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For those who believe that tongues and prophecy are no longer available to believers in the church because they are not needed, if these gifts were exercised by believers in any measure and in any part of the world today, you have said that would be not of God. Can you be so sure of this when there may be unbelievers in various parts of the world who do not have the scriptures available to them? Is it out of the norm of scriptural dogma for God to utilize these gifts with a specific purpose to convince some in unbelief that he wants to help in the time of their unbelief? Would God refuse to give a specific prophecy in the ears of those who do not believe so that when the prophecy came to past they would believe? Do you have the knowledge to understand the things that occupy the human heart that keeps it in unbelief?
God has a remedy and an answer to man's unbelief that involves his Son and who are we to determine what method God would use with those whom he has redeemed to draw others to the cross who live in unbelief. If a gift of tongues or a prophecy was used to convince the ears of unbelief, would we be so quick to determine it to be of the devil and not from God with the promise and intent to save the lost through the gospel? If God was to pour out his Spirit in these last days of the church in a manner that you condemn and some even mock, and he was going to heal masses of people because of his compassion and translate believers in the Spirit to various parts of the world before he comes back, are you going to be critical and mock what God does with his own purposed possession just because he did not use you in that fashion because of your own unbelief?
God has a remedy and an answer to man's unbelief that involves his Son and who are we to determine what method God would use with those whom he has redeemed to draw others to the cross who live in unbelief. If a gift of tongues or a prophecy was used to convince the ears of unbelief, would we be so quick to determine it to be of the devil and not from God with the promise and intent to save the lost through the gospel? If God was to pour out his Spirit in these last days of the church in a manner that you condemn and some even mock, and he was going to heal masses of people because of his compassion and translate believers in the Spirit to various parts of the world before he comes back, are you going to be critical and mock what God does with his own purposed possession just because he did not use you in that fashion because of your own unbelief?
Romans 8:11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Romans 8:9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.
John4:24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Romans 8:9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.
John4:24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
1Corinthians 2:10-16
[SUP]10[/SUP]these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. [SUP]11[/SUP]For what human being knows what is truly human except the human spirit that is within? So also no one comprehends what is truly God’s except the Spirit of God. [SUP]12[/SUP]Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit that is from God, so that we may understand the gifts bestowed on us by God. [SUP]13[/SUP]And we speak of these things in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual things to those who are spiritual.[SUP]*[/SUP] 14 Those who are unspiritual[SUP]*[/SUP] do not receive the gifts of God’s Spirit, for they are foolishness to them, and they are unable to understand them because they are discerned spiritually. [SUP]15[/SUP]Those who are spiritual discern all things, and they are themselves subject to no one else’s scrutiny. [SUP]16[/SUP] ‘For who has known the mind of the Lord
so as to instruct him?’
But we have the mind of Christ.
[SUP]10[/SUP]these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. [SUP]11[/SUP]For what human being knows what is truly human except the human spirit that is within? So also no one comprehends what is truly God’s except the Spirit of God. [SUP]12[/SUP]Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit that is from God, so that we may understand the gifts bestowed on us by God. [SUP]13[/SUP]And we speak of these things in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual things to those who are spiritual.[SUP]*[/SUP] 14 Those who are unspiritual[SUP]*[/SUP] do not receive the gifts of God’s Spirit, for they are foolishness to them, and they are unable to understand them because they are discerned spiritually. [SUP]15[/SUP]Those who are spiritual discern all things, and they are themselves subject to no one else’s scrutiny. [SUP]16[/SUP] ‘For who has known the mind of the Lord
so as to instruct him?’
But we have the mind of Christ.
of course i wouldn't discount that as a special circumstance.
so far i have yet to have any (none, not any, zero) real evidence provided.
its always anecdotes about unreached jungle tribes or such.
my question is....why did this movement begin in the nation which boasts the most bibles per capita than any other on earth.
and why did it begin in the 1800s, primarily the 1900s and full force in the 20th century.
why is it being spread by those who have bibles and supposedly know the Gospel?
it's entirely out of the norm throughout history.
no one but atheists deny the Providence of God working in everyone's life.
He can manouver someone into position to hear the Gospel.
this is and was always His Plan:
Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.
1 Corinthians 1:21
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
1 Corinthians 1:18
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
1 Corinthians 1:23
but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles
Romans 10:17
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.
Galatians 3:2
I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?
Hebrews 2:3
how shall we escape if we ignore so great a salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him.
Hebrews 4:2
For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed.
Acts 8:31
"How can I," he said, "unless someone explains it to me?" So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.
Ephesians 2:17
He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near.
Ephesians 4:21
when you heard about Christ and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus.
Titus 1:3
and which now at his appointed season he has brought to light through the preaching entrusted to me by the command of God our Savior
Colossians 1:6
In the same way, the gospel is bearing fruit and growing throughout the whole world--just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and truly understood God's grace.
Romans 10:14
How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?
Romans 10
17So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.
18But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have, for
“Their voice has gone out to all the earth,
and their words to the ends of the world.”
19But I ask, did Israel not understand? First Moses says,
“I will make you jealous of those who are not a nation;
with a foolish nation I will make you angry.”
20Then Isaiah is so bold as to say,
“I have been found by those who did not seek me;
I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me.”
21But of Israel he says, “All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and contrary people.”
Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.
why would He?
Jesus spoke the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus.
He said in it that if they don't believe the scriptures (Moses & the prophets), neither would they believe if someone rose from the dead (Jesus).
the New Testament gives us all the eyewitness accounts of all the miracles.
if someone doesn't believe the God-Breathed testimony about Jesus and their salvation - delivered by The Spirit Himself via the Bible, why would a secret message about 170 dollars appearing their bank account convince them of anything?
God isn't in the fortune-teller-unto-salvation business.
He established that the truth be given at the mouth of two witnesses.
Jesus said THREE bear witness of Him.
if the Bible and Gospel isn't enough, why do people continue the pretense of having saving faith?
answered above.
here's the short version:
1 Corinthians 1:21
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
people miraculously speaking in a known human language they didn't previously know was a sign for unbelievers (jews).
prophecy was for believers - they were in the church already and receiving New Covenant doctrine, the essentials of the faith delivered once for all.
if people don't believe the Bible is sufficient, they don't have faith.
they don't believe God's Testimony revealed in Scripture, and they don't know the True working and Commission of the Holy Spirit.
none of that stuff is EVER about the gospel.
it's not of God.
those gifts ceased. just as Paul said they would.
History bears this out.
so the onus is on you to show WHY they came back. Paul said nothing about them coming back after they ceased.
He never said He would pour out His Spirit at any time other than Pentecost.
what you don't understand is what he meant by "And in the last days it shall be, God declares"
He emant the same thing He always meant when prophecies given to Israel were spoken about (Joel - And in the last days it shall be, God declares)...was fulfilled in the last days of the Old Covenant...Peter made that clear.
read about it here:
Acts 2
The Coming of the Holy Spirit
1When the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place. 2And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. 3And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and resteda on each one of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. 6And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language. 7And they were amazed and astonished, saying, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? 8And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? 9Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, 11both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians—we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.” 12And all were amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “What does this mean?” 13But others mocking said, “They are filled with new wine.”
Peter’s Sermon at Pentecost
14But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them: “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words. 15For these people are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day.b 16But this is what was uttered through the prophet Joel:
17 “‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares,
that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh,
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
and your young men shall see visions,
and your old men shall dream dreams;
18 even on my male servantsc and female servants
in those days I will pour out my Spirit, and they shall prophesy.
19 And I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,
blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke;
20 the sun shall be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood,
before the day of the Lord comes, the great and magnificent day.
21 And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.’
22“Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know— 23this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men. 24God raised him up, loosing the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it. 25For David says concerning him,
“‘I saw the Lord always before me,
for he is at my right hand that I may not be shaken;
26 therefore my heart was glad, and my tongue rejoiced;
my flesh also will dwell in hope.
27 For you will not abandon my soul to Hades,
or let your Holy One see corruption.
28 You have made known to me the paths of life;
you will make me full of gladness with your presence.’
29“Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne, 31he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. 32This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. 33Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing. 34For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says,
“‘The Lord said to my Lord,
Sit at my right hand,
35 until I make your enemies your footstool.’
36Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”
37Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” 40And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.” 41So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.
The Fellowship of the Believers
42And they devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. 43And awed came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles. 44And all who believed were together and had all things in common. 45And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need. 46And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts, 47praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.
He never said he would do that, and He said He doesn't do anything without revealing it to us first.
there's NOTHING written that says He'll do that.
just the opposite.
what's this " because of your own unbelief" junk?
clearly i have more faith than you do in what God said.
i don't need signs and miracles, and only the wicked and unbelieving insist on them.
no lost person needs miracles performed to convince them of anything.
most times it never even convinced those who saw Jesus Christ Himself perform them.
just preach the Gospel from the Bible.
that's what we are called to do.
so far i have yet to have any (none, not any, zero) real evidence provided.
its always anecdotes about unreached jungle tribes or such.
my question is....why did this movement begin in the nation which boasts the most bibles per capita than any other on earth.
and why did it begin in the 1800s, primarily the 1900s and full force in the 20th century.
why is it being spread by those who have bibles and supposedly know the Gospel?
it's entirely out of the norm throughout history.
no one but atheists deny the Providence of God working in everyone's life.
He can manouver someone into position to hear the Gospel.
this is and was always His Plan:
Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.
1 Corinthians 1:21
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
1 Corinthians 1:18
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
1 Corinthians 1:23
but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles
Romans 10:17
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.
Galatians 3:2
I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?
Hebrews 2:3
how shall we escape if we ignore so great a salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him.
Hebrews 4:2
For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed.
Acts 8:31
"How can I," he said, "unless someone explains it to me?" So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.
Ephesians 2:17
He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near.
Ephesians 4:21
when you heard about Christ and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus.
Titus 1:3
and which now at his appointed season he has brought to light through the preaching entrusted to me by the command of God our Savior
Colossians 1:6
In the same way, the gospel is bearing fruit and growing throughout the whole world--just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and truly understood God's grace.
Romans 10:14
How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?
Romans 10
17So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.
18But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have, for
“Their voice has gone out to all the earth,
and their words to the ends of the world.”
19But I ask, did Israel not understand? First Moses says,
“I will make you jealous of those who are not a nation;
with a foolish nation I will make you angry.”
20Then Isaiah is so bold as to say,
“I have been found by those who did not seek me;
I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me.”
21But of Israel he says, “All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and contrary people.”
Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.
why would He?
Jesus spoke the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus.
He said in it that if they don't believe the scriptures (Moses & the prophets), neither would they believe if someone rose from the dead (Jesus).
the New Testament gives us all the eyewitness accounts of all the miracles.
if someone doesn't believe the God-Breathed testimony about Jesus and their salvation - delivered by The Spirit Himself via the Bible, why would a secret message about 170 dollars appearing their bank account convince them of anything?
God isn't in the fortune-teller-unto-salvation business.
He established that the truth be given at the mouth of two witnesses.
Jesus said THREE bear witness of Him.
if the Bible and Gospel isn't enough, why do people continue the pretense of having saving faith?
answered above.
here's the short version:
1 Corinthians 1:21
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
people miraculously speaking in a known human language they didn't previously know was a sign for unbelievers (jews).
prophecy was for believers - they were in the church already and receiving New Covenant doctrine, the essentials of the faith delivered once for all.
if people don't believe the Bible is sufficient, they don't have faith.
they don't believe God's Testimony revealed in Scripture, and they don't know the True working and Commission of the Holy Spirit.
none of that stuff is EVER about the gospel.
it's not of God.
those gifts ceased. just as Paul said they would.
History bears this out.
so the onus is on you to show WHY they came back. Paul said nothing about them coming back after they ceased.
He never said He would pour out His Spirit at any time other than Pentecost.
what you don't understand is what he meant by "And in the last days it shall be, God declares"
He emant the same thing He always meant when prophecies given to Israel were spoken about (Joel - And in the last days it shall be, God declares)...was fulfilled in the last days of the Old Covenant...Peter made that clear.
read about it here:
Acts 2
The Coming of the Holy Spirit
1When the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place. 2And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. 3And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and resteda on each one of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. 6And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language. 7And they were amazed and astonished, saying, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? 8And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? 9Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, 11both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians—we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.” 12And all were amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “What does this mean?” 13But others mocking said, “They are filled with new wine.”
Peter’s Sermon at Pentecost
14But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them: “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words. 15For these people are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day.b 16But this is what was uttered through the prophet Joel:
17 “‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares,
that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh,
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
and your young men shall see visions,
and your old men shall dream dreams;
18 even on my male servantsc and female servants
in those days I will pour out my Spirit, and they shall prophesy.
19 And I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,
blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke;
20 the sun shall be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood,
before the day of the Lord comes, the great and magnificent day.
21 And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.’
22“Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know— 23this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men. 24God raised him up, loosing the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it. 25For David says concerning him,
“‘I saw the Lord always before me,
for he is at my right hand that I may not be shaken;
26 therefore my heart was glad, and my tongue rejoiced;
my flesh also will dwell in hope.
27 For you will not abandon my soul to Hades,
or let your Holy One see corruption.
28 You have made known to me the paths of life;
you will make me full of gladness with your presence.’
29“Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne, 31he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. 32This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. 33Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing. 34For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says,
“‘The Lord said to my Lord,
Sit at my right hand,
35 until I make your enemies your footstool.’
36Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”
37Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” 40And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.” 41So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.
The Fellowship of the Believers
42And they devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. 43And awed came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles. 44And all who believed were together and had all things in common. 45And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need. 46And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts, 47praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.
He never said he would do that, and He said He doesn't do anything without revealing it to us first.
there's NOTHING written that says He'll do that.
just the opposite.
what's this " because of your own unbelief" junk?
clearly i have more faith than you do in what God said.
i don't need signs and miracles, and only the wicked and unbelieving insist on them.
no lost person needs miracles performed to convince them of anything.
most times it never even convinced those who saw Jesus Christ Himself perform them.
just preach the Gospel from the Bible.
that's what we are called to do.
D
Zone, I still don't have a grasp of what you are saying. I have never made the bible about me. The bible is about Jesus, from cover to cover. I want to understand your point and by me asking you for clarification is sincere. Can you give me an example of how one "inserts themselves into the book of Acts"?
G
Joh_6:30
They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
Mat_16:4
A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.
Mat_13:58
And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
Thurman Scrivner on Sid Roth - YouTube[/QUOTE]
And, you claim these people have no idea what they are talking about, and, you claim the thousands and thousands of people who have had the Holy Spirit operate THROUGH THEM as nothing more than 'something else' as you put it, ohzone.
The Lord leads 
huh?
no...Paul said a ton of stuff earlier....THOSE are the things that are spiritually discerned.
the tongues (languages) at Pentecost didn't need born again believers - it was a sign for unbelievers.
and it was the Gospel - the Wonderful Works of God they heard.
not oogatomoogashumallllaaaamagga.
they didn't HAVE THE FULL BIBLE YET. don't you know that?
why did you leave off all this?
1 Corinthians 1
Christ Crucified Is God’s Power and Wisdom
18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”
20Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.
26Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29so that no one may boast before him. 30It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31Therefore, as it is written: “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.”
1And so it was with me, brothers and sisters. When I came to you, I did not come with eloquence or human wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God.a 2For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 3I came to you in weakness with great fear and trembling. 4My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, 5so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power.
God’s Wisdom Revealed by the Spirit
6We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 8None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9However, as it is written:
“What no eye has seen,
what no ear has heard,
and what no human mind has conceived”b —
the things God has prepared for those who love him—
10these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.c 14The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 15The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, 16for,
“Who has known the mind of the Lord
so as to instruct him?”d
But we have the mind of Christ.
...
What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.c 14The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
Paul and the others were receiving NEW revelation - mysteries.
they are now recorded.
Bible.
no...Paul said a ton of stuff earlier....THOSE are the things that are spiritually discerned.
the tongues (languages) at Pentecost didn't need born again believers - it was a sign for unbelievers.
and it was the Gospel - the Wonderful Works of God they heard.
not oogatomoogashumallllaaaamagga.
they didn't HAVE THE FULL BIBLE YET. don't you know that?
why did you leave off all this?
1 Corinthians 1
Christ Crucified Is God’s Power and Wisdom
18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”
20Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.
26Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29so that no one may boast before him. 30It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31Therefore, as it is written: “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.”
1And so it was with me, brothers and sisters. When I came to you, I did not come with eloquence or human wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God.a 2For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 3I came to you in weakness with great fear and trembling. 4My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, 5so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power.
God’s Wisdom Revealed by the Spirit
6We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 8None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9However, as it is written:
“What no eye has seen,
what no ear has heard,
and what no human mind has conceived”b —
the things God has prepared for those who love him—
10these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.c 14The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 15The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, 16for,
“Who has known the mind of the Lord
so as to instruct him?”d
But we have the mind of Christ.
...
What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.c 14The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
Paul and the others were receiving NEW revelation - mysteries.
they are now recorded.
Bible.
I agree with all the above verses. There is no doubt that one must be born again!
However, where in the above verses does it say that we must be "baptised with the Holy Spirit?"
An individual is born again when they seek God, believe, repent and are baptized for the forgiveness of their sins as Peter mentioned in Acts 2:38. That's when they receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
They are baptized in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Nowhere did Peter tell us that we would be "baptized with the Holy Spirit." He said that we would receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Let us not confuse the "baptism of the Holy Spirit" with the two incidents below (the b/m incidents never mention the "baptism of the Holy Spirit":
Acts 10: As Peter preached, the Holy Spirit descended on Cornelius and his household
Acts 19: Paul laid his hands on new converts and the Holy Spirit came upon them
I will elaborate on the above two incidents when I have the time.
However, where in the above verses does it say that we must be "baptised with the Holy Spirit?"
An individual is born again when they seek God, believe, repent and are baptized for the forgiveness of their sins as Peter mentioned in Acts 2:38. That's when they receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
They are baptized in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Nowhere did Peter tell us that we would be "baptized with the Holy Spirit." He said that we would receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Let us not confuse the "baptism of the Holy Spirit" with the two incidents below (the b/m incidents never mention the "baptism of the Holy Spirit":
Acts 10: As Peter preached, the Holy Spirit descended on Cornelius and his household
Acts 19: Paul laid his hands on new converts and the Holy Spirit came upon them
I will elaborate on the above two incidents when I have the time.
Beyond a shadow of doubt: All 3 are one. I have never disputed this fact. I appreciate the egg illustration. Makes a lot of sense.
However, nothing mentioned in the subject verses (Mt 28:19) indicates that Jesus commissioned his disciples to "Baptize with the Holy Spirit" Jesus never used this phrase.
However, nothing mentioned in the subject verses (Mt 28:19) indicates that Jesus commissioned his disciples to "Baptize with the Holy Spirit" Jesus never used this phrase.
A
Nice post reminds me of Jesus saying to a crowd...you came for the fish and the bread.
Not much luck with signs and wonders in the wilderness..how many went into the promised land?
Who yelled crucify Him?
Faith doesnt need that. And faith does not have to see or receive the promise. God is pleased
with faith so much He gives trials instead of proof.
G
I don't know why someone would need $170 but God works in His mysterious ways, ohzone, EVERY ONE's testimony Is ”God-breathed,” just as you say, and, see I don't disagree with everything you say, just 99.9% of it. JK, we BOTH believe in the good news and consuming fire He is on OUR life, that's a lot of 'it,' right there, try ALL of it, actually. Well, 99.9%, anyway, milady
)()()() )()()()()()
But, unclefes, even though our confession of Christ with our mouth, and, belief of Him with our heart SEALS us in Him, there's more God wants, our God-breathed testimony, what His power unto our salvation did for us; what does God want next, after we believe on Him into our heart (accept?) ?
God wants us to USE that power to further His what, what He died to bring us new life of
Huhsaywhatgree km. nn? ? ? N? ? Nn? N? ? ? N? ? Nn? N? ? N? N? Nn? ? ? ? Nn
)()()() )()()()()()
But, unclefes, even though our confession of Christ with our mouth, and, belief of Him with our heart SEALS us in Him, there's more God wants, our God-breathed testimony, what His power unto our salvation did for us; what does God want next, after we believe on Him into our heart (accept?) ?
God wants us to USE that power to further His what, what He died to bring us new life of
Huhsaywhatgree km. nn? ? ? N? ? Nn? N? ? ? N? ? Nn? N? ? N? N? Nn? ? ? ? Nn
G
I don't know why someone would need $170 but God works in His mysterious ways, ohzone, EVERY ONE's testimony Is ”God-breathed,” just as you say, and, see I don't disagree with everything you say, just 99.9% of it. JK, we BOTH believe in the good news and consuming fire He is on OUR life, that's a lot of 'it,' right there, try ALL of it, actually. Well, 99.9%, anyway, milady
)()()() )()()()()()
But, unclefes, even though our confession of Christ with our mouth, and, belief of Him with our heart SEALS us in Him, there's more God wants, our God-breathed testimony, what His power unto our salvation did for us; what does God want next, after we believe on Him into our heart (accept?) ?
God wants us to USE that power to further His what, what He died to bring us new life of
Huhsaywhatgree nn? ? ? N? ? Nn? N? ? ? N? ? Nn? N? ? N? N? Nn? ? ? ? Nn
)()()() )()()()()()
But, unclefes, even though our confession of Christ with our mouth, and, belief of Him with our heart SEALS us in Him, there's more God wants, our God-breathed testimony, what His power unto our salvation did for us; what does God want next, after we believe on Him into our heart (accept?) ?
God wants us to USE that power to further His what, what He died to bring us new life of
Huhsaywhatgree nn? ? ? N? ? Nn? N? ? ? N? ? Nn? N? ? N? N? Nn? ? ? ? Nn
Anyone want to go to 2 Timothy 2:20 and read these verses of power, of the SAME power of the Scripture that resolutely and unequivocally made miracles at Pentecost NOT be The End !!! but THE BEGINNING OF POWER that was FIRST prophesied by Joel prophet of God back in Joel , 2:28 start. Then, here ww are in Acts, a historical.book.that is the begiNning of is the beginning of the church Age with 2:38 acts
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