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I have never been given a gift of another tongue or language nor prophecy of any kind outside of speaking forth the word in season and out of season. I have never had the desire for either, but if it was needed and God wanted to use me utilizing either of them, I hope I would be available by faith and not resist the Spirit. There is no additional revelation to be added to the inspiration of God's complete canon nor any additional prophecy the scriptures have not already covered in that inspired canon, but there are details in the plan of God that the Spirit can reveal to the mind and heart of man and appointed time when a national tongue or language would be needed to communicate to those who are being drawn by God to the cross and a saving knowledge of Christ. Are you open to these things if God permits or are you in a place that you would reject God's leading and cast it down as not being from God?
U
Hi Coconut
I have to ask in kind. Why is the premise of your question (am I open to tongues being a possibility today ) predicated upon "my willingness or openness" ? My short answer to you would be that I am open to anything that God would have me do on His behalf and for His glory. But that answer would be remiss if it didn't address as well what God's Perfect and Complete Written Word to us has declared. These things were written for our sake in order that we might believe on Jesus Christ. If they were ours to see and behold for the asking (and/or dependent upon our own openness), what would be the need as God saw fit to divinely inspire such writings (the bible) in the first place ? Which would you trust more ? Your experiences ... or God's Word ? Because in the final analysis, we are told that the lying signs and wonders of the last days will be so great that they would deceive even God's elect, if that were possible. Hardly a matter unworthy of our full and undivided attention. Tongues served the purpose for which God intended them (to the unbelieving Jews). Having said that, I am no less "open" to them than I am to God leading us all thru the night by a pillar of fire. But I don't look for things or signs from my Father whose plan and purpose was served by their divinely guided and timely intended occurrence's. The question isn't or shouldn't be "Am I open ?". The subject matter was and is ... "Do biblical tongues occur today ?". I apologize if I come across as obtuse regarding this subject. It's not my intention whatsoever. But this remains a doctrinal matter (and always shall, it appears) for which there is only one correct answer. The miracles performed by the apostles served to validate their gospel message. Should we be scrutinizing any less on the matter of tongues whose purpose was served for the unbelievers of that day ? Because that is exactly what they were. A sign for the unbelievers. Do I believe that God can and sometimes does intervene in our lives when He see's fit ? Absolutely yes. There is no limit to what our God can do. And His great love and mercy is everlasting. My faith and trust in this truth in Jesus Christ ...... there is nothing better than this that I could receive or ask of Him. Hi Coconut
I have to ask in kind. Why is the premise of your question (am I open to tongues being a possibility today ) predicated upon "my willingness or openness" ? My short answer to you would be that I am open to anything that God would have me do on His behalf and for His glory. But that answer would be remiss if it didn't address as well what God's Perfect and Complete Written Word to us has declared. These things were written for our sake in order that we might believe on Jesus Christ. If they were ours to see and behold for the asking (and/or dependent upon our own openness), what would be the need as God saw fit to divinely inspire such writings (the bible) in the first place ? Which would you trust more ? Your experiences ... or God's Word ? Because in the final analysis, we are told that the lying signs and wonders of the last days will be so great that they would deceive even God's elect, if that were possible. Hardly a matter unworthy of our full and undivided attention. Tongues served the purpose for which God intended them (to the unbelieving Jews). Having said that, I am no less "open" to them than I am to God leading us all thru the night by a pillar of fire. But I don't look for things or signs from my Father whose plan and purpose was served by their divinely guided and timely intended occurrence's. The question isn't or shouldn't be "Am I open ?". The subject matter was and is ... "Do biblical tongues occur today ?". I apologize if I come across as obtuse regarding this subject. It's not my intention whatsoever. But this remains a doctrinal matter (and always shall, it appears) for which there is only one correct answer. The miracles performed by the apostles served to validate their gospel message. Should we be scrutinizing any less on the matter of tongues whose purpose was served for the unbelievers of that day ? Because that is exactly what they were. A sign for the unbelievers. Do I believe that God can and sometimes does intervene in our lives when He see's fit ? Absolutely yes. There is no limit to what our God can do. And His great love and mercy is everlasting. My faith and trust in this truth in Jesus Christ ...... there is nothing better than this that I could receive or ask of Him. Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
2 Timothy 3
All Scripture Is Breathed Out by God
10You, however, have followed my teaching, my conduct, my aim in life, my faith, my patience, my love, my steadfastness, 11my persecutions and sufferings that happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, and at Lystra—which persecutions I endured; yet from them all the Lord rescued me. 12Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, 13while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whoma you learned it 15and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17that the man of Godb may be competent, equipped for every good work.
U
Serving, Mercy, Generosity, Teaching, Preaching, Wisdom, Knowledge, Encouragement, Faith, Discernment ... this Life ..... along with the Love and Grace of God given us in Christ Jesus without Whom we are and can do nothing. And many many more I'm certain. The purpose of any and all are to lead us to love and trust our God with all our hearts ... and to love our neighbour as ourselves.
J
The gifts were given to demonstrate first that Jesus was the Son of God. They were given to the apostles (baptism of the Spirit) on Pentecost to guide them into all the truth (John 16:13 context, the promise was to the apostles) and they were used by the apostles to prove that they were from God. Members received the gifts by the laying on of the apostles hands (Acts 8:15-19). The New Testament was not written yet and by leaving gifts with the brethren they had those who could teach the word (gift of knowledge, etc.) I have spoken with many in my life time who claim they have the gift of knowledge but do not even know the answer to basic scriptural questions. The gifts "in part" were until "that (not he) which is complete has come. Then that which is in part shall be done away." I Cor. 13:8-10. If the word of God is complete what can anyone add to it?
G
Yep
And, IF you read Scripture, God doesn't tell.us ww will know of gifts operating through us, we might THINK we do but, truly, whether we do know or not shoyld be very low on your wanna-know totem pole. What matters is just being bold and using His Spirit , letting Him use you, I should say, our being a pure vessel, that God can empower and enliven and dare I say make DRUNK in a way that we will go.up.to.people and ask.them if they had a,good day, and, then, its best, with most, to ASK.before you give them a hug. But girls can give hugs to girls and guys to other guys and that is the SIMPLE way, not no.drawn out grand revelation, just the simple work of the Holy Spirit emboldening you to.serve Him
And, IF you read Scripture, God doesn't tell.us ww will know of gifts operating through us, we might THINK we do but, truly, whether we do know or not shoyld be very low on your wanna-know totem pole. What matters is just being bold and using His Spirit , letting Him use you, I should say, our being a pure vessel, that God can empower and enliven and dare I say make DRUNK in a way that we will go.up.to.people and ask.them if they had a,good day, and, then, its best, with most, to ASK.before you give them a hug. But girls can give hugs to girls and guys to other guys and that is the SIMPLE way, not no.drawn out grand revelation, just the simple work of the Holy Spirit emboldening you to.serve Him
2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
Many today indeed assume the form of religion while denying God's power. He does not change, nor do His children.
2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
Many today indeed assume the form of religion while denying God's power. He does not change, nor do His children.
Homewardbound,
One cannot just pick up any verse in order to prove one's point.
SCRIPTURE MUST BE EXAMINED CAREFULLY IN THE LIGHT OF ITS CONTEXT!!!
If we use scripture out of context, we miss the REASON (PURPOSE) why God has put a particular verse in the Bible, (and why he has excluded millions of other verses).
Too many Christians pick and choose any verse that has their desired KEYWORD and begin to prove their point.
This is the reason we have LONG THREADS.
This is also the exact reason we have so many different DOCTRINES and DENOMINATIONS.
Sorry brother, we are getting nowhere with this discussion. However, I'm glad that Christ binds us together. I'll try to stay on this thread as much as possible
One cannot just pick up any verse in order to prove one's point.
SCRIPTURE MUST BE EXAMINED CAREFULLY IN THE LIGHT OF ITS CONTEXT!!!
If we use scripture out of context, we miss the REASON (PURPOSE) why God has put a particular verse in the Bible, (and why he has excluded millions of other verses).
Too many Christians pick and choose any verse that has their desired KEYWORD and begin to prove their point.
This is the reason we have LONG THREADS.
This is also the exact reason we have so many different DOCTRINES and DENOMINATIONS.
Sorry brother, we are getting nowhere with this discussion. However, I'm glad that Christ binds us together. I'll try to stay on this thread as much as possible
Unclefester, Zone or anyone else, tell me which of these gifts mentioned in the following passages of inspired scripture have ceased or been done away with by the Spirit and which have remained for the church and body of Christ. You won't have to mention the scripture, I will, and you can simply comment on them as you desire. Tell me out of the scriptures below which gifts has the Spirit continued to bestow on the members of Christ's body and which of those has the Spirit done away with. This is part of the whole counsel of God for our understanding, our learning and for our instruction in righteousness. You have (2) apostles making inspired comments on the gifts and at least (2) churches are involved. These letters were also distributed to other churches. Also provide information as to when these gifts were done away with and what, if anything, was given by the Spirit to substitute or take their place so that the body would lack in nothing. Here they are. I already concede that the canon was that which is 'perfect' is come in 1Corinthians 13:8-13.
Romans 12:3-8 [SUP]3 [/SUP]For by the grace (unmerited favor of God) given to me I warn everyone among you not to estimate and think of himself more highly than he ought [not to have an exaggerated opinion of his own importance], but to rate his ability with sober judgment, each according to the degree of faith apportioned by God to him.[SUP]4 [/SUP]For as in one physical body we have many parts (organs, members) and all of these parts do not have the same function or use,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]So we, numerous as we are, are one body in Christ (the Messiah) and individually we are parts one of another [mutually dependent on one another].
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Having gifts (faculties, talents, qualities) that differ according to the grace given us, let us use them: [He whose gift is] prophecy, [let him prophesy] according to the proportion of his faith;
[SUP]7 [/SUP][He whose gift is] practical service, let him give himself to serving; he who teaches, to his teaching;
[SUP]8 [/SUP]He who exhorts (encourages), to his exhortation; he who contributes, let him do it in simplicity and liberality; he who gives aid and superintends, with zeal and singleness of mind; he who does acts of mercy, with genuine cheerfulness and joyful eagerness.
1Corinthians 12:4-13 [SUP]4 [/SUP]Now there are distinctive varieties and distributions of endowments (gifts,extraordinary powers distinguishing certain Christians, due to the power of divine grace operating in their souls by the Holy Spirit) and they vary, but the [Holy] Spirit remains the same.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And there are distinctive varieties of service and ministration, but it is the same Lord [Who is served].
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And there are distinctive varieties of operation [of working to accomplish things], but it is the same God Who inspires and energizes them all in all.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But to each one is given the manifestation of the [Holy] Spirit [the evidence, the spiritual illumination of the Spirit] for good and profit.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]To one is given in and through the [Holy] Spirit [the power to speak] a message of wisdom, and to another [the power to express] a word of knowledge and understanding according to the same [Holy] Spirit;
[SUP]9 [/SUP]To another [wonder-working] faith by the same [Holy] Spirit, to another the extraordinary powers of healing by the one Spirit;
[SUP]10 [/SUP]To another the working of miracles, to another prophetic insight (the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose); to another the ability to discern and distinguish between [the utterances of true] spirits [and false ones], to another various kinds of [unknown] tongues, to another the ability to interpret [such] tongues.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]All these [gifts, achievements, abilities] are inspired and brought to pass by one and the same [Holy] Spirit, Who apportions to each person individually [exactly] as He chooses.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For just as the body is a unity and yet has many parts, and all the parts, though many, form [only] one body, so it is with Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One).
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For by [means of the personal agency of] one [Holy] Spirit we were all, whether Jews or Greeks, slaves or free, baptized [and by baptism united together] into one body, and all made to drink of one [Holy] Spirit.
Ephesians 4:8-14 [SUP]8 [/SUP]Therefore it is said, When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive [He led a train of vanquished foes] and He bestowed gifts on men.
[SUP]9 [/SUP][But He ascended?] Now what can this, He ascended, mean but that He had previously descended from [the heights of] heaven into [the depths], the lower parts of the earth?
[SUP]10 [/SUP]He Who descended is the [very] same as He Who also has ascended high above all the heavens, that He [His presence] might fill all things (the whole universe, from the lowest to the highest).
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And His gifts were [varied; He Himself appointed and gave men to us] some to be apostles (special messengers), some prophets (inspired preachers and expounders), some evangelists (preachers of the Gospel, traveling missionaries), some pastors (shepherds of His flock) and teachers.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]His intention was the perfecting and the full equipping of the saints (His consecrated people), [that they should do] the work of ministering toward building up Christ’s body (the church),
[SUP]13 [/SUP][That it might develop] until we all attain oneness in the faith and in the comprehension of the [full and accurate] knowledge of the Son of God, that [we might arrive] at really mature manhood (the completeness of personality which is nothing less than the standard height of Christ’s own perfection), the measure of the stature of the fullness of the Christ and the completeness found in Him.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]So then, we may no longer be children, tossed [like ships] to and fro between chance gusts of teaching and wavering with every changing wind of doctrine, [the prey of] the cunning and cleverness of unscrupulous men, [gamblers engaged] in every shifting form of trickery in inventing errors to mislead.
1Peter 4:10,11 [SUP]10 [/SUP]As each of you has received a gift (charisma - a particular spiritual talent, a gracious divine endowment), employ it for one another as [befits] good trustees of God’s many-sided grace [faithful stewards of the extremely diverse powers and gifts granted to Christians by unmerited favor].
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Whoever speaks, [let him do it as one who utters] oracles of God; whoever renders service, [let him do it] as with the strength which God furnishesabundantly, so that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ (the Messiah). To Him be the glory and dominion forever and ever (through endless ages). Amen (so be it).
When you are all done with this, if you have the time or the energy provided by God to quicken your flesh, can you tell me what the gift or word of knowledge is, provided by the Spirit? I have heard all kinds of things, but do you really know what is it without relying on what some commentators have to say about it? You have the Spirit to witness the truth in you and not the spirit of error, so it should not be difficult even though you might have to dig deep. Has that gift also been done away with or does it have a function and purpose in the body of Christ?
Romans 12:3-8 [SUP]3 [/SUP]For by the grace (unmerited favor of God) given to me I warn everyone among you not to estimate and think of himself more highly than he ought [not to have an exaggerated opinion of his own importance], but to rate his ability with sober judgment, each according to the degree of faith apportioned by God to him.[SUP]4 [/SUP]For as in one physical body we have many parts (organs, members) and all of these parts do not have the same function or use,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]So we, numerous as we are, are one body in Christ (the Messiah) and individually we are parts one of another [mutually dependent on one another].
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Having gifts (faculties, talents, qualities) that differ according to the grace given us, let us use them: [He whose gift is] prophecy, [let him prophesy] according to the proportion of his faith;
[SUP]7 [/SUP][He whose gift is] practical service, let him give himself to serving; he who teaches, to his teaching;
[SUP]8 [/SUP]He who exhorts (encourages), to his exhortation; he who contributes, let him do it in simplicity and liberality; he who gives aid and superintends, with zeal and singleness of mind; he who does acts of mercy, with genuine cheerfulness and joyful eagerness.
1Corinthians 12:4-13 [SUP]4 [/SUP]Now there are distinctive varieties and distributions of endowments (gifts,extraordinary powers distinguishing certain Christians, due to the power of divine grace operating in their souls by the Holy Spirit) and they vary, but the [Holy] Spirit remains the same.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And there are distinctive varieties of service and ministration, but it is the same Lord [Who is served].
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And there are distinctive varieties of operation [of working to accomplish things], but it is the same God Who inspires and energizes them all in all.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But to each one is given the manifestation of the [Holy] Spirit [the evidence, the spiritual illumination of the Spirit] for good and profit.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]To one is given in and through the [Holy] Spirit [the power to speak] a message of wisdom, and to another [the power to express] a word of knowledge and understanding according to the same [Holy] Spirit;
[SUP]9 [/SUP]To another [wonder-working] faith by the same [Holy] Spirit, to another the extraordinary powers of healing by the one Spirit;
[SUP]10 [/SUP]To another the working of miracles, to another prophetic insight (the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose); to another the ability to discern and distinguish between [the utterances of true] spirits [and false ones], to another various kinds of [unknown] tongues, to another the ability to interpret [such] tongues.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]All these [gifts, achievements, abilities] are inspired and brought to pass by one and the same [Holy] Spirit, Who apportions to each person individually [exactly] as He chooses.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For just as the body is a unity and yet has many parts, and all the parts, though many, form [only] one body, so it is with Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One).
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For by [means of the personal agency of] one [Holy] Spirit we were all, whether Jews or Greeks, slaves or free, baptized [and by baptism united together] into one body, and all made to drink of one [Holy] Spirit.
Ephesians 4:8-14 [SUP]8 [/SUP]Therefore it is said, When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive [He led a train of vanquished foes] and He bestowed gifts on men.
[SUP]9 [/SUP][But He ascended?] Now what can this, He ascended, mean but that He had previously descended from [the heights of] heaven into [the depths], the lower parts of the earth?
[SUP]10 [/SUP]He Who descended is the [very] same as He Who also has ascended high above all the heavens, that He [His presence] might fill all things (the whole universe, from the lowest to the highest).
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And His gifts were [varied; He Himself appointed and gave men to us] some to be apostles (special messengers), some prophets (inspired preachers and expounders), some evangelists (preachers of the Gospel, traveling missionaries), some pastors (shepherds of His flock) and teachers.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]His intention was the perfecting and the full equipping of the saints (His consecrated people), [that they should do] the work of ministering toward building up Christ’s body (the church),
[SUP]13 [/SUP][That it might develop] until we all attain oneness in the faith and in the comprehension of the [full and accurate] knowledge of the Son of God, that [we might arrive] at really mature manhood (the completeness of personality which is nothing less than the standard height of Christ’s own perfection), the measure of the stature of the fullness of the Christ and the completeness found in Him.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]So then, we may no longer be children, tossed [like ships] to and fro between chance gusts of teaching and wavering with every changing wind of doctrine, [the prey of] the cunning and cleverness of unscrupulous men, [gamblers engaged] in every shifting form of trickery in inventing errors to mislead.
1Peter 4:10,11 [SUP]10 [/SUP]As each of you has received a gift (charisma - a particular spiritual talent, a gracious divine endowment), employ it for one another as [befits] good trustees of God’s many-sided grace [faithful stewards of the extremely diverse powers and gifts granted to Christians by unmerited favor].
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Whoever speaks, [let him do it as one who utters] oracles of God; whoever renders service, [let him do it] as with the strength which God furnishesabundantly, so that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ (the Messiah). To Him be the glory and dominion forever and ever (through endless ages). Amen (so be it).
When you are all done with this, if you have the time or the energy provided by God to quicken your flesh, can you tell me what the gift or word of knowledge is, provided by the Spirit? I have heard all kinds of things, but do you really know what is it without relying on what some commentators have to say about it? You have the Spirit to witness the truth in you and not the spirit of error, so it should not be difficult even though you might have to dig deep. Has that gift also been done away with or does it have a function and purpose in the body of Christ?
Was the following a gift of knowledge or prophetic utterance on what would befall Paul if he went to Jerusalem or just some lame statement made by an old man named Agabus being a prophet from Judea in Acts 21:10-12.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]While we were remaining there for some time, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And coming to [see] us, he took Paul’s belt and with it bound his own feet and hands and said, Thus says the Holy Spirit: The Jews at Jerusalem shall bind like this the man who owns this belt, and they shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles (heathen).
[SUP]12 [/SUP]When we heard this, both we and the residents of that place pleaded with him not to go up to Jerusalem.
This man Agabus did not miss the mark in Acts 11:28 so he must have been for real, having the Spirit. Neither instance had anything to do with some divine revelation of the word but something that was forth coming and given as a warning. Was he just some left over prophet that God did not need anymore? Here is a man that was probably one of those unknown disciples of Christ and was used by God to send a message or possible word of knowledge to the great apostle Paul, who, in my opinion, was possibly making a mistake in going to Jerusalem at that time, for the disciples also had warned him in Acts 21:4, even though the Lord did use him in that circumstance in Acts 23. This is all New Testament stuff that we are dealing with and it has nothing to do with the formation of the canon, but the Spirit made sure it got into the canon. So, what should we learn from this or should we toss it out because it does not apply to the church and body of Christ that we are a part of in these days.
If a visitor came to your local assembly and the pastor got discernment and a word of knowledge that this person was going to put themselves in harm's way and included some undeniable specifics to go along with it, and pulled that visitor aside, not to embarrass them but to communicate with them and hopefully prevent them from what could befall them, would you judge that as not being from God because your understanding of the scriptures prevents you from doing so?
[SUP]10 [/SUP]While we were remaining there for some time, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And coming to [see] us, he took Paul’s belt and with it bound his own feet and hands and said, Thus says the Holy Spirit: The Jews at Jerusalem shall bind like this the man who owns this belt, and they shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles (heathen).
[SUP]12 [/SUP]When we heard this, both we and the residents of that place pleaded with him not to go up to Jerusalem.
This man Agabus did not miss the mark in Acts 11:28 so he must have been for real, having the Spirit. Neither instance had anything to do with some divine revelation of the word but something that was forth coming and given as a warning. Was he just some left over prophet that God did not need anymore? Here is a man that was probably one of those unknown disciples of Christ and was used by God to send a message or possible word of knowledge to the great apostle Paul, who, in my opinion, was possibly making a mistake in going to Jerusalem at that time, for the disciples also had warned him in Acts 21:4, even though the Lord did use him in that circumstance in Acts 23. This is all New Testament stuff that we are dealing with and it has nothing to do with the formation of the canon, but the Spirit made sure it got into the canon. So, what should we learn from this or should we toss it out because it does not apply to the church and body of Christ that we are a part of in these days.
If a visitor came to your local assembly and the pastor got discernment and a word of knowledge that this person was going to put themselves in harm's way and included some undeniable specifics to go along with it, and pulled that visitor aside, not to embarrass them but to communicate with them and hopefully prevent them from what could befall them, would you judge that as not being from God because your understanding of the scriptures prevents you from doing so?
W
Christian tradition maintains, that the Holy Spirit energized the Church, which waxed, from Pentecost c.30 AD, to the conversion of the pagan Roman empire to Christianity (= Rev 19), in the 4th century AD.
But today, after the Millennium, in the End Times (= Rev 20), Christianity is, according to Prophesy, waning, whilst world-wide global international cabals ("Gog & Magog") oppose the Church ("blessed city" = spiritual New Jerusalem).
So, if the Church waxed by the Holy Spirit from "God in heaven", then the same would wane, when "God in heaven" stopped transmitting Holy Spirit to the Church on earth. Meanwhile, anti-Christian Satanic forces (Rev 20:7-9) are being energized instead, by "un-Holy Spirit" (for want of worthier words).
All humans on earth are, seemingly, allowing themselves to be influenced by Supra-natural Spiritual signals, some to Christian culture, more to anti-Christian cults. Between them both, humans are fulfilling Apocalyptic Prophesy (Rev 1-20:8), as mankind marches towards Doomsday.
But today, after the Millennium, in the End Times (= Rev 20), Christianity is, according to Prophesy, waning, whilst world-wide global international cabals ("Gog & Magog") oppose the Church ("blessed city" = spiritual New Jerusalem).
So, if the Church waxed by the Holy Spirit from "God in heaven", then the same would wane, when "God in heaven" stopped transmitting Holy Spirit to the Church on earth. Meanwhile, anti-Christian Satanic forces (Rev 20:7-9) are being energized instead, by "un-Holy Spirit" (for want of worthier words).
All humans on earth are, seemingly, allowing themselves to be influenced by Supra-natural Spiritual signals, some to Christian culture, more to anti-Christian cults. Between them both, humans are fulfilling Apocalyptic Prophesy (Rev 1-20:8), as mankind marches towards Doomsday.
U
Coconut ... this was Zone's first response to this thread. And it is a view that I agree with entirely. Might this matter be better resolved if you yourself presented one example (I'm asking for only one) "gifted" miracle worker in existence today in lieu of your endless stream of hypothetical scenario's ? Show us one is all we ask. The same goes for one "gifted" with speaking in tongues. Again ... only one example is what I ask for. How hard can that be to produce ? An apostle today ? Name one. A prophet today ? Name one. A tongue-speaker today ? Show me one that is biblical and authentic. Were we not instructed to test these things ? I nor Zone have never disputed that our Father may or may not choose to do something supernatural on behalf of one of His beloved .... for His namesake, purpose and glory. But this is not what is being discussed here. The topic is certain and specific "gifts" that were granted chosen men by God for the very purpose of validation and the laying of the foundation of Christ's church. I'll wait for only one example of any of the above mentioned that you can produce. Thank you and God bless.
G
What's being added to Scripture when one uses the FAITH God gave them?
I don't get it?????
Why try to quench the Spirit who is TRYING (a 'faith' word) to USE you through one of the mentioned gifts in Romans 3 and 1 Cor. 12?
How does one want to NOT love? These 'gifts' from God won't be worth squat if we don't Love, which is His Love put into us and just gone going forth ACCEPTING (another 'faith' word) His will.in our life. Remember, we do have Christ's righteousness when we believe, which simply means we become right standing with God, because of our belief in God's grace given in the form of the 'power' of His Son's ressurection power
But, the reason that Scripture was written was not to end, do away with tongues used on unbelievers, prophesying used on believers
, no, no, NO!!!!!!!!!!!!
If one wants to take that tact, fine, but, GET IT right...
Scripture, in its known form of empirical (written in whole, for complete experience understanding, or, 'metaphysical,' as my buddy, Bacon, would say) understanding, a.k.a. the bible, showed THEM 4th centuryers (and everyone after them), His REAL truth, on paper ! yes, yes, yes, how one can do away with THINKING they know RIGHT way to 'get' prophesying, which was USED WRONGLY undoubtably before the 4th Century A.D. when the Bible was complete, OT and NT done, for THAT 'perfect' doing made speculation and what was THOUGHT to be right way to.prophesy, speak in tongues, DONE AWAY WITH.
Because of the bible, there was no.more need to THINK one was calling on God by naively calling on demon spirits to be good to you like God would be, and, REALLY, LOL, (I'm being dead-serious when I say 'LOL.), they are doing immoral, etc. 'stuff' and excusing their chosen ways because they THINK/can get away with their OWN definition of what prophesying means, what tongues means/is for doing.
What 'in part' could be done away with is SPECULATION and FALSE USAGE of God's great 'gifts.'
Look.at cococrazy's post on Romans verses for good understanding of the gifts then READ please more Scripture, like 1 Cor. 14 for WHAT REAL USES GOD INTENDED TONGUES AND PROPHESY for, and, other so-called questionable gifts are USED to. They are ALL in there and all to be used for edification and unferstanding the believer and also, in lesser sense, as He wills, helping unbelievers wonder-fully 'see' (another 'faith' word) $ee the richness of Him who can be their salvation, like ours, too
I don't get it?????
Why try to quench the Spirit who is TRYING (a 'faith' word) to USE you through one of the mentioned gifts in Romans 3 and 1 Cor. 12?
How does one want to NOT love? These 'gifts' from God won't be worth squat if we don't Love, which is His Love put into us and just gone going forth ACCEPTING (another 'faith' word) His will.in our life. Remember, we do have Christ's righteousness when we believe, which simply means we become right standing with God, because of our belief in God's grace given in the form of the 'power' of His Son's ressurection power
But, the reason that Scripture was written was not to end, do away with tongues used on unbelievers, prophesying used on believers
, no, no, NO!!!!!!!!!!!!
If one wants to take that tact, fine, but, GET IT right...
Scripture, in its known form of empirical (written in whole, for complete experience understanding, or, 'metaphysical,' as my buddy, Bacon, would say) understanding, a.k.a. the bible, showed THEM 4th centuryers (and everyone after them), His REAL truth, on paper !
yes, yes, yes, how one can do away with THINKING they know RIGHT way to 'get' prophesying, which was USED WRONGLY undoubtably before the 4th Century A.D. when the Bible was complete, OT and NT done, for THAT 'perfect' doing made speculation and what was THOUGHT to be right way to.prophesy, speak in tongues, DONE AWAY WITH.Because of the bible, there was no.more need to THINK one was calling on God by naively calling on demon spirits to be good to you like God would be, and, REALLY, LOL, (I'm being dead-serious when I say 'LOL.), they are doing immoral, etc. 'stuff' and excusing their chosen ways because they THINK/can get away with their OWN definition of what prophesying means, what tongues means/is for doing.
What 'in part' could be done away with is SPECULATION and FALSE USAGE of God's great 'gifts.'
Look.at cococrazy's post on Romans verses for good understanding of the gifts then READ please more Scripture, like 1 Cor. 14 for WHAT REAL USES GOD INTENDED TONGUES AND PROPHESY for, and, other so-called questionable gifts are USED to. They are ALL in there and all to be used for edification and unferstanding the believer and also, in lesser sense, as He wills, helping unbelievers wonder-fully 'see' (another 'faith' word) $ee the richness of Him who can be their salvation, like ours, too
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Yep
And, IF you read Scripture, God doesn't tell.us ww will know of gifts operating through us, we might THINK we do but, truly, whether we do know or not shoyld be very low on your wanna-know totem pole. What matters is just being bold and using His Spirit , letting Him use you, I should say, our being a pure vessel, that God can empower and enliven and dare I say make DRUNK in a way that we will go.up.to.people and ask.them if they had a,good day, and, then, its best, with most, to ASK.before you give them a hug. But girls can give hugs to girls and guys to other guys and that is the SIMPLE way, not no.drawn out grand revelation, just the simple work of the Holy Spirit emboldening you to.serve Him
And, IF you read Scripture, God doesn't tell.us ww will know of gifts operating through us, we might THINK we do but, truly, whether we do know or not shoyld be very low on your wanna-know totem pole. What matters is just being bold and using His Spirit , letting Him use you, I should say, our being a pure vessel, that God can empower and enliven and dare I say make DRUNK in a way that we will go.up.to.people and ask.them if they had a,good day, and, then, its best, with most, to ASK.before you give them a hug. But girls can give hugs to girls and guys to other guys and that is the SIMPLE way, not no.drawn out grand revelation, just the simple work of the Holy Spirit emboldening you to.serve Him
what are you on about?