-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
You may need to retread your post. "This would mean to many God is dead" if ppl believe that then wouldn't they think those who believe they ceased feel He is dead?
I've had many experiences In life. I've had many feelings and emotions. Yet scripture doesn't tell us to rely on experience or feel good moments as truth.
Scripture does foretell the ceasing of gifts and wonders. Why do people forget that?
I've had many experiences In life. I've had many feelings and emotions. Yet scripture doesn't tell us to rely on experience or feel good moments as truth.
Scripture does foretell the ceasing of gifts and wonders. Why do people forget that?
.......... I never said the bible is about me, and if God has done to me the same thing he has done for them....... then God is still doing it today for all who believe.... don't be a hater.... I know God on a very personal level and because he is in me as he promised he would by His Holy Spirit.... what I say as long as it line up with the Word of God.... my dreams are as good as those who are in scriptures...... Praise be to God
Many false brethren are have crept into the Body of Yeshua, and this must needs be in order to prove who is faithful. Yahweh is Almighty. I have experienced, though not multitudes, miracles and my loving Father has spoken even to me on a few occasions, just for me, and nothing that will change the course of faith in others. Now I will say this, anyone who does not believe God can and does speak to His children and performs miracles is very odd as a self-proclaiming believer. If you believe the element of those who believe God is active in this manner are somehow deluded or lost, this is your thinking, but it is not going to change the relationship God has with His children. Again, I said many, however it is probably all who think God does not talk or act today. What kind of Father do you suppose believer have Who is not with His Children? I am very sorry your many experiences in life do not include a relationship with personal contact with our Maker, but most believers do have this relationship. May God open your eyes to this, in Jesus Christ's name, amen.
Once more you have added to what is stated, no one has stated God is closer to those to whom He has spoken. No one has stated miracles and wonders add credibility to one's faith, you have come up with these twists to what is posted. The OP is simply about dreams, visons, prophecy, and revlation, and I have remained on topic. You seem to be in some kind of bind when it comes to sticking to what people post, say or share. Sorry your are not understanding others at all.
I don't respond well to arrogance. I've stayed on topic. Seems others here agree with my posts as well.
My understanding is fine. YOU may not agree with me or others, but you have no right to criticize others understanding.
Dreams, visions and prophecy that comes from God is a gift. It is supernatural and can only be given by Him. The ability to foretell the future is from God. One does not naturally have this. Same with dreams and so on. If I choose to put others gifts in with dreams and visions I will. If dreams and visions and prophecy has ceased then(like scripture says) other things have as well.
Also, if the OP feels I'm derailing his thread then he can address me and ask me to refrain. You diverting attention and directing it to me stating that I am not on topic and I don't understand is obviously a direct comment toward me and not toward the subject of the thread either.
My understanding is fine. YOU may not agree with me or others, but you have no right to criticize others understanding.
Dreams, visions and prophecy that comes from God is a gift. It is supernatural and can only be given by Him. The ability to foretell the future is from God. One does not naturally have this. Same with dreams and so on. If I choose to put others gifts in with dreams and visions I will. If dreams and visions and prophecy has ceased then(like scripture says) other things have as well.
Also, if the OP feels I'm derailing his thread then he can address me and ask me to refrain. You diverting attention and directing it to me stating that I am not on topic and I don't understand is obviously a direct comment toward me and not toward the subject of the thread either.
jack, we should perhaps be careful about our terms
Miracles or Providence?
Definition of Miracles
Grudem defines a miracle as follows:
"A miracle is a less common kind of God's activity in which he arouses people's awe and wonder and bears witness to himself. He justifies this definition by awe, or amazement in such a way that God bears witness to himself (Systematic Theology, chapter 52).
...pointing out the deficiencies in other commonly proposed definitions:
"For example, one definition of miracles is "a direct intervention of God in the world. But this definition assumes a deistic view of God's relationship to the world, in which the world continues on its own and God only intervenes in it occasionally. This is certainly not the biblical view, according to which God makes the rain to fall (Matt. 5:45), causes the grass to grow (Ps. 104:14), and continually carries along all things by his word and power (Heb. 1:3).
another definition of miracles is "a more direct activity of God in the world. But to talk about a "more direct working of God suggests that his ordinary providential activity is somehow not 'direct, and again hints at a sort of deistic removal of God from the world.
Another definition is "God working in the world without using means to bring about the results he wishes.? Yet to speak of God working "without means? leaves us with very few if any miracles in the Bible, for it is hard to think of a miracle that came about with no means at all: in the healing of people, for example, some of the physical properties of the sick person's body were doubtless involved as part of the healing. When Jesus multiplied the loaves and fishes, he at least used the original five loaves and two fishes that were there. When he changed water to wine, he used water and made it become wine. This definition seems to be inadequate.
Yet another definition of miracle is "an exception to a natural law or "God acting contrary to the laws of nature. But the phrase 'laws of nature in popular understanding implies that there are certain qualities inherent in the things that exist, 'laws of nature which operate independently of God and that God must intervene or "break these laws in order for a miracle to occur. Once again this definition does not adequately account for the biblical teaching on providence.
Another definition of miracle is, "an event impossible to explain by natural causes. This definition is inadequate because
(1) it does not include God as the one who brings about the miracle;
(2) it assumes that God does not use some natural causes when he works in an unusual or amazing way, and thus it assumes again that God only occasionally intervenes in the world; and
(3) it will result in a significant minimizing of actual miracles, and an increase in skepticism, since many times when God works in answer to prayer the result is amazing to those who prayed but it is not absolutely impossible to explain by natural causes, especially for a skeptic who simply refuses to see God's hand at work.
Therefore, the original definition given above, where a miracle is simply a less common way of God's working in the world, seems to be preferable and more consistent with the biblical doctrine of God's providence. This definition does not say that a miracle is a different kind of working by God, but only that it is a less common way of God's working, and that it is done so as to arouse people's surprise.
Surprised by the Power of the Spirit, by Jack Deere (Grand Rapids: Zondervan Publishing House, 1993), pp. 270-271
Definition of Miracles | Bible.org - Worlds Largest Bible Study Site < click
i'm going to swipe a bit from the above and suggest it is an important thing to think about when we relate personal experiences or encounters with God in His Providence, and His personal care for us, applying the Biblical term Miracles when we ought not:
......will result in a significant minimizing of actual miracles, and an increase in skepticism, since many times when God works in answer to prayer the result is amazing to those who prayed but it is not absolutely impossible to explain by natural causes, especially for a skeptic who simply refuses to see God's hand at work.
if we look at miracles such as parting the red sea and Jesus walking on water and elijah and so on, we perhaps ought to use a little more care.
love zone
Miracles or Providence?
Definition of Miracles
Grudem defines a miracle as follows:
"A miracle is a less common kind of God's activity in which he arouses people's awe and wonder and bears witness to himself. He justifies this definition by awe, or amazement in such a way that God bears witness to himself (Systematic Theology, chapter 52).
...pointing out the deficiencies in other commonly proposed definitions:
"For example, one definition of miracles is "a direct intervention of God in the world. But this definition assumes a deistic view of God's relationship to the world, in which the world continues on its own and God only intervenes in it occasionally. This is certainly not the biblical view, according to which God makes the rain to fall (Matt. 5:45), causes the grass to grow (Ps. 104:14), and continually carries along all things by his word and power (Heb. 1:3).
another definition of miracles is "a more direct activity of God in the world. But to talk about a "more direct working of God suggests that his ordinary providential activity is somehow not 'direct, and again hints at a sort of deistic removal of God from the world.
Another definition is "God working in the world without using means to bring about the results he wishes.? Yet to speak of God working "without means? leaves us with very few if any miracles in the Bible, for it is hard to think of a miracle that came about with no means at all: in the healing of people, for example, some of the physical properties of the sick person's body were doubtless involved as part of the healing. When Jesus multiplied the loaves and fishes, he at least used the original five loaves and two fishes that were there. When he changed water to wine, he used water and made it become wine. This definition seems to be inadequate.
Yet another definition of miracle is "an exception to a natural law or "God acting contrary to the laws of nature. But the phrase 'laws of nature in popular understanding implies that there are certain qualities inherent in the things that exist, 'laws of nature which operate independently of God and that God must intervene or "break these laws in order for a miracle to occur. Once again this definition does not adequately account for the biblical teaching on providence.
Another definition of miracle is, "an event impossible to explain by natural causes. This definition is inadequate because
(1) it does not include God as the one who brings about the miracle;
(2) it assumes that God does not use some natural causes when he works in an unusual or amazing way, and thus it assumes again that God only occasionally intervenes in the world; and
(3) it will result in a significant minimizing of actual miracles, and an increase in skepticism, since many times when God works in answer to prayer the result is amazing to those who prayed but it is not absolutely impossible to explain by natural causes, especially for a skeptic who simply refuses to see God's hand at work.
Therefore, the original definition given above, where a miracle is simply a less common way of God's working in the world, seems to be preferable and more consistent with the biblical doctrine of God's providence. This definition does not say that a miracle is a different kind of working by God, but only that it is a less common way of God's working, and that it is done so as to arouse people's surprise.
Surprised by the Power of the Spirit, by Jack Deere (Grand Rapids: Zondervan Publishing House, 1993), pp. 270-271
Definition of Miracles | Bible.org - Worlds Largest Bible Study Site < click
i'm going to swipe a bit from the above and suggest it is an important thing to think about when we relate personal experiences or encounters with God in His Providence, and His personal care for us, applying the Biblical term Miracles when we ought not:
......will result in a significant minimizing of actual miracles, and an increase in skepticism, since many times when God works in answer to prayer the result is amazing to those who prayed but it is not absolutely impossible to explain by natural causes, especially for a skeptic who simply refuses to see God's hand at work.
if we look at miracles such as parting the red sea and Jesus walking on water and elijah and so on, we perhaps ought to use a little more care.
love zone
Last edited:
So called believers? Who are YOU to determine someone else's relationship with God?
No one here who agrees with the OP has once referred to you or others as "so called believers".
How dare you question others salvation because they don't see things the way you do. You even said I misunderstood when I said gifts and wonders doesnt give us salvation. Now me and others who believe in the ceasing of things are called "so called believers in God?"
You're way out of line.
No one here who agrees with the OP has once referred to you or others as "so called believers".
How dare you question others salvation because they don't see things the way you do. You even said I misunderstood when I said gifts and wonders doesnt give us salvation. Now me and others who believe in the ceasing of things are called "so called believers in God?"
You're way out of line.
Does God's word tell you to quit your job in faith and work elsewhere? No. Does the Word tell you to turn down two job offers because a third is coming even though it seems doubtful? No. Does God's word tell you that a specific person has been deceiving you and to remove them from your life? No. Get what I mean? I am talking specific answers to specific situations to a specific person. THAT personal.
Accusing another of holding the Word in low regard indirectly or unintentionally because they don't agree with you and your perspective? Ok. God's word is of the highest regard to me next to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and my first source for any answers I seek. You talk like people who say they have had dreams from God lay around all day sleeping trying to get an answer from a dream. That IS NOT the case and when I have these dreams I don't ask for them, they just happen and when I least expect it. I do not go day to day seeking a sign, an evil and adulterous generation seeks a sign as Jesus said. You are going to think what you want to think regardless though.
Accusing another of holding the Word in low regard indirectly or unintentionally because they don't agree with you and your perspective? Ok. God's word is of the highest regard to me next to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and my first source for any answers I seek. You talk like people who say they have had dreams from God lay around all day sleeping trying to get an answer from a dream. That IS NOT the case and when I have these dreams I don't ask for them, they just happen and when I least expect it. I do not go day to day seeking a sign, an evil and adulterous generation seeks a sign as Jesus said. You are going to think what you want to think regardless though.
jack, we should perhaps be careful about our terms
Miracles or Providence?
Definition of Miracles
Grudem defines a miracle as follows:
"A miracle is a less common kind of God's activity in which he arouses people's awe and wonder and bears witness to himself. He justifies this definition by awe, or amazement in such a way that God bears witness to himself (Systematic Theology, chapter 52).
...pointing out the deficiencies in other commonly proposed definitions:
"For example, one definition of miracles is "a direct intervention of God in the world. But this definition assumes a deistic view of God's relationship to the world, in which the world continues on its own and God only intervenes in it occasionally. This is certainly not the biblical view, according to which God makes the rain to fall (Matt. 5:45), causes the grass to grow (Ps. 104:14), and continually carries along all things by his word and power (Heb. 1:3).
another definition of miracles is "a more direct activity of God in the world. But to talk about a "more direct working of God suggests that his ordinary providential activity is somehow not 'direct, and again hints at a sort of deistic removal of God from the world.
Another definition is "God working in the world without using means to bring about the results he wishes.? Yet to speak of God working "without means? leaves us with very few if any miracles in the Bible, for it is hard to think of a miracle that came about with no means at all: in the healing of people, for example, some of the physical properties of the sick person's body were doubtless involved as part of the healing. When Jesus multiplied the loaves and fishes, he at least used the original five loaves and two fishes that were there. When he changed water to wine, he used water and made it become wine. This definition seems to be inadequate.
Yet another definition of miracle is "an exception to a natural law or "God acting contrary to the laws of nature. But the phrase 'laws of nature in popular understanding implies that there are certain qualities inherent in the things that exist, 'laws of nature which operate independently of God and that God must intervene or "break these laws in order for a miracle to occur. Once again this definition does not adequately account for the biblical teaching on providence.
Another definition of miracle is, "an event impossible to explain by natural causes. This definition is inadequate because
(1) it does not include God as the one who brings about the miracle;
(2) it assumes that God does not use some natural causes when he works in an unusual or amazing way, and thus it assumes again that God only occasionally intervenes in the world; and
(3) it will result in a significant minimizing of actual miracles, and an increase in skepticism, since many times when God works in answer to prayer the result is amazing to those who prayed but it is not absolutely impossible to explain by natural causes, especially for a skeptic who simply refuses to see God's hand at work.
Therefore, the original definition given above, where a miracle is simply a less common way of God's working in the world, seems to be preferable and more consistent with the biblical doctrine of God's providence. This definition does not say that a miracle is a different kind of working by God, but only that it is a less common way of God's working, and that it is done so as to arouse people's surprise.
Surprised by the Power of the Spirit, by Jack Deere (Grand Rapids: Zondervan Publishing House, 1993), pp. 270-271
Definition of Miracles | Bible.org - Worlds Largest Bible Study Site < click
i'm going to swipe a bit from the above and suggest it is an important thing to think about when we relate personal experiences or encounters with God in His Providence, and His personal care for us, applying the Biblical term Miracles when we ought not:
......will result in a significant minimizing of actual miracles, and an increase in skepticism, since many times when God works in answer to prayer the result is amazing to those who prayed but it is not absolutely impossible to explain by natural causes, especially for a skeptic who simply refuses to see God's hand at work.
if we look at miracles such as parting the red sea and Jesus walking on water and elijah and so on, we perhaps ought to use a little more care.
love zone
Miracles or Providence?
Definition of Miracles
Grudem defines a miracle as follows:
"A miracle is a less common kind of God's activity in which he arouses people's awe and wonder and bears witness to himself. He justifies this definition by awe, or amazement in such a way that God bears witness to himself (Systematic Theology, chapter 52).
...pointing out the deficiencies in other commonly proposed definitions:
"For example, one definition of miracles is "a direct intervention of God in the world. But this definition assumes a deistic view of God's relationship to the world, in which the world continues on its own and God only intervenes in it occasionally. This is certainly not the biblical view, according to which God makes the rain to fall (Matt. 5:45), causes the grass to grow (Ps. 104:14), and continually carries along all things by his word and power (Heb. 1:3).
another definition of miracles is "a more direct activity of God in the world. But to talk about a "more direct working of God suggests that his ordinary providential activity is somehow not 'direct, and again hints at a sort of deistic removal of God from the world.
Another definition is "God working in the world without using means to bring about the results he wishes.? Yet to speak of God working "without means? leaves us with very few if any miracles in the Bible, for it is hard to think of a miracle that came about with no means at all: in the healing of people, for example, some of the physical properties of the sick person's body were doubtless involved as part of the healing. When Jesus multiplied the loaves and fishes, he at least used the original five loaves and two fishes that were there. When he changed water to wine, he used water and made it become wine. This definition seems to be inadequate.
Yet another definition of miracle is "an exception to a natural law or "God acting contrary to the laws of nature. But the phrase 'laws of nature in popular understanding implies that there are certain qualities inherent in the things that exist, 'laws of nature which operate independently of God and that God must intervene or "break these laws in order for a miracle to occur. Once again this definition does not adequately account for the biblical teaching on providence.
Another definition of miracle is, "an event impossible to explain by natural causes. This definition is inadequate because
(1) it does not include God as the one who brings about the miracle;
(2) it assumes that God does not use some natural causes when he works in an unusual or amazing way, and thus it assumes again that God only occasionally intervenes in the world; and
(3) it will result in a significant minimizing of actual miracles, and an increase in skepticism, since many times when God works in answer to prayer the result is amazing to those who prayed but it is not absolutely impossible to explain by natural causes, especially for a skeptic who simply refuses to see God's hand at work.
Therefore, the original definition given above, where a miracle is simply a less common way of God's working in the world, seems to be preferable and more consistent with the biblical doctrine of God's providence. This definition does not say that a miracle is a different kind of working by God, but only that it is a less common way of God's working, and that it is done so as to arouse people's surprise.
Surprised by the Power of the Spirit, by Jack Deere (Grand Rapids: Zondervan Publishing House, 1993), pp. 270-271
Definition of Miracles | Bible.org - Worlds Largest Bible Study Site < click
i'm going to swipe a bit from the above and suggest it is an important thing to think about when we relate personal experiences or encounters with God in His Providence, and His personal care for us, applying the Biblical term Miracles when we ought not:
......will result in a significant minimizing of actual miracles, and an increase in skepticism, since many times when God works in answer to prayer the result is amazing to those who prayed but it is not absolutely impossible to explain by natural causes, especially for a skeptic who simply refuses to see God's hand at work.
if we look at miracles such as parting the red sea and Jesus walking on water and elijah and so on, we perhaps ought to use a little more care.
love zone
HEIsRiSen,
no one is denying God answers prayer, and we see it unfold according to His will in our lives.
are your examples things others have told you were to happen to/for you?
do you mind if i ask which denomination you attend, if any?
could you choose one example and explain what happened, i.e:
"Does God's word tell you to quit your job in faith and work elsewhere? No."
no one is denying God answers prayer, and we see it unfold according to His will in our lives.
are your examples things others have told you were to happen to/for you?
do you mind if i ask which denomination you attend, if any?
could you choose one example and explain what happened, i.e:
"Does God's word tell you to quit your job in faith and work elsewhere? No."
If there is dialogue between two persons who are of the same faith they both are interested in what the other has to share. The Blood of Jesus Christ is for all who accept It in spirit and truth, for me, for you for all. I accept His gift to me, for without it, I would be lost. As for miracles, they occur, and even a child knows the difference between divine providence and a miracle. If you feel I am so incompetent as to not know when the Father is moving in my presence or that others are the same, this is your privilege as a free creature. I do know who is my family in the Only Begotten Son of God, all who confess He has come in the flesh, died and rose from the grave. I believe this, and I always will, for without this faith the Gospel is vanity, and the Gospel is not vanity. Miracles occur every moment, were our Father to take away His breath, all that is, including man would vanish.