paternity in heaven and on earth is named" (Eph. 3:15). Abraham is acknowledged as the father of allwho have faith in numerous passages, even in the New Law:
Luke 16:30

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]30 [/SUP]And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’
John 8:56

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]56 [/SUP]Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”
Acts 7:2

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]2 [/SUP]And he said, “Brethren and fathers, listen: The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Haran,
Romans 4:11

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]11 [/SUP]And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also,
James 2:21

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?

AND!!!

St. Paul addressed a crowd in Jerusalem as follows:
Acts 22:1New King James Version (NKJV)

22 “Brethren and fathers, hear my defense before you now.”

St. Paul also applies the term "father" to himself, while on more than one occasion he writes to his own as if they were his children- 1Cor. 4:14-15, 2Cor. 12:14, Phil. 2:22, 1 Thes. 2:11, 1Tim. 1:2, Tit. 1:4, Phile. 1:10.

From these verses it is evident that the title "father" was used not with any sense of pride, but rather to engender tenderness and affection within spiritual relationships. The Catholic Church wishes her children to act in the same way when addressing those who partake in God's Fatherhood through preaching the Gospel and sanctifying the faithful.



9. Why does it teach that Christ is the only foundation and not the apostle Peter? (1 Cor. 3:11).

1 Corinthians 3:11

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]11 [/SUP]For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

MY ANSWER:

Matthew 16:18-20

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]18 [/SUP]And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

Straight from the mouth of Jesus.




10. Why does it teach that there is one mediator instead of many? (1 Tim. 2:5).
1 Timothy 2:5

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

Understood properly, Christ is the one mediator of redemption, for there is no other name under Heaven by which man is saved. Nevertheless, this does not prevent others from acting as intercessors of prayer. St. Paul says to St. Timothy, "First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way.This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour" (2:1-3). Christian intercessory prayer is only possible because Christ is the one Mediator who allows us to go boldly into the Father's presence through Him.
Furthermore, Scripture itself attests that the Holy Spirit "intercedes with sighs too deep for words" (Rom. 8:26). The Virgin Mary interceded with Christat the wedding of Cana (St. John 2:1-10). Abraham interceded on behalf of Sodom and Gomorra (Gen. 18:16-32). An angel interceded on behalf of Jerusalem (Zech. 1:12). The "Lord accepted the intercessions of Job" after he had prayed for his friends (Job 42:7-10).

Finally, PS, brother, angels likewise act as intercessors:
Revelation 8:3-4

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Then another angel, having a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. [SUP]4 [/SUP]And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, ascended before God from the angel’s hand.

Nobody is trying to place someone in the place of Christ our Lord, PS. God bless and guide you always. I might have a break and say a little prayer. Questions 8, 9, and 10 are answered here for you.